Cycling/Walking around the city

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galwaycyclist wrote: »

The Walking and Cycling Strategy for the city and environs is now finally coming before the city council at their next meeting on Monday 24th September at 4pm.

There is a lobbying campaign going on at the moment (By Cycling Campaign and An Mheitheal Rothar from Uni) looking to get changes made under the following headings.

• Zebra Crossings
  Reason: Current draft does not mention them
• Child Friendly Roads
  Residential roads that are not main roads that are managed for something other than moving cars.
• Vehicle Restricted Streets instead of Pedestrian Zones
  Reason: Shop Street Pedestrianisation shut down a key cross-city cycle route with no clear alternatives provided. Want it to happen again with Raven Terrace or Middle St?
• Roads around educational insitutions
  Reason: Current strategy contains a curious lack of measures to improve access to Uni Campus etc
• Pinch points and road narrowings
  Reason: Current strategy proposes to base traffic calming on measures that make cycling conditions dangerous and uncomfortable, traffic islands, build outs, chicanes etc
• Speed Management Strategy
  Reason: Creating a walking and cycling friendly envirnoment is about the whole city - not just a token city centre 30kph zone. eg 50kph means 50kph - say on Shantalla Rd or Kingston

If anyone would like more info or preferably to help talking to councillors please PM me.

Probably to late to PM - but if anybody here can show up on Bike's to City Hall in the next hour "An Mheitheal Rothar" from NUIG are organising a "Critical Mass" style cycle to City Hall before the meeting starts at 16h00.

Sponge Bob

On yeer bikes lads the rain should hold off till 5. Down to College Road with ye.

snubbleste

But but I've just put my best lycra suit in the wash

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snubbleste wrote: »

But but I've just put my best lycra suit in the wash

Dont worry - you will fit in with the rest of those present with out it. 99% sure it will be Lyrca Free.

Sponge Bob

If the meeting was at 10am Sunday in Barna twould be wall to wall Lycra. Not today.

yer man!

Is this a cycle lane on the dyke road or what is it? it connects to the footpath near the bridge and goes to the footpath near the black box. I've always thought it was a dyke but it seems to be very flat and cyclable.

https://maps.google.ie/maps?q=galway&ll=53.28195,-9.056362&spn=0.001216,0.002411&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&hnear=Galway,+County+Galway&gl=ie&t=h&z=19&layer=c&cbll=53.28195,-9.056362&panoid=NCWZL0qcca5J7cXyAlo1mQ&cbp=12,151.39,,0,2.6

snubbleste

It's a footpath.

at1withmyself

I cycle across the city every day and use most of this route, on the route I would suggest going under the Q bridge and coming up the steps (town side) which will leave her on the correct side of the cycle lane. From there its pretty much a cycle lane all the way and as pointed the roundabout in Westside being the only real obsticle so take care there. As a kid I went to the same school and plenty of teens cycling up & down both sides of the hill without issue.

If she can get a locker and leave a Towel there for when she arrives along with some deo can be enough to dry off instead of being flustered and sweaty for the day although a shower if available is better.

As for the weather I don't get wet that often so it doesn't rain that much but a good breathable jacket can be enough for light showers / rain with a decent cap under the helmet.

If she is a bit of a 'dreamer' I'd strongly advice against using an MP3 player (can't practice what I preach here though!).

I find the drivers in most very accomodating so just encourage her to follow the lights and to leave with enough time so she's not rushing and she'll be fine.

Finally ensure the bike is in good working order, chain oiled, tyres pumped to correct pressure and brakes and gears working. Nothing worse then seeing kids with huge backpacks pushing a bike with almost flat tyres in pain!

Galwaymother wrote: »

Oh I know it's great that she wants to cycle, she always took the bus to school, after primary school, to which she was driven. we weren't going to let her become one of these car-bound kids!

That's mainly why I say she is not very road-aware, she doesn't walk nor cycle much anywhere, always takes buses etc. Also she's a bit of a dreamer.

It's mainly the route I'm worried about, plus I know that roads can get very slippy etc in the rain, and visibility is bad.

I would not cycle this route myself twice everyday in winter, I feel she would be even less able to cope with the 'aggression' of some car drivers, the roughness ( and unpredictability!) of the weather, having to wear all weather-gear, arriving sweaty and flustered into school, etc.
Also, what about car fumes? Is that an aspect to take into consideration, as I see it mentioned earlier in the thread!

Well done on cycling that Barna road as a kid!
I tried to go on a cycle from Salthill along the coast a few years ago and was run off the road by speeding cars! I felt so vulnerable with such narrowness and the terrible surface on the left side of the road...
Even walkers are taking their lives into their own hands there I feel!

P.S.: When I say she doesn't walk much, I mean on suburbian roads! She does walk a lot in town or in the country! And we encourage her to cycle around the estate...

galwaycyclist

galwaycyclist wrote: »

The Walking and Cycling Strategy for the city and environs is now finally coming before the city council at their next meeting on Monday 24th September at 4pm.

There is a lobbying campaign going on at the moment (By Cycling Campaign and An Mheitheal Rothar from Uni) looking to get changes made under the following headings.

• Zebra Crossings
  Reason: Current draft does not mention them
• Child Friendly Roads
  Residential roads that are not main roads that are managed for something other than moving cars.
• Vehicle Restricted Streets instead of Pedestrian Zones
  Reason: Shop Street Pedestrianisation shut down a key cross-city cycle route with no clear alternatives provided. Want it to happen again with Raven Terrace or Middle St?
• Roads around educational insitutions
  Reason: Current strategy contains a curious lack of measures to improve access to Uni Campus etc
• Pinch points and road narrowings
  Reason: Current strategy proposes to base traffic calming on measures that make cycling conditions dangerous and uncomfortable, traffic islands, build outs, chicanes etc
• Speed Management Strategy
  Reason: Creating a walking and cycling friendly envirnoment is about the whole city - not just a token city centre 30kph zone. eg 50kph means 50kph - say on Shantalla Rd or Kingston

If anyone would like more info or preferably to help talking to councillors please PM me.

Ok there was a robust discussion from 4pm to 7pm. But the strategy did not get adopted. The officials are still trying to fight a rearguard action to stop the document being amended. The strategy is to be brought back before the next meeting of the council to discuss the above motions.

I won't give a blow by blow account. There appears to be broad cross party support for the amendments (which is why they are being brought). They pretty much all involve issues that have been repeatedly raised with, and rejected by, the city officials/gtu either at Transport Committee level or in separate meetings.

Notwithstanding this Joe Tansey sought to represent the matters raised as new issues requiring more time for consideration. I reckon the deferal mainly happened because some councillors were late coming back from their break so Mayor Terry Flaherty

There was also an attempt by the officials to have a previous amendement removed. This was inserted by the Transport SPC acknowledging the status of cyclists as drivers Irish traffic law. They appear to be working in co-operation with a particular labour councillor on this one. The same councillor has failed to reply to repeated requests for meetings and failed to show up for one meeting that was arranged to discuss the strategy.

Sponge Bob

The same officials will probably refuse to discuss amendments next time ( and every other time) and claim that they will lose €1.8m or €99.9m in funding if the entire package is not passed immediately by the councillors.

Get the mayor to demand a clear position paper on every proposed amendment from the officials for distribution to each councillor in good time and not have some made up ambush excuses on the night.

Then deal with all the non controversial ones from the councillors point of view 'on the nod' in one package before the discussion starts.

If you start on a controversial one you rapidly run out of time.

Iwannahurl

Galwaymother wrote: »

Hi!
My daughter who is just 14, and a very occasional cyclist, wants to start cycling to and back from school.

The route would be from Ballinfoile Park, through the Dyke Road, up on to the Q. bridge, then throught Westside etc. to St.Enda's Secondary in Threadneedle Road. And return...

I maintain that it is not safe enough, especially when it's raining/ dark/ windy, with the very narrow Dyke Road, and many roundabouts etc, and the deadly junction on Taylor's hill, as well as steep hills etc. She would always have an very heavy bag on her shoulders.
She's not very road aware I find, though she is athletic so the physical aspect would not be a problem.

I am not a driver, and my husband, who is, maintains it's fine and she should be allowed. There are cycle lanes on the bridge, and maybe further?

To be honest, I'd rather let her cycle in Paris than in Galway! I am a cyclist and stopped cycling once I was out in the suburbs...

What do the Galway cyclists here think?

Fair play to you both.

Just under 6km, according to Google Maps, so very cyclable distance-wise.

Personally I hate cycling the Q Bridge, the Bodkin Roundabout is evil, and the cycle paths from the Kirwan to Bodkin are a joke.

However, having looked at the map, it does look like a direct route, particularly if the SQR is the better option for the last leg.

however, it is often the case that cyclists are willing to take somewhat longer routes if they are quieter. So would you consider something like this route?

It's not that much longer, and as far as I can see there is only one roundabout to be negotiated. In my experience that roundabout (Deane) is typically clogged with cars at rush hour, which has the disadvantage of cyclists being a bit squeezed on it but the advantage that the cars (most of them in the wrong lane, not indicating and stopping in the yellow box, btw) are going at a snail's pace.

My pet peeve at that specific location is that there are two lanes crammed in to maximise space for cars, from there up to the junction at the top of Threadneedle Road.*** It makes me cringe every time I see schoolchildren trying to squeeze past in the 30cm motorists leave for them between the cars and the kerb. I always overtake on the right.

I'm not a cycling expert, though I have been cycling since I was in primary school, so I would make no claims regarding what is the best choice of route. However, I would suggest that you try it out together over a couple of weekends, to get a feel for both legs of the journey and identify any potential barriers.

Any questions, send me a PM. Good luck.



***Sorry, doesn't look as if that link is working properly. If you zoom in to the Taylor's Hill/Threadneedle Road junction on StreetView, and look back towards the Bishop O'Donnell Road, you will see the way cars are crammed into narrow lanes, with no room left for cyclists at peak times.

Sponge Bob

Sponge Bob wrote: »

The same officials will probably refuse to discuss amendments next time ( and every other time) and claim that they will lose €1.8m or €99.9m in funding if the entire package is not passed immediately by the councillors.

Aw jebus...why did you not admit they Already tried that one on. Typical.
http://www.galwaynews.ie/27939-amendments-cycle-plan-‘could-put-funds-risk’

ciotog

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Aw jebus...why did you not admit they Already tried that one on. Typical.
http://www.galwaynews.ie/27939-amendments-cycle-plan-%E2%80%98could-put-funds-risk%E2%80%99

They really don't like the amendment which relates to the classification of a cycle, under Irish road traffic legislation, as a vehicle. It requires that they recognise it is illegal to cycle on a footway and that the default solution is to put cyclists on the same surface as the roadway.

Sponge Bob

It is illegal to cycle on a footway.

However there are places where one can safely do so without knocking over grannies and kids...and places where this is dangerous. Policing should be concentrated in the latter type of area.

Marys Road is an good example of where it is dangerous and perhaps more ramps from path <> road might persuade the cyclists to obey the law where a conflict arises with enforcement concentrated on those who ignore the opportunity.

Should someone be done for cycling UP shop st @ 8am. No.

Iwannahurl

Sponge Bob wrote: »

It is illegal to cycle on a footway.

However there are places where one can safely do so without knocking over grannies and kids...and places where this is dangerous. Policing should be concentrated in the latter type of area.

Why would one do so, especially if it is illegal?

Sponge Bob

Iwannahurl wrote: »

Why would one do so, especially if it is illegal?

Because one does not have a light on the bike and is dressed in dark clothing which is unsuitable for road cycling at night in winter. So that breed inflicts themselves on pedestrians instead.

Have you never seen an unlit and unsafe cyclist in Galway Hurl ???

Iwannahurl

Correct me if I'm getting the wrong impression, but are you saying that not having lights on ones bike (totally illegal, as well as being stupid and irresponsible, IMO) is a valid reason for cycling on footpaths?

We can leave their sartorial preferences out of this, since there are no (official) fashion police out on patrol as yet.

You also say that "policing should be concentrated in the latter type of area", ie stretches of footpath where "grannies and kids" might get knocked over by footpath cyclists.

Correct me again if I am making an incorrect inference, but are you suggesting that, in a context where illegally unlit cyclists are illegally cycling on footpaths, that "policing should be concentrated" only in areas where grannies and kids might get knocked over?

Sponge Bob

Iwannahurl wrote: »

Correct me if I'm getting the wrong impression, Correct me again if I am making an incorrect inference, "policing should be concentrated" only in areas where grannies and kids might get knocked over?

Consider yourself corrected twice.

galwaycyclist

I should point out that other amendments proposed by the Cycling Campaign accept and endorse a role for spaces where cyclists share with pedestrians and advocate a "code of conduct" for cyclists in such situations.

The city officials are opposed to this "code of conduct" suggestion as they say it is not their job to educate people on how to use the roads. They are of the view that this is the job of the RSA and that the relevant document is the Rules of the Road.

Sponge Bob

galwaycyclist wrote: »

I should point out that other amendments proposed by the Cycling Campaign accept and endorse a role for spaces where cyclists share with pedestrians and advocate a "code of conduct" for cyclists in such situations..

Eminently sensible idea.

They should also extend the vehicle impounding regime ...the one described recently by a local FG senator, to egregious breaches of such a code simply by giving the code By Law status.

galwaycyclist

Iwannahurl wrote: »

Correct me if I'm getting the wrong impression, but are you saying that not having lights on ones bike (totally illegal, as well as being stupid and irresponsible, IMO) is a valid reason for cycling on footpaths?

We can leave their sartorial preferences out of this, since there are no (official) fashion police out on patrol as yet.

You also say that "policing should be concentrated in the latter type of area", ie stretches of footpath where "grannies and kids" might get knocked over by footpath cyclists.

Correct me again if I am making an incorrect inference, but are you suggesting that, in a context where illegally unlit cyclists are illegally cycling on footpaths, that "policing should be concentrated" only in areas where grannies and kids might get knocked over?

In fairness to Spongebob he did not use the word only. We need to move away from simply concentrating on footpath cycling and focus on the wider problem. The wider problem is an absence of policing and in my view much footpath cycling occurs in response to road conditions that result from an absence of policing.

Iwannahurl

galwaycyclist wrote: »

In fairness to Spongebob he did not use the word only. We need to move away from simply concentrating on footpath cycling and focus on the wider problem. The wider problem is an absence of policing and in my view much footpath cycling occurs in response to road conditions that result from an absence of policing.

Precisely.

Policing should be concentrated on where the greater danger is, and policy should be concentrated on where the greater good is. Or something along those lines that might be more ramified than a 'soundbite' allows.

Sponge Bob

galwaycyclist wrote: »

The wider problem is an absence of policing and in my view much footpath cycling occurs in response to road conditions that result from an absence of policing.

There are other considerations too. At this time of year a slippery road slush of fallen leaves and an admixture of oil can make spaces near kerbs very dangerous. Blocked drains can cause severe spot flooding. This forces cyclists onto footpaths who would ordinarily not do so. Alternatively it forced them further out on the carriageway which is perfectly fair.

Once the leaves have fallen and been cleared and the drains have been pumped, say by late November, the situation resolves itself.

By the same logic the roads may be better salted than the paths on a frosty morning in January, forcing pedestrians onto the roadway so they can actually walk.

Therefore the enforcement regime should be adaptable to particular conditions that apply for 6-8 weeks on tree lined roads as in that example rather than enforce an anally narrow interpretation of the Rules of the Road which is unsuitable at that particular time.

Impounding bikes, just like cars, would be an excellent solution for egregious breaches of course.

The solution in one of the pinch points, Marys Road, is to ban car parking altogether in October and November owing to the serious annual degradation of safe roadspace and not to restore it until the slush is cleared. This would mean the street cleaners have to talk to Joe Tansey and the lads of course.

antoobrien

Sponge Bob wrote: »

There are other considerations too. At this time of year a slippery road slush of fallen leaves and an admixture of oil can make spaces near kerbs very dangerous. Blocked drains can cause severe spot flooding. This forces cyclists onto footpaths who would ordinarily not do so. Alternatively it forced them further out on the carriageway which is perfectly fair.

Once the leaves have fallen and been cleared and the drains have been pumped, say by late November, the situation resolves itself.

By the same logic the roads may be better salted than the paths on a frosty morning in January, forcing pedestrians onto the roadway so they can actually walk.

Therefore the enforcement regime should be adaptable to particular conditions that apply for 6-8 weeks on tree lined roads as in that example rather than enforce an anally narrow interpretation of the Rules of the Road which is unsuitable at that particular time.

Hang on a sec Spongebob that's a common sense approach to policing. We can't be having that, the enitre situation would just revert to anarchy because the guards will be able to choose which laws make no sense so they can ignore them :rolleyes:

Iwannahurl

Occasional policing would be a start, never mind "seasonal" or "anal".

Sponge Bob

antoobrien wrote: »

Hang on a sec Spongebob that's a common sense approach to policing.

We have millions of laws, sure the guards were in charge of Noxious Weeds for around 75 years and nobody was getting done at al for 50 of theml so they simply took the noxious weeds enforcement off the guards a year or two back.

Best thing is for Galwaycyclist to suggest applicable packages of laws for particular situations to the Guards and let them enforce those 'packages' according to locality/conditions.

I don't suppose anyone ever saw the Traffic Corps on foot ..did they??

MrTsSnickers

Hi all, I've recently gotten a bike (by recently, I mean yesterday), I can cycle but I'm a novice.

I know the rules of the road etc but does anyone know of anywhere that I could practice (around the east of the city i.e. Roscam/suburbs i.e. Oranmore) so as to gain a bit of confidence on the road with me rothar without endangering myself or others. I've been going around my estate, which is fine but I have that mastered now and want to push on while i'm motivated.

Also, are there any clubs near this area that aren't too serious, like I said I'm a novice so I don't think that 30k is for me just yet!

Thanks.

Iwannahurl

MrTsSnickers wrote: »

Hi all, I've recently gotten a bike (by recently, I mean yesterday), I can cycle but I'm a novice.

I know the rules of the road etc but does anyone know of anywhere that I could practice (around the east of the city i.e. Roscam/suburbs i.e. Oranmore) so as to gain a bit of confidence on the road with me rothar without endangering myself or others. I've been going around my estate, which is fine but I have that mastered now and want to push on while i'm motivated.

Also, are there any clubs near this area that aren't too serious, like I said I'm a novice so I don't think that 30k is for me just yet!

Thanks.

Well done.

First up, the RoTR is less than the whole story, especially in Galway.

For cycling in the city I would recommend that you get hold of the book Cyclecraft, by the legendary John Franklin. It's available in all branches of Galway County Libraries, afaik, including the three city libraries.

Members of the Galway Cycling Campaign post in this forum fairly often; they're the ones that know all the ins and outs of the cycling experience in Galway. Here's one such post, earlier in this thread, which also mentions their own Cycle Skills leaflet.

If you're primarily/also interested in cycling as a sport (30k spins and all that) check out the Sports > Cycling forum on Boards. There are commuter/utility cycling threads in there too.

There is no dedicated "Active Commuting" forum on Boards yet, but watch this space.

Best of luck.

galwaycyclist

Keith Finnegan show is looking at cycling in the city this morning. They are looking for comments from city cyclists and there will be a studio debate at 11am.

crusher000

Broken glass , broken glass on most of the cycle paths. I have a road bike and try not to eyre the motorists by cyling on the road when a path is provided for me . But the level of glass is shameful.