Bohemian FC well and truly fooked?

TangyZizzle

http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/league-of-ireland/bohs-stock-plummets-as-financial-headache-takes-its-toll-2886834.html

Bohs' stock plummets as financial headache takes its toll

Sunday September 25 2011

WHILE Shamrock Rovers are looking forward to banking a €1m profit from their Europa League exploits, their great Northside rivals Bohemians are facing a race against time to come up with €120,000 to preserve their Premier status.

Rovers, who play Tottenham Hotspur on Thursday in the second of their Europa League group games, are guaranteed a happy end to their financial year, but a meeting of Bohemians members last Monday was told that a sum of €120,000 was needed by the end of November to ensure that the club's liabilities with its playing staff were met.

Failure to do so can lead to penalties, among which is the possibility of relegation to the First Division. Although Bohs have 400 members, only 80 or so attended the meeting, which seems to indicate that they are suffering from donor fatigue, as this was but the latest in a series of meetings, at which gloomy reports on the club's finances have been presented.

In addition to the €120,000 needed by the end of November, there is also the much bigger sum of €4m owed to Zurich Bank, which is due to be paid next June.

This sum originates from the club's deal with Danninger, the developer which was to buy Dalymount Park and build a new stadium in return. The borrowings from Zurich were based on that deal. Danninger is now in NAMA.

The ground is the club's only asset, but they own it outright, even though part of the security on the Zurich loan is on part of the ground.

Various valuations have been sought for the ground, and all indicate that the club's assets exceed their liabilities. However, realising those assets in the present climate could be another matter.

The immediate problem is caused by a cash flow which is less than budgeted for. Gate receipts are down, despite the club's fine showing in the league and reaching the semi-final of the FAI Cup. Their quarter-final replay with Dundalk attracted just over 1,100 patrons last Tuesday, 300 more than were at the league game between the same teams the week before.

There was a strangely muted atmosphere throughout the cup tie, in sharp contrast to recent times when the Jodi Stand would be full to its 2,500 capacity, and the stadium would be rocking.

The lack of atmosphere seemed to affect the players, as this was one of the poorer games at Dalymount this season.

Bohs benefited from a clause in the Stephen Ward transfer to Wolves when he made his competitive debut for Ireland recently, and they will also benefit in similar fashion if young Wolves full-back Matt Doherty, who played in the Carling Cup last week, makes a certain number of appearances, but that won't be in the near future.

The loan scheme, which the club introduced earlier this year, raised significant funds, and the management committee believe it is still the best bet to meet their needs by the end of the financial year.

Lucan Bohs

Yes we are and 90% likely won't be around this time next year

TangyZizzle

It's as bleak as bleak can get. Goodnight Bohs.

Lucan Bohs

AFC Bohs till I die/go bust again

SantryRed

Fcuking nuts that you were signing anyone at the start of the season. A member's owned club allowing the board to fcuk the club over further. It's nuts.

Paul Tergat

hate reading this

Ebbs

"Various valuations have been sought for the ground, and all indicate that the club's assets exceed their liabilities."

As bleak as people see it, this is a really important point. Bohs need to release the assets straight away. Plenty more twists and turns in this rather farcical story.

If they could just give Dalyer to Zurich and ask them to rent it until Zurich find a seller than they'd be happy.

stovelid

Surely enough members could get together to force them out...

flahavaj

The league would be a poorer place without Bohs tbh.

If Cork were allowed to drop to the first divison and come back under a new name can't Bohs do the same anyway?

TangyZizzle

stovelid wrote: »

Surely enough members could get together to force them out...

You'd have to find enough members that gave a fook. 80 of them turned up at the last meeting. Not even a quarter of the member base.

Pride Fighter

Good luck to Bohs in saving their club. Looks like they'll need it.

dsmythy

Got out of the woods at the start of the season and managed to make a balls of it again. Could have finished ahead of Galway and had a shot at staying up with finances better off but had to go spend.

super_furry

How the hell did the vote to increase the player budget ever get close to passing? Bohs should have been about ensuring their survival this season with an amateur side, instead it was business as usual.

As a Rovers fans, I don't like them, but I wouldn't wish the club going bankrupt on anyone.

CSF

flahavaj wrote: »

The league would be a poorer place without Bohs tbh.

If Cork were allowed to drop to the first divison and come back under a new name can't Bohs do the same anyway?

Cork had to form a new entity, Bohs will have to do the same. Much more complicated for Bohs to do so because of Dalymount. Also there won't be a First Division next year, not in the same format anyway.

Paul Tergat

how can this continually happen to some of the leagues biggest clubs?

dsmythy

CSF wrote: »

Cork had to form a new entity, Bohs will have to do the same. Much more complicated for Bohs to do so because of Dalymount. Also there won't be a First Division next year, not in the same format anyway.

How is the division changing?

Lucan Bohs

stovelid wrote: »

Surely enough members could get together to force them out...

Members couldn't be bothered going because we've been lied to so many times plus we all know that the meeting will end with the board getting out the begging bowl

Lucan Bohs

dsmythy wrote: »

Got out of the woods at the start of the season and managed to make a balls of it again. Could have finished ahead of Galway and had a shot at staying up with finances better off but had to go spend.

We were never out of the woods, we only bought ourselves more time

LuckyLloyd

Paul Tergat wrote: »

how can this continually happen to some of the leagues biggest clubs?

Because realists don't get into key decision making positions within LOI clubs, and the FAI has no appetite or ability to make them do the right thing.

homerjay2005

Paul Tergat wrote: »

how can this continually happen to some of the leagues biggest clubs?

poor financial planning. failure at CL last year killed them, but the real deal breaker was the collapse of the property deal.

Lucan Bohs

super_furry wrote: »

How the hell did the vote to increase the player budget ever get close to passing? Bohs should have been about ensuring their survival this season with an amateur side, instead it was business as usual.

As a Rovers fans, I don't like them, but I wouldn't wish the club going bankrupt on anyone.

When was the vote to increase the playing budget? I must have missed it!

Half of the current playing budget is the 2nd year of 2 year contracts for Heary, Murphy and Cronin

stovelid

Lucan Bohs wrote: »

Members couldn't be bothered going because we've been lied to so many times plus we all know that the meeting will end with the board getting out the begging bowl

When do they go up for re-election? Organise and vote them out? Or an EGM?

Actually feel for the loyal members that dug in to their pockets last year and now there is another shortfall for wages again.

I don't know the ins and outs but I would be afraid that you would be forced to fire sale Dalyer in a dead market meaning that you would be forced to accept virtually nothing for it.

Paul Tergat

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Because realists don't get into key decision making positions within LOI clubs, and the FAI has no appetite or ability to make them do the right thing.

what would you propose is done then to stop other clubs going to the wall?

homerjay2005 wrote: »

poor financial planning. failure at CL last year killed them, but the real deal breaker was the collapse of the property deal.

same question... are they really budgeting to get to a certain level of the CL?

CSF

dsmythy wrote: »

How is the division changing?

Regionalisation. North and South.

Ebbs

super_furry wrote: »

How the hell did the vote to increase the player budget ever get close to passing? Bohs should have been about ensuring their survival this season with an amateur side, instead it was business as usual.

As a Rovers fans, I don't like them, but I wouldn't wish the club going bankrupt on anyone.

Rumours out of some Bohs fans after that was there is an element within the members/board with invested interests. If they make Bohs go bust with silly wage structures and such, they can buy Dalyer in a nice Zurich Firesale.

bohsman

Ebbs wrote: »

Rumours out of some Bohs fans after that was there is an element within the members/board with invested interests. If they make Bohs go bust with silly wage structures and such, they can buy Dalyer in a nice Zurich Firesale.

We will see, think Hanlons razor rings true though.

1 weeks notice was given for the info meeting. No official decisions could be made, I was not bothered using up a half days holidays to go. I knew exactly what would be said bar the exact numbers.

Selling Dalymount under our own terms is key but not looking good at this point.

dsmythy

CSF wrote: »

Regionalisation. North and South.

Makes sense. I suppose given the FAI are doing it details are thin on the ground for the clubs.

Zebra3

Ebbs wrote: »

Rumours out of some Bohs fans after that was there is an element within the members/board with invested interests. If they make Bohs go bust with silly wage structures and such, they can buy Dalyer in a nice Zurich Firesale.

And what would any new owners do with Dalyer in the meantime?

Rent it back to Bohs?

It'll be a long time before it's worth developing.

BOHtox

Ebbs wrote: »

"Various valuations have been sought for the ground, and all indicate that the club's assets exceed their liabilities."

As bleak as people see it, this is a really important point. Bohs need to release the assets straight away. Plenty more twists and turns in this rather farcical story.

If they could just give Dalyer to Zurich and ask them to rent it until Zurich find a seller than they'd be happy.

The thing is Zurich want out of Ireland and would have no problem shutting us down so they can get their money.

stovelid wrote: »

When do they go up for re-election? Organise and vote them out? Or an EGM?

Actually feel for the loyal members that dug in to their pockets last year and now there is another shortfall for wages again.

I don't know the ins and outs but I would be afraid that you would be forced to fire sale Dalyer in a dead market meaning that you would be forced to accept virtually nothing for it.

The arguement for paying players is that the money spent on players is less than the money lost through not having a competitive squad.

The arguement is that the money from finishing higher in the table, competing in Europe, two cup runs and therefore higher attendences exceeds that of finishing 9th, no cup runs, therefore less games and less gates, and having no chance in Europe and therefore the tie would be over so people would lose interest.

The crushing thing is not the wages of Flood, Fagan and Bayly, it's the wages of the three from last year+ Fenlon. The wages of these 4 is same as the wages of everyone else put together.
We also had high Administration costs, from a previous year too, which were in their last year this year so they have not been renewed. Par Fenlon and Owen Heary have taken up some of these jobs, others are now voluntary from fans.

There are cost cutting measures going on and a lot have already been taken. We do, however, need a lot more.

In hindsight I wish Fenlon left. If Fenlon had have gone to Dundee, we would have have the required money to see out the season. 100K upfront + not paying Nutsy's large wages.

Pinturicchio

What were they thinking when they signed experienced players at the start of this season? Brennan, Heary, Burns, Rossiter, Bisto, Cronin etc.

Has the squad been paid throughout this season?

BOHtox

Pinturicchio wrote: »

What were they thinking when they signed experienced players at the start of this season? Brennan, Heary, Burns, Rossiter, Bisto, Cronin etc.

Has the squad been paid throughout this season?

Heary and Cronin never left. The didn't accept the pay-off at the start of the season. The other players are on <€500 a week. See above post for the Board's reasoning

Gavin "shels"

dsmythy wrote: »

Makes sense. I suppose given the FAI are doing it details are thin on the ground for the clubs.

Don't think the FAI released any info on it, the only info that seems to have been rumoured was what the Shels Board told us at the Fans' Forum at the start of the season.

SantryRed

BOHtox wrote: »

Ebbs wrote: »

"Various valuations have been sought for the ground, and all indicate that the club's assets exceed their liabilities."

As bleak as people see it, this is a really important point. Bohs need to release the assets straight away. Plenty more twists and turns in this rather farcical story.

If they could just give Dalyer to Zurich and ask them to rent it until Zurich find a seller than they'd be happy.

The thing is Zurich want out of Ireland and would have no problem shutting us down so they can get their money.

stovelid wrote: »

When do they go up for re-election? Organise and vote them out? Or an EGM?

Actually feel for the loyal members that dug in to their pockets last year and now there is another shortfall for wages again.

I don't know the ins and outs but I would be afraid that you would be forced to fire sale Dalyer in a dead market meaning that you would be forced to accept virtually nothing for it.

The arguement for paying players is that the money spent on players is less than the money lost through not having a competitive squad.

The arguement is that the money from finishing higher in the table, competing in Europe, two cup runs and therefore higher attendences exceeds that of finishing 9th, no cup runs, therefore less games and less gates, and having no chance in Europe and therefore the tie would be over so people would lose interest.

The crushing thing is not the wages of Flood, Fagan and Bayly, it's the wages of the three from last year+ Fenlon. The wages of these 4 is same as the wages of everyone else put together.
We also had high Administration costs, from a previous year too, which were in their last year this year so they have not been renewed. Par Fenlon and Owen Heary have taken up some of these jobs, others are now voluntary from fans.

There are cost cutting measures going on and a lot have already been taken. We do, however, need a lot more.

In hindsight I wish Fenlon left. If Fenlon had have gone to Dundee, we would have have the required money to see out the season. 100K upfront + not paying Nutsy's large wages.

So basically your board were once Again banking on success to pay wages? I have no sympathy for yous this time around. You had ample opportunity to make your team fully amateur apart from the contracted players and you didn't. You deserve everything that you get this time around.

BOHtox

No. Galway are amatuer and get around 600 through the gates. We're part time and get 1,200 through. The board say if we went Amateur we'd get 600 crowds. The less crowds cost us more money than if we were to be part time and get larger crowds. Not banking on success by any means.

Gavin "shels"

So offering Bisto a bigger contract than Shels was viable? Who was Sligos potential signing you's also managed to outbid on too?

How many chances do yous need to get your act together tbh?

BOHtox

Gavin shels wrote: »

So offering Bisto a bigger contract than Shels was viable? Who was Sligos potential signing you's also managed to outbid on too?

How many chances do yous need to get your act together tbh?

Well €2 is more than €1 so you're going to have to be more specifc than that. Bisto is probably on around €300 a week at most. I have no idea who that was. Fagan? Brennan? Rossi? Price? Burns?

1 more would be nice. Sell the ground, move to a prime location and stay there making a small profit with part time players and staff.

dsmythy

How are Galway's finances after a year amateur?

CSF

BOHtox wrote: »

Well €2 is more than €1 so you're going to have to be more specifc than that. Bisto is probably on around €300 a week at most. I have no idea who that was. Fagan? Brennan? Rossi? Price? Burns?

1 more would be nice. Sell the ground, move to a prime location and stay there making a small profit with part time players and staff.

There is no way you outbid us on Bisto with only 300 a week given the rest of our squad and the wages some of them must be earning probably being between 4 and 5 hundred for our best players (Conan Byrne, Paisley, Dean Delaney, Casso). Would imagine Brennan was the 1 Sligo were after.

Gavin "shels"

CSF wrote: »

There is no way you outbid us on Bisto with only 300 a week given the rest of our squad and the wages some of them must be earning probably being between 4 and 5 hundred for our best players (Conan Byrne, Paisley, Dean Delaney, Casso). Would imagine Brennan was the 1 Sligo were after.

Our players are on performance based contracts though afaik, goals, appearences, wins, draws, etc... along with a basic wage. Bohs probably offered more in basic wage.

kerosene

What would Bohs budget for playing staff over the season be roughly?

dregin

Paul Tergat wrote: »

how can this continually happen to some of the leagues biggest clubs?

u
Gate prices are my biggest turn off. How they expect people to pay €15 for such a rubbish standard of football is beyond me. I head to dalymount every so often because it's good craic, but I just can't justify throwing cash at a badly run club of glorified amateurs.

BOHtox

CSF wrote: »

There is no way you outbid us on Bisto with only 300 a week given the rest of our squad and the wages some of them must be earning probably being between 4 and 5 hundred for our best players (Conan Byrne, Paisley, Dean Delaney, Casso). Would imagine Brennan was the 1 Sligo were after.

Well I can guarantee you he's on no more than that.

kerosene wrote: »

What would Bohs budget for playing staff over the season be roughly?

250K

Pinturicchio

BOHtox wrote: »

No. Galway are amatuer and get around 600 through the gates. We're part time and get 1,200 through.

Our average is around 900.

dsmythy wrote: »

How are Galway's finances after a year amateur?

Better than this time last year, I would say.

doncarlos

BOHtox wrote: »

250K

I don't believe that for a second. There is no way that you have the squad you have and only have a budget of 250k

Murphy, Burns, Heary, Cronin, O'Brien, Price, Brennen, Cahill, Flood, Bayly are good premier league players that would not come cheap. Add in good young players coming back from England who I'm sure are not playing for free like Downes and Fagan

BOHtox

doncarlos wrote: »

I don't believe that for a second. There is no way that you have the squad you have and only have a budget of 250k

Murphy, Burns, Heary, Cronin, O'Brien, Price, Brennen, Cahill, Flood, Bayly are good premier league players that would not come cheap. Add in good young players coming back from England who I'm sure are not playing for free like Downes and Fagan

It's 200k on he squad this year. That does not include Murphy, Heary and Cronin. So it's 200k a year + whatever them 3 are earning.

bohsman

doncarlos wrote: »

I don't believe that for a second. There is no way that you have the squad you have and only have a budget of 250k

Murphy, Burns, Heary, Cronin, O'Brien, Price, Brennen, Cahill, Flood, Bayly are good premier league players that would not come cheap. Add in good young players coming back from England who I'm sure are not playing for free like Downes and Fagan

200k not including the 3 that stayed on current contracts. Downes signed as an amateur. Would guess the rest of the ones you mention are on 30ish week part time contracts (remember we had no players till a week or so before the season started) plenty of amateurs make up the rest of the squad.

kerosene

Would Fenlon have a full time post with bohs? What kind of salary would the top loi managers demand?

BOHtox

kerosene wrote: »

Would Fenlon have a full time post with bohs? What kind of salary would the top loi managers demand?

yes, 100k. The sooner he goes the better. A great manager but we cannot afford him.

SantryRed

BOHtox wrote: »

yes, 100k. The sooner he goes the better. A great manager but we cannot afford him.

Cheque book manager in all fairness.

vellocet

BOHtox wrote: »

250K

If you believe that I can see why your board have run rings around you...

5k a week for 20 odd players? Average of €250 per week?

dsmythy

bohsman wrote: »

200k not including the 3 that stayed on current contracts. Downes signed as an amateur. Would guess the rest of the ones you mention are on 30ish week part time contracts (remember we had no players till a week or so before the season started) plenty of amateurs make up the rest of the squad.

So your problem is fickle fans?