Waterford GAA Discussion Thread 2011-2012

Straight Talker

ManFromCheese wrote: »

he did have his chance...did you not see what happened in thurles against cork last year? we were lucky not to be relegated in the league last year and our chances this year dont look great.
do we wait till we're in division 2 and a few young lads are ruined before we make a change?

i understand that they have no money but why arent they beating down derek mcgraths door for example? i know it might be a bit early but hes the type of manager waterford need going forward. he has had success wherever he has went and knows the club scene inside out, hes young and enthuasiastic and has been there as a player.

i was at a club game last year and DLS were playing, michael ryan was sitting not far from in the stand, kevin moran was cleaning up at centre back, ryan starts asking people in the stand, "who's that fella? who's that lad playing centre back?" i wouldnt have believed it only i heard it myself, you couldnt make it up....

If Cody or Jesus himself was on the sideline Waterford wouldn't have won the all ireland last year.

glick6

doz wrote: »

Moran was the obvious choice for this year and he absolutely deserves it.
A strong team IMO and don't think it's a million miles off the XV that will be taking on Clare in June.

Brian o Sullivan unlikely to play. If he doesn't, imagine its a toss up between Gavin o Brien and Jamie Barron as to who is the replacement.

ManFromCheese

Straight Talker wrote: »

If Cody or Jesus himself was on the sideline Waterford wouldn't have won the all ireland last year.

never said anything about winning the all ireland but they should have had cork beaten, crazy substitutions at the end...if we had bet cork i would have fancied our chances v galway, we always beat galway.

Straight Talker

ManFromCheese wrote: »

never said anything about winning the all ireland but they should have had cork beaten, crazy substitutions at the end...if we had bet cork i would have fancied our chances v galway, we always beat galway.

Could haves,would haves and should haves Cork had a far superior bench and outscored Waterford by 7 points to 1 in the closing stages of that match.Galway were a far superior team last year to the Galway team ye beat in 2009 and 2011.

seananigans

Straight Talker wrote: »

Could haves,would haves and should haves Cork had a far superior bench and outscored Waterford by 7 points to 1 in the closing stages of that match.Galway were a far superior team last year to the Galway team ye beat in 2009 and 2011.

statistically the logner a record goes on the closer it is to ending,the ony reason we have such a good record against galway is we rarely have to meet them, and of the recent times, we were luck at least half the time to hold that record

ManFromCheese

well if you look at league and championship records we have mostly beaten galway.

we should have had cork dead and buried, they had a superior bench but waterford had players on their bench that they didnt use at all.

Mountainlad

seananigans wrote: »

statistically the logner a record goes on the closer it is to ending,the ony reason we have such a good record against galway is we rarely have to meet them, and of the recent times, we were luck at least half the time to hold that record

I agree with your point to an extent, we've only played Galway 11 times I think?

We've played Galway 3 times in the past ten years though, and only once could you make any argument that we were 'lucky' to beat them.

Straight Talker

ManFromCheese wrote: »

well if you look at league and championship records we have mostly beaten galway.

we should have had cork dead and buried, they had a superior bench but waterford had players on their bench that they didnt use at all.

What's that they say about the winners writing history?Ye had the bit of luck in the 2010 munster final and we had it last year.I also think the Cork players wanted it more than Waterfords.Their hunger for victory was greater.You also ignored my point about Galway being better last year than they were in 09 and 2011.Galway pushed Kilkenny to the pin of their collars last year and the replay was a close game until the sending off.

lovelypoint

Deskjockey wrote: »

Link is here.

http://www.thestar.ie/star/john-mullane-good-player-not-a-great-player/

Was quite surprised and disappointed to read Ger's piece this morning on Mullane. Following Gers logic, it would seem impossible for any player who did not figure in an All Ireland winning team to ever be considered a great player.

Deskjockey

lovelypoint wrote: »

Was quite surprised and disappointed to read Ger's piece this morning on Mullane. Following Gers logic, it would seem impossible for any player who did not figure in an All Ireland winning team to ever be considered a great player.

In the biggest GAA tradittiom, having read that I hope we absolutely sow it into the cu@¥d

mccarthy37

Its not a bad looking team for Sunday from what I hear UL have some fine players so this could be a decent challenge. I wish people got off Michael Ryan's
back and give the man a chance. If you look at his record with the girls he done a terrific job there, its only the start of the year he's the manager stop all this negative talk its getting a bit insulting.
Last year a lot of people were tipping Fergal Hartley to be a future manager of Waterford who would go for him now after the beating the Under 21's got up in Ennis. I would find it hard to believe Michael did not recognize Kevin Moran after managing De La Salle to Munster glory I sat next to him a few years ago at a match and he was well up on all the names of both teams and his reading of the game was spot on. I still believe we should be concentrating on our underage teams as we are doing fairly well at school level the last few years. I remember when De La Salle won the Dean Ryan Cup a few years ago they were paraded around Walsh Park before a League game to great applause. Well Waterford teams have won the last 3 Dean Ryan's so something is being done right. The next step is where we are falling down badly. Look at the progress Clare and Limerick have made because they have been doing great work at underage levels. Last year Cork got a great run on us when Shane Walsh went off injured. There was never much between us when we were the 2 top teams in Munster but Cork went on to win All Ireland's while we still wait for a break through there. We are in rebuilding mode for the next few year's so a bit of patience will be required. Cork were looking good last year and had made progress with JMB but some of the dual player's have committed to the Footballer's this year so it will be interesting to see what their replacement's will be like but they know that real progress starts at underage.

lovelypoint

mccarthy37 wrote: »

Its not a bad looking team for Sunday from what I hear UL have some fine players so this could be a decent challenge. I wish people got off Michael Ryan's
back and give the man a chance. If you look at his record with the girls he done a terrific job there, its only the start of the year he's the manager stop all this negative talk its getting a bit insulting.
Last year a lot of people were tipping Fergal Hartley to be a future manager of Waterford who would go for him now after the beating the Under 21's got up in Ennis. I would find it hard to believe Michael did not recognize Kevin Moran after managing De La Salle to Munster glory I sat next to him a few years ago at a match and he was well up on all the names of both teams and his reading of the game was spot on. I still believe we should be concentrating on our underage teams as we are doing fairly well at school level the last few years. I remember when De La Salle won the Dean Ryan Cup a few years ago they were paraded around Walsh Park before a League game to great applause. Well Waterford teams have won the last 3 Dean Ryan's so something is being done right. The next step is where we are falling down badly. Look at the progress Clare and Limerick have made because they have been doing great work at underage levels. Last year Cork got a great run on us when Shane Walsh went off injured. There was never much between us when we were the 2 top teams in Munster but Cork went on to win All Ireland's while we still wait for a break through there. We are in rebuilding mode for the next few year's so a bit of patience will be required. Cork were looking good last year and had made progress with JMB but some of the dual player's have committed to the Footballer's this year so it will be interesting to see what their replacement's will be like but they know that real progress starts at underage.

Some good points, but at the same time it would be dangerous to believe we should not be up to anything at senior level 'because we are rebuilding'. What is happening at underage needs to be carried on, and at the same time we need to be moulding what we have into a team that carries a real threat. If any proof were needed as to what is possible in a short space of time, I think we need only look to what Cork achieved last year. All this rebuilding & transition talk can be dangerous I feel, and hope we do not get to a place where players and management are allowed hide because nothing is expected of them.

Clamouring for instant success is pointless, but we need to be pushing ourselves, and I think some hard questions need to be asked. A few that would spring to mind would be why so many young talented players are walking away from the panel, either temporarily or permanently, at a time when we need everyone we have. Last years debacle to Cork should be examined too, and hard lessons learned, if they have not been already.

deisebhoy17

ManFromCheese wrote: »

i was at a club game last year and DLS were playing, michael ryan was sitting not far from in the stand, kevin moran was cleaning up at centre back, ryan starts asking people in the stand, "who's that fella? who's that lad playing centre back?" i wouldnt have believed it only i heard it myself, you couldnt make it up....

you do realise the guy managed de la salle to co and munster championship a couple years ago. id put my mortgage on it that he knows who kevin moran is and you picked him up wrong

funny story all the same

Deise Tom

ManFromCheese wrote: »

i dont live in waterford and i have a full time job, it wouldnt work tom.

Gerald McCarthy, Justin McCarthy & Davy Fitzgerald did not live in Waterford & if memory serves me right neither did the fella that was over waterford in 1993. His name wont come to me right now.

Deise Tom

ManFromCheese wrote: »

never said anything about winning the all ireland but they should have had cork beaten, crazy substitutions at the end...if we had bet cork i would have fancied our chances v galway, we always beat galway.

Managers get it right one day & could get it wrong the next. Yes the subs used against Cork did not work on the day, but the subs used against Clare in the semi final did work.

mccarthy37

Deise Tom wrote: »

Gerald McCarthy, Justin McCarthy & Davy Fitzgerald did not live in Waterford & if memory serves me right neither did the fella that was over waterford in 1993. His name wont come to me right now.

Georgy Leahy will I ever forget '93. He is a Kilkenny man.

lovelypoint

Deise Tom wrote: »

Managers get it right one day & could get it wrong the next. Yes the subs used against Cork did not work on the day, but the subs used against Clare in the semi final did work.

In fairness, the management team against Cork chose to discard everything that had worked so well up until that point, which makes it all the more frustrating. So, it is not so much a point of the subs on that day not working, while on another day they would have, but rather a complete u-turn by management in those they showed they trusted to get the job done, and the fact we showed no faith in a lot of our players by refusing to bring them on when fresh legs were sorely needed. Cork held their faith in their panel, brought on fresh legs, and won the game.

In any case, this is old ground, but it is important not to gloss over critical mistakes, if we are to learn and improve.

ManFromCheese

deisebhoy17 wrote: »

you do realise the guy managed de la salle to co and munster championship a couple years ago. id put my mortgage on it that he knows who kevin moran is and you picked him up wrong

funny story all the same

i wouldnt have believed it myself only i was sitting beside him and he honestly didnt realise it was moran...im well aware he had "managed" DLS a few years back.

ManFromCheese

Deise Tom wrote: »

Gerald McCarthy, Justin McCarthy & Davy Fitzgerald did not live in Waterford & if memory serves me right neither did the fella that was over waterford in 1993. His name wont come to me right now.

georgie leahy was in charge in 1993.

im living in the west of ireland tom

ManFromCheese

Deise Tom wrote: »

Managers get it right one day & could get it wrong the next. Yes the subs used against Cork did not work on the day, but the subs used against Clare in the semi final did work.

shane casey hadnt played all year and he left kelly on the sideline, i know which 1 of the 2 id be bringing on if i needed a score, sher he doesnt have casey even on the panel this year, yet he was one of the first subs in in waterfords last cship game

Jarjohn

ManFromCheese wrote: »

i wouldnt have believed it myself only i was sitting beside him and he honestly didnt realise it was moran...im well aware he had "managed" DLS a few years back.

Maybe you were mistaken and it wasnt Michael Ryan:D. Dont believe the story at all. You have an obvious dislike for him which is your opinion but dont keep cutting the man at every opportunity.

lovelypoint

Does anyone know what the story is with the management and selection team for this year. Who else is there with Michael Ryan for the year ?

Mountainlad

ManFromCheese wrote: »

i wouldnt have believed it myself only i was sitting beside him and he honestly didnt realise it was moran...im well aware he had "managed" DLS a few years back.

Oh you were sitting beside him, you were? And did you take that chance to tell him what you thought of him seen as you said you'd say it to his face?

ManFromCheese

Jarjohn wrote: »

Maybe you were mistaken and it wasnt Michael Ryan:D. Dont believe the story at all. You have an obvious dislike for him which is your opinion but dont keep cutting the man at every opportunity.

believe what you want to believe, it happened and there were others with me who heard it also.

i can have an opinion if i want.

we'll wait and see how he does this year so....

deisebhoy17

Manfromcheese Ryan wouldnt have been my first choice for the job when he got it either and I still dont beleive he is the right man. But hes there now he has another year to run and in fairness hes entitled to see that out. Last year was dissappointing alright it wasnt such a disaster that he should get the bullett.

I dont think it would serve any purpose in changing managers again this season if the same mistakes come up again this year by all means its time for him to go.
No point going off ranting the way you are we had it here with davy fitz for years

Mountainlad

Half time scores courtesy of Waterford GAA on twitter:

Hurling:

Waterford 0-11 UL 1-08

Football:

Waterford 0-03 Tipperary 0-04

Hurlers beaten 1-20 to 0-18.

Football is going to extra time. Be great if they could win it, get to the final.

deisebhoy17

Mountainlad wrote: »

Half time scores courtesy of Waterford GAA on twitter:

Hurling:

Waterford 0-11 UL 1-08

Football:

Waterford 0-03 Tipperary 0-04

Hurlers beaten 1-20 to 0-18.

Football is going to extra time. Be great if they could win it, get to the final.

Thats a bad result. really should be beating any college team

noiniho

lovelypoint wrote: »

Does anyone know what the story is with the management and selection team for this year. Who else is there with Michael Ryan for the year ?

Is Sean Cullinane still involved? If not that's four different selectors gone in one season (last season)

Doesn't look great does it? If it happened in a junior setup you would be looking over your shoulder as a manager.

deisebhoy17

noiniho wrote: »

Is Sean Cullinane still involved? If not that's four different selectors gone in one season (last season)

Doesn't look great does it? If it happened in a junior setup you would be looking over your shoulder as a manager.

cullinane is still there along with ray murphy of dls

dzilla

deisebhoy17 wrote: »

Thats a bad result. really should be beating any college team

Would have liked a win but college will wlways be a bit fitter this time of year.

Any idea of scorers?