AL Cadet programme

LeftBase · 30-11-2012 4:44pm

beerbaron1234 wrote: »

It is the way it works sadly!!! Airlines can afford to be very picky about the DE they choose. so to be at the same school as the airlines own cadets does have an affect on the decision to even look at your cv. I know guys that went to other schools and are finding it very hard to get airlines to even look at their CV because they don't know anything about the school!
Its a sad reality I know but it is a reality. I know so people who are well up in the airline industry and these are the recommendations they have given me.

lets say Aer lingus get 2 CV's for DE on their desk one has gone to the same school as their own cadets so they know what way and how well (or badly) he has been trained and the other has gone to some school that they never heard of! Who do you think will interest them slightly more! Humans tend to stick to what they know!!

The thing you are missing is the flight tests that you have passed regardless of schools. You have to pass a flight test with an examiner appointed by the JAA member authority and that is the bottom line.
I know of at least 2 airlines that run their cadetships(if you can call them that) through CTC, yet they view CTC graduates the same as any other because "humans" are not standard and it has to be remembered that it is in the interests of large pilot factories like CTC, FTE, OAT, PTC etc to have pilots passing exams and flight tests....but let's not go there...
A cadetship is monitored by the airline in question so they can guarantee results that they stipulate. You can guarantee nothing with an independent candidate. For DE into Aer Lingus 8/10 guys will need a few 1000 jet hours and at that stage nobody gives a toss about your flight school.

Paxi_R6 · 21-12-2012 2:15am

TPL training is delivered through two main methods. One is through an Integrated flight training programme at an approved flight training school (the programme used by Aer Lingus to train its cadets); the other is through a Modular method.

Well that was on the careers page of Aer Lingus looks like if you want to be considered as a DE cadet without flying for another airline you have to train in FTE . Shame really AFC and NFC are very good , People I know who have trained there seemed to speak very highly of both ! Train in Ireland and EI certainly wont be your first job , around 70k will be spent on training in AFC or NFC and considering you would most likely end up in Ryanair (Maybe not but lets say you did) that is another 27-30k on type rating so adds up to be around 100k anyway so maybe FTE is not a bad option after all , But training there will make your chances of getting hired slightly better I would Imagine its not only EI who likes hiring from FTE there is a few airlines ! . EI overall seem rather odd on hiring pilots , I know there getting another A330 ( leased off united) so there will be more long haul pilots trained to the 330, there going have have to fill the gaps on the 320 so keep an eye open maybe something might happen next year

just maybe .......

basill · 21-12-2012 10:28am

I wouldn't ever try and understand the AL recruitment policy as it will just give you a sore head.

Cadets back next year and a few new DE starters are already going through the ground school. Lots of seat changes on both fleets coming up to take account of not only the LHR base but also a few that are leaving for newer pastures. I understand that the hold pool has been emptied with guys and gals lined up to join as direct entry next year. More needed which will be covered by secondees on short term contracts from our German affiliate.

The "leased" United A330 is probably a misquote by one of the journos. I think they got confused and it is the IAD based A330 that is back which will enable the increased rotations on BOS and ORD that were announced a while back. I haven't seen anything mentioned in internal press releases about new aircraft arriving so I suspect the media screwed it up. Just the same old rumours going around about Etihad aircraft in Toulouse that may be heading our way. Nothing concrete to say either way but I suspect if true that we won't know further until after the 27th of Feb 2013 when the EU make their findings known. Even then FR will probably drag it out with appeals to hold us back.

Tenger · 21-12-2012 1:06pm

Paxi_R6 wrote: »

.......... EI overall seem rather odd on hiring pilots , I know there getting another A330 ( leased off united) so there will be more long haul pilots trained to the 330, there going have have to fill the gaps on the 320 so keep an eye open maybe something might happen next year just maybe .......

The additional A330 next summer is in fact an EI A330 that has been operating IAD-MAD under a deal with United for the past 3 years. The pilots based there were EI crew, so it seems that they will return with the aircraft

Paxi_R6 · 21-12-2012 1:42pm

My mistake there totally forgot about the Madrid deal didn't that end in October due to united being un happy mostly it's pilots because it is out sourcing .

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/aer-lingus-considers-us-routes-from-cork--214808.html
There is the article there .....

Yeah EI look positive for next year January February there might be something , wouldn't be surprised if the cadets doesn't come up until the ones in FTE at the moment are finished and flying , could be earlier only the confusing EI recruitment knows

LeftBase · 21-12-2012 2:32pm

Paxi_R6 wrote: »

Train in Ireland and EI certainly wont be your first job , around 70k will be spent on training in AFC or NFC and considering you would most likely end up in Ryanair (Maybe not but lets say you did) that is another 27-30k on type rating so adds up to be around 100k anyway so maybe FTE is not a bad option after all , But training there will make your chances of getting hired slightly better I would Imagine its not only EI who likes hiring from FTE there is a few airlines!

Was that lifted straight from their brochure?:D

70k for training in Ireland is a bit steep and would require a few ATPL resits, extra flight training hours and maybe some flight test redos. I did it in more or less minimum hours and spent 57k. TR costs(not with Ryanair) will see me screwed to the tune of 20-25k when the day is done it seems.

Jobs for fATPL pilots with flag carriers are short on the ground to say the least. Most have to go the budget carrier route and get jet hours in order to move on. At one of those seminars when you leave with as much info as you came in with, Aer Lingus' staff told me straight out that I would not get hired with a fATPL unless they were very short of quality applicants with full ATPLs.

My personal opinion is that people should not pay over the odds to go to FTE and they end up in Ryanair anyway if they can go to a cheaper school, pay less and end up in Ryanair anyway.

Basing your choice of FTE on the fact "airlines" like them and Aer Lingus train cadets there is foolhardy at best! Like I said before, they'd be in OAA if Oxford offered Aer Lingus a better deal!

Paxi_R6 · 21-12-2012 3:17pm

funny

Well costs all depends on weather you go modular or integrated . NFC is 68k for integrated plus travelling costs (I live close to it 20 minute drive but toll bridge charges add up to another 2-3k after 16 months ) so in and around 70k .
AFC is 65k but living in cork accommodation and food and so on adds up to easily 70k additional costs are killer . If you happen to fail exams and so on the price would go up few thouand again ! Not something you would want after spending so much already .
Very true ! Most like spend 100k in FTE and end up in Ryanair anyway . Really did you do modular or integrated ? 57k is very good !
Aren't Aer lingus short on staff esppially during the summer with 5 days on 1 off ...seems like the right way to go about things flying low cost first I'd imagine you would hope for a carrier who flies the 320 , FR wouldn't be bad either as long as you get few thouand hours ! .

smurfjed · 22-12-2012 10:39am

Leftbase,you are one of the lucky ones as you got a proper job with a fATPL, but for the sake of those reading this thread and wondering where they are going to get 80K, would you please tell them how much your repayments are, and how much disposable income you have left each month following these repayments.

Smurfjed

LeftBase · 22-12-2012 1:39pm

smurfjed wrote: »

Leftbase,you are one of the lucky ones as you got a proper job with a fATPL, but for the sake of those reading this thread and wondering where they are going to get 80K, would you please tell them how much your repayments are, and how much disposable income you have left each month following these repayments.

Smurfjed

I suppose in many respects I was lucky on a lot of fronts and will openly admit that. One of those fronts was very forward thinking parents who saved money for my siblings and I through selling of capital assets etc over the years. My family were by no means rich, but my parents knew I'd need money for education and to get myself a good job whatever sector it be in so they put little lump sums aside year after year. As a result I only ended up 20k in debt(only!). While I'm divulging rather personal information I'll do it for information's sake to those coming after. Monthly repayments work out at about 700e. That leaves me with 600e a month to live off depending. AFAIK you can make more than that on the welfare(lowest rate of welfare in Ireland is 576e per month). I buy my food, pay the bills/rent here and the what's left after that is saved(I'm fed and warm). Social life is a bit non existent bar the odd outing with some friends.

In answer to Paxi's question yes I did it in 57k. I worked hard and studied hard because if I was paying that money out I might as well have!
Generally it seems when Aer Lingus need to hire they hire pilots with a few 1000 jet hours. DE's at fATPL level seem to be reserved for relatives of current pilots(put's match to powder keg).

smurfjed · 24-12-2012 1:33pm

Leftbase, well done with posting the reality of your present working environment, you appear to need 3 years to pay off your loan, which is survivable. But for others who aren't so financially prepared, (or have such sensible parents:)) they will need about 10 years to repay the training loans.

I wonder how many flight schools explain this reality to their students.

smurfjed

LeftBase · 24-12-2012 2:46pm

smurfjed wrote: »

Leftbase, well done with posting the reality of your present working environment, you appear to need 3 years to pay off your loan, which is survivable. But for others who aren't so financially prepared, (or have such sensible parents:)) they will need about 10 years to repay the training loans.

I wonder how many flight schools explain this reality to their students.

smurfjed

I'm happy to be young free and single(PM me ladies;)) and I do feel for those who have a wife and kids and came to the game a little later. Certainly you could not feed, cloth and entertain kids on the net wage I make! Lucky for me I like pot noodle!

Some flight schools will tell you that it's tough in the first few years, but few will say anything that will turn your business away.

aerhead · 24-12-2012 4:35pm

Have heard of a few that indeed invested the €100k and then the €30k for type rating (which you need for Ryanair) only to get the thumbs down during TR. That's €130k in total! Imagine servicing that... Eyes wide open...

ArphaRima · 27-12-2012 2:51pm

Good old bankruptcy.
Emigrate for a few years.

bluecode · 28-12-2012 12:14am

LeftBase wrote: »

I'm happy to be young free and single(PM me ladies;)) and I do feel for those who have a wife and kids and came to the game a little later. Certainly you could not feed, cloth and entertain kids on the net wage I make! Lucky for me I like pot noodle!

Some flight schools will tell you that it's tough in the first few years, but few will say anything that will turn your business away.

Indeed but you don't need kids and a woman with expectations to be struggling. The reality is that some guys simply cannot afford to take some so called pilot jobs. A private income helps quite frankly.

Bluntly I was subsidised by my wife. She quite reasonably expects me to pay that back at some point.

As she doesn't peruse this forum I can tell you, she'll be lucky!

Niiall · 24-02-2013 12:30am

Any more word on the possibility of more recruitment for cadetships in EI for 2013/2014?

The_Big_One · 19-03-2013 7:56pm

More info. here.

<snip>

Wonder might there be another cadetship soon since this one is coming to an end?

LeftBase · 19-03-2013 8:05pm

For Kerry Jolley it was a paricularly special occasion when she received her wings from her father, Captain Bob Jolley, a retired Aer Lingus captain with some 24 000 hours flying experience.

But of course!:rolleyes:

robclay26 · 19-03-2013 8:14pm

LeftBase wrote: »

But of course!:rolleyes:

Sums it all up!

directPEPOD · 19-03-2013 8:31pm

Was sceptical at first when some on here played the nepo-card.. But unfortunately she isn't the only one.

At least HR has redeemed themselves by ... oh wait a minute ...

Xpro · 19-03-2013 8:58pm

There you go now.
Great inspiration for future pilots that would love to join aerlingus, but unfortunately no parents were captains or employees. So tough luck

Why was there even recruitment in first place when people were already chosen?

Unfair.

The_Big_One · 19-03-2013 9:09pm

It's a big opportunity missed by EI when you think of it. The road to commercial pilot is complex, tough and expensive. Mentorship and funding are key. There are a few people on that cadetship that had both regardless if they got it or not.

It's a great shame but mirrors Irish society at large. I wonder how many children of Captains at B.A. got in on their one? With much larger numbers for that cadetship surely there must be 20-25 of them by extrapolation of EI's numbers...

eatmyshorts · 19-03-2013 9:26pm

I was an EI cadet. Out of about the 50 or so cadets that I knew during training, only 1 had a parent who worked in EI (and the parent was not a pilot).

Get the chips of the shoulders, lads.

LeftBase · 19-03-2013 9:37pm

eatmyshorts wrote: »

I was an EI cadet. Out of about the 50 or so cadets that I knew during training, only 1 had a parent who worked in EI (and the parent was not a pilot).

Get the chips of the shoulders, lads.

Regardless of your year's stats it is a far too common occurrence in Aer Lingus with DE candidates and of course a disproportionate amount of cadets.

To be honest if I was Ms Jolley I would not have wanted that little anecdotal piece put in because it puts my name out there on the sub-conscious black list in the small aviation community in Ireland. She risks becoming the poster child for Aer Lingus nepotism.

If you look at EI recruitment across the board(not just pilots) the nepotism is staggering. A lot of current/former EI staff dispute this, however many also agree with it as it rears it's head when promotion/advancement comes up.
I was once called a "jealous fool" for complaining about the nepotism in Aer Lingus to a current Aer Lingus Captain. As it happens I found out later(and I wish I'd known then) that his father and 4 uncles got in in the 70s, their father was one of the first pilots Aer Lingus had and 6 of his cousins were taken in as cadets throughout the 90s.

eatmyshorts · 19-03-2013 9:44pm

LeftBase wrote: »

it puts my name out there on the sub-conscious black list in the small aviation community in Ireland.

The what?
Who's black listing who, and what are they being black listed against doing?

Flier · 19-03-2013 9:47pm

Does it occur to anyone that she may have been the best person for the job? Given that she passed the aptitude test, psychometric testing and medical, which have nothing to do with who her daddy is, she is already on the top end of the pile. Add to that that she was very well prepared for interview, having done her research about the training, the job, the company, the working environment etc, she is looking very good for a cadetship. You wouldn't believe how poorly prepared for interview some potential cadets/direct entries are. Aer Lingus or any other airline won't be investing the 100k + for training unless they believe they have chosen the best. If that person happens to come from a long line of airline pilots, straight out of school, or from driving taxis or whatever is irrelevant. Choose to believe it, or continue to rest your heads on the massive chips on your shoulders.

The_Big_One · 19-03-2013 9:50pm

eatmyshorts wrote: »

I was an EI cadet. Out of about the 50 or so cadets that I knew during training, only 1 had a parent who worked in EI (and the parent was not a pilot).

Get the chips of the shoulders, lads.

Nothing wrong with a chip on shoulder when it's warranted. I'd love to believe you but I have a logical mind. There's more proof to the opposite of what you say unfortunately. I've heard it from so many other people too that I find it hard to believe they all have chips.

LeftBase · 19-03-2013 10:06pm

eatmyshorts wrote: »

The what?
Who's black listing who, and what are they being black listed against doing?

Everyone who struggles to the flight deck, robbing Peter to pay Paul is disgusted with the stories of nepotism from Aer Lingus. Now there is a name to put to those stories. It isnt a great way to start your career.

kona · 19-03-2013 10:19pm

Build a bridge !! Sometimes things run in the family, obviously the girl spent 20 odd years surrounded by aviation. She knows the score and what she was getting into. She's passed all her exams and has her wings. She's proved she's good enough. It be a different story if she was a fail.

LeftBase · 19-03-2013 10:20pm

kona wrote: »

Build a bridge !! Sometimes things run in the family, obviously the girl spent 20 odd years surrounded by aviation. She knows the score and what she was getting into. She's passed all her exams and has her wings. She's proved she's good enough. It be a different story if she was a fail.

Yes it would be!

....but in many cases....it isnt!:rolleyes:

kona · 19-03-2013 10:24pm

LeftBase wrote: »

Yes it would be!

....but in many cases....it isnt!:rolleyes:

So what's the problem? She's good enough.

AL Cadet programme

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