A restoration tale (with pics)

dnme

The problem with the drain plug assembly's is that they come with a flange that has two screw holes for self tapper screws. My boat has no timber transom at floor level, all I have is a grp skin so cant screw self tappers into that. So can anyone thing of a better solution? a better plug assembly?

fergal.b

Drill the hole for the bung and coat it in mastic then drill two small holes for stainless steal nut and bolt and washers and coat with mastic right through the hole or you could put timber blocks inside your transom and screw into them.

dnme

fergal.b wrote: »

Drill the hole for the bung and coat it in mastic then drill two small holes for stainless steal nut and bolt and washers and coat with mastic right through the hole or you could put timber blocks inside your transom and screw into them.

ah, are you suggesting an external mount?

fergal.b

Yep thats the way they go, you open them from outside the boat.

dnme

fergal.b wrote: »

Yep thats the way they go, you open them from outside the boat.

What happens if they fail when on the water? or if you put in the boat, your standing in it and remember that you forgot to screw the plug in? Is there some kind of safety valve on the inside?

dnme

Day 36b

Just finished up fabricating the knee between showers. Spitting rain on and off so I have abandoned the life aquatic for the evening.


1. I used to be able to play football round here, not anymore.



2. After flush trimming and sanding the knee laminate, time for a quick roundover on some of it's surface.



3. Does it go in like this (with th a back piece of stringer trimmed off) ?


3b. or this?

fergal.b

This is how a lot of boats sink by people forgetting to put the bung back in :eek:
On my launch day a friend offered to come along as a back up boat for me and had forgotten to put in his bung , as it turned out there were divers around who were able to put it in, you can also drive a boat at speed and it will drain out but I don't think you will be doing that. I sometimes carry wooden plugs on the boat that can be hammered into holes to block them up.
Nice knee

dnme

fergal.b wrote: »

This is how a lot of boats sink by people forgetting to put the bung back in :eek:
On my launch day a friend offered to come along as a back up boat for me and had forgotten to put in his bung , as it turned out there were divers around who were able to put it in, you can also drive a boat at speed and it will drain out but I don't think you will be doing that. I sometimes carry wooden plugs on the boat that can be hammered into holes to block them up.
Nice knee

Which image would you go with, 3 or 3b?

fergal.b

dnme wrote: »

Which image would you go with, 3 or 3b?

3b for me.

Slig

While there are advantages to having the bung inside (ours is accessed from the sump at the well on the inside) practically it makes more sense to have it on the outside. its a routine that you get into:
1. When launching, take off the holding straps from the back of the boat, release the front and put in the bung.
2. When recovering, once the boat is out of the water but still on the slip unscrew the bung. very very satisfying to see the amount of water that comes out.

Happened to me twice with bungs missing, the first time I was sailing an "unsinkable" laser pico on lough allen when I realised that it was turning kinda sloppy and there was way too much water coming over the bow. It ended up like that scene from the beginning of Pirates of the Carribean, with me standing up to my knees in the water holding on to the mast as the boat slowly turtled. I hold the record of being the only person in Lough Allen Sailing clubs history to sink a pico, one of my proudest moments

The second time was in a speed boat, which is why I say that its not practicle to use an open bung as a draining method. If you go fast yes it will slowly start to drain but it comes in alot quicker than it goes out especially when the heaviest piece of kit on the boat is hanging over it. Very uncomfortable.

Slightly OT but I heard a fisherman with a double skin lake boat say that they used to open the bung when out in the water and allow water between the skins to slow the boat drifting, kinda risky in my opinion but I suppose so is filling an open boat full of knives and sharp hooks and taking it out in rough weather

alexlyons

Ye bungs are one of those things you really need to get into a routine with.
Generally when we're teaching people and running them through their new boat, we get them to put a sign of some sort reminding them about the bung by the steering wheel, and if its a pull start engine, a sticker on the engine itself. And finally the bung should always have a very specific home when it is not in its actual receiver.

dnme

Folks,

Here is that drain plug assembly that Fergal pointed to earlier on ebay.
Vendor says it fits a certain diameter tube. What's the story? does this thing need a tube?

alexlyons

They definitely do not need a tube. It may be in relation to a pump attachment. Having this system would allow you to seal the hole for the pump if there was a need.. But you den't have to have a tube, its basically a plug for a hole

edit: Also note the way it says the plug stays attached when unscrewed. That can be handy but I'd be careful with a system like that. The last thing you want is to unscrew it, tow the boat home and find the bung missing. If it was me I'd remove the end of the plug that stopped it from coming out and store it myself. Up to you but based on my experience with them, its not something I like, even if it is a brass piece that is stopping it.

Shane Slv

Could you use a non-return valve? On the two rescue boats we use their are two non-return valves on the transom, we call them self bailers. Granted they are small ribs (glorified dinghy's as i call them) so maybe it wont be suitable for your type of boat. My dad owns a boat similar to yours, a bit bigger maybe. Below the transom their is a small well where the water drains into, its pumped out every now and then using a bilge pump.

dnme

Shane Slv wrote: »

Could you use a non-return valve? On the two rescue boats we use their are two non-return valves on the transom, we call them self bailers. Granted they are small ribs (glorified dinghy's as i call them) so maybe it wont be suitable for your type of boat. My dad owns a boat similar to yours, a bit bigger maybe. Below the transom their is a small well where the water drains into, its pumped out every now and then using a bilge pump.

Yeah a non return valve would make sense to me. As it is, these external mount plugs just seem to be a fundamental design mistake in that they are so easy to forget or go wrong. But I reckon a NRV system would cost a lot.

fergal.b

Stick with the bung, NRV can stick and get dirt in them and fail when the bung is in it's in you just have to set a reminder in your head to always check it, like before you push off the trailer check the bung or have a tag on your keys saying "check the bung" ! I'll send you an email on your launch day to remind you to "check your bung"

Slig

As above, any NRV that is flexible enough to allow ater out would be a serious weak spot in terms of letting water in.

It really is routine, miss it once and you'll never do it again:D

As mentioned before, have somewhere that the bung always goes, for the speedboat its always in the glove box.

I dont think my opinion will contribute much to this discussion (I'd have gotten about as far as sanding down half of the hull before I gave up) but if it were me I would have 1 bung and a manual bilge pump with a tube into the bilge area (similar to the electric set up that you intend putting in)

An automatic bilge pump is ideal for a boat that may have constant small amounts of water ingress. For example, if it has a prop shaft or rudder protruding through the hull, plumbing and water inlets or a boat that stays on the water for long periods of time. With the amount of detail and work you are putting into the hull I dont think this will pose a problem. The only water I can see getting into your boat would be from weather, wake or dog. In this situation, where once off, large volumes of water need to be removed I would prefer not to have to rely on a battery operated electrical component.

Shane Slv

Fergal you have a point about the valves sticking with dirt.

A few weeks back we brought scouts onto a island on the shannon estuary for a few nights camping, The island is surrounded by mud and by the time it came to picking them up they were destroyed in mud and sh!te and so was their gear. we loaded them on anyway but about 5 mins from home the stern of the boat was very low and water started coming up true the floor. The boats are pritty much unsinkable so we were in no real danger, A few of the scouts were holding on to their life jackets pritty tight do . We got back anyway and striped the boats to find the self bailers clogged with mud, small stones, Their was even a hair pin stuck in one of them.

We have rubber bungs that we can put into the holes in the self bailers if we are going to be stopped for a long time in the water

Maybe you could do someting similar by putting a NRV valve aswell as a bung just incase you forget...

sailordog13

Fantastic thread, well done !!!
As the wise boaters above say, stick with the bung, and get in to a routine. keep some form of back up handy that you can 'stem the flow' with from inside, if needed.
A NRV will lead to complacency, and is one of those things that no one attends to when it is working well. We can all imagine what would happen if the boat is left unattended for a few hours, or overnight (as you said you would like to overnight onboard) if it was working less than perfectly !!

PS, your dedication to your diary is outstanding, even after the bad days, you still find the time to keep us all in the loop. Will be checking in regularly from now.

SD13

alexlyons

One thing you could do, is make a habit of leaving the bung in and only removing it if water needs to be drained. You could pull the boat out, take the bung out and drain the water, which would take a minute or two at most, and then pop the bung back in. That way you know where the bung is and should never have the issue of forgetting about it.

dnme

Guys,

Can you please recommend me a steering cable / system. I an after an elegant solution, i.e. NOT those awful pully cables. A rack and pinion system or rotary system. I need to get the assembly and cable ordered solely for the purpose of constructing the helm which I want to do soon.

So forget engines and hookups etc, that's not the point, the point is solely to be able to build my helm console around whatever steering system you might recommend.

EDIT:
Also, can you tell me, what is the best methof for building refits such as seats, furniture etc. Take the starboard deck seat that I cut out; how would you go about rebuilding that? I am using laths and plywood. Do I epoxy laths down to the floor and sides and then build a frame off of them, cover with plywood or what?

Many thanks

breghall

personally I have a rack and pinion system and I find it great, no feedback from the engine so it's comfortable to handle , can't speak for rotary but I'm sure someone else will...

fergal.b

Rotary would be the most common and the cheapest the rack and pinion are used more when you are tight for space behind the helm, always make sure you have enough room for the cable to come out the other side and there are no sharp angles in the cable. Here is a link on how to measure for it. http://www.iboats.com/basics/measure_steering_cables.html It might also help to know what engine you are going to use as some like the merc's have a tube on the engine that the cable screws into and on others the cable is mounted in a ball and socket joint or a transom mount.


I know I said you were welcome to these but I would prefer to see you buy a new one as you don't want this to fail when you are coming into a harbour :eek:

dnme

Nice shoes:D

fergal.b

dnme wrote: »

Nice shoes:D

They are my deck shoes for when I'm out on my decking.:D
Boats are in my blood and some people even say I have boat feet

As for your seats I would epoxy in some fixing blocks along where you are going to fix the framework that way you can always remove it if you have to, adding the plywood will strengthen up the frame, I would also coat the ply in epoxy especially along the edge and paint or varnish where it will be exposed to sun light as epoxy has no uv protection. Remember storage is a big problem so make every space accessible through a door or hatch.

dnme

Another question for the experts,

My drain plug should be arriving any day now. But I am wondering how do I gop about drilling the hole for it. I assume I drill from inside out, but how do I determine precisely where, what angle, how to drill straight etc.

See the two images, I am guessing I start as per image #1 and would like to exit as per image #2. How would you go about drilling this without making a bodge of it?

1.


2.

fergal.b

Drill from the outside in that way the gelcoat won't chip off, start with a small pilot hole by holding a right angle against the transom and the drill if all looks well on the inside move onto the bigger bit, it doesn't have to be perfect as the hole will be a bit bigger than the bung so you should have room to make the bung fit flush. If you find with the pilot hole that you are drilling through wood then drill an even bigger hole than the bung needs and fill it with epoxy and redrill it with the size you need when it sets then put waterproof silicone all around the bung and fix in place.

dnme

So drill from the outside and hope for the best?

Where would you put the drill bit precisely? will I put it on the upper part of keel backing ? and drill upwards? (I was hoping for a hole that would have a slope downwards from transom interior to exterior. This is gonna be a tricky little job me fears...

fergal.b

If you measure from the center of the bung to the outside of the fixing point on it that will tell you how much of a flat surface you will need to come down on the keel presuming that the bung fixing points are length ways, if it fits sideways just come down a bit more than the circumference of the bung.
If you do drill at a right angle to the keel you will end up with a longer hole that may not match up with the hole you made in the knee where as if you come through the transom it should. The good thing about pilot holes is that they are easy to fill if you get it wrong

dnme

Here's a pic of the transom taken just now, can someone edit it and place an x or dot where they think I should start drilling?