Waterford GAA Discussion Thread 2011-2012

zol 2

deisebhoy17 wrote: »

hes not going to be involved in the waterford set-up anyway. was just a rumour it seems

One night per week apparently. What a farcical set up! The amount of people that have been approached earlier to come on board as a selector is in double digits,and now when they eventually get one its only now decided to bring in a hurling coach? I just give up because if it happened at club level there would be uproar. How long more is this going to be put up with? The worst of all is when we hit rock bottom who in they're right mind will want to come in to try to sort it when the current set-up are long gone? But the main thing is he's cheap and will do what he's told by the hierarchy so i wouldn't be surprised if they extended his current contract!!!!!!!

Mountainlad

zol 2 wrote: »

One night per week apparently. What a farcical set up! The amount of people that have been approached earlier to come on board as a selector is in double digits,and now when they eventually get one its only now decided to bring in a hurling coach? I just give up because if it happened at club level there would be uproar. How long more is this going to be put up with? The worst of all is when we hit rock bottom who in they're right mind will want to come in to try to sort it when the current set-up are long gone? But the main thing is he's cheap and will do what he's told by the hierarchy so i wouldn't be surprised if they extended his current contract!!!!!!!

This management team won't be there next year, not unless the team gets results. If the team gets relegated from the league, there will be a big push for them to be removed before the championship. If that arises, the outcome will be dependent on whether there is a candidate that would step in at that time.

Can I ask what that means? What's he being told to do?

solarith

I daresay the football team has the best management background team this year.

scoring forward

zol 2 wrote: »

One night per week apparently. What a farcical set up! The amount of people that have been approached earlier to come on board as a selector is in double digits,and now when they eventually get one its only now decided to bring in a hurling coach? I just give up because if it happened at club level there would be uproar. How long more is this going to be put up with? The worst of all is when we hit rock bottom who in they're right mind will want to come in to try to sort it when the current set-up are long gone? But the main thing is he's cheap and will do what he's told by the hierarchy so i wouldn't be surprised if they extended his current contract!!!!!!!

OK so Charlie will you take over so. I bet i know who would be the first two names on the team sheet if you did.

noiniho

scoring forward wrote: »

OK so Charlie will you take over so. I bet i know who would be the first two names on the team sheet if you did.

This will only become fair if you now reveal your name to everyone scoring forward :eek:

deisebhoy17

Interesting article on Hoganstand.

People here have stated that we seem to struggle to bring our players onto the next level after colleges and minor level and this may or may not might shed some light on why

http://www.hoganstand.com/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=184248

hardybuck

deisebhoy17 wrote: »

Interesting article on Hoganstand.

People here have stated that we seem to struggle to bring our players onto the next level after colleges and minor level and this may or may not might shed some light on why

http://www.hoganstand.com/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=184248[/QUOTE]

I witnessed one of the Waterford players who played in the quarter final against Cork out in a pub on the Friday before the game. I was pretty surprised to say the least.

Mountainlad

hardybuck wrote: »

deisebhoy17 wrote: »

Interesting article on Hoganstand.

People here have stated that we seem to struggle to bring our players onto the next level after colleges and minor level and this may or may not might shed some light on why

http://www.hoganstand.com/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=184248[/QUOTE]

I witnessed one of the Waterford players who played in the quarter final against Cork out in a pub on the Friday before the game. I was pretty surprised to say the least.

You sure he was drinking?

hardybuck

Mountainlad wrote: »

hardybuck wrote: »

You sure he was drinking?

Hand on heart I can't say that I am. I can say that I am aware of the person to drink fairly regularly throughout the season, and the in week leading into club championship games. While I don't expect lads to be complete robots I expect better than that. On the Friday before the Cork game I can't say I witnessed drinking as I only saw him in passing, but it doesn't look good at all.

I don't think the likes of Cork would tolerate that.

noiniho

hardybuck wrote: »

Mountainlad wrote: »

Hand on heart I can't say that I am. I can say that I am aware of the person to drink fairly regularly throughout the season, and the in week leading into club championship games. While I don't expect lads to be complete robots I expect better than that. On the Friday before the Cork game I can't say I witnessed drinking as I only saw him in passing, but it doesn't look good at all.

I don't think the likes of Cork would tolerate that.

So you didnt see him drinking you just saw him out in a pub two nights before a game?

(Move along people, nothing to see here)

hardybuck

noiniho wrote: »

hardybuck wrote: »

So you didnt see him drinking you just saw him out in a pub two nights before a game?

(Move along people, nothing to see here)

A busy, late night pub, well known for rowdy behaviour. Not a quiet country pub playing cards and having a quiet chat. I don't know if you have ever played at intercounty level, but this just isn't done before games, never mind an All Ireland quarter final.

I know Mark Rowe pretty well, and he'd have a lot of experience with the topic of alcohol abuse, and also has a fair amount of common sense. In my opinion he isn't looking for pure headlines, and he's obviously witnessed something during his time with Waterford GAA which worried him.

noiniho

hardybuck wrote: »

noiniho wrote: »

A busy, late night pub, well known for rowdy behaviour. Not a quiet country pub playing cards and having a quiet chat. I don't know if you have ever played at intercounty level, but this just isn't done before games, never mind an All Ireland quarter final.

I know Mark Rowe pretty well, and he'd have a lot of experience with the topic of alcohol abuse, and also has a fair amount of common sense. In my opinion he isn't looking for pure headlines, and he's obviously witnessed something during his time with Waterford GAA which worried him.

You dont have to know Mark Rowe well to come to the conclusion that the GAA is wrapped up in a binge drink culture, the only sessions that are better then when you win something is when you get knocked out of the championship for the year, regardless after any championship match a general p!ss up ensues for most people at all levels invovled in a club on the lash.... but that is an Irish problem more then a GAA problem, Friends of mine who didnt play hurling definitely got through alot more binge drinking then I did or any of the other lads playing hurling, at least we had reason not to drink for most of the summer....

I didnt play intercounty, but I would never have gone out to a pub before a game like that, but that is mainly because I wouldnt be bothered my hole going to the pub if I wasnt drinking anyway.
But if one of my team mates or a intercounty player from my county went to a pub for a chat or a game of cards, as long as they were not drinking or werent out too late and ensured they were getting enough rest I wouldnt have a problem with that. Some people wind down differently and some players dont want to focus too much on a match too far out. some guys you couldnt even talk too in a dressing room before a match they are so hyped up, others are cracking jokes right before the ball is thrown in....

A player who is in the pub so close to a game of that importance is setting himself up for getting it thrown back in his face afterwords though, from that point of view it would probably be best for that particular player to avoid the pubs...

Obviously from your post it appears the player wasnt out drinking, but he wasnt exactly out having a chat or playing cards either???? so there must have been something in the way he was behaving that made you raise an eyebrow and go what is this lad playing at?? (lateness, acting the ejjit etc?)

hardybuck

noiniho wrote: »

hardybuck wrote: »

You dont have to know Mark Rowe well to come to the conclusion that the GAA is wrapped up in a binge drink culture, the only sessions that are better then when you win something is when you get knocked out of the championship for the year, regardless after any championship match a general p!ss up ensues for most people at all levels invovled in a club on the lash.... but that is an Irish problem more then a GAA problem, Friends of mine who didnt play hurling definitely got through alot more binge drinking then I did or any of the other lads playing hurling, at least we had reason not to drink for most of the summer....

I didnt play intercounty, but I would never have gone out to a pub before a game like that, but that is mainly because I wouldnt be bothered my hole going to the pub if I wasnt drinking anyway.
But if one of my team mates or a intercounty player from my county went to a pub for a chat or a game of cards, as long as they were not drinking or werent out too late and ensured they were getting enough rest I wouldnt have a problem with that. Some people wind down differently and some players dont want to focus too much on a match too far out. some guys you couldnt even talk too in a dressing room before a match they are so hyped up, others are cracking jokes right before the ball is thrown in....

A player who is in the pub so close to a game of that importance is setting himself up for getting it thrown back in his face afterwords though, from that point of view it would probably be best for that particular player to avoid the pubs...

Obviously from your post it appears the player wasnt out drinking, but he wasnt exactly out having a chat or playing cards either???? so there must have been something in the way he was behaving that made you raise an eyebrow and go what is this lad playing at?? (lateness, acting the ejjit etc?)

It was a packed venue late enough in the night, where you'd barely get standing room. I can't say if he was drinking or not as I only saw him for a minute from the shoulder up. I don't think it'd be fair of me to say he was drinking as I didn't see enough, but either way he shouldn't have been there. Even if you weren't drinking you'd be tired from standing on your feet all night and getting to bed late.

What raised my eyebrow was (1)what the feck was he doing here and (2)I'm seeing him on the sauce too often on other occasions - is one of the reasons for this players performance levels dropping in recent seasons.

I did play intercounty once upon a time, and I wouldn't have been a pioneer by any means, but things have become more professional today and if I was on the scene now I'd probably need to have a different lifestyle. I understand what a player goes through to some extent, but you've got to draw the line somewhere.

noiniho

hardybuck wrote: »

noiniho wrote: »

It was a packed venue late enough in the night, where you'd barely get standing room. I can't say if he was drinking or not as I only saw him for a minute from the shoulder up. I don't think it'd be fair of me to say he was drinking as I didn't see enough, but either way he shouldn't have been there. Even if you weren't drinking you'd be tired from standing on your feet all night and getting to bed late.

What raised my eyebrow was (1)what the feck was he doing here and (2)I'm seeing him on the sauce too often on other occasions - is one of the reasons for this players performance levels dropping in recent seasons.

I did play intercounty once upon a time, and I wouldn't have been a pioneer by any means, but things have become more professional today and if I was on the scene now I'd probably need to have a different lifestyle. I understand what a player goes through to some extent, but you've got to draw the line somewhere.

Ya from what you describe (packed venue, late at night, standing room only) there is no way he should have next or near the place, and was pretty stupid to even let himself be seen by the public in that enviroment leading up to a match, I just assumed that he would have been spotted in a more discret out of the way place, having a chat to relax the brain and heading back to the leaba before the sun went down, you know kinda more 'out of harms way'.....

What do you think of the GAA binge drinking culture yourself?

ManFromCheese

your mind obv isnt on the game if you need to be anywhere near a pub 2 nites before a game, drinking or not drinking!

deisebhoy17

This isnt just a waterford problem so lets not kid ourselves saying this is the reason why we have underperformed in recent years.

Our dear friends from across the river that we love to point to as shining examples so often on this board are no angels in this regard either, its rife across the gaa. I know a lot of players are unbeleivably disciplined and look after themselves immaculately but others come through the college life get sucked into it, and the culture in rural clubs of getting tanked up down the local after games. Like Mark Rowe says its a reflection of the society these lads come from.

As an ameteur sport there will always be in issue with this as there is only so much you can do to stamp it out.

hardybuck

noiniho wrote: »

hardybuck wrote: »

Ya from what you describe (packed venue, late at night, standing room only) there is no way he should have next or near the place, and was pretty stupid to even let himself be seen by the public in that enviroment leading up to a match, I just assumed that he would have been spotted in a more discret out of the way place, having a chat to relax the brain and heading back to the leaba before the sun went down, you know kinda more 'out of harms way'.....

What do you think of the GAA binge drinking culture yourself?

Yeah exactly, there'd be nothing wrong with going down to a quiet local on a Friday for a chat and in home early. Far more normal than sitting in at home - but everyone is different. I'd have my feet up relaxing personally.

My opinion - yeah the culture is bad, but you've got to accept personal responsibility for some of it as well. Some managers would impose beer bans for months at a time, some players would impose it on themselves. This is bad in itself, as you go out like lunatics after a big game or whenever the ban is over. I suppose most lads will now be on gym programmes and ticking away over the winter. As time went on I found it was better to have the odd drink now and again to make things a bit more normal.

After county finals I've seen some poor behaviour, lads still hammered four or five days after a win. You've got to enjoy victories but that takes things too far.

I suppose to summarise I've seen plenty of extremes. You train to extremes. You go without a drop of alcohol for months at a time which I think is a bit extreme. You often drink to extreme when you win or lose or whenever the season is over.

hardybuck

deisebhoy17 wrote: »

This isnt just a waterford problem so lets not kid ourselves saying this is the reason why we have underperformed in recent years.

Our dear friends from across the river that we love to point to as shining examples so often on this board are no angels in this regard either, its rife across the gaa. I know a lot of players are unbeleivably disciplined and look after themselves immaculately but others come through the college life get sucked into it, and the culture in rural clubs of getting tanked up down the local after games. Like Mark Rowe says its a reflection of the society these lads come from.

As an ameteur sport there will always be in issue with this as there is only so much you can do to stamp it out.

Very well put on the college life. Very easy to end up carried away with yourself, there are a lot of opportunities to stray, women throwing themselves at lads. Tough life for them!

ManFromCheese

ah its an irish cultural thing and not just a gaa thing. i think its futile just going after the gaa about binge drinking the problem is a lot wider than that

Jarjohn

I really think that lads involved playing in GAA drink alot less than non players of the same age. Most fellas have a bit of cop on and not drink close to games. Never had a problem with a few drinks after a game and have none at least 5 days before a game. After a game its nice to unwind and sit down and have a drink and a chat with players, supporters, family etc.. The sight of young fellas lining up the bar with shorts would be a no go and wouldnt be tolerated. I know if I think a players game is suffering because of his drinking he will be pulled aside and told to moderate it. Often see Soccer and Rugby teams on the beer bigtime and issue never raised. Often a Friday or Saturday night out has to be sacrificed by a player because of a GAA game when other friends may be out. One thing that fellas dont seem to do after games is re-hydrate properly and go to the pub straight after games and knock back pints and wonder why they are drunk so quick and in bits the following day

deisebhoy17

hardybuck wrote: »

Very well put on the college life. Very easy to end up carried away with yourself, there are a lot of opportunities to stray, women throwing themselves at lads. Tough life for them!

what college did you go to? different one to me anyway :pac:

Ando's Saggy Bottom

hardybuck wrote: »

noiniho wrote: »

It was a packed venue late enough in the night, where you'd barely get standing room. I can't say if he was drinking or not as I only saw him for a minute from the shoulder up. I don't think it'd be fair of me to say he was drinking as I didn't see enough, but either way he shouldn't have been there. Even if you weren't drinking you'd be tired from standing on your feet all night and getting to bed late.

What raised my eyebrow was (1)what the feck was he doing here and (2)I'm seeing him on the sauce too often on other occasions - is one of the reasons for this players performance levels dropping in recent seasons.

I did play intercounty once upon a time, and I wouldn't have been a pioneer by any means, but things have become more professional today and if I was on the scene now I'd probably need to have a different lifestyle. I understand what a player goes through to some extent, but you've got to draw the line somewhere.

I'd say nearly everyone in Waterford has a good idea who you're alluding to tbh!

Mountainlad

deisebhoy17 wrote: »

what college did you go to? different one to me anyway :pac:

Ah sure look, Hardy's just a very handsome fella!


All I have to say on this issue is that I don't believe the lads young lads now are drinking anymore than players were 10 years ago and so I think any doubts about players fulfilling their potential on account of drinking might be a bit misguided.

zol 2

scoring forward wrote: »

OK so Charlie will you take over so. I bet i know who would be the first two names on the team sheet if you did.[/QUO

Ya so do i...................Mike Kiely and Jamie Barron!! Keep guessing scoring forward, i'm sure you'll have better luck at the dogs than you have at trying to claim a hurler as a relation!! sad really.

Now when you have something to add to these topics other than Jamie Barron propaganda please don't hesitate to get involved!!

Jarjohn

Western Board Hurling draws made last night, will post football later

Intermediate Group 1: Cappoquin, FMW, Ardmore, Stradbally, Tourin
Group 2: Clashmore, Abbeyside, Ballinameela, Shamrocks, Brickeys
2 groups with top team to semis. Qtrs are 2nd group 1 v 3rd group 2 and 3rd group 1 v 2nd group 2. Both bottom teams relegation final
Round 1: 3rd-5th May

Junior: St Marys, Colligan, Ballysaggart, Modeligo, Geraldines, Kilgobnet
One group Top 4 to semis 1v4 2v3
Round 1: 3rd - 5th May

Junior Snr Attached: Tallow, Lismore, Ballyduff, Ring, Dungarvan
One group top team to final 2v3 semi
Round 1: 3rd - 5th May

Junior Inter attached: Ballysaggart, Cappoquin, Geraldines, Melleray, Clashmore, Shamrocks, Brickeys, Abbeyside. One group with top 4 to qualify for semis 1v4 2v3
Round 1: 3rd- 5th May

U21 A: Semis- Dungarvan v Cappoquin/Abbeyside and Lismore/ClashmorevComeragh Gaels
Starting Aug/Sep

U21 B: Semis- Ardmore/FMW v An Gaeltacht/Ballyduff and St Olivers v Tallow/Brickeys
Starting Aug/Sep

Group 1 of Intermediate a tough one for all involved but great chance for all in Group 2

hardybuck

I see the Eastern Board were hoping to restructure the junior and I think the intermediate championships as well. Junior A & B rather than intermediate attached, senior attached etc. which makes a lot of sense.

Is this likely to cause disruption when it comes to county finals if the West don't have the same format?

deisebhoy17

Jarjohn wrote: »

Western Board Hurling draws made last night, will post football later

Intermediate Group 1: Cappoquin, FMW, Ardmore, Stradbally, Tourin
Group 2: Clashmore, Abbeyside, Ballinameela, Shamrocks, Brickeys
2 groups with top team to semis. Qtrs are 2nd group 1 v 3rd group 2 and 3rd group 1 v 2nd group 2. Both bottom teams relegation final
Round 1: 3rd-5th May

Junior: St Marys, Colligan, Ballysaggart, Modeligo, Geraldines, Kilgobnet
One group Top 4 to semis 1v4 2v3
Round 1: 3rd - 5th May

Junior Snr Attached: Tallow, Lismore, Ballyduff, Ring, Dungarvan
One group top team to final 2v3 semi
Round 1: 3rd - 5th May

Junior Inter attached: Ballysaggart, Cappoquin, Geraldines, Melleray, Clashmore, Shamrocks, Brickeys, Abbeyside. One group with top 4 to qualify for semis 1v4 2v3
Round 1: 3rd- 5th May

U21 A: Semis- Dungarvan v Cappoquin/Abbeyside and Lismore/ClashmorevComeragh Gaels
Starting Aug/Sep

U21 B: Semis- Ardmore/FMW v An Gaeltacht/Ballyduff and St Olivers v Tallow/Brickeys
Starting Aug/Sep

Group 1 of Intermediate a tough one for all involved but great chance for all in Group 2

This idea of Junior and Intermediate Attached really is a complete farce. Makes no sense and certainly wouldnt entice me to keep playing the game if I was an 'attached player'. The 'attached' competitions is basically just saying to these junior players that we dont want you winning the junior championship but we'll give you these competitions to keep you happy. An irrelavant competition imo.

It should be junior proper for all teams good enough and if a second string team is better than a junior club's first string team then so be it. As a result we have a western junior hurling championship with just 6 teams. Laughable

tonc76

deisebhoy17 wrote: »

This idea of Junior and Intermediate Attached really is a complete farce. Makes no sense and certainly wouldnt entice me to keep playing the game if I was an 'attached player'. The 'attached' competitions is basically just saying to these junior players that we dont want you winning the junior championship but we'll give you these competitions to keep you happy. An irrelavant competition imo.

It should be junior proper for all teams good enough and if a second string team is better than a junior club's first string team then so be it. As a result we have a western junior hurling championship with just 6 teams. Laughable

Don't think this is fair to junior only clubs though as what chance would they have of winning a Co final and going up to intermediate?

ManFromCheese

tonc76 wrote: »

Don't think this is fair to junior only clubs though as what chance would they have of winning a Co final and going up to intermediate?

surely a Junior club's first team should be good enough to compete with say a DLS or BG 3rd team? if they cant, they have no business winning county cships and playing intermediate hurling in my opinion. They should all be in together and have a junior A and Junior B type system going

tonc76

ManFromCheese wrote: »

surely a Junior club's first team should be good enough to compete with say a DLS or BG 3rd team? if they cant, they have no business winning county cships and playing intermediate hurling in my opinion. They should all be in together and have a junior A and Junior B type system going

Possibly the case but some junior clubs have a small area to pick from while the likes of DLS and BG have huge catchment areas which afford them the luxury of fielding 3 teams. Its also very hard for junior clubs to recruit as no-one with ambition wants to play junior hurling. This would be even harder to do if there is very little possibility of progressing to intermediate.