Connemarathon 1/4/2012

Krusty_Clown

Running Fool wrote: »

Hi guys,

Doing the Connemara Ultra – my first Ultra.

Running 6 days a week, sometimes 5days. Weekday runs are made up of hour long slow recovery runs and 2 hard sessions. A tempo run one day, hill repeats on another (with a recovery day in between of course!)

So I’m up to my first 20mile run today, the last few weeks have been around 16/18 etc with usually about a 10mile run the day before to try and have back t back runs.

So, to plan what long runs to do between now and April 1st – there are 8 weekends between now and then, that’s including taper. I want to do the long runs and keep back to back ones too, but how much is too much? Here’s a sample, all advice appreciated.

What I really want and what i seem to read in most places is that the 2 most important workouts are back to back 20milers and also a 30 mile run. I dunno if I have time to fit them all in the weeks I have left though..............





WEEK 88 - DONE 20 - TODAY
WEEK 715 25
WEEK 68 15
WEEK 518 22
WEEK 411 30
WEEK 39 8
WEEK 26 8
WEEK 14 3
RACE

I would have thought that an back to back 18 and 22 would be a perfectly good substitute for a back to back 20-20. Your taper seems a little on the generous side. Would you not go for a 15-15 in Week 3?

There's a much larger gathering of Connemera ultra runners in the Connemarathon thread (Events sub-forum).

RayCun

Merged threads (just to make Krusty's comment look odd)

Running Fool

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

I would have thought that an back to back 18 and 22 would be a perfectly good substitute for a back to back 20-20. Your taper seems a little on the generous side. Would you not go for a 15-15 in Week 3?

There's a much larger gathering of Connemera ultra runners in the Connemarathon thread (Events sub-forum).

Yeah as regards taper being generous im just wary of overdoing it so any advice on anything like a 15 - 15 on wk 3 would be great.

Since there's lots of 50 mile and 50k programs but no specific 39 ones I kinda created a frankenstein plan from various programs.

With wk 4, the 11 - 30 , is the 11 too small a run the day before ? Thought I might be cautious since 30 is the big one!

Thanks

menoscemo

Hey Folks, for any of the Ultra Runners based in Dublin who are wondering about how they are going to do their 30 miler this may be of interest to you:
A few are organising a 30 mile group run from Howth to Bray on saturday 3rd march and it looks like we have 10 or so interested at the moment. Some of us are getting the dart from Bray and running back others are travelling from another dart station and getting a dart home from Bray afterwards.
As we are passing loads of Dart Stations along the way you don't have to do the full 30 so some of the full runners might be interested too?

Anyway the plan is to meet at 11am at Howth Dart Station for the start of the run and take a conservative pace to suit all. Hope to see a few of you there!!

Canine Marathoner

TB - cheers for that, will take the advice on board

menoscemo - sounds perfect; hope to see you in Howth on the 3rd

menoscemo

Canine Marathoner wrote: »

menoscemo - sounds perfect; hope to see you in Howth on the 3rd

Nice one. Bring some money as we can stop at a few shops for water and chocolate along the way. Maybe PM me closer to the time for a mobile number in case there's a problem on the morning.

EauRouge79

I was half thinking of backing out of the ultra but had a good week last week. Managed 10/20/10miles over the weekend which to be honest is pretty good mileage for me.
Hopefully will make that 10/20/14 next week and so on....

Looking forward to a visit to the physio tomorrow for a once over. Tea/chocolate and telly tonight.

Marthastew

Canine Marathoner wrote: »

...but did get a lone marathon-distance done...a weird feeling finishing it with no one there to cheer - some soaked people standing at a bus stop looking in a perplexed way at the nutter who raised his arms in the air in triumph as he passed a lamppost marking the end line...
/

congratulations on another marathon:)
Conn will be my first Ultra so unfortunately I have no words of wisdom for you apart from good luck with the rest of the training
as Tfb says if you've a marathon in a training run under your belt, you're in good shape
Raycun very kindly pointed me in the direction of last year's thread a while ago, some good tips on there, reassuring and scary at the same time.

RayCun wrote: »

This thread should be useful

ray lanigan

4 weeks out last year from the connemara ultra i did 31mile on sat,and 27mile on the sunday,then 8mile mon,10mile tues,15mile wed,12 mile thur,then got injured for 8 days didnt run a inch,that left me 2 weeks out and did 22mile sat and 20mile sunday,and more or less didnt run much up to the race and had a great run sub 5hr,hope it helps in some way.:)

EauRouge79

ray lanigan wrote: »

4 weeks out last year from the connemara ultra i did 31mile on sat,and 27mile on the sunday,then 8mile mon,10mile tues,15mile wed,12 mile thur,then got injured for 8 days didnt run a inch,that left me 2 weeks out and did 22mile sat and 20mile sunday,and more or less didnt run much up to the race and had a great run sub 5hr,hope it helps in some way.:)

Sweet Jesus....im shagged tired after reading that.

menoscemo

EauRouge79 wrote: »

Sweet Jesus....im shagged tired after reading that.

He's scaring all of us. I was only able for about 8 miles the day after my 30 miler.

TFBubendorfer

ray lanigan wrote: »

4 weeks out last year from the connemara ultra i did 31mile on sat,and 27mile on the sunday,then 8mile mon,10mile tues,15mile wed,12 mile thur,then got injured for 8 days didnt run a inch,that left me 2 weeks out and did 22mile sat and 20mile sunday,and more or less didnt run much up to the race and had a great run sub 5hr,hope it helps in some way.:)

I did similar stuff before Dingle in 2010, and while I did not get injured I am now pretty sure that I would have run faster with a more relaxed approach.

Still, savage end result.

RoyMcC

griffin100 wrote: »

Is there are sort of consensus as to how much longer the full would take when compared to a flat course?

I don't know about concensus but I'd say 4-5 minutes longer for the Half, therefore about 10 minutes for the Full (which I haven't done in Conn).

ray lanigan

TFBubendorfer that was my relaxed approach haha,i almost wasnt going to go when i got injured for 8 days because i was fretting that i hadnt done enough miles haha, i better not say what miles im doing this time around,i would recomend a 30 miler 4 weeks out and another 30 miler 3 weeks out,then do 75% of your mileage and 50% the week before and just rest up the week of the race,one or two easy runs and you b raring to go,i have found that i but on a lot of weight during the taper so i dont realy bother anymore just the week of connemara,for anyone that hasnt done this race before it will be a magical day,without a doubt the best race i have ever been to,everything about it is brilliant,and its not as hilly as they tell you so dont get scared,just turn up,run relaxed and happy and enjoy the challenge.tfbubendorfar are you doing the dingle 50mile this year,i have never done it but cant wait to run it this year,keep up the great work everyone:)

TFBubendorfer

I'm doing the 50k in Donadea next week, that will be my one and only really long training run. We can compare notes in Connemara.

Yes, I'm planning on doing the ultra in Dingle again, but much will depend on how quickly I can recover from a certain race in July.

menoscemo

RoyMcC wrote: »

I don't know about concensus but I'd say 4-5 minutes longer for the Half, therefore about 10 minutes for the Full (which I haven't done in Conn).

The first half of the full is dead flat, the only hilly part of the Full (or Ultra) is the part that follows the half course, i.e. the last 13.1 miles. Therefore you should not lose anymore time for the full than you would for the half.

TFBubendorfer

menoscemo wrote: »

The first half of the full is dead flat, the only hilly part of the Full (or Ultra) is the part that follows the half course, i.e. the last 13.1 miles. Therefore you should not lose anymore time for the full than you would for the half.

That's a bit of an exaggeration. You forgot the climb at marathon mile 7 (up to the "Stop and Pray" church) and the subsequent drop into Leenane. But I agree on the basic sentiment, it shouldn't really add any more time.

menoscemo

TFBubendorfer wrote: »

That's a bit of an exaggeration. You forgot the climb at marathon mile 7 (up to the "Stop and Pray" church) and the subsequent drop into Leenane. But I agree on the basic sentiment, it shouldn't really add any more time.

Yeah but there's bits of climbs on any marathon course and that climb is no worse than the ordinary. I did it at mile 20 of the ultra last year and didn't really notice it.

belcarra

menoscemo wrote: »

Yeah but there's bits of climbs on any marathon course and that climb is no worse than the ordinary. I did it at mile 20 of the ultra last year and didn't really notice it.

It may be negligible in comparison to the big two from Leenane onwards but the middle third of the Ultra route should definitely not be claimed as flat imo. To do so may hinder peoples day by presenting them with something other than a Berlin-style flat route.

The official profile is here. These undulations can take a bit out of people if they are unprepared, meaning the real hills will cause extra strain on the body, thereby leading to at least a couple of extra mins compounded to the 5 mins if you were doing the Half course only. Even the downhill into Leenane can lead to people going too fast on this section causing issues later.

Izoard

menoscemo wrote: »

Yeah but there's bits of climbs on any marathon course and that climb is no worse than the ordinary. I did it at mile 20 of the ultra last year and didn't really notice it.

Why does that not reassure me, at all?

menoscemo

belcarra wrote: »

It may be negligible in comparison to the big two from Leenane onwards but the middle third of the Ultra route should definitely not be claimed as flat imo. To do so may hinder peoples day by presenting them with something other than a Berlin-style flat route.

The official profile is here. These undulations can take a bit out of people if they are unprepared, meaning the real hills will cause extra strain on the body, thereby leading to at least a couple of extra mins compounded to the 5 mins if you were doing the Half course only. Even the downhill into Leenane can lead to people going too fast on this section causing issues later.

Absolutely agree that if you have gone out too fast the hills at the end will hit you hard.
But the hill at mile 7 of the full/mile 20 of the ultra is not that bad. I just checked my garmin Link from last year and that mile was only 10 seconds slower than the mile previous and following and my HR only rose during it by 3 bpm. I had heard about that hill being the 'third toughie' but I can assure you that the 4 of us running together were surprised by how tame it was.

Marthastew

ray lanigan wrote: »

for anyone that hasnt done this race before it will be a magical day,without a doubt the best race i have ever been to,everything about it is brilliant,and its not as hilly as they tell you so dont get scared,just turn up,run relaxed and happy and enjoy the challenge.:)

When you put it that way it all sounds so easy.... Just the small matter of all those back to back long runs between now and then.

+1 on the savage result:D

ray lanigan

if you dont do some hill training for this you will find the last 3rd tough,its just a case of getting your pace right and sticking to it,its so easy to get caught up with it all at the start and go out to hard,and if you have done some hill training then its no problem,prepair for the worst and everything else is easy:)

Oisin11178

menoscemo wrote: »

Absolutely agree that if you have gone out too fast the hills at the end will hit you hard.
But the hill at mile 7 of the full/mile 20 of the ultra is not that bad. I just checked my garmin Link from last year and that mile was only 10 seconds slower than the mile previous and following and my HR only rose during it by 3 bpm. I had heard about that hill being the 'third toughie' but I can assure you that the 4 of us running together were surprised by how tame it was.

I can confirm this as i was in that group of 4. It was a minor blip that didnt slow us down and a nice few downhill miles just after it were grand. If that hill troubles you, you are in deep deep trouble for the last third tbh.

belcarra

If the Marathon consisted of the first two-thirds of the ultra I think most people would say it's not bad at all, probably akin to Dublin in my opinion, but definitely not pancake flat.
I'm just trying to say that it's not exactly a walk in the park, especially when you have the final third looming over you.

Canine Marathoner

quiet on here! i notice italian sky will be covering the ultra...

got a testing, hilly 20-miler in today - will be out tomorrow on the same route to make it a good back-to-backer...

but does anyone have any advice on running downhill? i actually find it tougher than running the uphill sections, especially if the descent is very acute...it's a real thump, thump thingy...

upper body tilted forward? stride length? can't seem to grasp it...very awkward...my uphill stuff has improved substantially...but I'm only gaining like ten secs or so per km on downhill return...is such a meagre 'gain' normal?:cool:

brownian

Canine Marathoner wrote: »

quiet on here! i notice italian sky will be covering the ultra...

got a testing, hilly 20-miler in today - will be out tomorrow on the same route to make it a good back-to-backer...

but does anyone have any advice on running downhill? i actually find it tougher than running the uphill sections, especially if the descent is very acute...it's a real thump, thump thingy...

upper body tilted forward? stride length? can't seem to grasp it...very awkward...my uphill stuff has improved substantially...but I'm only gaining like ten secs or so per km on downhill return...is such a meagre 'gain' normal?:cool:

My two cent - bend the knees a lot going down, back straight, core well engaged (tight stomach muscles, sort of).

It's hard to get a lot of value from the hills, esp in Conn, as you're so tired coming down the only real drop (from top of HOTW)... coming down really hard here means that you land "splat" on the flat, with a mile to go to the end and your legs in ribbons - better to keep it controlled and mind your quads, so that you can fly the last bit....

Melanoma

Hi Maybe look up some info on chi running. I think they said to lean back when downhill and forward uphill. I get more power uphill by leaning forward. You got to be careful going down hill time gained might not be a lot but its a good break so you gain in that your more able after this. I done a super fast downhill on trail but was in bits for a week last summer. So much fun though.

I am a novice to this but happy out back from injury this week, gonna run my first marathon in target time slow but got to start somewhere.

Marthastew

Canine Marathoner wrote: »

quiet on here! i notice italian sky will be covering the ultra...

got a testing, hilly 20-miler in today - will be out tomorrow on the same route to make it a good back-to-backer...

but does anyone have any advice on running downhill? i actually find it tougher than running the uphill sections, especially if the descent is very acute...it's a real thump, thump thingy...

upper body tilted forward? stride length? can't seem to grasp it...very awkward...my uphill stuff has improved substantially...but I'm only gaining like ten secs or so per km on downhill return...is such a meagre 'gain' normal?:cool:

Well done on the hilly 20 miler.

In my very limited experience of running downhill I've picked up the followiing tips;
the first thing you should try and do is use the time to relax and assess how you're feeling, this doesn't apply so much to training runs as it does to during races. Loosen your shoulders and shake out your hands. If you are relaxed you are more likely to run naturally.
Concentrate on keeping a very strong core and aim to have your body perpendicular to the road service, imagine you are leaning from your ankles.
Stride length should be slightly longer than usual.
Try to be as light on your feet as possible.

Another way to look at it is to try and remember how much fun you had running downhill as a kid, with no fear of falling:)

Your quads will still get a bit of a bashing even if you apply the above but hopefully not too much.

menoscemo

Just saw this on The connmarathon website. It seems the world 100k champion will be running the ultra. He is some man. According to the article he ran 16 sub 2:20 marathons in 2010 :eek:

Looks like I'll have my work cut out to win this one :P

World Champion to run Connemara
Fri, 17/02/2012
Giorgio Calcaterra confirmed starter for 2012 Connemara Ultra Marathon

The current World 100K Champion, Italian Giorgio Calcaterra is a confirmed starter of the 39.3 mile Ultra in Connemara on April 1st next.

Calcaterra won Gold at the 100K world championships in Holland last September in a time 6 hours 27 minutes. Speaking about his upcoming trip to Connemara, Giorgio said "Running for me is a passion, an instinct, but also a magnificent way to see new places and get to know new friends. My friend Simone told me about the Connemarathon and what a wonderful race it is, set in a great place with open and big spaces, something that is missing in my home city in Italy. I know I will enjoy this race in particular, because competing in an event of this distance, for me is the right compromise between speed and endurance and I am sure this will help me to have a fantastic day for my first trip to the West of Ireland".

Race Director Ray O'Connor said "Having a world champion in Connemara is a dream come true, but welcoming Giorgio Calcaterra is even better - the man is a legend, and it will be a pleasure to see him mingling and preparing like everyone else to take on the legendary Connemarathon Ultra Course. He says he's confident of breaking 4 hours - we'll just have to see what Connemara can throw at him. This will add an extra edge to the excitement everyone will feel in the buildup to the big day".

Giorgio has run over 100 marathons and holds a personal best time of 2 hours 13 minutes. In 2000 he ran and incredible 16 marathons under 2 hours 20 minutes a record that he is particularly proud of.

Giorgio won't have it all his own way though as the current course record holder David Kirkland from the UK makes a return trip to Connemara. Having already posted a super fast 4 hours and 3 minutes in 2010, David is also confident of breaking the illusive sub 4. Whatever happens, It will be an epic race

http://www.connemarathon.com/world-champion-run-connemara