AL Cadet programme

Bearcat

hearing rumours of announcement v shortly of a cadet programme.........:)

David086

Weren't they recently sacking pilots?

Cessna_Pilot

Not sacked, made redundant. Volutarily.

I can't see this happen, considering they are hiring direct entry fully qualified FOs at the moment.

If they ever do go down the cadet route again, it will cost the cadet a LOT of money.

MoeJay

Watch this space!

There is going to be a deluge of applications in the not-too-distant future...

Jim236

If it does go ahead I'd say it'll be a cadet programme along the lines of what CityJet did a year or 2 ago where they guaranteed anyone accepted into the programme a job but they had to pay for their training. For Aer Lingus its also a way of hiring in new pilots on reduced terms than what current pilots would be on.

EI-A330

Aer Lingus at the dublin flyer said they are 90% sure of running a cadet program this year they where just sorting out prices with schools. The chances of being the lucky few to get selected will be very slim thousands will be applying .

Delancey

Will it ever happen that AL will pay the cadets costs or is that something we will be telling our grandchildren , '' I remember the days when .....''

If the cadet has to pay the cost of training then I guess the deluge of applications will be a trickle.

searescue

Bearcat wrote: »

hearing rumours of announcement v shortly of a cadet programme.........:)

Hope so, was recently at Oxford for the EasyJet scheme....missed out by two answers

high ho

what are the terms and conditions on the easyjet scheme? is it pay for yourself and how much is the course?

smellslikeshoes

high ho wrote: »

what are the terms and conditions on the easyjet scheme? is it pay for yourself and how much is the course?

If you have to ask if it is pay for yourself you should do lots more research
There is no such thing as airlines paying for your initial training anymore.
The easyjet scheme is 85k sterling, add in living costs and you're looking at about 100k sterling :eek:

GKJK

I was at the flyer exhibition in Dublin and I probed the AL people fairly deeply on this issue. The guy said that they were looking to try and give the guys who dont have 100k in their back pocket a chance and he expressed the opinion that some of the new recruits on Direct entry in this financial climate were a bit "stuffy". So I cannot see them charging a massive amount of money if this is the case!
(as a matter of interest the lady from IALPA gave me some interesting info on why they might want to start a cadetship that I shall not give out here...pm me if you want to know! Although I think most AL guys already know about the problems the training department in AL are having with new guys!)

Now I already have a PPL and am close to sitting my 1st batch of ATPLs. The guy said that wouldnt harm my chances and would just mean that I'd get money and time off. As long as I didnt do a CPL I could still get onto the cadetship. I alas have the problem of not having a Uni degree as to put it straight my family just didnt have the money for both Uni and flying, so I made the direct "what I really wanted" choice.
I've posted on here before of my desire for an AL job, just hope if there is a deluge I'm not drowned in it!

Anybody know what they will look for in applicants?

EI-A330

Hi all, just wondering has anybody got any news on aer lingus cadetship is it still going ahead??? thanks

FlutterinBantam

David086 wrote: »

Weren't they recently sacking pilots?

Offering good redundancy to highly paid senior pilots and hiring in others on a different pay scale.

That's my reading of it.

aviteire

This scheme looks interesting. I hope it does go ahead. Will give a big leg up to alot of lads I know who want to be pilots but cant afford the training.
I remember the old cadet scheme they had and reading the entry requirements from the last intake in 2001 I think. You needed a really good leaving cert to apply. Much higher than the air corps leaving cert requirements so that could come back to bite some people...But who knows..This time they might be more slack on entry requirements

GKJK

aviteire wrote: »

This scheme looks interesting. I hope it does go ahead. Will give a big leg up to alot of lads I know who want to be pilots but cant afford the training.
I remember the old cadet scheme they had and reading the entry requirements from the last intake in 2001 I think. You needed a really good leaving cert to apply. Much higher than the air corps leaving cert requirements so that could come back to bite some people...But who knows..This time they might be more slack on entry requirements

I remember this requirement. However that only applies to people who are straight out of school at 18! If you had a degree they looked at that and how that went for you and if you had flight experiance they looked at your exam results for PPL ATPLs etc. Generally for any sort of job if you are under 20 they look at your LC as it still applied to your academic level. If you are over 20 it is likely that however good your LC it is not a good indicater of your current academic level.
I had a cousin who applied in 2000 I think. He had an average LC, but had a PPL and they just looked at his PPL exam results and asked him some aviation questions. He missed the flight test 1st time out for that but they just tested his knowledge on PPL matters. All they were concerned about in his LC was that he passed everything and got above a C in maths and physics!

high ho

i dont think having a ppl, or atpl exams passed will be a deal clincher. i also dont think that for the few lucky choosen ones who make the scheme that their leaving cert results will even be looked at as it will be an older clientel this time around. people with life experience and qualifications. i dont see ei putting a jumped up 18 year old with 3 higher c's and a science subject into the righthand seat of an a320. could you imagine the arrogance he/she could not avoid having. ei are unhappy with the standard of the currently being recruited direct entry f/o's. they are taking longer to get to line check that the previous cadets of old, mainly due to not coming from a controlled and monitored training scheme. so if they do go ahead with this cadet mentored scheme, it will have to be right first time or else it will fall on its head for good. so this said, the competition will be tough and having developed flying skills and bad habbits may not be what ei are looking for....
good luck to all who apply....

GKJK

high ho wrote: »

i dont think having a ppl, or atpl exams passed will be a deal clincher. i also dont think that for the few lucky choosen ones who make the scheme that their leaving cert results will even be looked at as it will be an older clientel this time around. people with life experience and qualifications. i dont see ei putting a jumped up 18 year old with 3 higher c's and a science subject into the righthand seat of an a320. could you imagine the arrogance he/she could not avoid having. ei are unhappy with the standard of the currently being recruited direct entry f/o's. they are taking longer to get to line check that the previous cadets of old, mainly due to not coming from a controlled and monitored training scheme. so if they do go ahead with this cadet mentored scheme, it will have to be right first time or else it will fall on its head for good. so this said, the competition will be tough and having developed flying skills and bad habbits may not be what ei are looking for....
good luck to all who apply....

I asked that very question at the FLYER exhibition (age range for recuitment) and the SFO who was talking to me said that in his opinion the age would be 21-30 for cadets. A key theme is what he said(and he repeated it in the seminar) was the economic situation in Ireland, and it seems AL maybe be looking to give young guys who cannot get jobs or the funding to train as pilots a chance.
The idea of wanting older guys with life experiance is fair enough and I cannot say for sure that this is incorrect, however anybody who left school 2008+ and didnt go to college is highly unlikey to have picked up any meaningful work experiance given the job market in Ireland not existing.
The AL guy indicated that flight experiance while not a job winner would be a plus as it displays "trainability" and would cut some hours/time off your cadet training and save everyone some money.
The last thing AL want is an experianced 25 year old former engineer with a great personality, drive and understanding of the AL ethos on the cadetship if he pukes his guts up 50 feet off the runway in his Piper 1st day of flight training.
Apart from the lack of skill being shown in sim checks and painful crawl to line checks AL are not impressed with the "stuffy" attitudes of some of the guys coming for the DE-FO positions. A lot of them seem to "have the money" to train in these economic times. Maybe AL want to give the "less well off" lads a go with the cadetship!

high ho

GKJK wrote: »

I asked that very question at the FLYER exhibition (age range for recuitment) and the SFO who was talking to me said that in his opinion the age would be 21-30 for cadets. A key theme is what he said(and he repeated it in the seminar) was the economic situation in Ireland, and it seems AL maybe be looking to give young guys who cannot get jobs or the funding to train as pilots a chance.
The idea of wanting older guys with life experiance is fair enough and I cannot say for sure that this is incorrect, however anybody who left school 2008+ and didnt go to college is highly unlikey to have picked up any meaningful work experiance given the job market in Ireland not existing.
The AL guy indicated that flight experiance while not a job winner would be a plus as it displays "trainability" and would cut some hours/time off your cadet training and save everyone some money.
The last thing AL want is an experianced 25 year old former engineer with a great personality, drive and understanding of the AL ethos on the cadetship if he pukes his guts up 50 feet off the runway in his Piper 1st day of flight training.
Apart from the lack of skill being shown in sim checks and painful crawl to line checks AL are not impressed with the "stuffy" attitudes of some of the guys coming for the DE-FO positions. A lot of them seem to "have the money" to train in these economic times. Maybe AL want to give the "less well off" lads a go with the cadetship!

yes the last thing ei want is an experianced 25 year old former engineer with a great personality, drive and understanding of the ei ethos on the cadetship if he pukes his guts up 50 feet off the runway in his Piper 1st day of flight training.... the second last thing they want is an arrogant 18-20 year old who thinks he/she is the best thing since sliced bread....
who said its going to be in a piper? do you know where the training is going to be conducted?

the economic situation does not mean that ei are looking to give young guys and girls with no money 'a chance' as you put it. it is not for your benefit that they are considering a cadetship. they are considering a cadetship to right the wrongs of the last 10 years, to allow themselves have the pick of this talented nation and so by lifting the limitation of finance and not just making it a millionaires childs game as it has become over the last number of years. it is purely to allow them have the pick of the bunch and they are right to do so, as investing some money in cadets, who will pay them back with service is a sound investment if done right.

does anybody have any info on when it will happen or what schools they are considering? and the finance/bond arrangement.

GKJK

high ho wrote: »

yes the last thing ei want is an experianced 25 year old former engineer with a great personality, drive and understanding of the ei ethos on the cadetship if he pukes his guts up 50 feet off the runway in his Piper 1st day of flight training.... the second last thing they want is an arrogant 18-20 year old who thinks he/she is the best thing since sliced bread....
who said its going to be in a piper? do you know where the training is going to be conducted?

the economic situation does not mean that ei are looking to give young guys and girls with no money 'a chance' as you put it. it is not for your benefit that they are considering a cadetship. they are considering a cadetship to right the wrongs of the last 10 years, to allow themselves have the pick of this talented nation and so by lifting the limitation of finance and not just making it a millionaires childs game as it has become over the last number of years. it is purely to allow them have the pick of the bunch and they are right to do so, as investing some money in cadets, who will pay them back with service is a sound investment if done right.

does anybody have any info on when it will happen or what schools they are considering? and the finance/bond arrangement.

I didnt say that they would take 18-20 yos and I picked the piper as an example off the top of my head.
I have heard various people in the aviation business(from flight school up) over the past few weeks state that AL will not look to take "the best" of our youth, they will take the best of our pilots. Even in the old days a high number of the guys on the cadetship were former air corps who were sitting cpls and IRs on the AL coppers. I had a retired skipper tell me that he would guess 20-30% of the old intake were just off the street and the rest had a few years in the air under their belt as instructors or military.

There is no official line on when it will happen but the consistant rumour I've heard is to start training in early 2012. Jerez is the consistant line for the school, but OAA have their hat in the ring also. Early indications were PTC but it seems PTC turned then down as AL have booted a lot of PTC grads from type ratings and laughed them out of sim checks.
As for the bond by chance I know someone in a bank who said AL were in contact with them. A loan of 50-100k(depends on where they finally base the course and the applicant's experiance level plus how much AL want to fund themselves) guaranteed by AL (as in they will give you a job after so it will be paid back) and paid out in 3 installments. Bond could be anywhere from 5-8 years based on the old way and what other airlines have done

Cessna_Pilot

GKJK wrote: »

. Early indications were PTC but it seems PTC turned then down as AL have booted a lot of PTC grads from type ratings and laughed them out of sim checks.

Think you mean Aer Lingus turned PTC down:rolleyes:

GKJK

Cessna_Pilot wrote: »

Think you mean Aer Lingus turned PTC down:rolleyes:

That's not what it said in the booklet and advertising campaign PTC put out.....:P

I intended to tinge that statemnet with irony, but upon reading it again I see it didnt come through

high ho

GKJK wrote: »

That's not what it said in the booklet and advertising campaign PTC put out.....:P

I intended to tinge that statemnet with irony, but upon reading it again I see it didnt come through

what does it say on booklet and advertising campaign? you have to hand it to them, ptc have a massive advertising campaign, they pop up everywhere, its a pity they are glorified (denying) modular, they could spend their money better if you ask me..

GKJK

high ho wrote: »

what does it say on booklet and advertising campaign? you have to hand it to them, ptc have a massive advertising campaign, they pop up everywhere, its a pity they are glorified (denying) modular, they could spend their money better if you ask me..

That was a jibe at their massive budget. PTC are getting exposed now really for what they are. Their rep with Ryanair is in tatters and carriers such as AL and Aer Arann are getting wise to the "in house" testing that goes on there. From what I've heard only Flybe and netjets(and one guy went to DHL) are giving their grads the time of day anymore..

pilot1087

GKJK wrote: »

That was a jibe at their massive budget. PTC are getting exposed now really for what they are. Their rep with Ryanair is in tatters and carriers such as AL and Aer Arann are getting wise to the "in house" testing that goes on there. From what I've heard only Flybe and netjets(and one guy went to DHL) are giving their grads the time of day anymore..

Just a pointer for anyone wishing to apply (if it happens ) ..... do not refer to Aer Lingus as "AL"..... EI is the way to go.

GKJK

pilot1087 wrote: »

Just a pointer for anyone wishing to apply (if it happens ) ..... do not refer to Aer Lingus as "AL"..... EI is the way to go.

Noted

aviteire

18,21,26,33,57 !
Age is just a number.

You either tick the box or you dont.
If it meant for you, then you will be selected, if its not meant for you, then something else will work out for you at some stage in your life.

Just wait until it is actually advertised !

Shamrock just want normal, sound irish lads and girls who can organise stuff, operate the machine with cop on and common sense, be comfortable to work with in the office and most important in alot of pilots views, someone who is good craic to spend time down-route with !!!

After all, we all want to fly to see the world, meet other flyers, have the craic in the bars down-route and live long and die happy!

Goodluck to any of you that go for it.
My brother got on it in 1999 and is delighted with the job.

xflyer

Shamrock just want normal, sound irish lads and girls

Drop the word Irish and you're right. It will be open to all and you can guarantee they will be flooded with applications from all over including substantial numbers of British applicants.

They are not in it to 'right wrongs' or give Irish people with no money a 'chance'. They're a business not an arm of the state anymore. They need pilots and this is the their chosen method of obtaining them.

No need for any rose tinted view of this process. Cadetships are simply a means of obtaining suitable employees. No more no less.

GKJK

xflyer wrote: »

Drop the word Irish and you're right. It will be open to all and you can guarantee they will be flooded with applications from all over including substantial numbers of British applicants.

But the unspoken rule is that the Irish get the first whack at it. EI want people who will stay their wholes lives and become Captains and not just bugger off when BA or Virgin come calling. EI has a very Irish ethos and it is the flag carrier so while there may be many international applications, they will most likely want to explore the Irish market first.

alan85

GKJK wrote: »

But the unspoken rule is that the Irish get the first whack at it. EI want people who will stay their wholes lives and become Captains and not just bugger off when BA or Virgin come calling. EI has a very Irish ethos and it is the flag carrier so while there may be many international applications, they will most likely want to explore the Irish market first.

I would hope so. A way around it is to take on some cadets from the North where they have a base in Belfast. Technically, they will be taking in cadets from outside the State.

Lustrum

pilot1087 wrote: »

Just a pointer for anyone wishing to apply (if it happens ) ..... do not refer to Aer Lingus as "AL"..... EI is the way to go.

Can we call them Shamrock??

xflyer

Don't depend on any unspoken rule. They've always hired British pilots and with a base in the Belfast and Gatwick, all the more reason. The bond is designed to keep people until they've earned their keep. In any case Aer Lingus is still considered a desirable destination for pilots. So most stay. They've also always taken Northerners, Catholic or Protestant. They are Irish too after all.

Irish ethos, flag carrier? That was then this is now. In practical terms Ryanair carries the flag and maintains it's Irish ethos despite it's multinational status.

There is a certain naivety to some of the posts here. Need I remind you that ALT;) even has a German CEO. It's a low cost carrier now.