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Seanie Johnston Kildare Transfer?
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Did Brady try to transfer to another county? Did Brady parade around with another county's players after a league final win as if he played a part in it while he was still a Cavan player? If not, I don't see why he would be a "semi hate figure" in Cavan.premierstone wrote: »I remember Keoghan saying that at the time yes, I actually was speaking about the general Cavan supporter base, off course there was some discontent with the move, loosing your star player was hardly going to be welcomed, but alot of the Cavan people I know were understanding about it aswell.
Keoghan is quoted there as saying Brady would never play again for Cavan either, so am I right to assume Brady is a semi-hate figure throughout Cavan now aswell, or like the CCCC is it one rule for Johnson and one rule for the rest????
Strange that some on here see Andrews as some sort of ogre that scared Johnston away from the Cavan team for merely dropping him (while never saying that he would never play for Cavan again while he was managing them). Where were these people when Keoghan said the above?
All in all I think this is a bad move for both the GAA and Kildare. I am curious to find out how Johnston reacts if he gets dropped by McGeeney (that is assuming he gets in the team at all which, in my opinion, is doubtful). I'm also interested to see what happens if/when McGeeney leaves Kildare.0 -
Hammer Archer wrote: »Did Brady try to transfer to another county?
My question was in relation to the feeling towards Johnson and Brady in 2005, I am now led to believe there was complete and total outrage among the Cavan supporters, yet amazingly Seanie returned to the senior team to give many more years service without any Cavan supporters objection??0 -
Seanie Johnston was a student at the time he went to work in the U.S. -- didn't know that but i'd agree he was entitled to go to finance his education and fair play to him for putting his education first. Anyone who would criticise him for that is an ass, whether he be a football manager or a supporter.
This time is totally different. He WAS told he would not play for Cavan again under Andrews. He is entitled to play at the highest level possible. I do not like to see players leaving their county to play for another county but in this case I wish him well. Was he expected to retire altogether ?0 -
That's probably because he apologised.premierstone wrote: »My question was in relation to the feeling towards Johnson and Brady in 2005, I am now led to believe there was complete and total outrage among the Cavan supporters, yet amazingly Seanie returned to the senior team to give many more years service without any Cavan supporters objection??
http://hoganstand.com/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=88686
Nice.tayto lover wrote: »Seanie Johnston was a student at the time he went to work in the U.S. -- didn't know that but i'd agree he was entitled to go to finance his education and fair play to him for putting his education first. Anyone who would criticise him for that is an ass, whether he be a football manager or a supporter.
And finance his education? I've never heard of anyone who went to the US for a couple of months to "finance their education" Here's a quote from the article Lemlin linked to:
From this, it seems that it was a totally spur of the moment decision with no regard for his/their team. From the link I posted above, it seems even he knew he was in the wrong in this case.World Handball champion Brady and ace attacker Johnston informed a stunned Keoghan of their decision on Monday night to travel to Chicago where they will play for the St. Brendan’s club. It’s understood that they were contacted last week by St. Brendan’s and plan to fly out to the US on Friday.
Link? I've not once seen any quotes from Val Andrews saying Johnston would never play for him again, though I am open to correction on this.tayto lover wrote: »This time is totally different. He WAS told he would not play for Cavan again under Andrews. He is entitled to play at the highest level possible. I do not like to see players leaving their county to play for another county but in this case I wish him well. Was he expected to retire altogether ?
No I wouldn't have expected him to retire altogether. What I would have expected from him (and every GAA player from intercounty down to Junior D) to do was make Andrews realise he made a mistake in dropping him instead of running off to another county that he has no connection with whatsoever. Players are dropped from teams left, right and centre for non footballing reasons, not many of them seek an intercounty transfer because of it.0 -
Johnston was told he was not going to be part of the panel at the begining of the year. not that he would not play for Cavan again under Andrews.tayto lover wrote: »He WAS told he would not play for Cavan again under Andrews.
Where does this entitlement come from? Who else is entitled to play at the highest level possible? Am I? If not why not? What is the highest level possible anyway? Should SJ be allowed to play in an AI final for who ever gets that far on the bsis of this entitlement? When does this entitlement end? Is SJ entitled to play at the highest level possible for the rest of his life or just until you say he is no longer entitled? SJ also likes golf, is he entitled to play at the highest level possible there as well?tayto lover wrote: »He is entitled to play at the highest level possible.
Bth I see playing at the highest level possible as a right to be earned, not an entitlement, once is becomes an entitlement the GAA is dead.0 -
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Hammer Archer wrote: »That's probably because he apologised.
http://hoganstand.com/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=88686
Nice.
And finance his education? I've never heard of anyone who went to the US for a couple of months to "finance their education" Here's a quote from the article Lemlin linked to:
From this, it seems that it was a totally spur of the moment decision with no regard for his/their team. From the link I posted above, it seems even he knew he was in the wrong in this case.
Link? I've not once seen any quotes from Val Andrews saying Johnston would never play for him again, though I am open to correction on this.
No I wouldn't have expected him to retire altogether. What I would have expected from him (and every GAA player from intercounty down to Junior D) to do was make Andrews realise he made a mistake in dropping him instead of running off to another county that he has no connection with whatsoever. Players are dropped from teams left, right and centre for non footballing reasons, not many of them seek an intercounty transfer because of it.
What did Johnston have to prove to Andrews ? He was their best forward for years and everyone except Andrews it seems knew this. Also from what i'm told Johnston did work while in the U.S. AND the G.A.A. is still an amateur sport. There seems to be a lot of fibs told about what happened between Andrews and Johnston and neither side have made their differences known as far as i can see. Many have suggested that Johnston was got rid of because he was a bad influence but i have not read or heard any such reports from his Cavan team mates at all nor have any of my Cavan friends. Whatever the reason, Johnston had nothing to prove football-wise to anyone, and the whole episode should have been handled differently. At least Keogan had the sense to see what he was missing and to sit down and talk and rectify the situation.0 -
No one is doubting his ability. But does the fact that he also had troubles with Cavan Gaels recently (I think he was relegated to their reserve team for a time) not lead you to believe that maybe Johnston is at least partially to blame for being dropped by Andrews?tayto lover wrote: »What did Johnston have to prove to Andrews ? He was their best forward for years and everyone except Andrews it seems knew this. Also from what i'm told Johnston did work while in the U.S. AND the G.A.A. is still an amateur sport. There seems to be a lot of fibs told about what happened between Andrews and Johnston and neither side have made their differences known as far as i can see. Many have suggested that Johnston was got rid of because he was a bad influence but i have not read or heard any such reports from his Cavan team mates at all nor have any of my Cavan friends. Whatever the reason, Johnston had nothing to prove football-wise to anyone, and the whole episode should have been handled differently. At least Keogan had the sense to see what he was missing and to sit down and talk and rectify the situation.
Do you not understand the role of the manager? Every single player on every single team in every single sport in the world has to prove to their manager that their worth their place. Players do not and should not get their place on a team thanks to reputation alone. They need to have the right talent and the right attitude. It's obvious that Johnston has the former but did not have the latter and so he was dropped.
And I'm not doubting that he worked while he was in the US. What I am saying is that I very much doubt that he went over there at such short notice to finance his education. The vast majority of young people go to work stateside during the summer simply for the experience rather than the money.
And finally, once again I'll ask, where did Val Andrews say that Johnston would never play for him again?0 -
Hammer Archer wrote: »No one is doubting his ability. But does the fact that he also had troubles with Cavan Gaels recently (I think he was relegated to their reserve team for a time) not lead you to believe that maybe Johnston is at least partially to blame for being dropped by Andrews?
Do you not understand the role of the manager? Every single player on every single team in every single sport in the world has to prove to their manager that their worth their place. Players do not and should not get their place on a team thanks to reputation alone. They need to have the right talent and the right attitude. It's obvious that Johnston has the former but did not have the latter and so he was dropped.
And I'm not doubting that he worked while he was in the US. What I am saying is that I very much doubt that he went over there at such short notice to finance his education. The vast majority of young people go to work stateside during the summer simply for the experience rather than the money.
And finally, once again I'll ask, where did Val Andrews say that Johnston would never play for him again?
From reading the Cavan Hogan Stand boards Johnston was the highest scorer for them for the last number of years and from reading the match reports on the newspapers they would concur. It was by performance rather than reputation that he got his place on the Cavan team if those reports are correct.
I have already said that there was very little in print about the 10 second phone conversation between Andrews and Johnston but from hearing from people who are close to to Johnston on the Cavan website that is what happened. If he was only dropped on a temporary basis why would he seek a transfer to another county ? It wouldn't make sense. How come he didn't do the same when Keoghan dropped him ?0 -
Because he's a gloryhunter.tayto lover wrote: »If he was only dropped on a temporary basis why would he seek a transfer to another county ?0 -
Declan Browne must feel an awful fool for not declaring for Dublin now.tayto lover wrote: »He is entitled to play at the highest level possible.0 -
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The silence from the Cavan panel on the matter is an indictment of Seanies actions as they are happy to move on without him. Even Seanies former teammates who are on the panel are not supporting him and shouting to have him back.tayto lover wrote: »Many have suggested that Johnston was got rid of because he was a bad influence but i have not read or heard any such reports from his Cavan team mates at all nor have any of my Cavan friends.0 -
Those years were history. Last year in the All Ireland championship he scored a massive 4 points in Cavan's two games (3 from frees). In the league, bar a 9 point haul against Tipperary (more than half being frees) in the final game he never really set the world alight. So yes he may have been fantastic for them in previous years, but last year he was distinctly average going by the scoring charts. Note that he was also Cavan's captain last season.tayto lover wrote: »From reading the Cavan Hogan Stand boards Johnston was the highest scorer for them for the last number of years and from reading the match reports on the newspapers they would concur. It was by performance rather than reputation that he got his place on the Cavan team if those reports are correct.
So it was possibly this, coupled with Johnston's attitude that led Andrews to believe that Cavan, with several young, impressionable players coming through the ranks, were better off without him in the team.
Also note that Hyland (who was around the Cavan setup with Andrews) hasn't exactly gone rushing to bring Johnston back into the Cavan squad.
So you are basing your assertion that Andrews said he'd never play for him again on hearsay alone? Forgive me for taking that assertion with a large pinch of salt.tayto lover wrote: »I have already said that there was very little in print about the 10 second phone conversation between Andrews and Johnston but from hearing from people who are close to to Johnston on the Cavan website that is what happened. If he was only dropped on a temporary basis why would he seek a transfer to another county ? It wouldn't make sense. How come he didn't do the same when Keoghan dropped him ?
And I don't know why he would seek a transfer. Do you know why he still pursued the transfer when his nemesis Andrews was out of the Cavan picture? Surely if what you say above is true, that Johnston only sought a transfer because he was told he'd never play for Andrews again, a new manager coming in would mean he'd abandon his intercounty transfer and return to play for his home county.0 -
Why would Hyland bring Seanie back ? It would be hypocritical after his silence when Andrews dropped Seanie. Don't forget Hyland was second in command to Andrews and as such he would now look poor if he took him back. Hyland could never take him back otherwise he would be accused of being afraid of Andrews or of not voicing his opinion at the time. That was never going to happen.Hammer Archer wrote: »Those years were history. Last year in the All Ireland championship he scored a massive 4 points in Cavan's two games (3 from frees). In the league, bar a 9 point haul against Tipperary (more than half being frees) in the final game he never really set the world alight. So yes he may have been fantastic for them in previous years, but last year he was distinctly average going by the scoring charts. Note that he was also Cavan's captain last season.
So it was possibly this, coupled with Johnston's attitude that led Andrews to believe that Cavan, with several young, impressionable players coming through the ranks, were better off without him in the team.
Also note that Hyland (who was around the Cavan setup with Andrews) hasn't exactly gone rushing to bring Johnston back into the Cavan squad.
So you are basing your assertion that Andrews said he'd never play for him again on hearsay alone? Forgive me for taking that assertion with a large pinch of salt.
And I don't know why he would seek a transfer. Do you know why he still pursued the transfer when his nemesis Andrews was out of the Cavan picture? Surely if what you say above is true, that Johnston only sought a transfer because he was told he'd never play for Andrews again, a new manager coming in would mean he'd abandon his intercounty transfer and return to play for his home county.
My willingness to believe Seanie's supporters is because of Andrews previous history with Louth and of how he divided our county and set us back years imo. I said he would do the same with Cavan and was proved right when those same players who stayed quiet when Seanie and Co were shafted eventually shafted Andrews themselves. History repeating itself. My opinion is not therefore based on assertions alone. I predicted what would happen.
Seanie was still Cavan's best forward regardless of his diminishing scores. There were others who would not lace his boots but were kept on.
Why do you think that the players eventually got together and had a meeting to have Andrews removed ? My guess is that they saw through him and came to the realisation that Seanie and co who earlier voiced their opinions about Andrews capabilities or lack of them were right all along and that's why they were axed. That might also explain why Seanie and co were not putting it all in as they doubted Andrews's ability all along and could see the team going nowhere fast under him.0 -
Pete_Cavan wrote: »The silence from the Cavan panel on the matter is an indictment of Seanies actions as they are happy to move on without him. Even Seanies former teammates who are on the panel are not supporting him and shouting to have him back.
Obviously because of the fact that Hyland was Andrews right-hand man at the time and it would not look too good for him either. Players stay quiet because they might suffer the same fate as Seanie if they open their mouths. How would Hyland look if he now invited Seanie back after standing by or maybe even being part of the decision to drop him in the first place ?0 -
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sid waddell wrote: »Declan Browne must feel an awful fool for not declaring for Dublin now.
Was Declan dropped by Tipperary ? I didn't hear that.0 -
If what you say is true, Hyland would be a hero to the rest of the squad if he invited Seanie back. Now you are trying to make out that Hyland is Andrews lap dog who will will not question him even after his reign of terror is over and the Cavan squad are so terrified of Hyland that they will not open their mouths in defence of their exiled companion for fear of reprisals. Please stop making up these ridiculous situations which you have no proof of.tayto lover wrote: »Obviously because of the fact that Hyland was Andrews right-hand man at the time and it would not look too good for him either. Players stay quiet because they might suffer the same fate as Seanie if they open their mouths. How would Hyland look if he now invited Seanie back after standing by or maybe even being part of the decision to drop him in the first place ?
The reality is that Hyland, the Cavan squad and the vast majority of people interested in Cavan football are happy for the team to move on without a player who we are constantly told is one of the best in the country, that should tell you everything you need to know (unless you have some irrational hatred for Val Andrews and are quite happy to create fictional situations involving people you have never met before as long as it fits in with preconceived ideas).0 -
Pete_Cavan wrote: »If what you say is true, Hyland would be a hero to the rest of the squad if he invited Seanie back. Now you are trying to make out that Hyland is Andrews lap dog who will will not question him even after his reign of terror is over and the Cavan squad are so terrified of Hyland that they will not open their mouths in defence of their exiled companion for fear of reprisals. Please stop making up these ridiculous situations which you have no proof of.
The reality is that Hyland, the Cavan squad and the vast majority of people interested in Cavan football are happy for the team to move on without a player who we are constantly told is one of the best in the country, that should tell you everything you need to know (unless you have some irrational hatred for Val Andrews and are quite happy to create fictional situations involving people you have never met before as long as it fits in with preconceived ideas).
Andrews record speaks for itself. I don't have to prove anything regarding him at all. Just try to find his county successes.
I have already spoken to many Cavan people who are very unhappy with Seanie Johnston's treatment. Don't take my word for it either, just check the Cavan Hogan Stand Board where many of the supporters state their opinions. You will find many who share my opinions too.
I really don't care a lot about what happens in Cavan either as my main concerns were to point out the poor quality of manager that was Val Andrews and to express my opinions on the Seanie Johnston affair which is what these threads are all about. I do discuss football matters regularly with my Cavan friends and took an interest in this whole affair as is my right. Many of my opinions were based on what happened here in Louth and were borne out so I was right all along as i predicted what would happen with Val Andrews. If they annoy some people then that's their problem.
Now please be so good as to point out the fictional situations you accuse me of creating.0 -
Kildare should be ashamed of their role in this whole affair as should SJ. Are they so desperate for an All-Ireland that they dont trust the players within their own county? Goes against everything the GAA is founded upon and smacks of desperation by Kildare. Imagine you were the corner-forward dropped for Johnson? If you cant win it with your own friends and fellow county men, I dont think its worth winning.0
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tayto lover wrote: »Andrews record speaks for itself. I don't have to prove anything regarding him at all. Just try to find his county successes.
I have already spoken to many Cavan people who are very unhappy with Seanie Johnston's treatment. Don't take my word for it either, just check the Cavan Hogan Stand Board where many of the supporters state their opinions. You will find many who share my opinions too.
I really don't care a lot about what happens in Cavan either as my main concerns were to point out the poor quality of manager that was Val Andrews and to express my opinions on the Seanie Johnston affair which is what these threads are all about. I do discuss football matters regularly with my Cavan friends and took an interest in this whole affair as is my right. Many of my opinions were based on what happened here in Louth and were borne out so I was right all along as i predicted what would happen with Val Andrews. If they annoy some people then that's their problem.
Now please be so good as to point out the fictional situations you accuse me of creating.
seriously, how many times have you said on this thread that you wouldnt post again. Andrews is sacked, and you are still going on about him. Would you ever cop on and give it a rest. The thread is argumentative enough without your unbelievable hatred to Andrews in every single post you make. Leave it out and give up posting about Andrews. He is no longer an intercounty manager.
Also, your constant referral to the cesspit of fora that is Hoganstand is utterly worthless. If you really give that site so much credence and importance, post your bile about Andrews over there.0 -
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seriously, how many times have you said on this thread that you wouldnt post again. Andrews is sacked, and you are still going on about him. Would you ever cop on and give it a rest. The thread is argumentative enough without your unbelievable hatred to Andrews in every single post you make. Leave it out and give up posting about Andrews. He is no longer an intercounty manager.
Also, your constant referral to the cesspit of fora that is Hoganstand is utterly worthless. If you really give that site so much credence and importance, post your bile about Andrews over there.
Oh did I hit another raw nerve with you.
When you can't win the argument you resort to spouting your own bile and rubbish. If you don't like my posts then don't read them.0 -
tayto lover wrote: »Now please be so good as to point out the fictional situations you accuse me of creating.
As an avid follower of Cavan football, and having spoke to many other avid follower of Cavan football about this, I have never heard any suggestion of this before so I will assume you made it up to turn less informed readers against Andrews.tayto lover wrote: »He WAS told he would not play for Cavan again under Andrews.
So you have decided that Hyland wanted SJ as part of the squad did not voice his opinion at the time and is now afraid to voice his opinions, where are you getting this from? Hyland brought John McCutcheon back into the squad despite McCutcheon having walked away earlier in the year so he is willing to forgive and forget. He could have done the same with SJ but didnt. Hyland is very well respected in Cavan and has the support of the majority of fans, he doesnt have to worry about stupid accusations like "being afraid of Andrews".tayto lover wrote: »Hyland could never take him back otherwise he would be accused of being afraid of Andrews or of not voicing his opinion at the time. That was never going to happen.
If that were true SJ would drop the transfer and return to Cavan Gaels and get himself back into the squad. He hasnt. If Andrews resignation was due to the current players standing shoulder to shoulder with SJ, why arent the players begging SJ to come back now that the tyrant Andrews is gone?tayto lover wrote: »My guess is that they saw through him and came to the realisation that Seanie and co who earlier voiced their opinions about Andrews capabilities or lack of them were right all along and that's why they were axed. That might also explain why Seanie and co were not putting it all in as they doubted Andrews's ability all along and could see the team going nowhere fast under him.tayto lover wrote: »Obviously because of the fact that Hyland was Andrews right-hand man at the time and it would not look too good for him either. Players stay quiet because they might suffer the same fate as Seanie if they open their mouths. How would Hyland look if he now invited Seanie back after standing by or maybe even being part of the decision to drop him in the first place ?
So Hyland is so scared after Andrews that he is unable to voice his own opinions and the players If, as you say, the players support SJ, then they would be happy for Hyland to invite him back. And stop trying to make out that Hyland is afraid to bring SJ back, he hasnt done so, despite having allowed McCutcheon to return, so we can assume he doesnt want him back. You have no idea what you are talking about and are so desperate to attack Andrews that you are willing (possibly unintentionally so) to insult Terry Hyland and the rest of the Cavan panel and portray them as spineless individuals, afraid to voice their own opinions, in order to create a scenario where people will agree with your hatred of Andrews. Cop on.0 -
Pete_Cavan wrote: »As an avid follower of Cavan football, and having spoke to many other avid follower of Cavan football about this, I have never heard any suggestion of this before so I will assume you made it up to turn less informed readers against Andrews.
So you have decided that Hyland wanted SJ as part of the squad did not voice his opinion at the time and is now afraid to voice his opinions, where are you getting this from? Hyland brought John McCutcheon back into the squad despite McCutcheon having walked away earlier in the year so he is willing to forgive and forget. He could have done the same with SJ but didnt. Hyland is very well respected in Cavan and has the support of the majority of fans, he doesnt have to worry about stupid accusations like "being afraid of Andrews".
If that were true SJ would drop the transfer and return to Cavan Gaels and get himself back into the squad. He hasnt. If Andrews resignation was due to the current players standing shoulder to shoulder with SJ, why arent the players begging SJ to come back now that the tyrant Andrews is gone?
So Hyland is so scared after Andrews that he is unable to voice his own opinions and the players If, as you say, the players support SJ, then they would be happy for Hyland to invite him back. And stop trying to make out that Hyland is afraid to bring SJ back, he hasnt done so, despite having allowed McCutcheon to return, so we can assume he doesnt want him back. You have no idea what you are talking about and are so desperate to attack Andrews that you are willing (possibly unintentionally so) to insult Terry Hyland and the rest of the Cavan panel and portray them as spineless individuals, afraid to voice their own opinions, in order to create a scenario where people will agree with your hatred of Andrews. Cop on.
First of all I have no need to attack Andrews now as he is gone and not in a position to manage any team. He has been seen through.
My other posts are opinions. That's all, opinions. I have nothing against Hyland and don't even know him I was simply giving my opinion of why he didn't recall Seanie Johnston. In my opinion he was damned if he recalled Johnston and damned if he didn't as were the players.. I stated my opinion. I didn't decide anything contrary to what you accused me of. If you don't agree with them that's ok but opinions are not lies and you should know the difference. Don't be getting yourself so worked up. Now answer this question for me as a long-time Cavan follower - why did the players suddenly get together to get rid of Andrews ?0 -
Hammer Archer wrote: »Those years were history. Last year in the All Ireland championship he scored a massive 4 points in Cavan's two games (3 from frees). In the league, bar a 9 point haul against Tipperary (more than half being frees) in the final game he never really set the world alight. So yes he may have been fantastic for them in previous years, but last year he was distinctly average going by the scoring charts. Note that he was also Cavan's captain last season.
So it was possibly this, coupled with Johnston's attitude that led Andrews to believe that Cavan, with several young, impressionable players coming through the ranks, were better off without him in the team.
Also note that Hyland (who was around the Cavan setup with Andrews) hasn't exactly gone rushing to bring Johnston back into the Cavan squad.
Having said all this then whats the problem? If he is as ****e as you say he definitely wont make the Kildare team so who cares?
The facts are that he wanted to play in Kildare so he went about getting a transfer to them, within the laws of the game. Whether he makes the inter county team is a separate issue and we'll have to wait and see if he does or doesnt. Sure he isnt even eligible to play yet
Either way, theres a good chance we will play Meath this summer, so if we are level 20 mins to go and he comes off the bench and ruffles a few feathers, happy days :P0 -
Once again you're doing nothing but insinuating things while trying to pass them off as fact. Just as you have done several times throughout this thread. You seem to be cooking up things which now makes Willie Hyland the bad guy in order to preserve your assertion that Johnston is the innocent angel in all this.tayto lover wrote: »Why would Hyland bring Seanie back ? It would be hypocritical after his silence when Andrews dropped Seanie. Don't forget Hyland was second in command to Andrews and as such he would now look poor if he took him back. Hyland could never take him back otherwise he would be accused of being afraid of Andrews or of not voicing his opinion at the time. That was never going to happen.
My willingness to believe Seanie's supporters is because of Andrews previous history with Louth and of how he divided our county and set us back years imo. I said he would do the same with Cavan and was proved right when those same players who stayed quiet when Seanie and Co were shafted eventually shafted Andrews themselves. History repeating itself. My opinion is not therefore based on assertions alone. I predicted what would happen.
Seanie was still Cavan's best forward regardless of his diminishing scores. There were others who would not lace his boots but were kept on.
Why do you think that the players eventually got together and had a meeting to have Andrews removed ? My guess is that they saw through him and came to the realisation that Seanie and co who earlier voiced their opinions about Andrews capabilities or lack of them were right all along and that's why they were axed. That might also explain why Seanie and co were not putting it all in as they doubted Andrews's ability all along and could see the team going nowhere fast under him.
Personally, I'd be more willing to believe that a guy who has brought Cavan back to back Ulster U21 championships has Cavan's best interests at heart than to try and save face. If he thought that bringing Johnston back to Cavan was for the best, then you could be certain he would have done everything to get him back. It's obvious that he doesn't think it's for the best.
Not a Cavan follower, but it turned out that the "players meeting" to get rid of Andrews was exaggerated according to the captain himself.tayto lover wrote: »First of all I have no need to attack Andrews now as he is gone and not in a position to manage any team. He has been seen through.
My other posts are opinions. That's all, opinions. I have nothing against Hyland and don't even know him I was simply giving my opinion of why he didn't recall Seanie Johnston. In my opinion he was damned if he recalled Johnston and damned if he didn't as were the players.. I stated my opinion. I didn't decide anything contrary to what you accused me of. If you don't agree with them that's ok but opinions are not lies and you should know the difference. Don't be getting yourself so worked up. Now answer this question for me as a long-time Cavan follower - why did the players suddenly get together to get rid of Andrews ?
http://hoganstand.com/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=169108
http://hoganstand.com/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=166845
I'd apprectiate it if you would stop putting words in my mouth. Not once did I say Johnston was (as you eloquently put it) "sh!te". The fact is, he had a very poor season last year for such a highly rated player. You cannot deny that one point from play in two championship games is nothing to write home about. The reason I made this point was that another poster made it seem like Johnston was some sort of world beater who never had a bad game. I showed that this was not the case and that with his attitude and poor performances (while captaining his county at the time) Andrews had every right to drop him.Having said all this then whats the problem? If he is as ****e as you say he definitely wont make the Kildare team so who cares?
The facts are that he wanted to play in Kildare so he went about getting a transfer to them, within the laws of the game. Whether he makes the inter county team is a separate issue and we'll have to wait and see if he does or doesnt. Sure he isnt even eligible to play yet
Either way, theres a good chance we will play Meath this summer, so if we are level 20 mins to go and he comes off the bench and ruffles a few feathers, happy days :P
And I would still argue that the transfer was nowhere near within the laws of the game. A transfer should not be allowed if the player is engineering it for footballing reasons only. At the start of this saga, Johnston wanted to play for Kildare yet stay with Cavan Gaels (despite stating later that it would be impossible for him to live in Cavan and train with Kildare :rolleyes:). When he was told that this wasn't allowed, he all of a sudden obtained an address in Straffan. The only reason he got this address was so he could transfer to Kildare nothing to do with work/family that the vast majority of other intercounty transfers are based on (like Billy Joe Padden). I'd also have serious doubts as to whether he is "permanently resident" in Straffan.
And good luck to you if you're happy with bringing a Cavan man with no allegiance whatsoever to the lilywhite jersey instead of a homegrown Kildare lad. I know for me it wouldn't matter if the Gooch himself tried to transfer to Meath, I wouldn't want him anywhere near the Meath team.0 -
The powers that be would beg to differ. TBH I understand the argument that its against the ethos of the GAA, in the sense that the last thing I want to see is some sort of transfer market in the GAA, but he didnt break the rules. If the GAA want to stop this type of thing in future they will have to tighten up the rule book.Hammer Archer wrote: »And I would still argue that the transfer was nowhere near within the laws of the game.
Comparing him to the Gooch is a bit of a stretch! As it stands he is a player for a Kildare club (just like the rest of the panel) and will have to earn his place on the county team (just like the rest of the panel).And good luck to you if you're happy with bringing a Cavan man with no allegiance whatsoever to the lilywhite jersey instead of a homegrown Kildare lad. I know for me it wouldn't matter if the Gooch himself tried to transfer to Meath, I wouldn't want him anywhere near the Meath team.
Bear in mind he still isnt eligible to play for the county team yet. If he doesnt get to play this year but makes next years panel is that ok, or should he be tied to Cavan for life?0 -
Agh come on now this is bordering on the ridiculous now. He clearly didn't compare him to the Gooch he was making a point about wanting Meath people playing for Meath and not people who simply transfer in when they see a better opportunity.The powers that be would beg to differ. TBH I understand the argument that its against the ethos of the GAA, in the sense that the last thing I want to see is some sort of transfer market in the GAA, but he didnt break the rules. If the GAA want to stop this type of thing in future they will have to tighten up the rule book.
Comparing him to the Gooch is a bit of a stretch! As it stands he is a player for a Kildare club (just like the rest of the panel) and will have to earn his place on the county team (just like the rest of the panel).
Bear in mind he still isnt eligible to play for the county team yet. If he doesnt get to play this year but makes next years panel is that ok, or should he be tied to Cavan for life?0 -
tayto lover wrote: »Oh did I hit another raw nerve with you.
When you can't win the argument you resort to spouting your own bile and rubbish. If you don't like my posts then don't read them.
what argument cant I win? I'm not here to win an argument. People are on here dicsussing the transfer of Seanie Johnston. I am against it. Others are for it. Its discussing and debating a topic. Its not about winning an argument, and it sure as hell is not about Val Andrews. You have a seriously worrying unhealthy obsession with him.
BTW, I'm not from Cavan, nor do I even know Val Andrews. So no, you didnt hit a raw nerve. Just sick of seeing your rubbish on here the whole time about it.0 -
settle!
there is NO transfer through yet !
http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/johnston-facing-one-final-hurdle-before-lilywhites-green-light-195097.htmlJohnston facing one final hurdle before Lilywhites green light
By John Fogarty
Friday, May 25, 2012
Seánie Johnston’s transfer saga is not yet at an end, despite reports to the contrary yesterday.
The Central Competitions Control Committee (CCCC) have yet to grant the Cavan native’s request to move to St Kevin’s in his attempt to line out for Kildare in this year’s Championship.
The Central Appeals Committee (CAC) sent the case back to the CCCC. The CAC upheld Johnston’s appeal on Wednesday night against the CCCC’s decision to refuse it last week.
Five months after his original request and two months since his second application, the CAC ruled neither Cavan Gaels nor the Cavan County Committee had objected to the switch within the 10-day time limit outlined in the GAA’s Official Guide. It is understood the characterisation of what constituted an objection was the reason why Johnston’s case was with the CCCC so long.
so the appeal didnt say that the actual decision to block it was right or wrong (i.e. was it proved that the specific player moved permanently or not etc).
If I read that right they are saying that nobody from club or county objected to Seanies 3rd application for transfer within the prescribed 10 days so it should have gone through automatically (regardless of whether he has moved or not)
It'll be interesting to see how this goes. It looked like there was a change of mind according to reports but this is only getting more complicated by the day !0 -
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for reference - heres the rule again.In the case of an Inter-County Transfer, an
application shall be granted if there is no objection
from the County the player is leaving within ten days
of the forwarding of the application to the County
by the Central Council or Provincial Council, as
appropriate.
so no matter how hopeless your case is, you could be looking for a transfer from a club in Dublin to Dundalk but actually living in Dundee Scotland, the CAC is saying so long as nobody objects then your transfer should be rubber stamped.
That cant be right.0
This discussion has been closed.
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