More proof of Healy Rae gombeenism

BaZmO*

HellFireClub wrote: »

Because it matters. Perception matters, if we portray ourselves as an island full of neanderthal corrupt brass necked arsehóles, then that is what we will be viewed as.

People around the world, Irish people who might ever have been inclined to come here to create jobs, who might have some wealth, do you think you would make a positive investment decision in relation to this place when this is how we present ourselves???

Every country in the world can be labelled with a stereotypical perception, and if people want to base their opinions on stereotypes well then they are fools.

Every country has their fair share of corruption, we are no different.

HellFireClub wrote: »

We can't borrow on the financial markets because our credibility is in absolute tatters and we have let ourselves look like a bunch of incompetent stoogies, then it turns out that even though we are completely dependent upon the goodwill of others now just to run the country every day, that we allow this kind of waste to go on???

And deservedly so as it's not based on a perception or a stereotype, it's based on fact. We fvcked up and we're getting punished for it, that's life.
Now if only we could apply that type of cause and effect to our internal matters we'd be in better shape.

It's also worth noting that we're not the only ones that fvcked, plenty of other countries made a bigger mess of their own affairs.

bamboozle

By Fiach Kelly Political Correspondent

Saturday April 02 2011

THE Healy-Raes are still keeping it in the family -- with new TD Michael hiring his brother Danny as his Oireachtas secretary and giving his vacant council seat to Danny's son.

Michael Healy-Rae was previously secretarial assistant to his father Jackie, whose Dail seat he has now taken -- and Danny will now take up the assistant's role, which has a starting salary of around €23,000.
Danny is also a councillor with Kerry County Council, and his son Johnny Healy-Rae will now sit beside him in the council chamber.
Michael last night said he needed someone he could rely on completely.
He has kept on Jackie's parliamentary assistant, a position that comes with a salary between €41,092 and €52,200.
The two brothers were embroiled in controversy last year when this newspaper revealed they were paid almost €110,000 between them for one year's service on Kerry County Council. Danny and Michael were paid a total of €196,000 for 2008 and 2009 in wages and expenses. And mayors, of whom Michael was one, get extra allowances while they hold the office.
Michael received €74,342 in 2008 and €39,663 the following year, with Danny getting €32,400 and €49,376 for each year respectively.

HellFireClub

kippy wrote: »

I never said anyone loves us because of who we are........
Look, I understand your anger but your earlier comments about this country and it's people are completely unwarranted. I take great offence to them.

Yep, there are crooks all over the shop and yes, we have issues in bringing them to task,

I'm sorry you take offence, I think what I have said about this country is dead accurate and spot on. Why do you think the country is in the state that is in, do you think like that it just happened!?! That we just woke up one morning to find the place in bits?!?

What is going on here, is a direct result of the sickening greed that is tolerated by EVERYONE living on this island. Greed that is the subject of this thead.

If you think there is anything of substance that is positive about Ireland at the moment, then by all means, throw them up here and we'll discuss them. I can't see any, the place is a disgusting place to live. People, almost stupidly, fail to see any connection or relationship between the state of the country at every level, (be it anti-social behaviour that infests every community, and their own responsibility as citizens.

Here's an example, if you are ever in a minor road traffic incident in this country, as in a very minor scrape, you can bet your only arsehóle on the fact that the person who you tipped, will go off and get a main dealer estimate done, maximising the cost to you and your insurance, they will make a claim against you, get a cheque for 2K off you or your insurance company, and then never get the work done or pay some poor Polish fúcker 50 quid to get it sorted on the cheap!

This is the mentality that runs straight through this country, where any person will use the first opportunity to put a saddle on you.

HellFireClub

BaZmO* wrote: »

And deservedly so as it's not based on a perception or a stereotype, it's based on fact. We fvcked up and we're getting punished for it, that's life.
Now if only we could apply that type of cause and effect to our internal matters we'd be in better shape.

It's also worth noting that we're not the only ones that fvcked, plenty of other countries made a bigger mess of their own affairs.

Yeah, and my argument is that we have yet again learnt absolutely NOTHING, and we are STILL fúcking up, when we have news stories like this emerging and the person behind the story telling the nation that it wasn't him and think's that this is the end of the story, thereby sending out the message that we STILL tolerate this kind of corruption and waste.

And as for, "oh it's not just here it happens here", don't give me that auld chestnut. That's another thing I dispise about this dump, is the constant toleration of medicoracy, that is always followed by the excuse, "oh sure it happens everywhere".

BaZmO*

HellFireClub wrote: »

Here's an example, if you are ever in a minor road traffic incident in this country, as in a very minor scrape, you can bet your only arsehóle on the fact that the person who you tipped, will go off and get a main dealer estimate done, maximising the cost to you and your insurance, they will make a claim against you, get a cheque for 2K off you or your insurance company, and then never get the work done or pay some poor Polish fúcker 50 quid to get it sorted on the cheap!

This is the mentality that runs straight through this country, where any person will use the first opportunity to put a saddle on you.

That's just blatant cynicism.

I've been involved in a couple of minor tips and one major "tip" during my years driving.

Major one went through insurance so I don't now the garage that did the work. As for the minor tips, first one the girl just went to a local garage. Second one, I gave the woman my details and she never followed up on it. Third one, someone hit me and I just let it go.

What are you basing your estimates on?

BaZmO*

HellFireClub wrote: »

And as for, "oh it's not just here it happens here", don't give me that auld chestnut. That's another thing I dispise about this dump, is the constant toleration of medicoracy, that is always followed by the excuse, "oh sure it happens everywhere".

Don't take my comments out of context, I was strictly refferring to your comments about how we are perceived by other countries and I was making the point that corruption happens in every country, which it does. Generally we have a good reputation internationally.

HellFireClub

BaZmO* wrote: »

Don't take my comments out of context, I was strictly refferring to your comments about how we are perceived by other countries and I was making the point that corruption happens in every country, which it does. Generally we have a good reputation internationally.

You are completely wrong there, we are a laughing stock nation that is viewed as the drunken uncle of Europe, wandering around looking for structural funds one day in order to get a treaty signed and then telling everyone else to copy us the next day 'cos aren't we so brilliant with managing our economy and then all off a sudden, BANG, we can't even afford to turn the lights on. People everywhere are laughing at the absolute state of us and down largely to people like the Healy-Rae's, who are absolutely and utterly shameless.

BaZmO*

HellFireClub wrote: »

You are completely wrong there, we are a laughing stock nation that is viewed as the drunken uncle of Europe, wandering around looking for structural funds one day in order to get a treaty signed and then telling everyone else to copy us the next day 'cos aren't we so brilliant with managing our economy and then all off a sudden, BANG, we can't even afford to turn the lights on. People everywhere are laughing at the absolute state of us and down largely to people like the Healy-Rae's, who are absolutely and utterly shameless.

I'm sorry but you're so wrong on that one.

dpe

BaZmO* wrote: »

Every country in the world can be labelled with a stereotypical perception, and if people want to base their opinions on stereotypes well then they are fools.

Every country has their fair share of corruption, we are no different

Its not the corruption per se (bad as that is), its the nod and wink that goes with it, the general acceptance that brown envelopes are the way things get done in Ireland. Feathering one's nest is routinely condoned with a "wish I'd thought of that" admiration. You only have to look at the inexplicable (and continued) popularity of a certain former Taoiseach to see that.

BaZmO* wrote: »

Don't take my comments out of context, I was strictly refferring to your comments about how we are perceived by other countries and I was making the point that corruption happens in every country, which it does. Generally we have a good reputation internationally.

Sorry, but you don't. Relative to Greece or Italy maybe, but that's hardly a good place to be. Ireland scores low on the so-called "corruption Index" but perceptions of Ireland have really been harmed by lots of cases where wrongdoing has been found, but no-one is ever brought to book (in everything from political corruption to church pedos). Its the failure to prosecute that's hurting Ireland's reputation. Hell, the Italians have even managed to put Berlusconi on trial for something. Who's in the dock here?

PatsytheNazi

HellFireClub wrote: »

You are completely wrong there, we are a laughing stock nation that is viewed as the drunken uncle of Europe, wandering around looking for structural funds one day in order to get a treaty signed and then telling everyone else to copy us the next day 'cos aren't we so brilliant with managing our economy and then all off a sudden, BANG, we can't even afford to turn the lights on. People everywhere are laughing at the absolute state of us and down largely to people like the Healy-Rae's, who are absolutely and utterly shameless.

Well I'm not happy about MHR, since the IMF and many in the EU are praising our "trying to be the best boy " approach to please Brussels approach, I would have thought we are been looked upon better and IMF statements were there to back it up

On the Corruption Perception Index, we at 8 score better than other countries such as USA 7.1, UK 7.6, Spain 6.1 and Italy 3.9 :eek:

http://www.transparency.org/policy_research/surveys_indices/cpi/2010/results

Liam Byrne

bluewolf wrote: »

Given everything else that's happened then I think resigning is a bit much for abuse of the phone lines?
What else do you think should happen or do you think he should resign too? And how likely is that given that as someone else said, he was nowhere near Dublin anyway so nobody could prove it?

Irrelevant. He repeatedly refused to admit that it was wrong and an abuse of taxpayers money.

THAT is why he needs to resign.

Whoever made the calls should obviously be fired, but Healy-Rae is unsuitable for public office because he doesn't know right from wrong.

BaZmO*

dpe wrote: »

Its not the corruption per se (bad as that is), its the nod and wink that goes with it, the general acceptance that brown envelopes are the way things get done in Ireland. Feathering one's nest is routinely condoned with a "wish I'd thought of that" admiration. You only have to look at the inexplicable (and continued) popularity of a certain former Taoiseach to see that.

You'd swear I was an apologist for any corruption that goes on here. I'm not. I was just making the point that the corruption/nepotism/nod and a wink culture, call it what you will, happens in every country. And I'm certainly not saying it's right, but you you can't say that the whole international community thinks we're a back water when it's not the case.

dpe wrote: »

Sorry, but you don't. Relative to Greece or Italy maybe, but that's hardly a good place to be.

In the short term maybe, but as a country (and going back to my original point) we generally have a good reputation internationally. Look at the amount of international companies that have set up base here. If we were such a corrupt despot nation they wouldn't come near us. For a population of 4 million we punch well above our weight.

dpe wrote: »

(in everything from political corruption to church pedos).

But how many other countries could that apply to? The church thing was a Catholic church issue that was covered up in many other countries. I agree with your general point though, but again it happens in other countries too. The impression being given is that the rest of the world sits and looks at Ireland and thinks that we're a total mess, the rest of the world don't really give a sh1t about our day to day domestic stuff.

dpe wrote: »

Hell, the Italians have even managed to put Berlusconi on trial for something. Who's in the dock here?

Putting a politician on trial means nothing unless the accusations stick, as we've learned from the many tribunals.

kippy

HellFireClub wrote: »

I'm sorry you take offence, I think what I have said about this country is dead accurate and spot on. Why do you think the country is in the state that is in, do you think like that it just happened!?! That we just woke up one morning to find the place in bits?!?

What is going on here, is a direct result of the sickening greed that is tolerated by EVERYONE living on this island. Greed that is the subject of this thead.

If you think there is anything of substance that is positive about Ireland at the moment, then by all means, throw them up here and we'll discuss them. I can't see any, the place is a disgusting place to live. People, almost stupidly, fail to see any connection or relationship between the state of the country at every level, (be it anti-social behaviour that infests every community, and their own responsibility as citizens.

Here's an example, if you are ever in a minor road traffic incident in this country, as in a very minor scrape, you can bet your only arsehóle on the fact that the person who you tipped, will go off and get a main dealer estimate done, maximising the cost to you and your insurance, they will make a claim against you, get a cheque for 2K off you or your insurance company, and then never get the work done or pay some poor Polish fúcker 50 quid to get it sorted on the cheap!

This is the mentality that runs straight through this country, where any person will use the first opportunity to put a saddle on you.

Everyone - really?
Like the young people? Like those (like yourself and many more) who franticilly bash the keyboard when things like this happen?

You'll hear plenty stories of people who have had minor tips and nothing happens with them - theres lots of good people here, unfortunately, as with most things you'll only normally hear about the bad on message boards.

anymore

bamboozle wrote: »

By Fiach Kelly Political Correspondent

Saturday April 02 2011

THE Healy-Raes are still keeping it in the family -- with new TD Michael hiring his brother Danny as his Oireachtas secretary and giving his vacant council seat to Danny's son.

Michael Healy-Rae was previously secretarial assistant to his father Jackie, whose Dail seat he has now taken -- and Danny will now take up the assistant's role, which has a starting salary of around €23,000.
Danny is also a councillor with Kerry County Council, and his son Johnny Healy-Rae will now sit beside him in the council chamber.
Michael last night said he needed someone he could rely on completely.
He has kept on Jackie's parliamentary assistant, a position that comes with a salary between €41,092 and €52,200.
The two brothers were embroiled in controversy last year when this newspaper revealed they were paid almost €110,000 between them for one year's service on Kerry County Council. Danny and Michael were paid a total of €196,000 for 2008 and 2009 in wages and expenses. And mayors, of whom Michael was one, get extra allowances while they hold the office.
Michael received €74,342 in 2008 and €39,663 the following year, with Danny getting €32,400 and €49,376 for each year respectively.

My own FF Td Michael McGrath passed his Council seat on to his brother Seamus and appointed him as his Secretary. He also gives his brother at least one page of the bi monthly full colour newsletter that is distributed in the constituency.

JP Liz V1

The Healy-Raes should have their own reality show

dpe

BaZmO* wrote: »

Putting a politician on trial means nothing unless the accusations stick, as we've learned from the many tribunals.

Tribunals aren't trials. And you're wrong; the perception is that things are swept under the carpet rather than there's a lack of evidence. The stuff that MHR is doing is no different to the expenses scandal in the UK, difference is that there MPs have been kicked out of office and some have gone to prison. Here everyone closes ranks. (which isn't to say I have faith in the incorruptability of the British political system, far from it, but when exposed, the system acts swiftly over there because I think they recognise its better to cut out the infection before the smell gets too overpowering).

HellFireClub

kippy wrote: »

You'll hear plenty stories of people who have had minor tips and nothing happens with them - theres lots of good people here, unfortunately, as with most things you'll only normally hear about the bad on message boards.

For the second time, if you have any positives that you see that outweigh the badness of this place, why don't you post them up here???

I don't see them, and I'm not asking for a report on the people who won the last tidy towns competition... What trait have we got in Ireland here, in terms of our ethic, and how we approach things, that is a positive???

The gombeenism, the corruption, the "I couldn't give a fúck 'cos someone else will be paying for it", the turning the blind eye, the nod and the wink, the brown envelope, the acceptance of a two tier society, the insiders -vs the outsiders, the haves -vs the have nots, the public sector -vs- everyone else...

What traits are you identifying that I can't see, that offset these traits above and make this country such a decent place to live???

GerM

anymore wrote: »

My own FF Td Michael McGrath passed his Council seat on to his brother Seamus and appointed him as his Secretary. He also gives his brother at least one page of the bi monthly full colour newsletter that is distributed in the constituency.

And Brendan Griffin, another one of the three south Kerry representatives in the Dáil, hired his wife Roisin as his secretarial assistant and his cousin Tommy Griffin as his parliamentary assistant. His cousin Matthew Griffin managed to secure his old seat in the county council.

Irish politics is rife with nepotism. Pick any consituency at random around the country and there's a very good chance that, on its Wikipedia page, you'll see the same surnames coming up in the list of TDs that have represented the area over the years. It's entertaining and galling at the same time.

IRISHSPORTSGUY

The only All-Ireland Kerry will win this year is cute-whorism. :pac:

lucozader

when i used to work in the public sector. Three of the guys on my floor had nothing to do all day. So they rang premium call competition numbers all day with the tax payer footing the bill. This is typical of the waste that goes on in the public sector.

GSF

So is there anything in the Croke Park agreement on premium rate telephone numbers?

dan_d

Hmm. Well I look at it like this.

In my last job, shortly after I started, there was uproar about calls made to Australia from the office phone on Saturdays. In other words, for several weeks, someone had been working Saturday mornings and had used the office phone to call friends in Oz. I never knew the full details, because I was just in the door, but I know they lost their job and the phones in all the offices were cut off from making calls outside Ireland. And that's when times were really good.

As money got tighter (construction), the work phones that the company issued as part of the job were monitored closely. People were specifically requested not to use them outside work and if they did, they were charged.

I can only imagine what would happen to anybody in any company right now if they ran up 2500eur of a bill ringing one number outside the job, over and over again. Let alone a premium number.

So....explain to me again why this situation should be any different? We're the tax payers, it's our money. We have every right to demand accountability. Furthermore, we put them in that job. And truth be told, I think both the Healy-Raes should be booted out on the back of this. Can't even be trusted to use phones without abusing them? Yep, there's the door, don't let it hit you on the way out.

kippy

HellFireClub wrote: »

For the second time, if you have any positives that you see that outweigh the badness of this place, why don't you post them up here???

I don't see them, and I'm not asking for a report on the people who won the last tidy towns competition... What trait have we got in Ireland here, in terms of our ethic, and how we approach things, that is a positive???

The gombeenism, the corruption, the "I couldn't give a fúck 'cos someone else will be paying for it", the turning the blind eye, the nod and the wink, the brown envelope, the acceptance of a two tier society, the insiders -vs the outsiders, the haves -vs the have nots, the public sector -vs- everyone else...

What traits are you identifying that I can't see, that offset these traits above and make this country such a decent place to live???

Theres zero point in doing that as it wont change your opinions.

kippy

lucozader wrote: »

when i used to work in the public sector. Three of the guys on my floor had nothing to do all day. So they rang premium call competition numbers all day with the tax payer footing the bill. This is typical of the waste that goes on in the public sector.

I am not sure what area you worked in but phone bills are closely monitored where I work - (that doesn't mean they are as cheap as they could be (VoIP still not used) but premium rate calls are blocked, only certain people have rights to dial national and mobile numbers and any anomalies are investigated.
Either way, what was goin on here shouldnt be tolerated in any way shape or form, someone needs to walk.

take everything

dell1211 wrote: »

AFAIK the charity does not get all of the cost of the telephone call, RTE gets a cut and so do a few other companies so his argument that its okay because it went to charity is a load of crap

True.
And even if it did all go to charity, it still wouldn't hold up.
He used Leinster House to do it and the cost was incurred there.
Even if he did it but didn't use Leinster House to incur the cost it's still an incredibly cynical attempt to raise his vote-getting profile.
There's so much wrong about this, it's breathtaking in its cynicism.
What a scumbag.

xflyer

Apparently the system in use can't tell which phone or office was used. This in itself is an indictment of Oireachteas system. Back in the late eighties early nineties my company could tell who I called and when I called to the minute. What kind of pathetic system do they have in there?

As for the Healy-Raes well they were always a standing joke, stage Kerrymen, stage Oirish. Comedy politicians. But they're no joke now.

Let's sum it up: A national competition was manipulated for Healy-Rae to win, fraud. Worse still it was orchestrated from the Dail, thus ensuring that the caller didn't have to pay a penny and the whole bill was footed by the taxpayer.
This came to the attention of the officials but nothing was reported apparently. It seems they didn't think it important enough to inform anyone.
Now we have Healy-Rae washing his hands of it.

Now imagine this happened in Britain or the USA or anywhere frankly where corruption is frowned upon.

But as it happened in Ireland and Irish politicians particularly gombeen men like the Healy-Raes have no conscience and the Irish people are complicit in every form of political corruption you can think of. Nothing will happen.

We deserve everything we're getting right now.

I too am frustrated by the system in this country like so many others. We are a joke in Europe now. Not as big a joke as Greece but not far behind.

There was a bit of optimism after the change of government. There was a promise of change. I always felt it was misplaced. This government is doomed to fail and always was. Getting rid of a bunch of corrupt incompetents and replacing them with another bunch of slightly less corrupt incompetents was never going to solve the problem. They are all of the same political system that bred our downfall. Until that system changes we are doomed to repeat our mistakes. The political class in this country are by and large self serving careerists with little interest in the country as a whole only their own job and those in their golden circle.

The whole edifice is rotten to the core.

Liam Byrne

xflyer wrote: »

Apparently the system in use can't tell which phone or office was used. This in itself is an indictment of Oireachteas system.

This claim was debunked earlier by someone who seemed to know their stuff.

If it turns out that the system can indeed log the extensions used, then the malaise is even worse than we thought because it will mean that someone is lying in order to avoid allocating the necessary responsibility.

The last time the Healy-Raes were asked their opinion on something that involved wasting our money they said "but that's the system", as if taking / using what you don't deserve / aren't entitled to isn't a choice.

Is there seriously no-one in Ireland who won't wash their hands of corruption and waste and stand up and say "XXX is wrong" ? Other than those who'll say it if "the other crowd" do it, even when it's right ?

Is there not 166 people in this country who would ensure that this sort of two-fingered insult to the decent people of this country doesn't happen ?

The odd standard phonecall maybe, particularly if you were being paid feck-all; but 3,600 phonecalls to PREMIUM numbers ?

And those who say those numbers should be blocked are ignoring the malaise that's endemic in Irish society; it shouldn't be about prevention, it should be about common decency and ethics.......and we should be entitled to expect that those exist.

I look forward to this being exposed and the details of someone being fired over it.

If not, then I'd nearly personally tear up the Irish Constitution because it has failed us.

gandalf

I acknowledge that Michael Healy-Rae did not make the calls but he should condemn the fact that they were made using taxpayers money unreservedly. The fact he doesn't makes it very clear imho that he knows who did it. I would suspect it was the "person" he hadn't talked to before he gave that pathetic interview on Newstalk this morning.

Several things should happen here.

A full and prompt investigation should be carried out to identify those who made the calls, if they are Oireachtas staff they should be fired. If it is a past or present member of the Oireachtas they should named and be made pay the bill with interest. (I personally do not believe that the system in place cannot identify the number used).

The person in charge of the phone systems should be disciplined, those type of lines should have been blocked anyway. Personally I would fire them outright.

As has been said already for people who are unemployed that is a lot of money. Start to multiply waste like this and it is clear it could help keep beds in hospitals open or be used in the education of our children.

At the end of day until we change things so "pot-hole fillers" like the Healy-Raes cannot get elected and milk the system dry any more nothing is going to change. It is obvious that a lot of the electorate cannot or will not make the distinction between national and local politics therefore the system needs to be changed so they are separated.

thebman

Nobody with two brain cells believes the system can't trace the call.

What phone system can't record its own usage?

The very idea that such a system exists for use in places like the dail is ridiculous.

The only logical excuse would be if they were instructed to specifically setup a system that can't trace calls and if that is the case then we the people have a right to know why such a system is required.

Most likely he is lying though in an attempt to get his voters who can't put two and two together to believe that Dublin is ganging up on him after he got one over on them again and he is great.

urbanachiever1

xflyer wrote: »

We are a joke in Europe now. Not as big a joke as Greece but not far behind.

I'm curious to know why you think Greece is a joke. Personally I admire the Greek people for going out and demonstrating (peacefully - as the vast majority are) against paying for the mistakes of government, big business and banking systems.

Maybe if we were more active in our protests against abuses of power something might be done to make Healy-Rae accountable for this disgrace.