Beef AI/Bulls MEGATHREAD

Never wrestle with pigs · 25-05-2019 10:31am

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

Even the mighty LM2014 is looking like turning out like that too. He's in the bottom 5% on daughters calving, (reliability is low - 51%).

There are certain bull though that buck the trend. On-dit is 5% calving yet, which is average, yet only 3% for daughters calving, which is in the top1% of the breed. So, there are bulls oiut there, where you can have the best of both worlds.

Dubai and hawk the same but they bring good size frame. I think that the issue is worse when they are matched to the wrong cow/heifer. If you put a zag on a handy size heifer and put on 2014 type animal on the daughter you'd end up with a very small framed animal with a lot of muscle. They are all good bulls but have their place.

Personally can't stand zag.

Lady Haywire · 25-05-2019 10:34am

Never wrestle with pigs wrote: »

Dubai and hawk the same but they bring good size frame. I think that the issue is worse when they are matched to the wrong cow/heifer. If you put a zag on a handy size heifer and put on 2014 type animal on the daughter you'd end up with a very small framed animal with a lot of muscle. They are all good bulls but have their place.

Personally can't stand zag.

Hello fellow thinker!

Got chastised by some ass on twitter for using thz over zag. I'd much rather a plainer heifer that can calve instead of a fancy little thing!
Absolutely nothing wrong with thz when used with muscle in the breeding.

Never wrestle with pigs · 25-05-2019 10:39am

Lady Haywire wrote: »

Hello fellow thinker!

Got chastised by some ass on twitter for using thz over zag. I'd much rather a plainer heifer that can calve instead of a fancy little thing!
Absolutely nothing wrong with thz when used with muscle in the breeding.

Thz cows are some of the best I have ever seen. Tall, long (very long), loads of milk and a proper frame to them. You could cross them to something very extreme and they will calve it no bother. I'll get roasted for saying it but I'd rate him better than Cerberus even.

Lady Haywire · 25-05-2019 10:42am

Never wrestle with pigs wrote: »

Thz cows are some of the best I have ever seen. Tall, long (very long), loads of milk and a proper frame to them. You could cross them to something very extreme and they will calve it no bother. I'll get roasted for saying it but I'd rate him better than Cerberus even.

Very underrated imo. Only one I have (for now) is long but small as her mother is small. Yet calved a smashing blue this year & is feeding him well.
Never had an issue with calving him either, consistent with small calves.

Never wrestle with pigs · 25-05-2019 10:46am

Lady Haywire wrote: »

Very underrated imo. Only one I have (for now) is long but small as her mother is small. Yet calved a smashing blue this year & is feeding him well.
Never had an issue with calving him either, consistent with small calves.

Grate value at a tenner too. If you have an iffy one you'd put in two straws no bother.

patsy_mccabe · 25-05-2019 10:58am

Never wrestle with pigs wrote: »

.... Personally can't stand zag.

... I feel that way about Cerberus. The devil incarnate. Seen the madness twice and heard other horror stories from breeders.
You can't beat using a straw or two yourself to get a feel for a bull.

Bova are great value for straws alright. Bought some Gamin and Excel this year. My thinking so far is that Gamin will add muscle and Excel will add frame.

Never wrestle with pigs · 25-05-2019 11:15am

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

... I feel that way about Cerberus. The devil incarnate. Seen the madness twice and heard other horror stories from breeders.
You can't beat using a straw or two yourself to get a feel for a bull.

Bova are great value for straws alright. Bought some Gamin and Excel this year. My thinking so far is that Gamin will add muscle and Excel will add frame.

Ya exactly, gamin a good bull for muscle especially a wide top. You'd want a bit of milk in the cow to keep a heifer though. I've a nice Gamin cow, she's a little low but powerful and not to extreme. She has plenty of milk but out of a good milker. I love Excel and will be using him next year. Loyal a great bull too, easy calving with milk. Won't bring size though.

How did you see the% within breed for zag daughter calving. I can see the %8 daughter calving difficulty but how do you brake that down to the bottom% of the breed? Thanks

patsy_mccabe · 25-05-2019 11:56am

Never wrestle with pigs wrote: »

....
How did you see the% within breed for zag daughter calving. I can see the %8 daughter calving difficulty but how do you brake that down to the bottom% of the breed? Thanks

On the first page, click on 'daughter calving difficulty'. This will open a new page. You'll see 'Percentile rank within breed'. 1 in the case of ZAG.

Lady Haywire · 25-05-2019 2:10pm

He's not been mentioned on this thread before but here's an OOT Torres de l'Ecluse calf off a 2nd calver born this morning (Cow heifer will be 3yrs on 28th May)
Calved herself in half an hour, but has been on hay/minerals for the last month/6weeks.

bogman_bass · 25-05-2019 3:56pm

Anybody try Bova Kaiser?

Bigbird1 · 25-05-2019 5:51pm

Anyone know much about Wilodge Goldcard (lm4050) ?

High bike · 25-05-2019 10:23pm

Question for the pedigree breeders Jackpot or Ironside for a Sympa cow , and why??

patsy_mccabe · 25-05-2019 11:14pm

High bike wrote: »

Question for the pedigree breeders Jackpot or Ironside for a Sympa cow , and why??

I've used Ironside once but cow was very small. Ironside is small too, so result was a very small bull. Jackpot looks great but calving is 9%.

So....:rolleyes:, if cow is smallish use Jackpot but she'd want to be a good calver.

Never wrestle with pigs · 25-05-2019 11:20pm

High bike wrote: »

Question for the pedigree breeders Jackpot or Ironside for a Sympa cow , and why??

Goldie's jackpot? Probably go with him. Better seller and to much Tonka around imo. He looks a right good bull. If the sympa is around the%4 cd you should still end up with a %7 cd bull roughly so easy sold. Depends on the back breeding of the cow though.

High bike · 26-05-2019 12:30am

Am leaning towards Jackpot as she’s plenty big enough and calved on her own last couple of years to wge and agb , anyone know how much the straws are?

patsy_mccabe · 26-05-2019 12:32am

High bike wrote: »

Am leaning towards Jackpot as she’s plenty big enough and calved on her own last couple of years to wge and agb , anyone know how much the straws are?

€55
https://www.progressivegenetics.ie/Store/Detail/GOLDIES-JACKPOT

How did the agb calf work out?

High bike · 26-05-2019 12:38am

Was the Munster catalogue I saw him Patsy but I think they work together anyway.The wge is a nice calf now lovely temperament not like his mother but not over big I think.I’ll stick up a pic if I can get the hang of this new phone.Sorry I thought was the other lad, she’s a nice calf but only 3 weeks

tanko · 26-05-2019 3:03am

Never wrestle with pigs wrote: »

If she came from a good framed cow should be no issue. But these lads going down the %3 easy calving for years and retaining females are breeding themselves into a herd of APZ's and it's the bulls used on them that will get the blame.

This notion that cows bred off easy calving bulls have poor calving ability just isnt true. Bulls ike Highlander, Ionesco, Hauteclair, Pirate, On-Dit, Milbrook Tanko, Palmares, Epson etc are all easy calved and bred cows that are well able to calve. Im sure there are plenty more examples of them.

Sheep breeder · 26-05-2019 8:56am

Have a zag heifer (by mistake) out a very big rocky cow and she is plain enough and tight in the pelvis. A bull that progressive pushed hard and have seen very few good cattle after him.

patsy_mccabe · 26-05-2019 10:10am

Sheep breeder wrote: »

Have a zag heifer (by mistake) out a very big rocky cow and she is plain enough and tight in the pelvis. A bull that progressive pushed hard and have seen very few good cattle after him.

He was easy calving and weanlings looked well so plenty of straws sold of him. It's all about the €€€.

Lady Haywire · 26-05-2019 10:21am

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

He was easy calving and weanlings looked well so plenty of straws sold of him. It's all about the €€€.

What really pissed me off about him was the fact that Gene Ireland lauded themselves for the stars scheme working and that he was an example of that.
Well now I don't play darts but if I throw enough of them at a board I'll hit a bullseye every so often.

High bike · 26-05-2019 12:02pm

They’r a mixed bag all rite have 2 commercial heifers here one nice wide heifer off a sim cow and the other a narrow yoke off a lim cow

Hard Knocks · 26-05-2019 12:28pm

tanko wrote: »

This notion that cows bred off easy calving bulls have poor calving ability just isnt true. Bulls ike Highlander, Ionesco, Hauteclair, Pirate, On-Dit, Milbrook Tanko, Palmares, Epson etc are all easy calved and bred cows that are well able to calve. Im sure there are plenty more examples of them.

The bulls you mention are low on calving difficult and their daughter calving difficultly is very low too.

The problem is some farmers only look at calving difficultly & ignore daughter calving difficultly, keep a heifer for replacement and at calving wonder why there was a problem.

I’d be wary of keeping replacement heifers off the likes off bulls like AA4087 who is 2.7 CD but 8.1 DCD

Hard Knocks · 26-05-2019 5:01pm

How are people finding gold star ludwig?
Thinking of crossing him on a good tall Charolais cow hopefully of a heifer for replacement?

Would many agree?

adne · 26-05-2019 9:06pm

Hard Knocks wrote: »

How are people finding gold star ludwig?
Thinking of crossing him on a good tall Charolais cow hopefully of a heifer for replacement?

Would many agree?

Had similar thinking. Put him on framey milky lms hoping to improve bone and not compromise milk too much

Never wrestle with pigs · 27-05-2019 12:46am

tanko wrote: »

This notion that cows bred off easy calving bulls have poor calving ability just isnt true. Bulls ike Highlander, Ionesco, Hauteclair, Pirate, On-Dit, Milbrook Tanko, Palmares, Epson etc are all easy calved and bred cows that are well able to calve. Im sure there are plenty more examples of them.

Agree with you, but the bulls you mentioned have a good frame and easy calving. Much like a favourite of mine Dubai. Where the issue arises is a tiny easy calving bull with muscle = no frame = no room to calve. They are pushing these bulls as the best and the daughters to be breed with similar. I think that lm2014 will be the same down the line but not as bad as zag, he'll be the next APZ if not worse.

patsy_mccabe · 27-05-2019 9:32pm

MEELICKADUFF LAMBORGHINI

Could you go wrong at €10 a pop. Calving difficulty would worry me.
Sympa x Vantastic from a great cow.

http://www.dunmascgenetics.ie/shop/beef-sires/limousin-bull-society-lamborghini-copy/

https://webapp.icbf.com/bull-search/view/1348200036

Cow at Tullamore;

valtra2 · 27-05-2019 9:56pm

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

MEELICKADUFF LAMBORGHINI

Could you go wrong at €10 a pop. Calving difficulty would worry me.
Sympa x Vantastic from a great cow.

http://www.dunmascgenetics.ie/shop/beef-sires/limousin-bull-society-lamborghini-copy/

https://webapp.icbf.com/bull-search/view/1348200036

Cow at Tullamore;

Put 5 straws on cows this year. Will see how they go next year

patsy_mccabe · 27-05-2019 10:02pm

valtra2 wrote: »

Put 5 straws on cows this year. Will see how they go next year

PB or commercial? +52Kg on carcass weight. Never seen a lim bull that high.

tanko · 27-05-2019 11:15pm

Is she a great cow. There was a lot of raised eyebrows the day she won Tullamore. Heard some unflattering comments about her that day, bad feet and legs apparently.
Is Lamborgini not the bull that couldnt be sold at society sales and ended up in Ai. Anyway, be interesting to see how he does.

Beef AI/Bulls MEGATHREAD

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