UFC 140 - Jones vs. Machida - 10th Dec. Spoilers inside

DeVore

<minor pimp> I wrote my setanta blog about this this week: http://www.setanta.com/ie/Blogs/Tom-Murphy/ </minor pimp>

I even forgot that he told Rogan he knew Machida was out and it looks awfully like he dumped him to the left when he could have dumped him into Big John's arms... no class imho.


DeV.

horsemeat

DeVore wrote: »

<minor pimp> I wrote my setanta blog about this this week: http://www.setanta.com/ie/Blogs/Tom-Murphy/ </minor pimp>

I even forgot that he told Rogan he knew Machida was out and it looks awfully like he dumped him to the left when he could have dumped him into Big John's arms... no class imho.


DeV.

He's pure scum. Felt him go limp and still kept the choke on an extra few seconds. can't wait to see him get his head lashed off him. would love to see him jump up to heavyweight and get his comeuppance against a few lads who are more his size.lesnar would eat him for breakfast.

Mr. Loverman

horsemeat wrote: »

you really think a kick in the arm is going to break it??

I've seen arms break due to defending a kick.

MrStuffins

horsemeat wrote: »

He's pure scum.

Is fighter bashing still against the charter?

Felt him go limp and still kept the choke on an extra few seconds.

Yup. Did exactly what he was supposed to do, waited for the ref to finish the fight. It happens in every single finish.

If we started calling every fighter "scum" who waited til the ref finished the fight then every second fighter would fall into this category. Almost every TKO finish ends with an "extra" punch or 2.

can't wait to see him get his head lashed off him. would love to see him jump up to heavyweight and get his comeuppance against a few lads who are more his size.lesnar would eat him for breakfast.

There's nobody at 205 right now who will beat him IMO, I presume you agree as you mentioned him getting beaten up at HW. He'd be stupid to go up to 265 also. Why would be put himself at a massive disadvantage like that?

MrStuffins

Mr. Loverman wrote: »

I've seen arms break due to defending a kick.

empacher

Didn't chuck break franklin's arm with a kick.

Calling him scum is a bit far. Believe me if I ever have a fight i'm holding on to what ever choke/arm till I'm sure the ref acknowledged its over. last thing i want is my head smashed in cause i let up on a guillotine.




Am I the only that thinks Big John didn't realize machida was going to be so heavy and missed the grab?

MrStuffins

empacher wrote: »

Didn't chuck break franklin's arm with a kick.

empacher wrote: »

Am I the only that thinks Big John didn't realize machida was going to be so heavy and missed the grab?

Wow, actually now that you say that i've just watched it there in the GIF. J.McC definitely has a hold of him and misjudges it.

Even more proof (IMO) that there's a lot of hate for the sake of hate going around.

empacher

I'm not the biggest jones fan, mostly because his success comes at the failure of come of my favorite fighters.

In defense of Jon

But I can understand the choke being held too long. I ain't losing my world title for the ref not spotting it earlier.

In my opinion its big john is to blame for the fall.

Walking away without checking on him, what's Jones going to do that the ringside doctor won't.


Greg Jackson's comments are his own and not Jon's.

Cockyness/Confidence. Hey I would swagger around if I could beat anyone under 205 pounds in the world and just bought myself a new Bentley . Plus being knee deep in clunge whether he's married or not.

The man can finish fights.

In criticism of Jon

Machida showed his striking isn't perfect far from it.

Those spinning back kicks are starting to look like a waste of energy and could put him on his ass.

I wonder about his bottom game, can't seem to find any footage if it be it training or a fight.


I don't particularly like him, but I am starting to respect him.

MrStuffins

I'm not even a massive fan of Jones but i'll say again what i've said before, where there is great talent there will ALWAYS be haters!

People hate GSP, people hate Anderson Silva, people hate Jon Jones.......... and if you don't agree then you are a "nuthugger" or you "Listen to Joe Rogan too much " or some sh*t (God forbid you should actually have a subjective opinion).

It's like those on the Soccer forum who hate Robbie Keane just because well, they do. I saw one guy criticise Keane for celebrating goals. Pretty pathetic i'm sure you'll agree.

I like GSP but I can see where the "boring" tag comes from, But I think some tend to get a bit carried away with looking for something to beat someone with and they jump on any little thing, this time Jones "dropping" Machida and/or walking away. It's all a bit silly if you ask me.

DeVore

Just because people hate him because he's talented, doesn't mean the other criticisms of him aren't valid.

And the explanation of "go get some fans" is farcical to the point where I feel insulted Jackson thinks I'll buy it.


DeV.

MrStuffins

DeVore wrote: »

Just because people hate him because he's talented, doesn't mean the other criticisms of him aren't valid.

I didn't say the other criticisms aren't valid. But a lot of them are certainly exagerrated because of who he is. As i've said already, he gets death for choking until the ref stops the fight and he gets death for not "checking" on Lyoto (as if he thought Lyoto's life was in danger or something).

But no criticism for Frank Mir for breaking the arm of Nog and not checking on him.

And it's good that you acknowledge that there is a lot of hate directed at him because he's talented. You have to agree THAT part is pretty sad!

Another thing, do you accept, reject or find possible the idea that John McCarthy had or thought he had a hold of Machida when Jones let him go? Having looked at the fight again or even the GIF above?

And the explanation of "go get some fans" is farcical to the point where I feel insulted Jackson thinks I'll buy it.


DeV.

Greg Jackson's behaviour is a different topic, perhaps a different thread. I'm talking about Jon Jones.

cowzerp

horsemeat wrote: »

you really think a kick in the arm is going to break it??
sure it'd hurt and would make him think twice again but saying it'd end the fight is a tad optimistic.

also once you get into his range he'd just spring up and lash you.

If arm is planted its arm v your leg and body weight with speed-high chance of damage-of course it might not work but it's worth a try.

riffmongous wrote: »

If the arm is planted I'm sure a kick would do serious damage alright...

Well said

Ush1

Didn't Cung Le break Frank Shamrocks arm with a kick?

Fall_Guy

MrStuffins wrote: »

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Wow, actually now that you say that i've just watched it there in the GIF. J.McC definitely has a hold of him and misjudges it.

Even more proof (IMO) that there's a lot of hate for the sake of hate going around.

To me it looks a lot more like McCarthy put his arms out to grab him and MISSED him. That say to me he expected that jones was going to support his weight for the split second it would take for him to support him, but instead let him fall as he walked off, causing him to catch air when he goes to grab machida.

It'f funny how people can see the same thing so differently, isn't it?

DeVore

I looks to me like Jones deliberately dumped him to the left and obstructs the ref. He could have dumped Machida into Johns arms. Quite clearly he didn't give a rats ass. So now I don't give a rats ass about him.

DeV.

dave1982

Fall_Guy wrote: »

To me it looks a lot more like McCarthy put his arms out to grab him and MISSED him. That say to me he expected that jones was going to support his weight for the split second it would take for him to support him, but instead let him fall as he walked off, causing him to catch air when he goes to grab machida.

It'f funny how people can see the same thing so differently, isn't it?

True didn't notice that

Kent Brockman

I was becoming a big admirer of Jones mainly due to his absolute destruction of Vera, then Bader, then Shogun then Rampage (all of whom I thought could beat him:o)

Then he was very disrespectful to Rashad Evans ....so he is starting to believe the hype lol!
He should not have dropped Lyoto IMO, it was a bit disrespectful and could have led to an injury, but it is a fight and sure he was still pumped at that moment.
Macheda did make him seem a little less invincible though.

Fear Uladh

Why is jones getting such a hard time?!

It is up to the ref to stop the match and he did just that. Jones has no responsibility to do anything other than finish the fight.

I really don't understand why these fighters do not tap when they know they are in trouble, I mean between nog and machida Knew they should've tapped when they knew they were caught, there's absolutely no shame in tapping at all.

Nog could've saved himself a broken arm and machida could've saved himself passing out if he just tapped.

Clive

Fear Uladh wrote: »

I really don't understand why these fighters do not tap when they know they are in trouble, I mean between nog and machida Knew they should've tapped when they knew they were caught, there's absolutely no shame in tapping at all.

Very few people don't tap out of pride or ego - they think they can either escape or that the submission isn't quite on. A kimura attacks the shoulder, Nog likely felt it wasn't going to pop his shoulder, so he'd tough it out and escape in a transition. The torque on his arm caused it to break suddenly, at which point he tapped as the ref stepped in.

cowzerp

Fear Uladh wrote: »

Why is jones getting such a hard time?!

It is up to the ref to stop the match and he did just that. Jones has no responsibility to do anything other than finish the fight.

Any fighter who shows disrespect to there opponents tends to be disliked, what Jones done was not legally wrong as far as MMA goes but Morally it was in my opinion and many others

The actual dropping is split second and can happen, the walking off without a care for the opponents health is a different story and what made Jones look bad.

As far as Silva and GSP been disliked-in my opinion this is because they don't care wheter they entertain the crowd or not, they have been in some stinkers that would put you off MMA for life if it was your 1st time seeing it.

Chuck liddell/Fedor where loved when he was dominant so that throws the whole dominant fighters been disliked idea out the window.

Fear Uladh

Any fighter who shows disrespect to there opponents tends to be disliked, what Jones done was not legally wrong as far as MMA goes but Morally it was in my opinion and many others

You could look at it that way, but he could have been letting the medical staff do their job, a lot of people rushed the ring after Machida dropped.

The actual dropping is split second and can happen, the walking off without a care for the opponents health is a different story and what made Jones look bad.

See above.

As far as Silva and GSP been disliked-in my opinion this is because they don't care wheter they entertain the crowd or not, they have been in some stinkers that would put you off MMA for life if it was your 1st time seeing it.

I agree as far as GSP goes because some people hate the wrestling style(I like it personally and think it takes great patience and skill), but it is still mixed martial arts, if you are a fan simply going in for blood and guts then you're honestly better off watching something else.

As for Anderson Silva, there hasn't been that many stinkers and I've seen every one of his televised fights or videos, he is entertaining every time. The only 2 I can think of is Thales Leites or Damien Maia.

Chuck liddell/Fedor where loved when he was dominant so that throws the whole dominant fighters been disliked idea out the window.

Well you are always going to get the popular fighters that have taken the sport to the level it is at. Comparing Jones to legends like Liddell or Fedor is just plain wrong.

Tubbs4

horsemeat wrote: »

cowzerp wrote: »

I'd kick his arm, if its planted it will be probably game over.

you really think a kick in the arm is going to break it??
sure it'd hurt and would make him think twice again but saying it'd end the fight is a tad optimistic.

also once you get into his range he'd just spring up and lash you.

Rich Franklan arm was broke by a kick by the ice man.

lil-evil

1) I hate Jones coz he's an arrogant p*ick, i hate all this "i've a feeling this is going to be a wonderful day" crap when he wakes up.

2) As above i don't like Jones but i wouldn't let go unil the REF steps in as we've seen it before where it can all go belly up if you walk away thinking he's out or tapped when he hasn't.

3) I think although Jones didn't help the situation but just dropping Machida i think BIG JOHN got it all wrong thinking he could catch Machida on the way down ( weighing 230plus lbs )and we have to remember it's not concrete he's falling onto.

4) I think what Frank did is a lot worse as he held it at breking point " took a deep breath and pushed it " ( by his own admission ).

MrStuffins

Fall_Guy wrote: »

but instead let him fall as he walked off,

Nice username

Fear Uladh wrote: »

Why is jones getting such a hard time?!

I honestly think a lot of the hate is irrational. Why isnt there pages and pages of people giving out about John Dodson giving Johnny Bedford 5-6 extra punches before the ref stepped in in TUF for example? I remember when Tito refused to let go of his choke on Bader there was 1 maybe 2 posters who slagged him off for it, the rest didn't care or just said "Well, he could've maybe let go earlier but....".

Again, i'm not saying people are wrong to criticise over dropping him, I can see that POV. BUt I think people are using small things in order to beat up on him. If someone else did something similar on the undercard, nobody would care IMO. Sure non-events like these happen all the time and nobody bats an eyelid! But as soon as it's someone like Jones people jump on it.

cowzerp wrote: »

Chuck liddell/Fedor where loved when he was dominant so that throws the whole dominant fighters been disliked idea out the window.

Come on now. You can't seriously be comparing Jones to Chuck and Fedor. Why not compare Aiden McGeady to Pele and Maradona?

pablohoney87

lil-evil wrote: »

4) I think what Frank did is a lot worse as he held it at breking point " took a deep breath and pushed it " ( by his own admission ).

How exactly? Nog had every opportunity to tap.
I think the deep breath thing was in anticipation of it. As if to stop a gag reflex.

El Guapo!

I liked Jones at the start because he seemed like a genuinely nice guy and he came across as fairly humble too.
But not anymore. As time goes on he gets more and more arrogant and cocky. That'll probably be his downfall too.....he'll get way too arrogant and somebody will make him pay for it too.

Regarding him dropping Machida, I'm not so sure he just dumped him. In the heat of the moment with all the action going on he let go when the ref told him to....which is what he's supposed to do. So I'd give him the benfit of the doubt on that one.

For people saying he held the choke too long......fair enough he could've turned to John McCarthy and said he was out, but there wasn't that much time between Machida going limp and McCarthy stepping in so again you'd have to give him the benefit of the doubt on that one too. (Although he did say to Rogan that he felt him go out)

Walking away and not checking on Machida though is unforgivable. It's common decency to make sure he's ok, and the majority of fighters will always go over and check on their opponent. Jones had to be told by Jackson to check on him.
And as for that pathetic excuse Jackson gave...... does he really think the fans are stupid enough to swallow that??!

cowzerp

MrStuffins wrote: »

Come on now. You can't seriously be comparing Jones to Chuck and Fedor. Why not compare Aiden McGeady to Pele and Maradona?

Im not comparing there abilities, what I'm saying is people are saying there disliked because there successful, my 2 examples could not have been more successful and where loved.

That's aimed at fear uladh too

MrStuffins

cowzerp wrote: »

Im not comparing there abilities, what I'm saying is people are saying there disliked because there successful, my 2 examples could not have been more successful and where loved.

That's aimed at fear uladh too

To pick out 2 fighters who were talented and popular proves nothing. At the same time I could show you examples of not only MMA guys but stars from all other sports who get stick for being talented. It's the same with teams too.

I find it hard to believe that you don't realise that this phenomenon exists to be fair.

cowzerp

That's the whole point I'm making, its not only due to them been talented, I am not a fan of Gsp or silva, there both great fighters but they bore me to tears half the time, I don't dislike them because there talented its because they bore me.

I don't get how you don't see that-or maybe you think everyone thinks the same as you or should.

Add on-jones may be disliked because he can be seen to be arrogant, I don't dislike him but I do dislike what I feel was disrespectful behaviour

MrStuffins

cowzerp wrote: »

That's the whole point I'm making, its not only due to them been talented, I am not a fan of Gsp or silva, there both great fighters but they bore me to tears half the time, I don't dislike them because there talented its because they bore me.

I don't get how you don't see that-or maybe you think everyone thinks the same as you or should.

Eh? I'm not trying to be smart here but have you read the thread? Have you bothered to read my comments on people disliking GSP or Silva? I've actually addressed this.

MrStuffins wrote: »

like what we see with detractors of GSP and Silva (although, the GSP criticism, while I completely disagree with it, is perectly valid).

MrStuffins wrote: »

The "GSP id boring" criticism is the only one that stands up IMO. I disagree with it, but I 100% see where people are coming from when they say it.

When it gets into the "Well if he was a real man he would've stood with his opponent and not took him down" territory is when it gets silly and people are criticising for non issues. I believe this Jones situation is a non-issue.

MrStuffins wrote: »

I
I like GSP but I can see where the "boring" tag comes from, But I think some tend to get a bit carried away with looking for something to beat someone with and they jump on any little thing, this time Jones "dropping" Machida and/or walking away. It's all a bit silly if you ask me.

If you have read the thread then I feel the "I don't get how you don't see that-or maybe you think everyone thinks the same as you or should" is a completely unfair comment. If you haven't read the thread, well.............

Add on-jones may be disliked because he can be seen to be arrogant, I don't dislike him but I do dislike what I feel was disrespectful behaviour

That's grand. I understand that. All I was doing was explaining my point of view.

You say he MAY BE disliked due to what your said. Of course, where did I say that's not the case?

But he also may be disliked, or the dislike for him magnified, because people are looking for something to beat him up with.