AL Cadet programme

Bearcat

hearing rumours of announcement v shortly of a cadet programme.........:)

David086

Weren't they recently sacking pilots?

Cessna_Pilot

Not sacked, made redundant. Volutarily.

I can't see this happen, considering they are hiring direct entry fully qualified FOs at the moment.

If they ever do go down the cadet route again, it will cost the cadet a LOT of money.

MoeJay

Watch this space!

There is going to be a deluge of applications in the not-too-distant future...

Jim236

If it does go ahead I'd say it'll be a cadet programme along the lines of what CityJet did a year or 2 ago where they guaranteed anyone accepted into the programme a job but they had to pay for their training. For Aer Lingus its also a way of hiring in new pilots on reduced terms than what current pilots would be on.

EI-A330

Aer Lingus at the dublin flyer said they are 90% sure of running a cadet program this year they where just sorting out prices with schools. The chances of being the lucky few to get selected will be very slim thousands will be applying .

Delancey

Will it ever happen that AL will pay the cadets costs or is that something we will be telling our grandchildren , '' I remember the days when .....''

If the cadet has to pay the cost of training then I guess the deluge of applications will be a trickle.

searescue

Bearcat wrote: »

hearing rumours of announcement v shortly of a cadet programme.........:)

Hope so, was recently at Oxford for the EasyJet scheme....missed out by two answers

high ho

what are the terms and conditions on the easyjet scheme? is it pay for yourself and how much is the course?

smellslikeshoes

high ho wrote: »

what are the terms and conditions on the easyjet scheme? is it pay for yourself and how much is the course?

If you have to ask if it is pay for yourself you should do lots more research
There is no such thing as airlines paying for your initial training anymore.
The easyjet scheme is 85k sterling, add in living costs and you're looking at about 100k sterling :eek:

GKJK

I was at the flyer exhibition in Dublin and I probed the AL people fairly deeply on this issue. The guy said that they were looking to try and give the guys who dont have 100k in their back pocket a chance and he expressed the opinion that some of the new recruits on Direct entry in this financial climate were a bit "stuffy". So I cannot see them charging a massive amount of money if this is the case!
(as a matter of interest the lady from IALPA gave me some interesting info on why they might want to start a cadetship that I shall not give out here...pm me if you want to know! Although I think most AL guys already know about the problems the training department in AL are having with new guys!)

Now I already have a PPL and am close to sitting my 1st batch of ATPLs. The guy said that wouldnt harm my chances and would just mean that I'd get money and time off. As long as I didnt do a CPL I could still get onto the cadetship. I alas have the problem of not having a Uni degree as to put it straight my family just didnt have the money for both Uni and flying, so I made the direct "what I really wanted" choice.
I've posted on here before of my desire for an AL job, just hope if there is a deluge I'm not drowned in it!

Anybody know what they will look for in applicants?

EI-A330

Hi all, just wondering has anybody got any news on aer lingus cadetship is it still going ahead??? thanks

FlutterinBantam

David086 wrote: »

Weren't they recently sacking pilots?

Offering good redundancy to highly paid senior pilots and hiring in others on a different pay scale.

That's my reading of it.

aviteire

This scheme looks interesting. I hope it does go ahead. Will give a big leg up to alot of lads I know who want to be pilots but cant afford the training.
I remember the old cadet scheme they had and reading the entry requirements from the last intake in 2001 I think. You needed a really good leaving cert to apply. Much higher than the air corps leaving cert requirements so that could come back to bite some people...But who knows..This time they might be more slack on entry requirements

GKJK

aviteire wrote: »

This scheme looks interesting. I hope it does go ahead. Will give a big leg up to alot of lads I know who want to be pilots but cant afford the training.
I remember the old cadet scheme they had and reading the entry requirements from the last intake in 2001 I think. You needed a really good leaving cert to apply. Much higher than the air corps leaving cert requirements so that could come back to bite some people...But who knows..This time they might be more slack on entry requirements

I remember this requirement. However that only applies to people who are straight out of school at 18! If you had a degree they looked at that and how that went for you and if you had flight experiance they looked at your exam results for PPL ATPLs etc. Generally for any sort of job if you are under 20 they look at your LC as it still applied to your academic level. If you are over 20 it is likely that however good your LC it is not a good indicater of your current academic level.
I had a cousin who applied in 2000 I think. He had an average LC, but had a PPL and they just looked at his PPL exam results and asked him some aviation questions. He missed the flight test 1st time out for that but they just tested his knowledge on PPL matters. All they were concerned about in his LC was that he passed everything and got above a C in maths and physics!

high ho

i dont think having a ppl, or atpl exams passed will be a deal clincher. i also dont think that for the few lucky choosen ones who make the scheme that their leaving cert results will even be looked at as it will be an older clientel this time around. people with life experience and qualifications. i dont see ei putting a jumped up 18 year old with 3 higher c's and a science subject into the righthand seat of an a320. could you imagine the arrogance he/she could not avoid having. ei are unhappy with the standard of the currently being recruited direct entry f/o's. they are taking longer to get to line check that the previous cadets of old, mainly due to not coming from a controlled and monitored training scheme. so if they do go ahead with this cadet mentored scheme, it will have to be right first time or else it will fall on its head for good. so this said, the competition will be tough and having developed flying skills and bad habbits may not be what ei are looking for....
good luck to all who apply....

GKJK

high ho wrote: »

i dont think having a ppl, or atpl exams passed will be a deal clincher. i also dont think that for the few lucky choosen ones who make the scheme that their leaving cert results will even be looked at as it will be an older clientel this time around. people with life experience and qualifications. i dont see ei putting a jumped up 18 year old with 3 higher c's and a science subject into the righthand seat of an a320. could you imagine the arrogance he/she could not avoid having. ei are unhappy with the standard of the currently being recruited direct entry f/o's. they are taking longer to get to line check that the previous cadets of old, mainly due to not coming from a controlled and monitored training scheme. so if they do go ahead with this cadet mentored scheme, it will have to be right first time or else it will fall on its head for good. so this said, the competition will be tough and having developed flying skills and bad habbits may not be what ei are looking for....
good luck to all who apply....

I asked that very question at the FLYER exhibition (age range for recuitment) and the SFO who was talking to me said that in his opinion the age would be 21-30 for cadets. A key theme is what he said(and he repeated it in the seminar) was the economic situation in Ireland, and it seems AL maybe be looking to give young guys who cannot get jobs or the funding to train as pilots a chance.
The idea of wanting older guys with life experiance is fair enough and I cannot say for sure that this is incorrect, however anybody who left school 2008+ and didnt go to college is highly unlikey to have picked up any meaningful work experiance given the job market in Ireland not existing.
The AL guy indicated that flight experiance while not a job winner would be a plus as it displays "trainability" and would cut some hours/time off your cadet training and save everyone some money.
The last thing AL want is an experianced 25 year old former engineer with a great personality, drive and understanding of the AL ethos on the cadetship if he pukes his guts up 50 feet off the runway in his Piper 1st day of flight training.
Apart from the lack of skill being shown in sim checks and painful crawl to line checks AL are not impressed with the "stuffy" attitudes of some of the guys coming for the DE-FO positions. A lot of them seem to "have the money" to train in these economic times. Maybe AL want to give the "less well off" lads a go with the cadetship!

high ho

GKJK wrote: »

I asked that very question at the FLYER exhibition (age range for recuitment) and the SFO who was talking to me said that in his opinion the age would be 21-30 for cadets. A key theme is what he said(and he repeated it in the seminar) was the economic situation in Ireland, and it seems AL maybe be looking to give young guys who cannot get jobs or the funding to train as pilots a chance.
The idea of wanting older guys with life experiance is fair enough and I cannot say for sure that this is incorrect, however anybody who left school 2008+ and didnt go to college is highly unlikey to have picked up any meaningful work experiance given the job market in Ireland not existing.
The AL guy indicated that flight experiance while not a job winner would be a plus as it displays "trainability" and would cut some hours/time off your cadet training and save everyone some money.
The last thing AL want is an experianced 25 year old former engineer with a great personality, drive and understanding of the AL ethos on the cadetship if he pukes his guts up 50 feet off the runway in his Piper 1st day of flight training.
Apart from the lack of skill being shown in sim checks and painful crawl to line checks AL are not impressed with the "stuffy" attitudes of some of the guys coming for the DE-FO positions. A lot of them seem to "have the money" to train in these economic times. Maybe AL want to give the "less well off" lads a go with the cadetship!

yes the last thing ei want is an experianced 25 year old former engineer with a great personality, drive and understanding of the ei ethos on the cadetship if he pukes his guts up 50 feet off the runway in his Piper 1st day of flight training.... the second last thing they want is an arrogant 18-20 year old who thinks he/she is the best thing since sliced bread....
who said its going to be in a piper? do you know where the training is going to be conducted?

the economic situation does not mean that ei are looking to give young guys and girls with no money 'a chance' as you put it. it is not for your benefit that they are considering a cadetship. they are considering a cadetship to right the wrongs of the last 10 years, to allow themselves have the pick of this talented nation and so by lifting the limitation of finance and not just making it a millionaires childs game as it has become over the last number of years. it is purely to allow them have the pick of the bunch and they are right to do so, as investing some money in cadets, who will pay them back with service is a sound investment if done right.

does anybody have any info on when it will happen or what schools they are considering? and the finance/bond arrangement.

GKJK

high ho wrote: »

yes the last thing ei want is an experianced 25 year old former engineer with a great personality, drive and understanding of the ei ethos on the cadetship if he pukes his guts up 50 feet off the runway in his Piper 1st day of flight training.... the second last thing they want is an arrogant 18-20 year old who thinks he/she is the best thing since sliced bread....
who said its going to be in a piper? do you know where the training is going to be conducted?

the economic situation does not mean that ei are looking to give young guys and girls with no money 'a chance' as you put it. it is not for your benefit that they are considering a cadetship. they are considering a cadetship to right the wrongs of the last 10 years, to allow themselves have the pick of this talented nation and so by lifting the limitation of finance and not just making it a millionaires childs game as it has become over the last number of years. it is purely to allow them have the pick of the bunch and they are right to do so, as investing some money in cadets, who will pay them back with service is a sound investment if done right.

does anybody have any info on when it will happen or what schools they are considering? and the finance/bond arrangement.

I didnt say that they would take 18-20 yos and I picked the piper as an example off the top of my head.
I have heard various people in the aviation business(from flight school up) over the past few weeks state that AL will not look to take "the best" of our youth, they will take the best of our pilots. Even in the old days a high number of the guys on the cadetship were former air corps who were sitting cpls and IRs on the AL coppers. I had a retired skipper tell me that he would guess 20-30% of the old intake were just off the street and the rest had a few years in the air under their belt as instructors or military.

There is no official line on when it will happen but the consistant rumour I've heard is to start training in early 2012. Jerez is the consistant line for the school, but OAA have their hat in the ring also. Early indications were PTC but it seems PTC turned then down as AL have booted a lot of PTC grads from type ratings and laughed them out of sim checks.
As for the bond by chance I know someone in a bank who said AL were in contact with them. A loan of 50-100k(depends on where they finally base the course and the applicant's experiance level plus how much AL want to fund themselves) guaranteed by AL (as in they will give you a job after so it will be paid back) and paid out in 3 installments. Bond could be anywhere from 5-8 years based on the old way and what other airlines have done

Cessna_Pilot

GKJK wrote: »

. Early indications were PTC but it seems PTC turned then down as AL have booted a lot of PTC grads from type ratings and laughed them out of sim checks.

Think you mean Aer Lingus turned PTC down:rolleyes:

GKJK

Cessna_Pilot wrote: »

Think you mean Aer Lingus turned PTC down:rolleyes:

That's not what it said in the booklet and advertising campaign PTC put out.....:P

I intended to tinge that statemnet with irony, but upon reading it again I see it didnt come through

high ho

GKJK wrote: »

That's not what it said in the booklet and advertising campaign PTC put out.....:P

I intended to tinge that statemnet with irony, but upon reading it again I see it didnt come through

what does it say on booklet and advertising campaign? you have to hand it to them, ptc have a massive advertising campaign, they pop up everywhere, its a pity they are glorified (denying) modular, they could spend their money better if you ask me..

GKJK

high ho wrote: »

what does it say on booklet and advertising campaign? you have to hand it to them, ptc have a massive advertising campaign, they pop up everywhere, its a pity they are glorified (denying) modular, they could spend their money better if you ask me..

That was a jibe at their massive budget. PTC are getting exposed now really for what they are. Their rep with Ryanair is in tatters and carriers such as AL and Aer Arann are getting wise to the "in house" testing that goes on there. From what I've heard only Flybe and netjets(and one guy went to DHL) are giving their grads the time of day anymore..

pilot1087

GKJK wrote: »

That was a jibe at their massive budget. PTC are getting exposed now really for what they are. Their rep with Ryanair is in tatters and carriers such as AL and Aer Arann are getting wise to the "in house" testing that goes on there. From what I've heard only Flybe and netjets(and one guy went to DHL) are giving their grads the time of day anymore..

Just a pointer for anyone wishing to apply (if it happens ) ..... do not refer to Aer Lingus as "AL"..... EI is the way to go.

GKJK

pilot1087 wrote: »

Just a pointer for anyone wishing to apply (if it happens ) ..... do not refer to Aer Lingus as "AL"..... EI is the way to go.

Noted

aviteire

18,21,26,33,57 !
Age is just a number.

You either tick the box or you dont.
If it meant for you, then you will be selected, if its not meant for you, then something else will work out for you at some stage in your life.

Just wait until it is actually advertised !

Shamrock just want normal, sound irish lads and girls who can organise stuff, operate the machine with cop on and common sense, be comfortable to work with in the office and most important in alot of pilots views, someone who is good craic to spend time down-route with !!!

After all, we all want to fly to see the world, meet other flyers, have the craic in the bars down-route and live long and die happy!

Goodluck to any of you that go for it.
My brother got on it in 1999 and is delighted with the job.

xflyer

Shamrock just want normal, sound irish lads and girls

Drop the word Irish and you're right. It will be open to all and you can guarantee they will be flooded with applications from all over including substantial numbers of British applicants.

They are not in it to 'right wrongs' or give Irish people with no money a 'chance'. They're a business not an arm of the state anymore. They need pilots and this is the their chosen method of obtaining them.

No need for any rose tinted view of this process. Cadetships are simply a means of obtaining suitable employees. No more no less.

GKJK

xflyer wrote: »

Drop the word Irish and you're right. It will be open to all and you can guarantee they will be flooded with applications from all over including substantial numbers of British applicants.

But the unspoken rule is that the Irish get the first whack at it. EI want people who will stay their wholes lives and become Captains and not just bugger off when BA or Virgin come calling. EI has a very Irish ethos and it is the flag carrier so while there may be many international applications, they will most likely want to explore the Irish market first.

alan85

GKJK wrote: »

But the unspoken rule is that the Irish get the first whack at it. EI want people who will stay their wholes lives and become Captains and not just bugger off when BA or Virgin come calling. EI has a very Irish ethos and it is the flag carrier so while there may be many international applications, they will most likely want to explore the Irish market first.

I would hope so. A way around it is to take on some cadets from the North where they have a base in Belfast. Technically, they will be taking in cadets from outside the State.

Lustrum

pilot1087 wrote: »

Just a pointer for anyone wishing to apply (if it happens ) ..... do not refer to Aer Lingus as "AL"..... EI is the way to go.

Can we call them Shamrock??

xflyer

Don't depend on any unspoken rule. They've always hired British pilots and with a base in the Belfast and Gatwick, all the more reason. The bond is designed to keep people until they've earned their keep. In any case Aer Lingus is still considered a desirable destination for pilots. So most stay. They've also always taken Northerners, Catholic or Protestant. They are Irish too after all.

Irish ethos, flag carrier? That was then this is now. In practical terms Ryanair carries the flag and maintains it's Irish ethos despite it's multinational status.

There is a certain naivety to some of the posts here. Need I remind you that ALT;) even has a German CEO. It's a low cost carrier now.

Dacian

xflyer wrote: »

Irish ethos, flag carrier? That was then this is now. In practical terms Ryanair carries the flag and maintains it's Irish ethos despite it's multinational status.

There is a certain naivety to some of the posts here. Need I remind you that ALT;) even has a German CEO. It's a low cost carrier now.

But the German CEO is in the process of moving away from the LCC model into being a 'hybrid' carrier. I would like to see them follow the JetBlue/Virgin America model.

EI will hire the pilots they want regardless of origin. They have had a history of Dutch and French pilots too. It is a great chance for some Irish to become a pilot but EI will not relax any requirements just because a guy is Irish. The bond I assume will be sufficient to ensure any successful cadets repay the training cost. Once that is done EI have broken even.


In regard to FR. Personally I view them as the first 'proper' European airline. Irish in origin but multinational in make-up and pax demographic.

high ho

ALT, EI, AL, shamrock, FR , even aer lingus. who cares what we call them here, we all know who we are referring to. thing is, if you are in an interview you wont be calling them anything, you will be talking directly to them.
as for who they will recruit, i honestly think they will recruit mainly irish, if not totally, i guess time will be the only thing that will prove me wrong....

Delancey

Have to agree with xflyer - anyone who thinks Aer Lingus will favour Irish applicants is gravely deluded.
Lest we forget - this is the airline that dumped the Shannon-Heathrow service without a second thought , the days of an airline serving it's ' National Interest ' is more appropriate to 20 years ago.

pilot1087

high ho wrote: »

ALT, EI, AL, shamrock, FR , even aer lingus. who cares what we call them here, we all know who we are referring to. thing is, if you are in an interview you wont be calling them anything, you will be talking directly to them.
as for who they will recruit, i honestly think they will recruit mainly irish, if not totally, i guess time will be the only thing that will prove me wrong....

True, but I was highlighting this in case anyone is abbreviating in their initial application. It makes all the difference.

alan85

True, but I was highlighting this in case anyone is abbreviating in their initial application. It makes all the difference.

If they were to abbreviate at all in an application they shouldn't get the job. You're applying for a job, not filing a flight plan! I wouldn't apply to Tesco using their stock market symbol TSCO... Think about it...

pilot1087

alan85 wrote: »

If they were to abbreviate at all in an application they shouldn't get the job. You're applying for a job, not filing a flight plan! I wouldn't apply to Tesco using their stock market symbol TSCO... Think about it...

Alan, I was trying to help. It was just a suggestion from someone with who might be able to share a bit more information about the process than most. I'll leave it at that.

high ho

for those of you who speak english, french and dutch

http://www.jetaircareer.be/EN/87-Jetairflycadetpilotprogram.html

http://www.jetaircareer.be/jetcadet.pdf

Roar83

So if jetair require English, French and Dutch, all aer lingus have to do is make it a requirement to be able to speak English and Irish! That should keep things local :D

Jocry

Roar83 wrote: »

So if jetair require English, French and Dutch, all aer lingus have to do is make it a requirement to be able to speak English and Irish! That should keep things local :D

I concur

Jammyc

Jocry wrote: »

Roar83 wrote: »

So if jetair require English, French and Dutch, all aer lingus have to do is make it a requirement to be able to speak English and Irish! That should keep things local :D

I concur

It would probably narrow it down to about 5 people as well. :P

GKJK

Hmm some new info here!

I was told by a reliable source that EI are in "advanced" stages of planning for a cadetship, however the stumbling block seems to be cost. "The people in accounts" as it were are expressing concerns over the "profitability" of the structure put forward. I was told that for the 1st few schemes it seems having flight experiance will be a plus as it means less money required from both sides while keeping the bond at the same length.

From what I heard it seems EI are looking to run a few schemes over the next 5 years to keep numbers up, but they will still recruit the majority through DE-FO advertising.

I would trust what I heard as I know the guy who said it fairly well. That being said he stressed that they were not hard facts, but that he was confident that things would be more or less as expressed above.

high ho

GKJK wrote: »

Hmm some new info here!

I was told by a reliable source that EI are in "advanced" stages of planning for a cadetship, however the stumbling block seems to be cost. "The people in accounts" as it were are expressing concerns over the "profitability" of the structure put forward. I was told that for the 1st few schemes it seems having flight experiance will be a plus as it means less money required from both sides while keeping the bond at the same length.

From what I heard it seems EI are looking to run a few schemes over the next 5 years to keep numbers up, but they will still recruit the majority through DE-FO advertising.

I would trust what I heard as I know the guy who said it fairly well. That being said he stressed that they were not hard facts, but that he was confident that things would be more or less as expressed above.

that is the bean counters talking, not the flight op's. this would never work on a practical level. could you imagine a class of 10, each having varing levels of flight experience, each paying different amounts for the course, each having a different contract, each starting / joining the course at different times based on what they are getting credits for, 1 might have a ppl, another has their atpls sat and another has 25 hours and never gone solo. each with their own bad habits already well developed and not starting out a fresh again on a structured ei course, it wouldnt work. im not saying its a bad thing to have previous flight training / exp, not at all, but i do think that all the students need to start at the same place on the course and do it start to finish.
just my 2 pennys worth.

jwcurtin

Roar83 wrote: »

So if jetair require English, French and Dutch, all aer lingus have to do is make it a requirement to be able to speak English and Irish! That should keep things local :D

Bring it on!!! Táim ag súil go mór leis!

GKJK

high ho wrote: »

that is the bean counters talking, not the flight op's. this would never work on a practical level. could you imagine a class of 10, each having varing levels of flight experience, each paying different amounts for the course, each having a different contract, each starting / joining the course at different times based on what they are getting credits for, 1 might have a ppl, another has their atpls sat and another has 25 hours and never gone solo. each with their own bad habits already well developed and not starting out a fresh again on a structured ei course, it wouldnt work. im not saying its a bad thing to have previous flight training / exp, not at all, but i do think that all the students need to start at the same place on the course and do it start to finish.
just my 2 pennys worth.

Well no airline will take a guy who has anything above ATPLs onto a cadetship. If he has a CPL then there would be no use in having them just there for an MEIR! However the idea of a guy with a ppl having "bad habits" is a bit overstated in the context of a cadetship. During CPL and MEIR training any bad habits could be cleaned up easily. If a guy has bad habits that threaten his ability to get a CPL or that cannot be ironed out then he shouldnt have a ppl as he is a danger to himself and others out there. After all that is what SEP renewal is all about!

The structure EI would inject into a cadetship would centre largely on procedure and procedural awareness. These issues usually crop up in CPL/MEIR training. They are not likely to go over board in PPL training. At the core of it a PPL is useless for anyone wanting to be an airline pilot. It is in affect a "license to learn" and more of a stepping stone to CPL. The only preocedure's that could come into PPL would be when landing lights go on and off and when flaps are raised/lowered etc on the ground. Anything beyone that would be a CPL matter I'd say

high ho

GKJK wrote: »

Well no airline will take a guy who has anything above ATPLs onto a cadetship. If he has a CPL then there would be no use in having them just there for an MEIR! However the idea of a guy with a ppl having "bad habits" is a bit overstated in the context of a cadetship. During CPL and MEIR training any bad habits could be cleaned up easily. If a guy has bad habits that threaten his ability to get a CPL or that cannot be ironed out then he shouldnt have a ppl as he is a danger to himself and others out there. After all that is what SEP renewal is all about!

The structure EI would inject into a cadetship would centre largely on procedure and procedural awareness. These issues usually crop up in CPL/MEIR training. They are not likely to go over board in PPL training. At the core of it a PPL is useless for anyone wanting to be an airline pilot. It is in affect a "license to learn" and more of a stepping stone to CPL. The only preocedure's that could come into PPL would be when landing lights go on and off and when flaps are raised/lowered etc on the ground. Anything beyone that would be a CPL matter I'd say

you have quoted me but not replied to what i said.
so how do you think the course would pan out with different levels of previous training been taken into account up to atpl exams passed. ie, who pays how much, who starts when etc....

either make it current ppl as min requirement or dont....

GKJK

high ho wrote: »

you have quoted me but not replied to what i said.
so how do you think the course would pan out with different levels of previous training been taken into account up to atpl exams passed. ie, who pays how much, who starts when etc....

either make it current ppl as min requirement or dont....

Well I know in the old days that it was taken on an hours basis. If a guy from the air corps came in with 3000 hours and atpls he went straight to CPL. You seem to look at this like a school, when it isnt!

If EI take on 10 cadets 4 may finish in 12 months and the remaining 6 in 18 depending on how they take to the course work and that was always the way. When you pass MEIR and MCC you go to Type Rating and then on line. They dont all have to finish together and to suggest they would is unrealistic!

EI will get a flight school and take the 10 cadets and say on we want 10 fATPLs. If 5 of those guys have PPLs and 100h then they will finish quicker than the raw guys but EI get 10 pilots within 18 months and that's all they care about.
If you go to any integrated flight school you'll see classes starting with a mixture of PPLs and raw. The PPLs finish quicker as they have less to do.

Jocry

Im not going to agree nor completely disagree with what's been said but I think the idea of Aer Lingus actually going down this route is simply because:
1) they're not happy with the DEFO's which are coming through the FTOs at the moment (fact) and want to oversee the training their potential employee receives, ensuring confidence that when the student completes training and "is ready" to fly, that Aer Lingus dont have to in effect retrain and iron our bad habits as it has been put here.
2) they want to shape and mould the cadet into one of their own whom they expect to receive quite a subtantial ROI on over the life of the pilot - this being achieved by working the cadet towards the mentaility that the company will be their one and only stop after training.

I dont think that whether you have 5hrs, 15hrs, or even a PPL will make a huge difference. You have to look at the bigger picture here, how much will having a PPL save the company REALLY, when they're looking at employing the person for 30+ years. While yes, cost obviously is a factor, I dont think that the possible saving of maybe €8k =-> €10 per cadet will be the turning point for this course or its requirements.

Aer Lingus will want the best of the best out of this scheme and by setting stipulations of requirements like this, will it not be ruling out possibly the candidate who is exactly what they are looking for but for one reason or another has not been able to build upto the PPL?!! That aside, airlines and recruitment being the strange organisations they are, there is an undertone that for cadetships while obviously they would like to know that the person they're hiring has atleast gone up a couple of times and doesnt puke at the first shudder the plane makes, they less time spent flying as a pilot the better from the company's perspective

While what I have said above isnt just some random rant that Ive typed, having spent some time researching this and discussing with EI pilots and people in the airline recruitment game with previous EI connections, I do believe that no one here really knows what is going to be contained in their press release advert for this scheme.

Coming from a side where I havent been able to achieve my license and build many hours over the last number of years, but who passionately craves a chance to fly for this company, I hope that the Ab Initio route is one which they will follow. However chances of actually getting a shot after that, mmmmmm, quite slim I reckon as I suspect a SERIOUS amount of applicants from far field!!

.......and since this is in effect a rumours forum I shall leave you with this, from what I hear, the decision has already been made and they're down to pretty much finalising the campaign for release in the not too distant future, so we'll see where this leads

xflyer

GKJK, I think you misunderstand how an integrated ATPL course works. The whole class goes through together, PPL or not whatever the hours. Initially there's the ground school phase. Several months sitting in a classroom studying followed by the exams. Then the flying starts and it doesn't matter if you have a PPL or not. They all go through the same process. Obviously someone with a few hours will find it slightly easier initially. But it's important to remember that the standard of flying expected is higher for the CPL than for the PPL. Much tighter tolerances. Any difference in hours wll only arise during the hour building phase. It all evens out in the end. In fact a PPL isn't even issued to integrated students.

There are no staggered finishing dates. Some people will be quicker to learn than others. It's catered for in the schedule. They will finish together.

Jocry, while you indeed right that Aer Lingus want to mould their pilots and that sometimes they are unhappy with some of their DEFOs. This is in fact a peculiarity of Aer Lingus, something they share with BA. It doesn't mean their way is the best way. No doubt it's due to the fact that a large proportion of their pilots came down the cadetship route.

Other airlines seem to have no trouble getting pilots and moulding them to their modus operandi, notably Ryanair. Does anyone honestly think Ryanair pilots are not as good as Aer Lingus pilots?

But of course Aer Lingus is entitled to recruit their pilots anyway they wish. They are old school in that. They are a legacy airline after all. Personally I think it's time to move on from that.

For anyone interested in being an Aer Lingus pilot by all means apply for the cadetship but if you don't get it and you really really want it. Then become a pilot anyway and apply as a DEFO. But you really don't have to be an Aer Lingus pilot to have decent career and in any case it's likely that the T&Cs will not be as favourable in EI as it used to be as evidenced by the recent strike threat.

Aer Lingus pilot seems to be a bit of a holy grail among some misty eyed quarters. But really it's just a job, being a pilot is just a job in the end. It has it's upsides but plenty of downsides too.

Jocry

xflyer wrote: »

Aer Lingus pilot seems to be a bit of a holy grail among some misty eyed quarters. But really it's just a job, being a pilot is just a job in the end. It has it's upsides but plenty of downsides too.

I agree and as someone recently said to me the asset while one (the pilot) might think is the pilot, its not. The real asset is the plane itself! You are employeed to operate a vehicle from point A to B, simple as. Responsibilities are greater than lets say a train or bus and alot more can go wrong, but at the end of the day it still is what it is, a mode of transport. The pilot is just the driver albeit trained to a higher more technical level and with a view a millions times better

John_Mc

Jocry wrote: »

I agree and as someone recently said to me the asset while one (the pilot) might think is the pilot, its not. The real asset is the plane itself! You are employeed to operate a vehicle from point A to B, simple as. Responsibilities are greater than lets say a train or bus and alot more can go wrong, but at the end of the day it still is what it is, a mode of transport. The pilot is just the driver albeit trained to a higher more technical level and with a view a millions times better

Yeah but you can break any job into simple terms like that. E.g A formula 1 driver is just driving a car around in circles really fast