Occupy Galway Group (mod note added)

inisboffin

Updates now on how this relates to the London one. Again people are very divided. The Canon of St Paul's has resigned in protest at church's attitude towards demonstrators

TerrorFirmer

celty wrote: »

I realised capitalism does not work earlier this year when I met an American military person on holidays in Switzerland who started giving out about Irish banks when he heard my accent.

The 'poor sod', on leave from terrorising people in Iraq, told me he lost a lot of money on AIB and BOI shares. I asked him had he ever been to Ireland or did he know anything about Ireland, but he hadn't.

All he knew is that he got 'burned' because he speculated on what was supposed to be a booming investment.

The problem is that people like him (shareholders) are deemed to be more important than the people who actually work for companies and actually 'make' products.

So fair play to the people in the tents at Eyre Square.

At least they stand for something other than cronyism, corruption, offering builders access to Government ministers, and laughing at the ordinary people outside.

You really had to add that part in. :rolleyes:

padraig71

Wompa1 wrote: »

Capital being generated by the many multi-nationals in Galway Medtronic, Boston Scientific, Avaya, HP, SAP etc.

Galway thrives off it

…until said multinationals decide to up sticks and relocate somewhere with cheaper labour or less regulation or lower taxes. Talk Talk, Intel, Aviva, Thomas Cook ring any bells? These foreign-based transnational corporations have no loyalty to Ireland (or any country, for that matter) or its workers, they are interested only in maximising profits for their shareholders. And Irish governments, while offering a low corporation tax and lax regulation, are not only failing to invest in indigenous and sustainable Irish enterprise but actively helping these companies to avoid paying tax in the countries where they do most of their business. Obama actually tried to curb US companies' use of subsidiaries in offshore tax havens in 2009 for this reason.

celty

Well, he was on leave from Iraq ... so he told me!

Maybe he's just out there spreading the joys of the wonders of capitalism among the willing locals ... in their tents.

celty

Pivot AC, the company which announced 100 jobs for Galway this week, have actually announced that they picked Galway over the US as a base because of our lower corporate tax rate.

I'm not complaining about those jobs. It is good news for Galway and we need it. But the system is wrong. It's the system which sees companies set up call centres in India because they are much cheaper than Knocknacarra, for example.

celty

celty wrote: »

But the system is wrong. It's the system which sees companies set up call centres in India because they are much cheaper than Knocknacarra, for example.

While at the same time engineers in Cisco and Avaya in Oranmore and Mervue are creating the software products that enable those jobs to be moved.

We are a small open economy very much dependent on exports. For a very long time the only factory in town was the hat factory on Bohermore (It eventually became Claddagh minerals and was knocked to build the Cuirt Seoige apartments) but things move on.

I feel bad for the people who might lose their jobs but we can't take the benefits of globalisation - jobs created by exporting companies - and object to the costs - call centre jobs moving to India

Short article on Cisco in Galway

Head The Wall

padraig71 wrote: »

…until said multinationals decide to up sticks and relocate somewhere with cheaper labour or less regulation or lower taxes. Talk Talk, Intel, Aviva, Thomas Cook ring any bells? These foreign-based transnational corporations have no loyalty to Ireland (or any country, for that matter) or its workers, they are interested only in maximising profits for their shareholders. And Irish governments, while offering a low corporation tax and lax regulation, are not only failing to invest in indigenous and sustainable Irish enterprise but actively helping these companies to avoid paying tax in the countries where they do most of their business. Obama actually tried to curb US companies' use of subsidiaries in offshore tax havens in 2009 for this reason.

It's a bigger fool that believes any company has loyalty to anyone but it's shareholders, they are in business to make money and thats it.

It would be interesting to hear your alternative to this, should we kick out these companies? What then


I can guarantee all the people complaining about capitalism are benefiting from the gains capitalism has made to their lives, if ye don't like being born and living in a capitalist country then ye have a choice - feck off to China, North Korea, Cuba etc

Chances are ye will decide to stay and try and fight the system from the "inside" :rolleyes: all the while enjoying life in a first world country.

padraig71

Head The Wall wrote: »

It's a bigger fool that believes any company has loyalty to anyone but it's shareholders, they are in business to make money and thats it.

It would be interesting to hear your alternative to this, should we kick out these companies? What then


I can guarantee all the people complaining about capitalism are benefiting from the gains capitalism has made to their lives, if ye don't like being born and living in a capitalist country then ye have a choice - feck off to China, North Korea, Cuba etc

Chances are ye will decide to stay and try and fight the system from the "inside" :rolleyes: all the while enjoying life in a first world country.

I don't have any easy answers. I don't believe there are any, but it is certainly beneficial for our society that more and more people are questioning the dysfunctional status quo and trying to come up with viable alternatives. Whatever alternative we come up with, it will have to be sustainable and fit for a post-carbon economy, and conducive to a more equal society that puts less value on material wealth and more on intrinsic goods such as health and happiness.

In any realistic scenario, we will have to reduce our material consumption, as will all developed economies, in order to give space for developing economies to grow and still remain within safe ecological limits. It is important to recognise that this does not necessarily equate to a reduction in our quality of life.

Some ideas worth considering - most of which will only work with concerted international will, admittedly, but such will is clearly there among many citizens of the world, as these protests demonstrate:

- A green New Deal akin to the New Deal of the 1930s
- A 'Tobin' tax on financial transactions
- Making corporations pay tax to countries in proportion to where they are most profitable
- Prohibit the use of tax havens - preferably, recognise these places as the pariahs they really are
- Ensure employment for all by reducing working hours in line with increases in labour productivity
- Put the monetary system on a sound footing by replacing fractional reserve banking, regulating derivatives etc
- Nationalise productive industries such as energy, not only insolvent banks

BTW, it is worth pointing out to all the kneejerk apologists for capitalism that the policy of state intervention to keep zombie banks on life support goes directly against the tenets of capitalism. In a capitalist system there are no corporations that are 'too big to fail'.

As to your final comment, it does not make any sense. Of course I am going to stay here and try to make the change I want to see in this country. That is democracy! Do you have something against that? Maybe you're the one who would be happier in a country such as China or North Korea.

Danakin

Do people here believe that Capitalism and, in particular, unrestrained Capitalism is flawless?

Personally, I think that the recent preference for vast amounts of deregulation of markets and removal of constraints on corporations has been damaging to Ireland, Europe, the US and many other countries around the world.

The Occupy movement began in America where income inequality has reached horrendous levels and where almost 25 million people cannot find a full-time job while the top percentiles have seen their wealth grow to stratospheric proportions.

Ireland continues to endure a raft of austerity measures, with more to come, due to a bailout of corrupt and irresponsible financial institutions.

Therefore, in solidarity, a group of people decide to protest about this in Galway and the response from many is dismissive, insulting and centres on the fact that they can't criticise Capitalism because they have benefited from it.

That is grossly unfair. A fairer and more equitable Capitalism is possible. Punishment of financial institutions for their crimes is possible. A fierce renegotiation of bailout conditions for Ireland is possible.

Some protestors may want to go further and challenge the entire system itself. That is their right and in the current situation is perfectly understandable.

I hope they stay.

orangebud

was there today at lunch time there were a group of them talking was very interesting but i dont want to sound rude but 1 of occupiers came up to me and he stank so much i had to leave

best of luck, feck the system & get showers installed

cheesemaker

yawn

Occupy is protesting against manipulation of the market not the free market. If it was a free market, we wouldn't be handing over $1,000,000,000 to banks we own nothing to. That billion is just over half the cost of the new Mater children's hospital with a few pound to spare for our own record breaker on Newcastle Road.

If you think it's capitalism we're living under, you best go find something else to praise.

TerrorFirmer

celty wrote: »

Well, he was on leave from Iraq ... so he told me!

Maybe he's just out there spreading the joys of the wonders of capitalism among the willing locals ... in their tents.

That's hardly an admission of 'terrorizing people in iraq'. In fact, that's your capitalist system at blame, so why blame the lowly soldier, who, for risking his safety, potentially risking his very existence despite a fairly low wage package, why suject him to that bracket in which he falls into the 'ruthless capitalist' type? You do realize, that personal within the US military, are not particularly well paid. In fact, a great deal of them, join the army in the hope of benefiting from the 'you serve -we educate you' initiative. A large draw to the US military is the access to the healthcare/education programs available.

Why you would choose to belittle that as if they were all, apparently, war mongering scum, is beyond me. Because I know, that if Irish people were in the same situation, they'd take it, and they have done.

By the way. A lot more Irish individuals, let alone the US military, invested in Irish banks.

TerrorFirmer

Danakin wrote: »

Do people here believe that Capitalism and, in particular, unrestrained Capitalism is flawless?

No-one, least at all the intellectuals, believe Capitalism is 'flawless', as you put it. It's not about perfection, it's about finding the best system that fits the human race, fits the general majority. And I do believe, that capitalism fits that bracket. The alternative systems - valiant as they are in paper form - rely on human nature and unfortunately, as we know, human nature is entirely corruptible and susceptible to human greed. That's not to say that current systems are not without greed, but, in our lifetime, alternative systems will never work.

I've been reading and hearing a lot of how people are bring food and supplies to the people involved in the occupy eyre square protest and i find it all rather sad when you consider the many homeless we have in this city who can't move home to their warm bed once the protest is over. Of people want to help then help those most in need, those who will spend all of winter alone on the streets without the option of heading back home.

snubbleste

Ex-auctioneer and serial landlord 'I hate trees' fianna fáil councillor calls for removal of the protesters

A city councillor has called for the immediate removal of the ‘Occupy Galway’ protestors from Eyre Square, warning they could be a target for thuggery on Hallowe’en Night.
Councillor Mike Crowe called on the Gardaí and Council to move them on, saying they have created a terrible eyesore in a city focal point.
“If people park their car illegally, they’d be fined. If people dumped illegally, they’d be fined. These people shouldn’t be treated any differently to any other citizens. The law has to be applied equally to everybody.
“This has to come to an end. We respect their point of view, but society should not treat them any differently,” said Cllr Crowe. http://www.galwaynews.ie/22371-ex-mayor-urges-removal-eyre-square-%E2%80%98eyesore%E2%80%99

Funny how he's not objecting to some of the permanent architectural eyesores around.

biko

Every night they camp out is another night Crowe tosses and turns in his bed.

"they could be a target for thuggery" and should therefore be removed? How about deploying a car there then?
You need police in the square anyway Mike or haven't you noticed the news about attacks?

Deleted User wrote: »

I've been reading and hearing a lot of how people are bring food and supplies to the people involved in the occupy eyre square protest and i find it all rather sad when you consider the many homeless we have in this city who can't move home to their warm bed once the protest is over. Of people want to help then help those most in need, those who will spend all of winter alone on the streets without the option of heading back home.

That doesn't mean the homeless gets not help or that we should not give to the occupy group.
I wouldn't be surprised if the people giving to occupy are the same people giving to homeless.
It also wouldn't surprise me if the people not giving to occupy are also not giving to homeless.
What do you think?

biko

biko wrote: »

That doesn't mean the homeless gets not help or that we should not give to the occupy group.
I wouldn't be surprised if the people giving to occupy are the same people giving to homeless.
It also wouldn't surprise me if the people not giving to occupy are also not giving to homeless.
What do you think?

I wasn't saying that the homeless get no help rather that a lot of people who have never given anything to the homeless are suddenly falling all over themselves to help the occupy Galway group. I know one lad who is asking for donations so that he can buy tents and food to give to the Occupy group. We suggested he give any money he raises to a shelter or charity who helps the homeless but he refused.

The people who are currently camped out in Eyre Square can come the worst of Winter head home to their warm beds unlike the many homeless across the city who have nowhere to go. Sure they may get a bed in a shelter but many of them will be sleeping in door ways when the temperatures drop below freezing. They would benefit far more from any handouts than the occupy group.

Captain Darling

Fair play to them for putting themselves out there. I like going up and having a read of the posters and stuff up there at every lunch time.

Bit of a pong hanging around there though.

celty

Bring back the Fianna Fail tent at Ballybrit then, Mike. It's just what Ireland needs.

Captain Darling

Captain Darling wrote: »

Fair play to them for putting themselves out there. I like going up and having a read of the posters and stuff up there at every lunch time.

Bit of a pong hanging around there though.

Personal hygiene does not seem to be something that most of them are concerned about.

Last day I was passing I got chatting to one of teh girls there and the smell was quite hard to stomach, almost as bad as her math skills. She told me that she was part of the 1% who was fighting the 99% on the behalf of the 1% not protesting who were getting screwed.

celty

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

That's hardly an admission of 'terrorizing people in iraq'. In fact, that's your capitalist system at blame, so why blame the lowly soldier, who, for risking his safety, potentially risking his very existence despite a fairly low wage package, why suject him to that bracket in which he falls into the 'ruthless capitalist' type? You do realize, that personal within the US military, are not particularly well paid. In fact, a great deal of them, join the army in the hope of benefiting from the 'you serve -we educate you' initiative. A large draw to the US military is the access to the healthcare/education programs available.

Why you would choose to belittle that as if they were all, apparently, war mongering scum, is beyond me. Because I know, that if Irish people were in the same situation, they'd take it, and they have done.

By the way. A lot more Irish individuals, let alone the US military, invested in Irish banks.

At the risk of going off topic, this guy was no 'ordinary soldier' in Iraq. He was a high up miltiary adviser and clearly had a lot of money to 'invest' in Irish banks. My point is that's capitalism. The guy had never been to Ireland, he knew nothing about our country, and yet standing at a bike hire place in Switzerland he was able to give me a lecture about how Irish banks had cost him a lot of money in shares.

Captain Darling

Deleted User wrote: »

Personal hygiene does not seem to be something that most of them are concerned about.

Last day I was passing I got chatting to one of teh girls there and the smell was quite hard to stomach, almost as bad as her math skills. She told me that she was part of the 1% who was fighting the 99% on the behalf of the 1% not protesting who were getting screwed.

But 60% of the time, it works all the time.

zarquon

I am of the 99% who washes myself. The protesters are the 1% who do not wash. Let's occupy their showers. How dare the 1% hold on to a surplus of showers and washing facilities they don't use while the 99% queue for bathrooms. #OccupyShowers.

celty

celty wrote: »

At the risk of going off topic, this guy was no 'ordinary soldier' in Iraq. He was a high up miltiary adviser and clearly had a lot of money to 'invest' in Irish banks. My point is that's capitalism. The guy had never been to Ireland, he knew nothing about our country, and yet standing at a bike hire place in Switzerland he was able to give me a lecture about how Irish banks had cost him a lot of money in shares.

I take it that he identified himself as a " high up military adviser" to you?

He has every entitlement to complain about losing money, I imagine that if you had invested in American banks and lost money that you would be far from happy. Hell I have complained a lot about the banks over here as I lost money which I had invested in stocks, does the mere fact that he is not Irish mean that he cannot complain about losing money in Irish banks but us Irish can?

zarquon

Deleted User wrote: »

I wasn't saying that the homeless get no help rather that a lot of people who have never given anything to the homeless are suddenly falling all over themselves to help the occupy Galway group. I know one lad who is asking for donations so that he can buy tents and food to give to the Occupy group. We suggested he give any money he raises to a shelter or charity who helps the homeless but he refused.

The people who are currently camped out in Eyre Square can come the worst of Winter head home to their warm beds unlike the many homeless across the city who have nowhere to go. Sure they may get a bed in a shelter but many of them will be sleeping in door ways when the temperatures drop below freezing. They would benefit far more from any handouts than the occupy group.

People won't give to the homeless because there is nothing in it for them. It is a selfless act with no reward other than knowing a good deed is done for someone else. People are giving to the occupy Galway group because they have a vested interested in helping their own financial position in the long run......and before there are any clever responses like biko's above, YES, i am involved in various charity work with the homeless in Galway through the years and have given plenty to the cause and i stand by my stance that i would give a tent and some food to a homeless person much quicker than i'd give it to a protester.

zarquon

zarquon wrote: »

People won't give to the homeless because there is nothing in it for them. It is a selfless act with no reward other than knowing a good deed is done for someone else. People are giving to the occupy Galway group because they have a vested interested in helping their own financial position in the long run......and before there are any clever responses like biko's above, YES, i am involved in various charity work with the homeless in Galway through the years and have given plenty to the cause and i stand by my stance that i would give a tent and some food to a homeless person much quicker than i'd give it to a protester.

Anyone who thinks that the protestors in Eyre Square are going to accomplish anything is deluded. Far too many people seem to think that this group is going to make the slightest difference, the protests elsewhere are gaining a lot of media attention due to where they are protesting. The group in Galway are making no difference other than to stork their own egos. There's a reason that there has been so little media coverage of the group in Galway and it's not because the media are ignoring it rather that it's simply accomplishing nothing.

Danakin

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

No-one, least at all the intellectuals, believe Capitalism is 'flawless', as you put it. It's not about perfection, it's about finding the best system that fits the human race, fits the general majority. And I do believe, that capitalism fits that bracket. The alternative systems - valiant as they are in paper form - rely on human nature and unfortunately, as we know, human nature is entirely corruptible and susceptible to human greed. That's not to say that current systems are not without greed, but, in our lifetime, alternative systems will never work.

My point is that people are attacking the protestors by saying that they are seeking the downfall of capitalism, which as you say, is currently the only system that appears likely to be sustainable.

Reform of that system and a desire to put in provisions to make it more equitable are genuine aims. Capitalism is flawed and by drawing attention to those flaws, be it in Galway or elsewhere, people hope they can change the conversation and create momentum for change.

The other idea that these protestors in Galway cannot change anything and therefore should go home is also unfair.

The protest in Galway (and Dublin) is predominantly about solidarity with those in the US and Europe. It's an effort to show that there are people everywhere who agree with their intentions and support their commitment to protest.

ultain

Occupy galway is primarily against how this country & its people have been sold out to Europe by the goverment of IRELAND

ultain

Deleted User wrote: »

There's a reason that there has been so little media coverage of the group in Galway

Yeah..their a sleep on the job, Michelle shocked dropped in yesterday for a bite to eat & Gave all involved some warm words of support & her solidarity to all Occupy Groups around the country & the World.

zarquon

ultain wrote: »

Yeah..their a sleep on the job, Michelle shocked dropped in yesterday for a bite to eat & Gave all involved some warm words of support & her solidarity to all Occupy Groups around the country & the World.

WOW, so you mean that someone who was a C List musician 25 years ago who no one has heard of since dropped in for a bite to eat with the protesters!!! Well i take it all back so! Clearly the protests have been a monumental success based on this event. :rolleyes:If that is seriously the only highlight you can mention then that just shows how pointless the whole Occupy Galway thing is.