Five arrests in 'slavery' raid at UK [travellers] site

Billy86

thegreengoblin wrote: »

Should be interesting to hear Pavee Point's views on this story. Of course, they should totally and unreservedly condemn these kind of actions and be appalled by the story, like everyone else...

If they have any sense, or even any concept of PR/political nuance that is exactly what they will do. Otherwise, they are condemning themselves to a long, long bout of deserved public ridicule, and will lose any creidbility (and likely with it, sway) that they may hold at present.

Billy86

Palmach wrote: »

Right people's atitude is worse than slavery? And the slavers are still human beings? These people are lowlifes of the worst sort and I am sorry to say it typifies the Tinker attitude to law and order. Laws are for others and if you apply it us we'll call you racist. If you coddle a group and teach them that wahtever happens it is not their fault then morality goes out the window.

I think (at least hope) the guy you quoted was referring to the overall travelling community as 'still human beings' and not those who were involved in this. However, if you consider the travelling community within Ireland to be 'coddled' I really don't know what to say to you. They are essentially like our version of the Aborigines.

ejmaztec

Billy86 wrote: »

The connection should be obvious, and it them I am drawing the connection to, but rather us and how quite a few are labelling the whole for the appalling misdeeds of the very few in this situation. Surely then this standard should apply across the board, otherwise it is just blatant discrimination and jumping at any opportunity to demonise an entire community.

If there were a few million Fritzls involved, then it would probably be a reasonable comparison, but in the case of there being one Fritzl, it's blatantly obvious that it isn't a good comparison.

thegreengoblin

Sunshine! wrote: »

The slavery is appalling, but I find people's attitudes in here to be worse to a degree.

Do you have any idea just how ludicrous that statement is?

Billy86

ejmaztec wrote: »

If there were a few million Fritls involved, then it would probably be a reasonable comparison, but in the case of there being one Fritzl, it's blatantly obvious that it isn't a good comparison.

Thank you for proving my point. All we know is that there were five people involved, just as all we know with Fritzl is that there was one involved (or two with Duggard). The fact that you equate this to "millions" just says it all really, and completely backs up what I was getting at.

Mr. Presentable

Billy86 wrote: »

Thank you for proving my point. All we know is that there were five people involved, just as all we know with Fritzl is that there was one involved (or two with Duggard). The fact that you equate this to "millions" just says it all really, and completely backs up what I was getting at.

With all due respect, this had to be done with the cooperation of all the "travellers" on the site, not just the five arrested. Do we know how many?

EGAR

Billy86 wrote: »

Thank you for proving my point. All we know is that there were five people involved, just as all we know with Fritzl is that there was one involved (or two with Duggard). The fact that you equate this to "millions" just says it all really, and completely backs up what I was getting at.

One has nothing to do with the other, just because you are willing to be.

I am sure the peeps at Pavee Point will be at loss as to what to put up about it. I am awaiting a publication with baited breath :pac:.

Billy86

Mr. Presentable wrote: »

With all due respect, this had to be done with the cooperation of all the "travellers" on the site, not just the five arrested. Do we know how many?

That is something that is going to have to be looked at, but at present there have only been five arrested. We will find out in time if any others (and more likelym how many others) were involved, but we do not know that yet. For example, Fritzl's wife lived in the very same house that all that evil was going on in for 20+ years and did not know a thing about it, as per the law.

Billy86

EGAR wrote: »

One has nothing to do with the other, just because you are willing to be.

I am sure the peeps at Pavee Point will be at loss as to what to put up about it. I am awaiting a publication with baited breath :pac:.

My point is very simple: when Firtzl's case, or Duggard's, came up the neighbours were not seen as 'in on it' and the overall communities were not either. Even Fritzl's wife was not - her story of being oblivious to it was quite widely accepted from the get-go. So why is that different now that it is the travelling community?

The constant drooling over what Pavee Point will or will not say about this from some on here does point towards an agenda, as if you are just enjoying seeing the travelling community getting in trouble. At which point it would make sense that you would want to lump as many of them in on the blame as possible (like, as another poster said only a few minutes ago: "millions" of them).

vetstu

Travellers call for ethnic statusl

Old link but hopefully this gets through soon.
Then we can do some ethnic cleansing

mod: poster banned.

Billy86

vetstu wrote: »

Travellers call for ethnic statusl

Old link but hopefully this gets through soon.
Then we can do some ethnic cleansing

Well, at least you are open about being a bigot. I'll give you that.

EGAR

Billy86 wrote: »

My point is very simple: when Firtzl's case, or Duggard's, came up the neighbours were not seen as 'in on it' and the overall communities were not either. Even Fritzl's wife was not - her story of being oblivious to it was quite widely accepted from the get-go. So why is that different now that it is the travelling community?

The constant drooling over what Pavee Point will or will not say about this from some on here does point towards an agenda, as if you are just enjoying seeing the travelling community getting in trouble. At which point it would make sense that you would want to lump as many of them in on the blame as possible (like, as another poster said only a few minutes ago: "millions" of them).

Ahm, this was my very first reference to Pavee Point on boards.ie EVER, feel free to check all my comments since I joined .

I wont even bother to reply to the rest of your post, it is getting a bit tedious.

Elmidena

Palmach wrote: »

Right people's atitude is worse than slavery? And the slavers are still human beings? These people are lowlifes of the worst sort and I am sorry to say it typifies the Tinker attitude to law and order. Laws are for others and if you apply it us we'll call you racist. If you coddle a group and teach them that wahtever happens it is not their fault then morality goes out the window.

Please refer to my first post also instead of stealing a snippet. Some of these posters sound like they'd love a genocide....that IS worse than slavery

up for anything

This reminds me of when the settled Irish gleefully used the first wave of refugees and asylum seekers to do odd jobs around the house. People got their houses painted at a €15 day rate when it would have cost them at least €100 if they used Irish tradesmen and nearly sainted themselves for giving them an extra few bob to add to their refugee allowance. :rolleyes:

Then there were the Poles and others who were held over a barrel in labouring jobs. One lad I knew took a week off when his wife gave birth, didn't get paid for it and then was made work a week for nothing to pay his boss back for the loss of earnings on the week he took off. He was an intelligent, educated guy but he needed his job desperately to keep his wife and newborn. His boss was a young farmer's son of 27 who was also acting as a sub-contractor.

Then there were the pot-washers at a very expensive restaurant in town who were being paid €2 an hour.

It doesn't excuse any kind of slavery but it shows that were some in this country who wouldn't have been averse to it if they could get away with it. :mad:

Billy86

EGAR wrote: »

Ahm, this was my very first reference to Pavee Point on boards.ie EVER, feel free to check all my comments since I joined .

You are aware that other people are posting in this forum, right?

EGAR

Billy86 wrote: »

You are aware that other people are posting in this forum, right?

Yes, but you didn't quote them, you quoted me, right? Anyway, as I said: tedious.


The story has now made the Irish news, just heard it on the radio.

problemchimp

Dangerous Man wrote: »

Let's not jump the gun and get all racist here. These people are a different ethnic group than us settled folk and simply have different traditions within their own culture. It's selfish of us to expect them to live by our rules.

Over a lot of heads it would seem.

Billy86

"The constant drooling..." not "your constant drooling", and then I even cited a post from a different person in thar same paragraph. Reading comprehension is key.

Also, people do tend to find it tedious to have flaws picked in their logic, yes.

EDIT: Anyway, feck it. We're obviously not going to find any middle ground here.

EGAR

Billy darling, I have your semantics on *ignore* now so don't exert yourself on my behalf .

According to news all arrested are Irish. Lovely..

Billy86

Ahh, the good old "I've got nothing else to justify myself, so I'll try to get the last word in and run away" approach... nice!

EGAR

Billy86 wrote: »

Ahh, the good old "I've got nothing else to justify myself, so I'll try to get the last word in and run away" approach... nice!

No, it's the: *You can't argue with a fool approach* - hence my bowing out of any discussion with you . TTFN

I have no intention of quitting this thread, just the arguing with a fool. Meh.

Billy86

Some gobsh*** wife of somebody arrested with a ridiculous set of fake ones (wonder how she coudl afford them) on Sky News now, trying to deny it and claim discrimination, making a fool of herself. Not too surprising given how much of a lowlife you would have to be to do what they have been up to, hopefully she gets equal punishment to those arrested so far.

Billy86

Thought I was on your ignore list, EGAR?

EGAR

Let's get one thing absolutely clear about the "slaves" who have been discovered by police imprisoned at a traveller's site in Bedfordshire: we must not to be quick to judge.
Which of us can say, hand on heart, that we have not at some time in our lives felt the urge to kidnap one or two stray migrant workers or alcoholics, shave their heads, steal their mobile phones, keep them in a shed or a dog kennel at the bottom of our gardens and force them to perform menial tasks for starvation rations and no money, beating them if they fail to measure up or try to escape?
And even those of us who haven't actually acted on this urge ought surely to be aware that with certain "communities" special exceptions must be made.
For example, you or I might think it is a bit off, murdering your sister, daughter or niece for failing to marry her first cousin and running off with someone she loves instead; or to have your daughter circumcised so that she is unable to experience any filthy sexual pleasure in her marital relations. But what we must learn to understand is that different cultures have different traditions. We should understand honour killings and female circumcision as part of the melting pot of colourful cultural customs which have helped make modern Britain so vibrant and diverse.
And of course, we should extend similar tolerance and understanding to the free spirits of the traveller community, as they roam the land in search of new spots to concrete over and, of course, enhance with their charming, eccentric customs. As I'm sure UN ambassadress Vanessa Redgrave will be the first to point out when she appears on her inevitable visit to the Greenacre traveller site, it is WRONG, quite WRONG to condemn travellers for allegedly keeping slaves. After all, the Romans did it and we think they're civilised. And lots of US Southerners did it right up until the mid 1860s – and we think of them as gentlemen.
That's why we should congratulate the police for their sympathetic, softly softly approach to the problem. (If you think it is a problem, which probably makes you a racist, because as "travellers" they have racial status don't they? Check it out next time you have to fill in a census form). It seems they have been aware for quite some time of this quaint slavery custom:
Says the police officer in charge of the investigation:
"But in fact some people did leave and told us what was going on and when we looked back since 2008 we were aware of 28 people who had made similar accusations."
Indeed, detectives believe that some of the slaves may have been held captive for as long as 15 years.
Fair makes you proud to be British, doesn't it? What a marvellously tolerant nation we have become!

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/jamesdelingpole/100104361/traveller-slaves-vanessa-redgrave-can-surely-explain/

skylight1987

if i was to put into words what i think of travellers and how i would deal with them if i ruled the country, i would be banned from boards for good . so i will just keep it to myself

Latchy

Apparently the kidnapped in question were approached outside dole offices and offered jobs and accommodation ,then whisked off for their lifes of slavery .It's being known for some years now that east europeans girl are lured into a life of prostitution , others into forced labour in houses and restaurants but this is a new can of worms .

ejmaztec

Billy86 wrote: »

Thank you for proving my point. All we know is that there were five people involved, just as all we know with Fritzl is that there was one involved (or two with Duggard). The fact that you equate this to "millions" just says it all really, and completely backs up what I was getting at.

It doesn't back up anything that you say whatsoever, you're just clocking up the intentional mis-interpretations, post by post.

youtube!

This kind of thing is widespread, I know personally of a Czech lad who came to Ireland about a yr ago,he was married and simply wanted to earn enough money to pay off a debt for a car back home. he only planned on staying for a few mths or a yr at most.

He got a "job" with a well known circus (sayin no more than that) and was paid 100 euro a week for 7 days 16hrs a day. He was regularly beaten and told he could not leave. On one particular occasion he was told he had to drive the truck from one town to another while the bossman slept, he got lost and ended up in the wrong town,when the boss woke up to see where he had brought them to he pulled him out of the cab and 3 men kicked and punched him and beat him with sticks. He eventually managed to escape and stayed with a friend while he waited for a flight home, needless to say he wont be coming back to Ireland.

flutered

=-=

Most people in AH know what I think of the travellers. Apart from one group of 5 people that actually travelled, every other "traveller" that I have personally come across never travelled, and deserved to be shipped to a small uninhabited island and left to fend for themselves. The people in Pavee Point should be housed in a small building in the middle of a halting site. It'd be... interesting...[/QUOTE]
may i compliment you on the above quote, with the addition that they should be moved from site to site to experience how all the various familys live.

R P McMurphy

Latchy wrote: »

Apparently the kidnapped in question were approached outside dole offices and offered jobs and accommodation ,then whisked off for their lifes of slavery .It's being known for some years now that east europeans girl are lured into a life of prostitution , others into forced labour in houses and restaurants but this is a new can of worms .

It is a sickening thing to do to someone. I remember a case that was initially reported about a girl being held prisoner as a prostitute in Oldcastle in Meath but the story seemed to fade without a trace. There are plenty of people being held as slaves, seems to involve diplomatic staff quite a bit