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DCM Class of 2011- the continuing challenge

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    #1202
    BobMac104
    Registered Users Posts: 1,100 ✭✭✭BobMac104


    Name|Weeks Sessions|Weeks Total|Monthly Total|Yearly total|Comments
    BobMac104|6|45M|169.85|1265.95|despite a poor race thursday this has been a decent weeks training. a few more weeks like this should see me back running well.|
    rom|||158|1286||
    Younganne|||91.41m|596.31m||
    red face dave ||||341||
    Nules10 ||||276.3|
    run44|||57m|482.1m||
    Scriba |||5|253.84m||
    Emer911||||529.3|


    Felt great on LSR yesterday. Looking forward to a good week now.


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    #1203
    Younganne
    Registered Users Posts: 3,883 ✭✭✭Younganne


    Name|Weeks Sessions|Weeks Total|Monthly Total|Yearly total|Comments
    BobMac104|6|45M|169.85|1265.95|despite a poor race thursday this has been a decent weeks training. a few more weeks like this should see me back running well.|
    rom|||158|1286||
    Younganne|6|41.73|113.14m|638.04m|very happy with this weeks running, 14m LSR, longest since marathon training last year...:D|
    red face dave ||||341||
    Nules10 ||||276.3|
    run44|||57m|482.1m||
    Scriba |||5|253.84m||
    Emer911||||529.3|


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    #1204
    Younganne
    Registered Users Posts: 3,883 ✭✭✭Younganne


    Hi Folks

    Here is this weeks plan hopefully many of you are feeling nice and refreshed

    |Mon|Tue|Wed|Thur|Fri|Sat|Sun|
    |Rest|6 mile easy|Session 1*|6m easy|20 min recovery|Session 2*|2 hr 30 min easy

    Session 1 - 9 mile progression - 3 miles easy, 3 miles @ MP, 3 miles @ HMP - all continuous running

    Session 2 - 2 miles easy, 6x800m with equal time recovery (jog rec) 2 miles easy

    Ecoli, i'm going to swap wed & sat sessions if thats ok....Meath running group on Wed, and we will be do intervals, i'll do the extra warmup and cool down to bring the miles up...last week we did 5 x 3min, so this week might be 6 x 3 mins, im gettin about 700m into the 3mins....is this ok???
    Any questions just ask


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    #1205
    BobMac104
    Registered Users Posts: 1,100 ✭✭✭BobMac104


    One question E.coli , which you may have addressed before. For CCM i always took saturday as my day off and did the LSRs on sunday. I see you put in a fairly heavy session the days before the LSR. Is this so the LSR emulates later on in the marathon (tired legs etc)? (and also may stop you going too fast on the LSR as you wouldnt be feeling so fresh??)


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    #1206
    ecoli
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,762 ✭✭✭✭ecoli


    Younganne wrote: »
    Ecoli, i'm going to swap wed & sat sessions if thats ok....Meath running group on Wed, and we will be do intervals, i'll do the extra warmup and cool down to bring the miles up...last week we did 5 x 3min, so this week might be 6 x 3 mins, im gettin about 700m into the 3mins....is this ok???
    Any questions just ask

    Thats grand as long as you are working the same system (i.e try to be aiming for 3k-5k pace roughly)


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    #1207
    ecoli
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,762 ✭✭✭✭ecoli


    BobMac104 wrote: »
    One question E.coli , which you may have addressed before. For CCM i always took saturday as my day off and did the LSRs on sunday. I see you put in a fairly heavy session the days before the LSR. Is this so the LSR emulates later on in the marathon (tired legs etc)? (and also may stop you going too fast on the LSR as you wouldnt be feeling so fresh??)

    There are a few reasons for the session before a long run.

    1 - Good for tiring the legs simulating second half of the race

    2 - As many LSRs are to be kept at slow pace you can do a session the day before and get the benefits from the session and LSR even with them being back to back

    3 - I find its better to have a day off after LSR rather than before and having both wouldn't be conducive to heavy training

    4 - The training is designed to be heavy and tire your legs but building endurance. This way when the taper comes it gives you a little extra. Many people rely on the tapers to dramatically improve there times simply because they are better rested which is true but if you are resting before LSRs you are not going to see as significant a change come taper time

    5 - If you go into every LSR fresh you are going to run a few too hard as you feel you have to because its viewed as a "session". You will fly off first few miles and suffer. This will either mentally deflate you or you will have the same approach in the marathon. Going into a long run tired will allow you to simulate the mental aspect somewhat as well as the physical

    6. Having the Wed/Sat Session days allows maximum recovery in between sessions and given that these will help develop you general running fitness these are crucial. We will have a few specific Marathon Long run sessions coming as we get closer to race day but in the mean time we have to build you up to be able to handle them


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    #1208
    rom
    Registered Users Posts: 5,135 ✭✭✭rom


    I have entered DCM and Frank Duffy 10 but the email just says I entered a race series race also. How do I check that I am on the list ? Thanks


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    #1209
    BobMac104
    Registered Users Posts: 1,100 ✭✭✭BobMac104


    Nice one ecoli. Great stuff.


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    #1210
    Younganne
    Registered Users Posts: 3,883 ✭✭✭Younganne


    rom wrote: »
    I have entered DCM and Frank Duffy 10 but the email just says I entered a race series race also. How do I check that I am on the list ? Thanks

    If you go into the online registration tag on the Marathon site, there is an entrants search where you can search by name

    https://enter.dublinmarathon.ie/node/7/entrants_search


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    #1211
    BobMac104
    Registered Users Posts: 1,100 ✭✭✭BobMac104


    Ok another self indulgent race report for ye. Got to this one quite late so had a nice little jog up and down for about 5 mins before the gun went. I said to myself on the way down to really take it easy from the off tonight and see how it goes as i knew it was (again) a tough enough course. I had aimed to just go out at 20min pace (6:26mm). Following the initall burst i steadied and fell into a nice rhythm with a bunch of runners. the first mile was handy enough , it was feeling really easy and i was passing people strangly. Second mile and i was still feeling ok running along side a few people. By the time my watch beeped for the second mile marker i realised that this was almost too easy. I still didnt push though as I was waiting for the pain to arrive but it didnt really come. looked at the watch. less than half a mile to go and the course went straight up a hill for the rest of it. I just held pace and came home in 20:08 (6:26 av) (3.13m) feeling like i could have held that pace for another few miles. Again not a PB but i was so happy with how i felt. I didnt think i had a hope of PBing last night but now i reckon if i went out harder i would have easily done it (19:53).

    next race is another 5k on what i believe is a flatish course. I am gonna go for it at this one. Hopefully i feel good on the day and get back to PBing.


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    #1212
    Younganne
    Registered Users Posts: 3,883 ✭✭✭Younganne


    BobMac104 wrote: »
    Ok another self indulgent race report for ye. Got to this one quite late so had a nice little jog up and down for about 5 mins before the gun went. I said to myself on the way down to really take it easy from the off tonight and see how it goes as i knew it was (again) a tough enough course. I had aimed to just go out at 20min pace (6:26mm). Following the initall burst i steadied and fell into a nice rhythm with a bunch of runners. the first mile was handy enough , it was feeling really easy and i was passing people strangly. Second mile and i was still feeling ok running along side a few people. By the time my watch beeped for the second mile marker i realised that this was almost too easy. I still didnt push though as I was waiting for the pain to arrive but it didnt really come. looked at the watch. less than half a mile to go and the course went straight up a hill for the rest of it. I just held pace and came home in 20:08 (6:26 av) (3.13m) feeling like i could have held that pace for another few miles. Again not a PB but i was so happy with how i felt. I didnt think i had a hope of PBing last night but now i reckon if i went out harder i would have easily done it (19:53).

    next race is another 5k on what i believe is a flatish course. I am gonna go for it at this one. Hopefully i feel good on the day and get back to PBing.

    Bob that sounds like a lovely comfortable run and the time is great considering you didn't push it, so i reckon the PB of 19.53 won't be there for much longer!! Well done!


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    #1213
    ecoli
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,762 ✭✭✭✭ecoli


    Hi Folks

    Here is this weeks plan hopefully many of you are feeling nice and refreshed

    |Mon|Tue|Wed|Thur|Fri|Sat|Sun|
    |Rest|6 mile easy|Session 1*|6m easy|20 min recovery|6 miles easy|2 Hours steady

    Session 1 - 2 miles easy, 3x15 min @ HMP, 2 miles easy

    For your Steady long run I want these to be run about 20 sec per mile faster than normal long run pace

    Hope all are well and no major niggles or injuries at the moment and we havent lost everyone to the Olympics viewing :D


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    #1214
    Younganne
    Registered Users Posts: 3,883 ✭✭✭Younganne


    Hi Ecoli, only 2 runs for me this week(12m total)...had dry needling at physio in 3 areas of right leg on Thursday and then have to take 3 days off running so hoping to get back to it tomorrow with an easy run and then see how the legs is...so i might just take it easy this week to build back up the miles...whats the best advice for this..


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    #1215
    ecoli
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,762 ✭✭✭✭ecoli


    Younganne wrote: »
    Hi Ecoli, only 2 runs for me this week(12m total)...had dry needling at physio in 3 areas of right leg on Thursday and then have to take 3 days off running so hoping to get back to it tomorrow with an easy run and then see how the legs is...so i might just take it easy this week to build back up the miles...whats the best advice for this..

    Having got this done for the first time the other week I can feel your pain. We will aim to rjig your week:

    |Mon|Tue|Wed|Thur|Fri|Sat|Sun|
    |6 miles easy|Rest|6 miles easy|Session 1*|20 min recovery|6 miles easy|2 Hours steady


    Given that there is only one session (aside from the Long run) you have a little leeway. How are you feeling at the moment? Did your physio tell you that when you are getting it done be sure to be very well hydrated for the entire day


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    #1216
    Younganne
    Registered Users Posts: 3,883 ✭✭✭Younganne


    ecoli wrote: »
    Having got this done for the first time the other week I can feel your pain. We will aim to rjig your week:

    |Mon|Tue|Wed|Thur|Fri|Sat|Sun|
    |6 miles easy|Rest|6 miles easy|Session 1*|20 min recovery|6 miles easy|2 Hours steady


    Given that there is only one session (aside from the Long run) you have a little leeway. How are you feeling at the moment? Did your physio tell you that when you are getting it done be sure to be very well hydrated for the entire day

    Thanks Ecoli, only back putting full weigh on the foot yesterday evening but feeling ok today...back in two weeks for another session, God help me!! She reckons my calf is my problem and the IT band not too bad at all....plenty of hydration..and plenty of tim to watch Olympics too!!;)


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    #1217
    ecoli
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,762 ✭✭✭✭ecoli


    Younganne wrote: »
    Thanks Ecoli, only back putting full weigh on the foot yesterday evening but feeling ok today...back in two weeks for another session, God help me!! She reckons my calf is my problem and the IT band not too bad at all....plenty of hydration..and plenty of tim to watch Olympics too!!;)

    Yeah I got the IT band done myself but was told that the calf is among the sorest places to get it done. The only solace is that hopefully first time should be the worst and from there should get better just be sure to keep up consistent stretching (when you sitting watching tv at nights is a great chance to get 10-15 min stretching without it cutting into anymore of your day)


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    #1218
    Younganne
    Registered Users Posts: 3,883 ✭✭✭Younganne


    ecoli wrote: »
    Yeah I got the IT band done myself but was told that the calf is among the sorest places to get it done. The only solace is that hopefully first time should be the worst and from there should get better just be sure to keep up consistent stretching (when you sitting watching tv at nights is a great chance to get 10-15 min stretching without it cutting into anymore of your day)

    ye she told me she can't leave the needles in the calf so she finds the "spot" and then jiggles the needles about for a few minutes until she has to take them out. the treatment itself was bearable, it was the pain in my calf after i had difficulty dealing with, as for trying to drive home:eek::eek: its my right calf!!!
    Anyway she did say the first treatment is the worst, but i'm still not looking forward to the next one.... i don't know if she'll be doing the hip and the IT again, i'll jsut have to wait and see!!!! At least i know i'm off work for the next session as its on a weeks holidays and i probably won't be able to drive again....


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    #1219
    BobMac104
    Registered Users Posts: 1,100 ✭✭✭BobMac104


    Name|Weeks Sessions|Weeks Total|Monthly Total|Yearly total|Comments
    BobMac104|5|35.5M|204.85|1301.0|tipping away.|
    rom|||158|1286||
    Younganne|||113.14m|638.04m||
    red face dave ||||341||
    Nules10 ||||276.3|
    run44|||57m|482.1m||
    Scriba |||5|253.84m||
    Emer911||||529.3|

    Ya so tried e.colis speed session the day before the LSR. This was a different story to most sunday morning runs. Did the 6x800 on sat and the usuall 14 route with the club on sunday. The last three miles of the LSR felt like the end of the marathon. I was in bits. the effort to hold 8min pace was so much higher than ususal. when i finished I was thinking what the hell was I thinking doing a speed session the day before a long run. On reflection it was excellent training. Mentally i just wasnt ready for the pain. sunday runs are usually such a nice run with the group but I was only hanging on.HTFU right?


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    #1220
    rom
    Registered Users Posts: 5,135 ✭✭✭rom


    Name|Weeks Sessions|Weeks Total|Monthly Total|Yearly total|Comments
    BobMac104|5|35.5M|204.85|1301.0|tipping away.|
    rom|7|63|43|1367||
    Younganne|||113.14m|638.04m||
    red face dave ||||341||
    Nules10 ||||276.3|
    run44|||57m|482.1m||
    Scriba |||5|253.84m||
    Emer911||||529.3|

    Bobmac: if you are feeling like that then you are doing something wrong.


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    #1221
    Younganne
    Registered Users Posts: 3,883 ✭✭✭Younganne


    Name|Weeks Sessions|Weeks Total|Monthly Total|Yearly total|Comments
    BobMac104|5|35.5M|204.85|1301.0|tipping away.|
    rom|7|63|43|1367||
    Younganne|2|12.05|12.05m|650.09m|Only 2 runs this week after physio treatment. Hoping to complete full week this week in comfort:eek: |
    red face dave ||||341||
    Nules10 ||||276.3|
    run44|||57m|482.1m||
    Scriba |||5|253.84m||
    Emer911||||529.3|

    Bob is your LSR pace not a bit fast, should you be nearer 8.30 pace??


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    #1222
    RayCun
    Registered Users Posts: 15,704 ✭✭✭✭RayCun


    BobMac104 wrote: »
    the usuall 14 route with the club on sunday. The last three miles of the LSR felt like the end of the marathon. I was in bits. the effort to hold 8min pace was so much higher than ususal.

    8 minute pace? What is your marathon target?


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    #1223
    BobMac104
    Registered Users Posts: 1,100 ✭✭✭BobMac104


    re LSR pace, ya this is too fast but its the pace i did all my long runs for cork at plus its what the runnning group do on the sunday morning run. Usually i feel fine on these and Last sunday did 15m at 7:50 and was very comfortable but i have been taking saturdays off up untill now ya see so i reckon thats why i am usually stronger.

    I think Sunday was a combination of : me feeling a bit crap at the moment, running the speed session too hard saturday and then running the LSR too hard on top of it. Go hard or go home though right?

    Marathon target. I must admit the thought of DCM is giving me cold shivers but overall targets for next marathon would be

    1 gold medal 3:14:59
    2 Silver medal 3:19:59
    3 Bronze medal 3:27:00 (anything better than cork really)


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    #1224
    RayCun
    Registered Users Posts: 15,704 ✭✭✭✭RayCun


    It might be that the reason you're feeling a bit crap at the moment is fatigue catching up on you from all those runs...


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    #1225
    BobMac104
    Registered Users Posts: 1,100 ✭✭✭BobMac104


    maybe , I seem to be hitting a bit of a wall in terms of improvement also atm


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    #1226
    rom
    Registered Users Posts: 5,135 ✭✭✭rom


    BobMac104 wrote: »
    maybe , I seem to be hitting a bit of a wall in terms of improvement also atm
    I have similar goal to you and I did my LSR 18M on sat at 9:08 pace. That is with a HR of about 140. Trying best to learn from last year.


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    #1227
    Younganne
    Registered Users Posts: 3,883 ✭✭✭Younganne


    Bob, do you ever use McMillian calculator...here are your training paces using it and remember you should always go on the slower end of the scale

    Recovery Jogs- 9:00 to 9:40

    Long Runs 7:57 to 9:13


    Easy Runs 7:53 to 8:54

    some interesting reading on the site too

    the long run
    Recovery Routine

    I know some people don't rate him much but its always interesting to read other peoples ideas and routines!!


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    #1228
    BobMac104
    Registered Users Posts: 1,100 ✭✭✭BobMac104


    thanks guys! need to change something anyway.


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    #1229
    rom
    Registered Users Posts: 5,135 ✭✭✭rom


    BobMac104 wrote: »
    thanks guys! need to change something anyway.
    In Tim Noakes - Lore of running. Sub 3 marathon runners ran fast less than 6/7 miles 3 times a week and walked long distance on the other days like 16-20 miles approx. Still they were able to manage sub 3 or closer to 2:30 on the day ? There is only one day that you want to do a long run fully at race pace and that is in Dublin :)


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    #1230
    BobMac104
    Registered Users Posts: 1,100 ✭✭✭BobMac104


    rom wrote: »
    ... There is only one day that you want to do a long run fully at race pace and that is in Dublin :)

    cant argue with that Rom. I might pull it way back for a week or two and make out what i wanna do for dublin and start into a 9ish week programme then. Ill see how i feel running this evening.


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    #1231
    ecoli
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,762 ✭✭✭✭ecoli


    Younganne wrote: »
    Bob, do you ever use McMillian calculator...here are your training paces using it and remember you should always go on the slower end of the scale

    Recovery Jogs- 9:00 to 9:40

    Long Runs 7:57 to 9:13


    Easy Runs 7:53 to 8:54

    some interesting reading on the site too

    the long run
    Recovery Routine

    I know some people don't rate him much but its always interesting to read other peoples ideas and routines!!

    I think the calculator and his training idea's are confused here. As a coach he is very well regarded and his training methods are from the Lydiard foundation.

    I do agree with the others though the Long run is too fast with the session effectively you are running back to back hard days which is not what you want

    Few options would be

    1) push the session to friday
    2) drop session altogether and focus on steady runs
    or
    3) slow down the run (not always possible though if you are running with a group)


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