Who thinks Sean Quinn is a great businessman now?

R P McMurphy

Senna wrote: »

Will be interesting to see how the NI court view his "family assets". Even thought the NI bankruptcy period is short, i still think they will get more money out of him (and his family) than if he had of declared bankruptcy here.

He was greedy, plain and simple, you can like the man as much as you want, he and he alone destroyed his own business and i just cant see how anyone can justify his enormous level of greed.

He was greedy, I don't think that can be disputed but there was a cast iron rationale behind what he did and if it worked out he would have had enormous power and influence. For a man without significant political links it would have been some achievement. As someone pointed out above, it could be likened to the fable of the dog losing its own bone in the water while trying to get the one that was its reflection. Must be a sickener for him to think that only a few years ago his empire was valued in billions and now is reversed, is certainly a sickener for everyone with insurance policies that the insurance model was conpletely flawed. Again it is lack of regulation that has been highlighted

Liam Byrne

R P McMurphy wrote: »

Senna wrote: »

Will be interesting to see how the NI court view his "family assets". Even thought the NI bankruptcy period is short, i still think they will get more money out of him (and his family) than if he had of declared bankruptcy here.

He was greedy, plain and simple, you can like the man as much as you want, he and he alone destroyed his own business and i just cant see how anyone can justify his enormous level of greed.

He was greedy, I don't think that can be disputed but there was a cast iron rationale behind what he did and if it worked out he would have had enormous power and influence. For a man without significant political links it would have been some achievement. As someone pointed out above, it could be likened to the fable of the dog losing its own bone in the water while trying to get the one that was its reflection. Must be a sickener for him to think that only a few years ago his empire was valued in billions and now is reversed, is certainly a sickener for everyone with insurance policies that the insurance model was conpletely flawed. Again it is lack of regulation that has been highlighted

The point is that his wealth HASN'T been reversed. He'll still be wealthier than mort ordinary people are, except we have to honour the stuff that we have personally guaranteed.

And there is the issue and core fact - he PERSONALLY guaranteed the debt; just like every car loan and mortgage in the country.

And none of us are getting bailed out.

LETHAL LADY

Come all without, come all within
You'll not see nothing like the Mighty Quinn
Come all without, come all within
You'll not see nothing like the Mighty Quinn

http://youtu.be/liIQLIx2Onw

Katekat

A Primal Nut wrote: »

If he knew Anglo was suspect, and knew exactly what he is doing, then why did he invest so much in Anglo?

Plenty of other people invested in Anglo and BoI shares. Shane Ross wrote a book about how the property/bank collapse was easy to predict yet he himself had Bank Of Ireland shares right up to the end.

Because he thought he was going to wing just like the other times

Katekat

Killer Pigeon wrote: »

When did I say that?



If he earned it, then yeah...



When were these rules enforced and how long has Quinn been building up his businesses?

They have been in place long before he got involved with the insurance game. Its a huge no no in the insurance game is to mess with reserves. once its found out they will come down on you like a ton of bricks and will go through the books with fine tooth comb - this contributed to quinn loosing his insurance company. what shocked his competitors was the scale of which he was doing it.

Ray Palmer

He made major gambles and took huge risk and eventually lost. If he was a poker player he would be seen as not very good. The objectives isn't to take huge risks and hope to luck out. The objective is to caluculate your risk and seize the opportunity when the risks favour you. He did not do this he just gambled and had been winning. What's more he took down his earlier winnings

Katekat

Ronin247 wrote: »

Its funny how the rules for insurance companies get trotted out again and again.Quinn bought BUPA and the government rushed legislation through overnight to change the rules to suit them to the detriment of Quinn.If no one is playing by the rules why do we expect Quinn to be held to them.

Because its a basic insurance rule that is found not only here but other countries - its the number one rule for all insurers, whether irish based or not. the premium equalisation legislation is only associated with life assurance, yes the government was playing silly buggers with that legislation but he borrowed from the reserves belonging to quinn insurance and would have known from the very start is was not allowed. He used quinn insurance as his own personal bank

K-9

A lot of its assets were Property as well which caused devaluations of their worth.

hollypink

I wonder if Anglo will get anywhere with their challenge to his bankruptcy?

http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/1114/quinns.html

The Irish Bank Resolution Corporation, formerly known as Anglo Irish Bank, is to challenge Seán Quinn's bankruptcy.

Senior Counsel Paul Gallagher for IBRC said it had evidence which contradicted Mr Quinn's claim that his centre of main interest was in Northern Ireland.

IBRC claims that Mr Quinn consistently indicated that his home address was Ballyconnell in Co Cavan in the annual returns of 95 companies of which he was or is a director.

He does not hold any directorships with active UK companies the court was told.

K-9

hollypink wrote: »

I wonder if Anglo will get anywhere with their challenge to his bankruptcy?

I know here if you submit forms to the CRO you have to state if you are Irish resident so I'd hope they'd be able to prove it. No active UK companies seems a bit of a problem alright!

Katekat

K-9 wrote: »

I know here if you submit forms to the CRO you have to state if you are Irish resident so I'd hope they'd be able to prove it. No active UK companies seems a bit of a problem alright!

As per CRO Sean Quinn Holdings is registered in cavan so too are Sean Quinn Quarries and the Insurance company.

Galtee

Katekat wrote: »

As per CRO Sean Quinn Holdings is registered in cavan so too are Sean Quinn Quarries and the Insurance company.

What does this have to do with anything?

Sofa King Great

Galtee wrote: »

What does this have to do with anything?

In order to file for bankruptcy you have to prove that the country is your centre of main interest. The fact that all his companies are registered in ROI and none in NI would suggest that NI is not his centre of main interest.

It is put in place to prevent "bankruptcy tourists"

Galtee

Sofa King Great wrote: »

In order to file for bankruptcy you have to prove that the country is your centre of main interest. The fact that all his companies are registered in ROI and none in NI would suggest that NI is not his centre of main interest.

It is put in place to prevent "bankruptcy tourists"

This is a non issue once he has moved to UK prior to filing.

Katekat

Galtee wrote: »

This is a non issue once he has moved to UK prior to filing.

oh sure this makes it alright then... majority of businesses listed in cavan. main private residence listed in cavan but sure just register in N Ireland and bobs your uncle and fannys your aunt, all ok again.

Galtee

Katekat wrote: »

oh sure this makes it alright then... majority of businesses listed in cavan. main private residence listed in cavan but sure just register in N Ireland and bobs your uncle and fannys your aunt, all ok again.

Who said anything about making it alright? It still doesn't take from the fact that listing business details as per CRO registration is nothing to do with whether he's deemed an Irish resident or not.

texidub

It's quite servile to tip the cap to a man who has put the costs of his business failings on your back... indeed on the nation's back.

But whatever floats your boat.

Also, I don't buy the 'he created jobs' mantra that some people use to praise him. I'm not so sure that creating a job makes someone a hero 'Oh tank you Sir, tank you.'

Creating jobs is not an act of charity --it helps people expand their businesses.

It takes a certain kind of servility and helplessness to think otherwise... but again, whatever floats your boat.

One thing though: I would ask all of the people in Ireland who grovel at the feet of their economic betters to be very careful when they do so as there is a good chance that they will tip the whole boat over with their bowing and scraping...

Sofa King Great

Galtee wrote: »

This is a non issue once he has moved to UK prior to filing.

It is not that simple. You cannot just move to UK. You have to prove that you have established business there and moved all your dealings there.

Galtee

Sofa King Great wrote: »

It is not that simple. You cannot just move to UK. You have to prove that you have established business there and moved all your dealings there.

You don't need to prove you have established business there. You just need to be actually living there when filing for bankruptcy and if gainfully employed then that's all the better. Given that he's from fermanagh originally this isn't going to be a difficult case methinks but we'll have to wait and see.

K-9

Galtee wrote: »

You don't need to prove you have established business there. You just need to be actually living there when filing for bankruptcy and if gainfully employed then that's all the better. Given that he's from fermanagh originally this isn't going to be a difficult case methinks but we'll have to wait and see.

Seems a bit odd though. So if I'd big debts here I could just move to Strabane or Derry for a year or 2 and apply for bankruptcy?

CRO wise you do have to declare if you're are a non resident director. Tax wise to satisfy residence there are also certain rules, where board of directors meetings are held, the company base, stuff like that. It isn't as simple as that hence Anglo fighting it.

Lab_Mouse

am i missing something but how can UK law be applied here?Surely he's only bankrupt in the uk?

I presume the majority of his assets/business is here in the republic?

Sorry the whole thread is tldr!

casualhoarder

i think its great 1 year off the road and off he goes again... think he will get a job for the year to pay off the loans?

foxyboxer

Front Page of the Indo and it claims he has only €11,000 in his bank account.
Yes, in one bank account that is.

Galtee

K-9 wrote: »

Seems a bit odd though. So if I'd big debts here I could just move to Strabane or Derry for a year or 2 and apply for bankruptcy?

CRO wise you do have to declare if you're are a non resident director. Tax wise to satisfy residence there are also certain rules, where board of directors meetings are held, the company base, stuff like that. It isn't as simple as that hence Anglo fighting it.

Regarding CRO rules, this has no bearing on his filing for bankruptcy in UK. He may well have been resident in Ireland at time of setting up the companies which is when the information is required but now he's not resident and that's the criteria for filing in UK.

Jimoslimos

He was awarded an honorary doctorate from my alma mater back in 99.

For shame....:(

joseph brand

texidub wrote: »

It's quite servile to tip the cap to a man who has put the costs of his business failings on your back... indeed on the nation's back.

But whatever floats your boat.

Also, I don't buy the 'he created jobs' mantra that some people use to praise him. I'm not so sure that creating a job makes someone a hero 'Oh tank you Sir, tank you.'

Creating jobs is not an act of charity --it helps people expand their businesses.

It takes a certain kind of servility and helplessness to think otherwise... but again, whatever floats your boat.

One thing though: I would ask all of the people in Ireland who grovel at the feet of their economic betters to be very careful when they do so as there is a good chance that they will tip the whole boat over with their bowing and scraping...

I've read this post twice, I like it so much. And it taught me the word 'servile'. I'm gonna be using this word every day. My mother in law has a servile attitude. Apologies for going off the point, but Sean Quinn will be back as he has moved a lot of cash to members of his family. A scumbag, gambling away peoples futures.

Also, why is Galtee trolling in here?

joseph brand

latenia wrote: »

The man is clearly some kind of sociopath. Even up to just a few years ago he was buying pubs around Dublin, even though he was already a billionaire. His move towards taking over Anglo was the action of someone utterly consumed by greed. Even €100M would have been enough for him, his children and several following generations to live in luxury but he seemed to just want to accumulate money and assets for the sake of it.

He probably heard about another billionaire who had more than him, and wanted to 'catch up'. He's lost his marbles and his status! Not his money. The scumbag. :mad:

K-9

Galtee wrote: »

Regarding CRO rules, this has no bearing on his filing for bankruptcy in UK. He may well have been resident in Ireland at time of setting up the companies which is when the information is required but now he's not resident and that's the criteria for filing in UK.

Right. I've no problem with that. Don't you have to be a certain amount of time in another jurisdiction to be a resident there? I can't move to the North tomorrow and be Northern resident?

Plus he has no active UK companies that he directs. All I'm saying is I don't think this is as clear cut as just moving to the North. Law tends to be a bit complicated!

Katekat

joseph brand wrote: »

I've read this post twice, I like it so much. And it taught me the word 'servile'. I'm gonna be using this word every day. My mother in law has a servile attitude. Apologies for going off the point, but Sean Quinn will be back as he has moved a lot of cash to members of his family. A scumbag, gambling away peoples futures.

Also, why is Galtee trolling in here?

Because s/he's Sean Quinn lovechild?

Galtee

K-9 wrote: »

Right. I've no problem with that. Don't you have to be a certain amount of time in another jurisdiction to be a resident there? I can't move to the North tomorrow and be Northern resident?

Plus he has no active UK companies that he directs. All I'm saying is I don't think this is as clear cut as just moving to the North. Law tends to be a bit complicated!

To re-iterate, you don't need to have active businesses there. Even if he did have active businesses there it doesn't go towards proving his residency. He's living there and under UK law that's enough to file for bankruptcy. If he's gainfully employed there that would favour his case as it copperfastens his claim. I doubt he'll be working in McDonalds though even this would do the trick.