STOVES questions and answers here(see mod note in post 1)

pcasso

ABC101 wrote: »

I may be wrong,, but I think you can fit a stove up to but not greater than 5Kw into a room which does not have a external vent.

Once you go above this threshold you either require a vent, or you must put in an external air supply source.

Otherwise the stove will not work correctly ( due to lack of air / draught) and you run the risk of CO getting into the room.

The info you supplied seems a bit contradictory, if the apartment is 10 years old it should be well insulated to a high standard anyway. So why put in a stove?

You will have to put in a Stainless steel liner for the flue. Will the fitters be able to gain access to the roof? I mean how high is the building? Two floors, four floors, six floors?

Apartments generally do not have much storage space, so where are you going to keep de fuel? Then you have to dispose of hot ash?

It all depends on your set up, but in general the majority of apartments would not be suitable for a multifuel stoves.

I love stoves, I think they are great! But the govt are taxing fuel more and more every year, I think given the hassle with bunkering coal, disposable of ash etc the advantages over a gas boiler are narrowing.

SEAI have a good spreadsheet updated every 3 months giving cost comparisons of fuels, coal is the cheapest, but gas is not far behind.

Thanks for your reply. Much appreciated.
We will get a stove fitted that has an external air supply fitted.
The apartment is new to us but we have been told by neighbours that they are in fact very cold and the engineers report stated that the attic space above our apartment is poorly insulated.
There is a gas fire in situ at present but we reckon that it wouldn't be safe to use without a vent. To be honest the installation of a wood burning stove is an aesthetic as much as a practical choice.
The apartment has a balcony which has some storage space for fuel and would allow us to safely store hot ashes until disposal.
Thanks again for all your feed back and feel free to comment on what I have posted.:)

pcasso

Robbie.G wrote: »

A stove must have a permanent air supply for combustion.If you have a stove with external air supply you do not need a vent in the room for the stove

Thanks for your reply,
We will take it on board when choosing our stove:)

kennyb3

I ve read about people keeping a stove in/running one 24/7 for few months of winter. What's the story with ash in this situation?

Also is ash much hassle to get rid of generally? Will I likely end up ruining my living room carpet or is a tidy/ non Singy way of doing it?

Sanchez83

You can't run a stove 24/7 as you will burn it out in no time.
Get a good ash vacuum.Its the best of dealing with ash in a tidy manner.

Bobeagleburger

How long approx for the chemically type smell (curing smell) to go from lit fires?

HeidiHeidi

rarnes1 wrote: »

How long approx for the chemically type smell (curing smell) to go from lit fires?

I had it for about four or five fires.

Gave me shocking headaches, had to leave patio doors and room windows open, and the smoke alarm kept going off.

Then suddenly one evening it was no more.

Bobeagleburger

HeidiHeidi wrote: »

I had it for about four or five fires.

Gave me shocking headaches, had to leave patio doors and room windows open, and the smoke alarm kept going off.

Then suddenly one evening it was no more.

Yeah, I've noticed it doesn't happen with small/medium fires now but bigger fires it's still there. I've had about 3 of those. I do think it may be fading

ABC101

pcasso wrote: »

Thanks for your reply. Much appreciated.
We will get a stove fitted that has an external air supply fitted.
The apartment is new to us but we have been told by neighbours that they are in fact very cold and the engineers report stated that the attic space above our apartment is poorly insulated.
There is a gas fire in situ at present but we reckon that it wouldn't be safe to use without a vent. To be honest the installation of a wood burning stove is an aesthetic as much as a practical choice.
The apartment has a balcony which has some storage space for fuel and would allow us to safely store hot ashes until disposal.
Thanks again for all your feed back and feel free to comment on what I have posted.:)

You need to find out what type of gas fire is fitted.

I don't know everything about gas fires, but here is what I do know.

1). Gas fire fitted into the conventional fire place, this is a fire place which used to have a traditional coal / wood burning fire with a normal chimney, but now has a gas burning coal effect fire fitted.

2). Gas hot box, this is a gas burning hot box, with coal effect imitation coals, but it is NOT the same as a normal fireplace, it does not have a high temperature flue, just a spiral wound aluminium uptake vent which goes up to the roof. It is not designed for high temperatures or sooty creosote carbon fuels.

3) Gas imitation fire with catalytic converter, this has no flue at all, no chimney on the roof. This is not suitable for retrofitting of a wood burning or multifuel stove of any type.

I would imagine that given your apt is 10 years old, it would be very unusual that you have a traditional flue / chimney. I could be wrong!

If you want to keep a place warm, the first and most important step is insulation. After that comes heat source, whether it be solar, stoves or gas / oil boilers etc.

If you have a suitable chimney, you need to calculate how often you are going to light the stove, and how many KG of coal you are going to burn a day, because are you really going to hump up 40Kg a week to your coal bunker on de balcony.

Believe me you will soon be asking yourself is it really worth all this hassle.

arbf1

hi all, I am back again and would really appreciate any opinions or first hand experience with the Right Price Tiles Heritage Sheelin Inset boiler stove. Advertisement I read said it has 21kw output-6 to the room and 15 to the rads and water. this sounds too good to be true for the price of 999 euro, any advice greatly appreciated as always.

arbf1

just had another quick google and see bpm supplies do the sheelin for 799.

arbf1

and 650 euro for same stove on valuestoves.ie. from googling seems to be same company as stovedeals.ie also advertising on likes of done deal, adverts etc. anyone have any experience of this company? are there parts available for this stove? All seems too good to believe but prices of other stoves are just so much. anyone know how much installation would cost approx? what else is needed for this cost wise...piping etc. Sorry for multiple posts, wouldn't allow me to edit, thanks for any help.

blowin3

In fairness to the guy in valuestoves among other names points this out in his comments. The reason for my interest is that I am in the process of doing up a 3 bed house and am thinking of a stove. These guys operate in Clare and don't appear to have a show room but have good comments about their service. By the way I don't know them or have any connection .

pcasso

ABC101 wrote: »

You need to find out what type of gas fire is fitted.

I don't know everything about gas fires, but here is what I do know.

1). Gas fire fitted into the conventional fire place, this is a fire place which used to have a traditional coal / wood burning fire with a normal chimney, but now has a gas burning coal effect fire fitted.

2). Gas hot box, this is a gas burning hot box, with coal effect imitation coals, but it is NOT the same as a normal fireplace, it does not have a high temperature flue, just a spiral wound aluminium uptake vent which goes up to the roof. It is not designed for high temperatures or sooty creosote carbon fuels.

3) Gas imitation fire with catalytic converter, this has no flue at all, no chimney on the roof. This is not suitable for retrofitting of a wood burning or multifuel stove of any type.

I would imagine that given your apt is 10 years old, it would be very unusual that you have a traditional flue / chimney. I could be wrong!

If you want to keep a place warm, the first and most important step is insulation. After that comes heat source, whether it be solar, stoves or gas / oil boilers etc.

If you have a suitable chimney, you need to calculate how often you are going to light the stove, and how many KG of coal you are going to burn a day, because are you really going to hump up 40Kg a week to your coal bunker on de balcony.

Believe me you will soon be asking yourself is it really worth all this hassle.

Thanks for your opinions.
Plenty of food for though and much to ponder.

Sanchez83

Again to reiterate a point I've made before if it's not a branded stove it is not worth taking the chance.Would you drive a non branded car?
Ok the guys you have no connection to are great by all accounts...
That doesn't take away the reality that you are getting a stove which has no brand,possibly no genuine certification and in years to come may not be able to get parts for.
By the way,that website has no address for that company or landline.....only an email and mobile number.

Bobeagleburger

Why take the risk on an unbranded stoves when a good brand with a long warranty can be picked up for probably a few hundred more.

elastico

Sanchez83 wrote: »

Again to reiterate a point I've made before if it's not a branded stove it is not worth taking the chance.Would you drive a non branded car?
Ok the guys you have no connection to are great by all accounts...
That doesn't take away the reality that you are getting a stove which has no brand,possibly no genuine certification and in years to come may not be able to get parts for.
By the way,that website has no address for that company or landline.....only an email and mobile number.

Big difference in a stove for €250 and a car for €25000 though.

A stove just sits there in the corner and there isn't a huge amount that can go wrong with them.

Whats the point in paying hundreds extra to a shop for something that's called for example Henley or Hamco when its probably imported from China at similar unit cost on day one?

blowin3

Sanchez83 wrote: »

Again to reiterate a point I've made before if it's not a branded stove it is not worth taking the chance.Would you drive a non branded car?
Ok the guys you have no connection to are great by all accounts...
That doesn't take away the reality that you are getting a stove which has no brand,possibly no genuine certification and in years to come may not be able to get parts for.
By the way,that website has no address for that company or landline.....only an email and mobile number.

Am I correct in saying that Price right tiles are selling the same make and model. I am not going to get into an argument with you as I don't know what I am talking about when it comes to stoves. But I will comment on Generics lots of branded stuff and generic stuff come out of the same factories especially in China where a lot of the modern stoves are made. If it comes to cars lots of different car brands are also made in the same factories that I do know! Again I reiterate I have no connection with these people but I do happen to live in Clare not my fault :rolleyes:

Sanchez83

elastico wrote: »

Big difference in a stove for €250 and a car for €25000 though.

A stove just sits there in the corner and there isn't a huge amount that can go wrong with them.

Whats the point in paying hundreds extra to a shop for something that's called for example Henley or Hamco when its probably imported from China at similar unit cost on day one?

Where do I start re non branded stoves.
A poorly built stove with no quality control could emit carbon monoxide and kill you.So comparing cost of stove versus car has no baring as it was safety I was highlighting.
This poorly built stove is being ordered via email online,has fake certification and because the Chinese are selling it to a nobody they are normally rejects from big clients who do quality control and refuse them.
The importance of having a brand is knowing they are genuinely certified and SAFE.Brands will have vigorous quality control checks and more importantly will be there in ten years time if you need them.
That's why you would pay a few hundred euros more,safety and peace of mind.

ionapaul

Hey all,

My wife and I are planning to buy a small-ish (1,000 sq foot) 3-bed semi in Dublin city centre. It's a house with GFCH built in the late 1800's with a BER rating of G, so probably pretty cold! In are fireplaces in the two reception rooms, the one in the front room is extremely small and not used as an open fire anymore I believe, while the one in the back room is bigger and still used:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B0_jleoNsVcWOWN3VU9JVHlnTkk/preview

There is a cigarette box in the picture above, which may help determine size. The last time I was in the room I very quickly grabbed some dimensions of the 'open' area, it is about 36 inches high, 36 inches wide and maybe 7 inches or so deep.

The wife loves the look of the fireplace but I think I'd prefer some kind of stove, would be so much more efficient (also plan to upgrade the attic insulation and replace the single-glazed windows to the front of the house). What would my options be in terms of replacing the small open fire with a small stove? Is it too small for an insert/partial insert? The room itself is fairly small (17.25 ft x 12.5 ft), with three doors to internal rooms (two of these are open doorways) and one external door, double-glazed glass. Not sure we'd have the space for another small stove in the front room so would like to get as much of the downstairs of the house heated from this room as possible.

Any thoughts on options?

elastico

Sanchez83 wrote: »

Where do I start re non branded stoves.
A poorly built stove with no quality control could emit carbon monoxide and kill you.So comparing cost of stove versus car has no baring as it was safety I was highlighting.
This poorly built stove is being ordered via email online,has fake certification and because the Chinese are selling it to a nobody they are normally rejects from big clients who do quality control and refuse them.
The importance of having a brand is knowing they are genuinely certified and SAFE.Brands will have vigorous quality control checks and more importantly will be there in ten years time if you need them.
That's why you would pay a few hundred euros more,safety and peace of mind.

Lots of scaremongering there!

So if somebody brought in a container of these stoves, screwed a badge on them (lets say they make up Hamley as a brand name) then all of a sudden they become good quality, genuinely certified and safe.

Taking Heritage stoves as an example in post #3135 you call them con artists but on the other hand they have a brand so according to your post above that means they are genuinely certified and SAFE.

And just because something says Waterford Stanley does not mean it can't be a carbon monoxide hazard.

Are you suggesting that a stove with a brand badge means you shouldn't bother with a carbon monoxide alarm?

How do you know for a fact that Henley for example will be around in 10 years time. Or even if they are around in 10 years I can't imagine doing much for me, like Toyota won't be too interested if I ring them with a problem with my 10 year old car.

Bobeagleburger

How long is the warranty with the cheaper stoves?

Inis stoves all come with a 5 year warranty afaik

elastico

rarnes1 wrote: »

How long is the warranty with the cheaper stoves?

Inis stoves all come with a 5 year warranty afaik

I am not convinced about some of these warranties either. If you read the Stanley warranty for example it says your stove must be fitted by a Stanley certified installer (you will pay top whack for that) then it says the stove is not covered if its overfired or caused by normal wear and tear, (so what does the warranty cover really) and you need to arrange to return it to them at your own expense and they will look at it to see if its covered by warranty and then you need to arrange to collect it back off them again and presumably have it taken out and refitted by your Stanley certified top dollar charging installer.

Sanchez83

Are you sure it says Stanley certified installer?Stanley do not offer a course to certify installers so therefore there is no such thing.
It's been a while since I've read their warranty but it used to either say qualified installer or Hetas certified installer or qualified plumber.I am open to correction here but will check tomorrow..

To be fair to Stanley(and I am not their biggest fan),they are completely right not to cover stoves which have not been operated correctly.
Somebody posted yesterday about burning a stove 24/7.If that stove gets wrecked within the warranty is that Stanley's fault? logically it is not.
If somebody drives a brand new car all day in 1st gear when they get it,is it the manufacturers fault the gearbox/clutch is burnt out?
The warranty on any product is for manufacturing faults,not for misuse of a product.

Sanchez83

rarnes1 wrote: »

How long is the warranty with the cheaper stoves?

Inis stoves all come with a 5 year warranty afaik

I contacted stove deals last time this was discussed and was told there was no warranty outside of normal consumer legislation.
Most well known stove brands have warranties 5 years plus.

elastico

Sanchez83 wrote: »

.

You are grasping at straws a bit suggesting that having a landline makes a business more credible in the age of the internet and mobile phones. Also the stovedeals.ie website is around a few years now so its more than a popup website at this stage.

I had a look on the Stanley website and it says: To validate your warranty, your oil or gas range cooker or stove must be commissioned by a Stanley Engineer, it also says you must pay all delivery costs associated with returning a stove under warranty. Theres something similar about solid fuel but its in a pdf so didn't bother printing it.

My point is that some of these warranties might not be all they are cracked up to be as the retailer can blame over firing / poor installation etc. and give you the runaround as you organise taking it out and shipping it across the country more in hope than expectation.

Anyway theres no point arguing over this all night, I have one of the cheap stoves and it works fine, and I know a few others who have them and they are equally happy, each to their own and all that!

macjohn

elastico wrote: »

You are grasping at straws a bit suggesting that having a landline makes a business more credible in the age of the internet and mobile phones. Also the stovedeals.ie website is around a few years now so its more than a popup website at this stage.

Because its so easy set you a website general consumer protection suggests landline and address etc, --> a general point not directed at any company.
Not grasping at straws rather making point of what normal companies do and are expected to do.

elastico wrote: »

Anyway theres no point arguing over this all night, I have one of the cheap stoves and it works fine, and I know a few others who have them and they are equally happy, each to their own and all that!

Thats the key point, you have experience of one stove and its grand for your use and same for your mates. I used have a slow windows xp and thought it was grand, then I tried my partner's superfast ultrabook with windows 8.1 and realised my old machine was grand in context. That doesn't mean I would recommend people spend their hard earned cash on one.
Sanchez is offering his experience with many many brands of stove so its not a compatible argument,
ie your experience is with one brand.


In relation to the earlier post - branding refers to a long term process of building up expectations in a particular brand, yellow pack - particular level expected. Tag Heur - particular level expected.
It is not as a poster suggested just pasting on a sticker with a name.

elastico

macjohn wrote: »

Because its so easy set you a website general consumer protection suggests landline and address etc, --> a general point not directed at any company.
Not grasping at straws rather making point of what normal companies do and are expected to do.

I know we are going off topic a bit but that's absolute rubbish about what companies are expected to do Re. having a landline.

Where is this outlined in general consumer protection that you should have a landline. Link please.

We don't expect to phone Ryanair to book a flight for example. If a company chooses to go the online route, regardless of what their line of business is, that's their business strategy and we all know its cheaper to buy a plane ticket online than to go into a travel agent and pay for a ticket where staff have to manually take and process your order.

macjohn

elastico wrote: »

I know we are going off topic a bit but that's absolute rubbish about what companies are expected to do Re. having a landline.

Where is this outlined in general consumer protection that you should have a landline. Link please.

We don't expect to phone Ryanair to book a flight for example. If a company chooses to go the online route, regardless of what their line of business is, that's their business strategy and we all know its cheaper to buy a plane ticket online than to go into a travel agent and pay for a ticket where staff have to manually take and process your order.

We will get back to stoves if we can.

but use of the words "absolute rubbish" makes it hard to ignore as it makes it sound like I was making it up,

As requested the name address and contact details requirement -
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/PDF/?uri=CELEX:32011L0083&rid=1
my apologies for use of landline instead of phone, mobile contacts likely fall within the regs.

Your ryanair point - no one made the argument that we should not use websites or that they not a valid business model.

blowin3

I had planned to go see this guy selling the cheap stoves. But due to getting caught up in some thing else in the house I did not get a chance but will do tomorrow.

arbf1

thanks all for replies, I didn't realise the Henley Achill insert came in a 21kw boiler model...is this new? Is the 5.1kw to the room a true reflection of what you get? Does this model fit into a standard fireplace as I know some bigger inserts (e.g. Stratford EBhe16i) need the standard fireplace widened for installation and I think this may be costly? How much does this model retail at roughly if anyone has any idea, I can't see a price anywhere online for this model only the smaller one. Thanks again.