AL Cadet programme

A320

This girl already had some flying experience and was fairly selected from a group of candidates,I think she may also have won the top cadet so there's no point in claiming this is nepotism because she has more than proved herself

LeftBase

kona wrote: »

So what's the problem? She's good enough.

It's not personal. I'm sure she's a smashing girl.

However it's the overall culture I object to. I know at least 2 guys in Aer Lingus who failed ATPL exams yet still were taken in due to family connections. One of them failed 6 separate subjects(2 of them twice) and partialed his IR first time and was still taken in the last advertised DE scheme over people who no doubt passed everything first time. I know him and his personality is not enough to make up for that!

The_Big_One

kona wrote: »

Build a bridge !! Sometimes things run in the family, obviously the girl spent 20 odd years surrounded by aviation. She knows the score and what she was getting into. She's passed all her exams and has her wings. She's proved she's good enough. It be a different story if she was a fail.

She was in the advanced stages of training when selected. I'd be very surprised if she failed.

I thought the idea of a cadetship is that it would bring those outside the golden circle inside it so that they can be supported and encouraged. I must be really naive.

LeftBase

The_Big_One wrote: »

She was in the advanced stages of training when selected. I'd be very surprised if she failed.

I was told that because I had sat ATPL exams under the IAA I could not be selected.......I'm quite interested to hear exactly how advanced she was...?

eatmyshorts

The_Big_One wrote: »

I must be really naive.

Let me correct that for you...

"I must be really jealous".

Flier

The idea of a cadet program is that a company can choose the best person for the job from a large pool, rather than being forced to choose from a much much smaller pool. It really has nothing to do with bringing in people from 'outside the golden circle' as you put it, or even supporting or encouraging them.

LeftBase

Error

Flier

Sorry? Who is at odds with whom??

eatmyshorts

LeftBase wrote: »

You're a little bit at odds with yourself there.

2 quotes by 2 different people. And I don't see them as at odds with each other.

LeftBase

My apologies I thought you had said that Flier.

And they are at odds as somebody who is around aviation 20 years, knows the score, and know what they are getting into are a very very small group

Flier

Not at all, since she was chosen from the large 'all comers' group, and found to be the best. Just because she came from an aviation background doesn't disqualify her from being a cadet. Much to some peoples dismay it seems.

The_Big_One

Flier wrote: »

The idea of a cadet program is that a company can choose the best person for the job from a large pool, rather than being forced to choose from a much much smaller pool. It really has nothing to do with bringing in people from 'outside the golden circle' as you put it, or even supporting or encouraging them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f4nAFqVADts

Obviously, we do things very differently here in Ireland

Captain Robin Glover wrote:

The FPP is designed to allow people with little or no previous flying experience the opportunity to gain industry leading training and a fantastic career as a pilot in BA.

kona

??! I'm quite confused now !!? Who cares what she had or hadn't done? Aer lingus isn't some college of further education, they need jockeys, they picked the best of a very large, very qualified pool. Didn't get in? Apply again, finish your exams and be in a better position next time. This is ireland Of course nepotism happens, but not to the level of pure bitterness here,besides who wouldn't use any advantage they had in such a competitive selection process!?

kona

LeftBase wrote: »

My apologies I thought you had said that Flier.

And they are at odds as somebody who is around aviation 20 years, knows the score, and know what they are getting into are a very very small group

Supply and demand

Flier

The_Big_One wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f4nAFqVADts

Originally Posted by Captain Robin Glover
The FPP is designed to allow people with little or no previous flying experience the opportunity to gain industry leading training and a fantastic career as a pilot in BA.


Obviously, we do things very differently here in Ireland

OK, so as I have no interest in being a BA Cadet, I didn't look at the video clip. But the quotation is not at all at odds with what I said. BA also want to be able to choose their cadets from as large a pool as possible, and not limit themselves. So, no, I don't think we do things differently here. Do you think people whose parents are pilots should not be accepted on a cadet program?

phonypony

The_Big_One wrote: »

She was in the advanced stages of training when selected.

I seem to remember at the time the general consensus was that having even a PPL and a few hrs set you at a distinct disadvantage...

Bessarion

Flier wrote: »

Does it occur to anyone that she may have been the best person for the job? Given that she passed the aptitude test, psychometric testing and medical, which have nothing to do with who her daddy is, she is already on the top end of the pile. Add to that that she was very well prepared for interview, having done her research about the training, the job, the company, the working environment etc, she is looking very good for a cadetship. You wouldn't believe how poorly prepared for interview some potential cadets/direct entries are. Aer Lingus or any other airline won't be investing the 100k + for training unless they believe they have chosen the best. If that person happens to come from a long line of airline pilots, straight out of school, or from driving taxis or whatever is irrelevant.......

Lets not forget that this candidate may have been seen as a better choice for EI as the chacnes are that they will not cut and run after their bond ends. Being from 'in the fold' obviously helped with the personal interview side of things and increases the commitment to the company.

Its not as if a company would deliverately hire someone who failed a test.


2 completely equal candidates.....1 with a family pedigree in EI, the other is Dutch and has never lived in Ireland.......one of these is a safer bet then the other.

The_Big_One wrote: »

.....I thought the idea of a cadetship is that it would bring those outside the golden circle inside it so that they can be supported and encouraged. I must be really naive.

My belief is that a cadet scheme is worth the investment to get yourself a group of pilots who are tied to the company for a set number of years. (through their bond) Getting them in early increases the chances that they will stay with the airline for their career.

Xpro

eatmyshorts wrote: »

Let me correct that for you...

"I must be really jealous".

A few posters on here are already an airline pilots, so i highly doubt this is a jelousy issue. :cool:

It is the fact that aerlingus have their own preference, and the meaning of HR was pointless in some sense.
Im sure not all cadets are related to someone in EI but, some of them are, and this was certainly not a coincidence.

So when you know someone back door is always there and this is not what the equal opportunity is all about.

Anyways,
Kerry done very well and Im happy that she succeeded and i wish her all the best.

Milan Cobian

Leftbase, you seem very familiar with the personal circumstances and backgrounds of large numbers of AL pilots. Given your contention that connections are the only requirement for entry, it's surprising you didn't get in yourself.

Anyway, you can all fulminate all you like about nepotism etc, but the reality is that only a small percentage of AL pilots have family connections. Sorry that doesn't fit your narrative. A key part of flying the aircraft is dealing with the reality of the situation, not the fantasy, and perhaps that confusion came across in your interview.

LeftBase

Milan Cobian wrote: »

Leftbase, you seem very familiar with the personal circumstances and backgrounds of large numbers of AL pilots. Given your contention that connections are the only requirement for entry, it's surprising you didn't get in yourself.

Anyway, you can all fulminate all you like about nepotism etc, but the reality is that only a small percentage of AL pilots have family connections. Sorry that doesn't fit your narrative. A key part of flying the aircraft is dealing with the reality of the situation, not the fantasy, and perhaps that confusion came across in your interview.

I dont have family involved in Aer Lingus but hung around aviation a lot throughout my teenage years. I base my opinions on the fact that all the young guys I mixed with who had fathers/mothers/both flying in Aer Lingus are now in Aer Lingus and it is totally disproportionate and well beyond coincidence.
I actually had a think about it last night and I actually do not know anybody with family in Aer Lingus who has been rejected!

The bit in bold sort of made me laugh. When people say stuff like that on here I just feel embarrassed for them...:rolleyes:

Milan Cobian

Ok, so every single person you were acquainted with who had AL family members also ended up working for AL. Yeah that makes perfect sense.
Anyway, banging head off brick wall here. If you want to believe everyone has connections, it's your choice to be divorced from reality.

When people say stuff like that on here I just feel embarrassed for them...

That's good of you, but I'm doing ok myself.

riverrock1

Google 'Aer Lingus first female pilot'.Her Father,Husband,sister and daughter were or are AL pilots.

Bessarion

riverrock1 wrote: »

Google 'Aer Lingus first female pilot'.Her Father,Husband,sister and daughter were or are AL pilots.

So a girl who's dad was a pilot in the 1960-70's wanted to be like him. She manged to fufill her dream in 1979. Her sister followed suit and ended up flying for another Irish airline. While working as a pilot the first girl met and married another pilot. They had 2 kids who funnily enough wanted to emulate their parents.

This sounds like a family tradition to me. Imagine the depth of aviation knowledge those 2 kids would have by the age of 12-14, with dinner conversations being focused on the company that both parents work for. I would hazard a guess that many of their parents mates were also pilots.
Also both kid would be very aware of the shift patterns and related stress that being a commercial airline pilot entails. And neither would be fooled by the non-aviation image of glamour in the sky a la "Pan Am"

bombs away

Not sure why everyone is getting their knickers in a twist here, nepotism is rife in every single industry and is not unique to aviation, always has been and always will be :rolleyes:

smurfjed

Her sister followed suit and ended up flying for another Irish airline.

Always remember her doing the CPL tech type on the Piper Cub :) I then had the honour of being her first passenger as a commercial pilot.

smurfjed

LeftBase

There's a lot of people arguing about dinner table conversation and how that would benefit candidates with parents in Aer Lingus.
Well lets just think about that. When people are excluded for reasons totally beyond their control in any way that is termed discrimination. You cannot pick who your parents are and it is grossly unfair that any assumptions should be made based solely on who they are.

Lets look at an example. Candidate A goes to interview. His dad is a Senior Captain. He knows the ins and outs of Aer Lingus, the ethos etc. Candidate B arrives. His dad is not a pilot, but he also knows the ins and outs and the ethos etc. Who is more deserving? In reality Aer Lingus would judge Candidate A for their own reasons and there in lies the problem.

I've mentioned the guys I know who got in on the strength of family ties. They were good pilots(most of them), but they were no better than anyone else who applied. However the fact they ALL got in is far beyond coincidence. I know guys rejected who had parents who were pilots at other airlines and they knew just as much about pilot life if not more than the Aer Lingus kids.

People here have quoted an "inside knowledge of the culture" of Aer Lingus as being a feather in the kid's caps. This is telling in itself as it shows you need insider knowledge to get in. This would seem to be how they operate.

Another issue is this "chip on the shoulder thing". It should be noted that a job in Aer Lingus for the young man about town is only free ketchup away from a job in any other airline. I work from the same base as many of these cadets will no doubt end up in, flying a slight variant of the aircraft they will fly. When I was rejected at interview of course I was annoyed and disappointed, but I got on with it and have learned that Aer Lingus is not the only gig in town, and even if it was there are better bands playing in the big city. My objection to their nepotism is moral and not for my own self gain. Perhaps in the future I will apply to them again with a few 1000 hours, but when you have a few 1000 hours there are better places than Aer Lingus willing to hire you. In fact there are a number of Aer Lingus pilots more keen to get out than any of you are to get in!

A nice little quote from an Irish former co-worker of mine who left last month "Why apply to Aer Lingus & Sons when I can go to Dubai and get minted"

eatmyshorts

LeftBase wrote: »

Lets look at an example. Candidate A goes to interview. His dad is a Senior Captain. He knows the ins and outs of Aer Lingus, the ethos etc. Candidate B arrives. His dad is not a pilot, but he also knows the ins and outs and the ethos etc. Who is more deserving? In reality Aer Lingus would judge Candidate A for their own reasons and there in lies the problem

So which one of the two would you choose? Given all other factors equal.

Peregrine

eatmyshorts wrote: »

So which one of the two would you choose? Given all other factors equal.

Not all other facts are equal

LeftBase

eatmyshorts wrote: »

So which one of the two would you choose? Given all other factors equal.

Given all factors bar the above equal I would pick B. They would appear to have done more research than A

kona

LeftBase wrote: »

Given all factors bar the above equal I would pick B. They would appear to have done more research than A

!!!?