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Cheltenham Ante Post Pick

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    #932
    premierstone
    Registered Users Posts: 7,706 ✭✭✭premierstone


    Colonel Sanders wrote: »
    Grand Crus to run in the gold cup now?

    You would have to think so really, as an antepost backer of both Long Run and Bobs Worth I should be happy about this news but I 100% hope that Kauto is ok and will be able to take part on the big day.


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    #933
    UnitedIrishman
    Registered Users Posts: 5,369 ✭✭✭UnitedIrishman


    Colonel Sanders wrote: »
    Grand Crus to run in the gold cup now?

    I might be one of few in this opinion, but I think he has a better chance in the GC if he runs, than the RSA. Think he stays well, gets up the hill, his jumping has been fluent enough and he's a bit classier than a lot of others left in for the GC. The RSA is very open every year.


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    #934
    Huntley
    Registered Users Posts: 878 ✭✭✭Huntley


    An unfortunate situation because I wanted the King to take his chance, and I have a feeling that Pipe may be about to ruin Grands Crus.


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    #935
    El Ninotorres
    Registered Users Posts: 100 ✭✭El Ninotorres


    Kauto Star fell when Schooling and is only 50-50 to make the festival…

    Edit: Apologies.. Didn't see it had been posted.


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    #936
    UrbanSea
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,335 ✭✭✭✭UrbanSea


    Hope Grands Crus is beaten out of sight (not that I wish him to be injured) if he goes to the Gold Cup.

    That'd show greedy Pipe. Mind you, he'd hardly learn his lesson.


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    #937
    Juwwi
    Registered Users Posts: 4,248 ✭✭✭Juwwi


    Peddlers Cross out to 13/2 on betfair now looks like he wont be running in the Arkle.


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    #938
    UrbanSea
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,335 ✭✭✭✭UrbanSea


    **** that. I'll be raging if he goes for the Jewson, backed Champion Court.

    Just shows how much of a twat McCain has been, saying we haven't seen the real Peddler's. If he is afraid to take on Sprinter Sacre then my suspicions have been confirmed. We saw the real horse, he was looking at SS's backside at Kempton.


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    #939
    supernova84
    Closed Accounts Posts: 972 ✭✭✭supernova84


    average_runner wrote: »
    I think this festival will be one for the bookies. Going to look at the outsiders instead this year!

    Have the same feeling myself, all them short price favs look too good ta be true! And if one goes down, the rest usually follow.


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    #940
    Sammo13
    Registered Users Posts: 208 ✭✭Sammo13


    Crazy if Peddlars goes for Jewson, tough race that, would'nt fancy him to win it at all... Sir des champs for me in the Jewson, Willie thinks awful lot of thid fella... SS remains me of Azertyuiop, could win as easy as azerty did in 2003..


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    #941
    premierstone
    Registered Users Posts: 7,706 ✭✭✭premierstone


    UrbanSea wrote: »
    Hope Grands Crus is beaten out of sight (not that I wish him to be injured) if he goes to the Gold Cup.

    That'd show greedy Pipe. Mind you, he'd hardly learn his lesson.

    Dont agree that it is been greedy at all, if Kauto is out it is as weak a GC as you will see and Grand Crus would have every chance, who knows where the horse will be in 12 mths, might only ever get one chance.


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    #942
    NaiveMelodies
    Registered Users Posts: 3,172 ✭✭✭NaiveMelodies


    Urban, that's three goes you've had in the last few threads I've been reading.
    At 3 of the top trainers around!

    Your clearly very knowledgable and have a genuine interest in racing, but have you had a bad day?!


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    #943
    UrbanSea
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,335 ✭✭✭✭UrbanSea


    only1stevo wrote: »
    Urban, that's three goes you've had in the last few threads I've been reading.
    At 3 of the top trainers around!

    Your clearly very knowledgable and have a genuine interest in racing, but have you had a bad day?!

    Quite the contrary. My points were argued and reasonable, I didn't fly off the handle toward any of them.

    David Pipe is a trainer who consistently seems to mention prize money when choosing a race for a horse. I'd say this is contrary to other top trainers, who generally base their opinions on the best plan for the horse, not the amount of money on offer


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    #944
    Huntley
    Registered Users Posts: 878 ✭✭✭Huntley


    UrbanSea wrote: »
    Just shows how much of a twat McCain has been, saying we haven't seen the real Peddler's. If he is afraid to take on Sprinter Sacre then my suspicions have been confirmed. We saw the real horse, he was looking at SS's backside at Kempton.

    I think McCain deserves a bit of credit if he sends the horse for the Jewson, which I suggested a few weeks ago. No point taking on the machine when there is a viable Grade 2 where conditions would suit better and the horse has a more realistic chance of winning.

    I feel for your bet but there must have been tremendous pressure from people who have been all over the theory that the horse was totally wrong at Kempton. Fair play to the trainer if he has seen the light before it is too late.

    I still think the horse will be Arkle bound but the exchanges tell a story in their own right.


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    #945
    UrbanSea
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,335 ✭✭✭✭UrbanSea


    That's probably true Huntey in one way, that he should be congratulated on eating humble pie.

    But it would be such an anti climax, given that he was so confident throughout that his horse would be much closer, if not beat SS, to change him at the last minute would appear to be conceding defeat before he could even face him again


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    #946
    NaiveMelodies
    Registered Users Posts: 3,172 ✭✭✭NaiveMelodies


    UrbanSea wrote: »
    Quite the contrary. My points were argued and reasonable, I didn't fly off the handle toward any of them.

    David Pipe is a trainer who consistently seems to mention prize money when choosing a race for a horse. I'd say this is contrary to other top trainers, who generally base their opinions on the best plan for the horse, not the amount of money on offer

    I don't think he'd be willing to risk his stable star for prize money, not one bit.
    Grand Crus will only run if Pope believes he can win, with the blessing of the owners of course. When it comes to winning Gold Cups, I can't imagine any trainer has the prize money at the forefront of his or her thoughts.


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    #947
    Huntley
    Registered Users Posts: 878 ✭✭✭Huntley


    UrbanSea wrote: »
    But it would be such an anti climax, given that he was so confident throughout that his horse would be much closer, if not beat SS, to change him at the last minute would appear to be conceding defeat before he could even face him again

    I agree, even the suggestion of the Jewson is a massive vote of no confidence in itself.


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    #948
    UrbanSea
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,335 ✭✭✭✭UrbanSea


    only1stevo wrote: »
    I don't think he'd be willing to risk his stable star for prize money, not one bit.
    Grand Crus will only run if Pope believes he can win, with the blessing of the owners of course. When it comes to winning Gold Cups, I can't imagine any trainer has the prize money at the forefront of his or her thoughts.

    This is true steve. But he should know first hand the dangers of putting a novice in a Championship race given that his father trained Gloria Victis, whose story is infamous even though I was a child when it happened.

    And whilst he may not be doing it here, he has mentioned it so many times in the past that it's not a distinct impossibility that it may occur, though he would still obviously hope he will be in full health


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    #949
    premierstone
    Registered Users Posts: 7,706 ✭✭✭premierstone


    UrbanSea wrote: »
    This is true steve. But he should know first hand the dangers of putting a novice in a Championship race given that his father trained Gloria Victis, whose story is infamous even though I was a child when it happened.

    And whilst he may not be doing it here, he has mentioned it so many times in the past that it's not a distinct impossibility that it may occur, though he would still obviously hope he will be in full health

    What about Captain Christy didnt he win the GC as a novice??


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    #950
    mr.jingle
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,404 ✭✭✭mr.jingle


    only1stevo wrote: »
    Grand Crus will only run if Pope believes he can win, with the blessing of the owners of course.

    Ah sure the Pope will give his blessings to all the horses and owners at the festival on the Sunday Mass live from the Vatican next week:D:D


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    #951
    UrbanSea
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,335 ✭✭✭✭UrbanSea


    premierstone wrote: »
    What about Captain Christy didnt he win the GC as a novice??

    I had to check first if this was a joke


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    #952
    the groutch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,096 ✭✭✭✭the groutch


    going to have a decent sized NRNB punt on Medermit for the GC (25/1).
    he's always looked like the step up to 3m plus could be the making of him, and the gold cup field isnt all that strong (long run far from impressive, kauto & grand crus doubtful)


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    #953
    Harry Angstrom
    Registered Users Posts: 19,351 ✭✭✭✭Harry Angstrom


    I think David Pipe would be mad not to have a crack at the Gold Cup with Grands Crus. This is one of the worst Gold Cups I've seen for a while. Long Run doesn't look as good as he was last year, Burton Port might bounce, Kauto is only 50/50 to make it, and then you've got handicappers like Midnight Chase and Synchronised next in the betting. They won't have a better chance of winning a Gold Cup with Grands Crus. He might be injured next year.


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    #954
    Colonel Sanders
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,669 ✭✭✭Colonel Sanders


    Interesting read re. the bumper

    Hype horse are not the way to go.....


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    #955
    Huntley
    Registered Users Posts: 878 ✭✭✭Huntley


    Harry Angstrom wrote: »
    I think David Pipe would be mad not to have a crack at the Gold Cup with Grands Crus. This is one of the worst Gold Cups I've seen for a while. Long Run doesn't look as good as he was last year, Burton Port might bounce, Kauto is only 50/50 to make it, and then you've got handicappers like Midnight Chase and Synchronised next in the betting. They won't have a better chance of winning a Gold Cup with Grands Crus. He might be injured next year.

    I have no interest in watching Grands Crus in the Gold Cup. There is novice races for a reason. I wasn't even keen on Sprinter Sacre going the Champion Chase route and I have ran out of superlatives to describe him.

    Grands Crus will wilt like a daisy in the Gold Cup.


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    #956
    Harry Angstrom
    Registered Users Posts: 19,351 ✭✭✭✭Harry Angstrom


    Huntley wrote: »
    I have no interest in watching Grands Crus in the Gold Cup.

    You mightn't have any interest watching him in the Gold Cup but his connections just might.


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    #957
    Huntley
    Registered Users Posts: 878 ✭✭✭Huntley


    Harry Angstrom wrote: »
    You mightn't have any interest watching him in the Gold Cup but his connections just might.

    I would hope they have the sense to wait another year so or they won't be watching much more of him.

    He will wilt like a daisy and the knock on effect of that certainly won't benefit the horse.


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    #958
    AngryBollix
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,536 ✭✭✭AngryBollix


    I am torn between Montbazon and Galileos Choice for the supreme novices.

    May just do an each way on both


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    #959
    ipitydafool
    Registered Users Posts: 206 ✭✭ipitydafool


    Huntley wrote: »
    I would hope they have the sense to wait another year so or they won't be watching much more of him.

    He will wilt like a daisy and the knock on effect of that certainly won't benefit the horse.

    Definitely agree. Whatever about the quality of the line-up in this years GC and Grands Crus chances in it if the owner/trainer care about their horse and its long term future they should go the novice route this year. The horse only 7 so has plenty more time to run in the top championship chases yet.

    Last year Pandorama was run in the GC on the insistence of its owner Robert Bagnall even though it had been declared well beforehand the horse loved heavy ground and the conditions on Gold Cup day would be too fast for him. Owner didnt care wanted his horse to run in race along side Long Run etc and to use Huntley's word it wilted like a daisy and injured itself in the race. Hasnt been seen on a racecourse since and we dont know if it comes back will it be the same horse again. Whilst not exactly a same case comparsion and not saying this is the case here but it does go to highlight how the gold cup can tint owners views with regards their horses. Considering what happened the horse trained by his father I really think David Pipe should be the one convincing its owners the RSA chase is the one to go for.


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    #960
    premierstone
    Registered Users Posts: 7,706 ✭✭✭premierstone


    ipitydafool wrote: »
    Definitely agree. Whatever about the quality of the line-up in this years GC and Grands Crus chances in it if the owner/trainer care about their horse and its long term future they should go the novice route this year. The horse only 7 so has plenty more time to run in the top championship chases yet.

    Last year Pandorama was run in the GC on the insistence of its owner Robert Bagnall even though it had been declared well beforehand the horse loved heavy ground and the conditions on Gold Cup day would be too fast for him. Owner didnt care wanted his horse to run in race along side Long Run etc and to use Huntley's word it wilted like a daisy and injured itself in the race. Hasnt been seen on a racecourse since and we dont know if it comes back will it be the same horse again. Whilst not exactly a same case comparsion and not saying this is the case here but it does go to highlight how the gold cup can tint owners views with regards their horses. Considering what happened the horse trained by his father I really think David Pipe should be the one convincing its owners the RSA chase is the one to go for.

    I am not saying I entirely agree or disagree with you but I could list off a fair few horses that have never ever recovered from the vigours of the RSA, far more than novices ruined by the GC, I appreciate this is due to how few novices have actually ran in it, but the point is still valid that the RSA is a very very demanding test on a horse and one I would avoid if I ever had a horse of that calibre tbh.

    The situation with Pandorama was a joke alright and the horse should never have been let near the race, but its owners who finance the game and keep trainers in work so their wishes have to be adhered to, despite how little alot of them actually know about the game or indeed their own horses.

    Personally I think they will let him take he's chance, if Kauto is a non-runner, after Long Run the race would then be very very weak and there is absolutely no guarantee Grand Crus will be fit and well in 12 months time, my own gut feeling is he wont win either race and I will lay him in either this for a place or the RSA for the win, the horse is not a good enough stayer imo.


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    #961
    Hulk Hands
    Registered Users Posts: 6,014 ✭✭✭Hulk Hands


    All this talk of the owners not caring about the horse if they go for the Gold Cup is crap. They will be going a similar pace in the RSA as they would in the GC. The horse has already proven he jumps brilliantly off a fast pace as shown by kempton. If anything, he's safer in the GC where he's in beside experienced jumpers rather than the RSA where jumping mistakes all sides could knock his confidence, or he could be brought down which is nearly more dangerous than a fall. The only small argument people might have is that he's going over 2 furlongs further. But the horse isn't a baby. He ran for 3 miles last year at a quicker pace than he'd experience in the Gold Cup and has shown no ill effects. You could easily make the opposite argument, that if the connections cared about him they'd run him in the GC rather than the RSA. The RSA has ruined a hell of a lot more horses


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