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Who thinks Sean Quinn is a great businessman now?

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    #152
    Ace2007
    Registered Users Posts: 19,695 ✭✭✭✭Ace2007


    Killer Pigeon wrote: »
    Since Quinn began business he created thousands of jobs all over the country and created an enterprise worth about 5 billion. The biggest mistake he make was to invest in Anglo. When the bust came, he lost billions in shares! In order to sustain most of those jobs he had created, he had to take out a massive loan.

    Yes, he make a mistake by investing in Anglo, we all make mistakes. Those who decided to take 100% mortgages during the boom made a mistake too. Nobody's perfect. However, it's terribly disingenuous to turn a blind eye to all the good thing Quinn has done over the past 30 years and paint him as a crook like those bankers who got his business and other people in the rest of the country into the mess they're in in the first place.

    you haven't a clue, he's a gambler thats all, he rolled the dice a few times and got lucky and hence started business and created employment, every loan he took out was given security.

    Answer this question, why does he take the risk? one reason and one reason only - greed.

    i love your comparison wit the 100% loans, you see the bankers chasin for their money, you don't see people being able to refuse to pay, default on their loans and keep their property - do you?


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    #153
    Ace2007
    Registered Users Posts: 19,695 ✭✭✭✭Ace2007


    Ronin247 wrote: »
    I would defend most of what Sean Quinn is doing,and would do the exact same thing if in that position.

    Quinn bought a load of Anglo shares,based on a set of cooked books which no one has been prosecuted for cooking!

    Anglo goes bump due to a property bubble bursting and the madness of a government letting banks lend at up to 10x salary for a mortgage,and still no prosecutions.

    Lenihan and Cowen say "oh ok the country will accept these debts because our friends are bondholders and it would look bad to the Germans if we didnt pay a PRIVATE companies debts.

    Sean Quinn never took one cent of your money.His PRIVATE company owed another PRIVATE company a sh*t load of money. Our government assumed these debts to please Europe.

    If you want to blame someone look no further than our political system.

    I am not from Cavan and none of my family work for Quinn.

    lol


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    #154
    evolving_doors
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,812 ✭✭✭✭evolving_doors


    In reality i'd say his employees were a means to an end..
    Lets not kid ourselves .he didn;t go into business rubbing his hands with glee saying " oh I'm going to create so many jobs horayyy"

    How can someone with 2.8 BILLION to spare want or need more money?
    If I won 2.8MILLION in the lotto i'd be happy enough with my lot... never mind 2.8 BILLION

    SHEER GREED


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    #155
    Killer Pigeon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,132 ✭✭✭Killer Pigeon


    overshoot wrote: »
    didnt bother reading most of the posts but in response to the op yes i still do respect him. he started with a second hand truck and how thanks to him thousands are still employed in the border area which the governent couldnt give a shit about. even if he does owe 2.8 billion, how much more has gone into the border economy through his jobs? how much was paid in tax before it went tits up? how many of these jobs would have been created without him?
    to sum up id still say he has contributed more than he has cost us

    I agree. I agree with what someone on the first page here said, the amount of begrudgery surrounding the whole debacle is sickening. You'll find a lot of that on After Hours and on boards.ie in general. You and I will probably get a lot of abuse now for saying that but that's the reality.

    Probably many of the people complaining are those who were foolish enough to take out hundreds of thousands of euro worth of mortgages on badly build properties and now find themselves in the sorry situation where they can't pay it back. They go out and campaign for concessions on their mortgages/loans and then have the hypocrisy to begin hemming and hawking when someone, like Quinn, goes and declares bankruptcy; someone who did more for the community over the past 30 years and deserves more recognition than most of them clowns. It's fashionable to think that every big businessman is a corrupt crook but it's not always the case.

    Go on dear members of boards.ie who are influenced, like most Irish people, by the populist mob bashing, give me your best shot! Sometimes I think that I'm reading a transcript from Liveline.


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    #156
    kumate_champ07
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,150 ✭✭✭kumate_champ07


    a gambler doesnt get to keep the pot when he's lost the game

    this guy is a criminal. CAB should go after his family


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    #157
    Kasabian
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,689 ✭✭✭Kasabian


    overshoot wrote: »
    didnt bother reading most of the posts but in response to the op yes i still do respect him. he started with a second hand truck and how thanks to him thousands are still employed in the border area which the governent couldnt give a shit about. even if he does owe 2.8 billion, how much more has gone into the border economy through his jobs? how much was paid in tax before it went tits up? how many of these jobs would have been created without him?
    to sum up id still say he has contributed more than he has cost us

    You do realise that his business deals played a part in the figure of 450000 unemployed in this country.

    Are you another of the "beholding" in Cavan?

    How many jobs would 2.8 billion create?


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    #158
    Ace2007
    Registered Users Posts: 19,695 ✭✭✭✭Ace2007


    Killer Pigeon wrote: »
    When did he take the loan out of Anglo. Was it before or after the Anglo was nationalised. If he happened before Anglo was nationalised, then he did not intend to leave any onus on the taxpayer.

    But the thing is, he wouldn't have been able to pay back the 2.8 billion in the first place.

    These are the options he had after if these scenarios happened after the bank guarantee;
    (a) No money to keep thousands of employees in their jobs. Don't take out loan. Can't pay employees. They all lose their jobs.
    (b) No money to keep thousands of employees in their jobs. Take out massive loan. Bank gets nationalised. Responsibility to keep these thousands of employees now falls on government who help fuck the country up in the first place.

    Which would you choose?

    Why gamble with the jobs of others?
    if you care about your employees you don't gamble - he had no need to gamble, he gambled for greed, he wanted more and more and more.


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    #159
    Ace2007
    Registered Users Posts: 19,695 ✭✭✭✭Ace2007


    Killer Pigeon wrote: »
    I agree. I agree with what someone on the first page here said, the amount of begrudgery surrounding the whole debacle is sickening. You'll find a lot of that on After Hours and on boards.ie in general. You and I will probably get a lot of abuse now for saying that but that's the reality.

    Probably many of the people complaining are those who were foolish enough to take out hundreds of thousands of euro worth of mortgages on badly build properties and now find themselves in the sorry situation where they can't pay it back. They go out and campaign for concessions on their mortgages/loans and then have the hypocrisy to begin hemming and hawking when someone, like Quinn, goes and declares bankruptcy; someone who did more for the community over the past 30 years and deserves more recognition than most of them clowns. It's fashionable to think that every big businessman is a corrupt crook but it's not always the case.

    Go on dear members of boards.ie who are influenced, like most Irish people who fall in line with the populist mob bashing, give me your best shot! Sometimes I think that I'm reading a transcript from Liveline.

    you say he did this and did that for the irish community, than why does he not file for bankruptcy in the irish state which is left to clean up his mess?


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    #160
    desertcircus
    Registered Users Posts: 2,648 ✭✭✭desertcircus


    Killer Pigeon wrote: »
    I agree. I agree with what someone on the first page here said, the amount of begrudgery surrounding the whole debacle is sickening. You'll find a lot of that on After Hours and on boards.ie in general. You and I will probably get a lot of abuse now for saying that but that's the reality.

    Probably many of the people complaining are those who were foolish enough to take out hundreds of thousands of euro worth of mortgages on badly build properties and now find themselves in the sorry situation where they can't pay it back. They go out and campaign for concessions on their mortgages/loans and then have the hypocrisy to begin hemming and hawking when someone, like Quinn, goes and declares bankruptcy; someone who did more for the community over the past 30 years and deserves more recognition than most of them clowns. It's fashionable to think that every big businessman is a corrupt crook but it's not always the case.

    Go on dear members of boards.ie who are influenced, like most Irish people who fall in line with the populist mob bashing, give me your best shot! Sometimes I think that I'm reading a transcript from Liveline.

    This is garbage. He owned at least fifteen percent of Anglo; he was in a position to set the agenda of the bank's policies. And to echo another poster: if he did so much for the community, why doesn't he declare bankruptcy here?


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    #161
    Killer Pigeon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,132 ✭✭✭Killer Pigeon


    desertcircus wrote: »
    That was after he invested a couple of billion in buying up somewhere between 15% and 25% of the bank. When Anglo's share price dropped, he was loaned 288m by the bank in order to buy up shares in the form of CFDs to shore up the share price. That's where a huge chunk of the loss was.

    Previously, you very conveniently left out the part where he invested on the order of €2 billion in Anglo before he was loaned €288m. So he has €2 billion in the bank. I honestly couldn't give a crap if there is some question mark over whether or not his attempt to shore up the share price was illegal or not. He very rightly was making the effort to keep the value of his company so he wouldn't have to lay off so many people. It's a lot better than what the real crooks did.
    desertcircus wrote: »
    He took out huge loans and made personal guarantees on them. now those guarantees are being called in and he's doing everything he can to avoid doing what he agreed to do in the first place. Every penny he and his family still have at the end of these proceedings is money stolen from people on the breadline in this country; children with special educational needs; businesses who have to deal with higher taxes.

    Emotion driven nonsense. How the hell would he have known that the banks were going to be nationalised when he invested so much money in the bank.
    desertcircus wrote: »
    As I've said, if he handed over everything once it became clear that his debts were going to become public, then I'd have some respect for him. He didn't, though, and people are going to go hungry, go cold, go without the teaching assistance they need, go without the medical treatment they need - because he's unwilling to do what he agreed to in the first place. Scum.

    If she did that sure wouldn't there be even more jobs lost at the Quinn Group leading to thousands of job losses.

    He did more than any other businessman to help his employees and his community than any other businessman in the last 30 year. I find your use of the word "scum" highly disingenuous.


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    #162
    Killer Pigeon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,132 ✭✭✭Killer Pigeon


    desertcircus wrote: »
    This is garbage. He owned at least fifteen percent of Anglo; he was in a position to set the agenda of the bank's policies. And to echo another poster: if he did so much for the community, why doesn't he declare bankruptcy here?

    1) How they hell is someone who holds a mere 15% of a company supposed to set the entire companies agenda?

    2) Perhaps because he wants to get back into business (and get the ball rolling) after 1 year and not 12 years?


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    #163
    Guy:Incognito
    Registered Users Posts: 38,247 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    Killer Pigeon wrote: »
    Probably many of the people complaining are those who were foolish enough to take out hundreds of thousands of euro worth of mortgages on badly build properties and now find themselves in the sorry situation where they can't pay it back. They go out and campaign for concessions on their mortgages/loans and then have the hypocrisy to begin hemming and hawking when someone, like Quinn, goes and declares bankruptcy; someone who did more for the community over the past 30 years and deserves more recognition than most of them clowns. It's fashionable to think that every big businessman is a corrupt crook but it's not always the case. .

    Should those poeple be able to sign the house over to their kids , declare themselves bankrupt and keep living there in the free house?

    Quinn only had a business because he ignored the rules that others had to conduct their businesses by andrisked all of those employees jobs. If the natural course of things had been let occur, like with other private companies, all those peopel would eb on the dole now,purely because of Sean Quinn.


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    #164
    emo72
    Registered Users Posts: 6,208 ✭✭✭emo72


    Howjoe1 wrote: »
    There are bankrupt ordinary citizens who struggle to put food on the table for their children.

    Quinn through a complicated maze has put all his assets in family member names and moved them off shore.

    Is he penniless? i don't believe so. Is he still a millionaire? i think so.

    Is that €2.8 BILLION that is owed to Anglo Irish Bank, that State has gauranteed in our names as citizens, for which we suffer cuts to pay the Bond Holders, are we not to see I penny of it?

    AM I feeling sorry for Quinn? No

    Just another black day in this Banana Republic.

    lets be honest he is a self serving cant . Him and his family will never suffer. We will. He is a cant .


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    #165
    Killer Pigeon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,132 ✭✭✭Killer Pigeon


    kumate_champ07 wrote: »
    a gambler doesnt get to keep the pot when he's lost the game

    this guy is a criminal. CAB should go after his family

    "Yes, Joe, I know I don't really understand the situation, but it's a disgrace, Joe, a disgrace".


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    #166
    nacho libre
    Registered Users Posts: 16,656 ✭✭✭✭nacho libre


    To think there were certain respected journalists who penned articles prior to the economy imploding depicting him as a man who lived a modest life, whose simply pleasure was to play cards with friends, but never for high stakes


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    #167
    Killer Pigeon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,132 ✭✭✭Killer Pigeon


    Guy:Incognito wrote: »
    Should those poeple be able to sign the house over to their kids , declare themselves bankrupt and keep living there in the free house?

    No. Because they're idiots, most of whom were only looking for a quick fix themselves. At least Quinn actually did someone for his employees. And "free house" me eye. He earned his property, unlike a lot of people.
    Guy:Incognito wrote: »
    Quinn only had a business because he ignored the rules that others had to conduct their businesses by andrisked all of those employees jobs. If the natural course of things had been let occur, like with other private companies, all those peopel would eb on the dole now,purely because of Sean Quinn.

    As long as he helped as many employees as he could stay off the dole I say fair play to him.


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    #168
    UglyBolloxFace
    Registered Users Posts: 1,867 ✭✭✭UglyBolloxFace


    syklops wrote: »
    We lost a lot of things during the boom, but its nice to see we didnt lose everything. Things like begrudgery and the delight we have at seeing people who tried, fail.

    Stay proud lazygal.

    Are you ****ing serious? And are all the people who thanked your post ****ing serious? This scumbag bet on the markets to his advantage...when they failed he went running to NAMA.

    You can go and **** off with your rhetoric and, above all, your sheep behaviour.


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    #169
    Ace2007
    Registered Users Posts: 19,695 ✭✭✭✭Ace2007


    Killer Pigeon wrote: »
    No. Because they're idiots, most of whom were only looking for a quick fix themselves. At least Quinn actually did someone for his employees. And "free house" me eye. He earned his property, unlike a lot of people.



    As long as he helped as many employees as he could stay off the dole I say fair play to him.

    LMAO HE EARNED HIS PROPERTY - NO HE DIDN'T HE GAMBLED HIS WAY TO THE TOP AND WON THE GAMBLES, UNTIL HE TOOK ONE TO MANY.

    If you think he cares about his employess why would be gamble with their jobs? you keep skipping this question, why gamble with them?


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    #170
    Kasabian
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,689 ✭✭✭Kasabian


    Killer Pigeon wrote: »
    No. Because they're idiots, most of whom were only looking for a quick fix themselves. At least Quinn actually did someone for his employees. And "free house" me eye. He earned his property, unlike a lot of people.



    As long as he helped as many employees as he could stay off the dole I say fair play to him.

    You are a hypocrite.


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    #171
    Paparazzo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,398 ✭✭✭Paparazzo


    Ronin247 wrote: »
    I would defend most of what Sean Quinn is doing,and would do the exact same thing if in that position.

    Quinn bought a load of Anglo shares,based on a set of cooked books which no one has been prosecuted for cooking!

    Anglo goes bump due to a property bubble bursting and the madness of a government letting banks lend at up to 10x salary for a mortgage,and still no prosecutions.

    Lenihan and Cowen say "oh ok the country will accept these debts because our friends are bondholders and it would look bad to the Germans if we didnt pay a PRIVATE companies debts.

    Sean Quinn never took one cent of your money.His PRIVATE company owed another PRIVATE company a sh*t load of money. Our government assumed these debts to please Europe.

    If you want to blame someone look no further than our political system.

    I am not from Cavan and none of my family work for Quinn.
    Johnny Ronin? Is that you?


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    #172
    overshoot
    Registered Users Posts: 3,208 ✭✭✭overshoot


    Kasabian wrote: »
    You do realise that his business deals played a part in the figure of 450000 unemployed in this country.

    Are you another of the "beholding" in Cavan?

    How many jobs would 2.8 billion create?
    is everyone who defends him from cavan in your opinion? ffs, from the few posts i read im not the only person who has had to say where he is from because id support him when considering his lifetime contribution. no i am not and dont think he has (directly or not) put any jobs into where i am from. but pass thorugh the area and when you do stuff like pass 27 quinn trucks in an hour you realise just how important he is to the area... i was a bored passenger and after 5 minutes started thinking this is mad

    any jobs would 2.8 billion create? about 500000 at a wage of 50k for one year but ya can be damn sure they wouldnt be in cavan or fermanagh... are you one of the "beholding" in dublin who just want all the jobs?


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    #173
    Guy:Incognito
    Registered Users Posts: 38,247 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    Killer Pigeon wrote: »
    No. Because they're idiots, most of whom were only looking for a quick fix themselves. At least Quinn actually did someone for his employees. And "free house" me eye. He earned his property, unlike a lot of people. .

    No , you see you have it backwards. People worked in an honest job nd bought their house from their wages are ok. Man who fraudulently ran a company, not ok.
    Killer Pigeon wrote: »


    As long as he helped as many employees as he could stay off the dole I say fair play to him.

    He helped every one of them on to it. The only reason they are not on the dole is because the government decided not to let the company fold. He ran it in to the ground and if normal service was allowed to occur, it wuldnt exist anymore.


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    #174
    kumate_champ07
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,150 ✭✭✭kumate_champ07


    Killer Pigeon wrote: »
    "Yes, Joe, I know I don't really understand the situation, but it's a disgrace, Joe, a disgrace".
    great point, thanks for that


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    #175
    Killer Pigeon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,132 ✭✭✭Killer Pigeon


    Ace2007 wrote: »
    LMAO HE EARNED HIS PROPERTY - NO HE DIDN'T HE GAMBLED HIS WAY TO THE TOP AND WON THE GAMBLES, UNTIL HE TOOK ONE TO MANY.

    He BUILT a business up over THIRTY years. HE EARNED IT!! People seem to forget that he began as an ordinary menial worker and make his way to the top. How many people could say that they'd be capable of that.
    Ace2007 wrote: »
    If you think he cares about his employess why would be gamble with their jobs? you keep skipping this question, why gamble with them?

    You never asked me why (or even if) he gambled with jobs. He made a mistake, granted, investing in Anglo in the first place. But when he realised that Anglo shares were falling, at least he made the effort to rack up the share price, which would keep the company's value which in turn would help pay employees.


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    #176
    Killer Pigeon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,132 ✭✭✭Killer Pigeon


    Guy:Incognito wrote: »
    No , you see you have it backwards. People worked in an honest job nd bought their house from their wages are ok. Man who fraudulently ran a company, not ok.

    Personally I think that someone who created companies from scratch and employed thousands earned a nice house. Just my personally opinion. And do you have evidence going back THIRTY YEARS to suggest that he fraudulently ran his companies?


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    #177
    Killer Pigeon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,132 ✭✭✭Killer Pigeon


    Kasabian wrote: »
    You are a hypocrite.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8PtJRy1oEA4


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    #178
    Guy:Incognito
    Registered Users Posts: 38,247 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    Killer Pigeon wrote: »
    Personally I think that someone who created companies from scratch and employed thousands earned a nice house. Just my personally opinion. And do you have evidence going back THIRTY YEARS to suggest that he fraudulently ran his companies?

    So employees are idiots for buying a house, but their employer is great for buyign one and he earned it?Howzat?

    He fraudulently ran his insurance company because he didnt keep the cash resveres he was obliged to keep and that his competitors kept. Its easy to beat others if you just ignore the rules.


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    #179
    overshoot
    Registered Users Posts: 3,208 ✭✭✭overshoot


    Guy:Incognito wrote: »
    No , you see you have it backwards. People worked in an honest job nd bought their house from their wages are ok. Man who fraudulently ran a company, not ok.

    He helped every one of them on to it. The only reason they are not on the dole is because the government decided not to let the company fold. He ran it in to the ground and if normal service was allowed to occur, it wuldnt exist anymore.
    He BUILT a business up over THIRTY years. HE EARN IT!! People seem to forget that he began as an ordinary menial worker and make his way to the top. How many people could say that they'd be capable of that.
    comes down to the above imo, if quinn is a thieving git for building up a company from scratch and fucking it up so he cant pay his debts isnt the man who cant pay his morgage in a similar boat?
    both may have started with nothing, both thought they would have money and ended up in negative equity.
    difference is quinn's debt is bigger (because he bought an already fooked insurance company and bought a load of shares in a company with overcooked books) but he employed 8000 directly in 2009 plus hundreds more indirectly, so 8000+ could afford houses thanks to him. (8000 morgages at 200,000 is 1.6bn to give a scale)
    as i said, 2.8bn debt now but how much money has his company contributed over the last 30 years? big picture!


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    #180
    Ace2007
    Registered Users Posts: 19,695 ✭✭✭✭Ace2007


    Killer Pigeon wrote: »
    He BUILT a business up over THIRTY years. HE EARN IT!! People seem to forget that he began as an ordinary menial worker and make his way to the top. How many people could say that they'd be capable of that.


    You never asked me why (or even if) he gambled with jobs. He made a mistake, granted, investing in Anglo in the first place. But when he realised that Anglo shares were falling, at least he made the effort to rack up the share price, which would keep the company's value which in turn would help pay employees.

    So what he built in 30 years - he lost in one roll of the dice?
    his companies also had €100's millions of debts - just for the record.

    but why take this risk, you don't seem to understand, he was gambling everything, why put it all on the line??? -


    Maybe he has put it all on the line before and won?

    His gambling could eventually end up with all those people losing their jobs if they american company pulls out of ireland in the future.

    He openly admits to owing over 200million to the banks but will not pay this back, and has given milions to his family - you obv don't understand the difference of right and wrong?


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    #181
    Killer Pigeon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,132 ✭✭✭Killer Pigeon


    Guy:Incognito wrote: »
    So employees are idiots for buying a house

    When did I say that?
    Guy:Incognito wrote: »
    but their employer is great for buyign one and he earned it?

    If he earned it, then yeah...
    Guy:Incognito wrote: »
    He fraudulently ran his insurance company because he didnt keep the cash resveres he was obliged to keep and that his competitors kept. Its easy to beat others if you just ignore the rules.

    When were these rules enforced and how long has Quinn been building up his businesses?


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