A restoration tale (with pics)

dnme

Here's an image from a few weeks back, it shows the central stringer and how it forms a brace to the transom. You can even see that the floor starts to raise again as it approaches the transom. This boat was never originally designed for drainage eh?

What if I cut out a notch in the brace and place the sump into the transom right under that notch?

alexlyons

by sump do you mean the sump plug (i.e. a bung)? all this sump and pump stuff is confusing me no end!!

If so then that sounds like a brilliant idea. both sides will drain perfectly into that. The floor does rise, but it will be counter acted by even a small raise of the bow, either on the trailer or in the water with power.

dnme

alexlyons wrote: »

by sump do you mean the sump plug (i.e. a bung)? all this sump and pump stuff is confusing me no end!!

If so then that sounds like a brilliant idea. both sides will drain perfectly into that. The floor does rise, but it will be counter acted by even a small raise of the bow, either on the trailer or in the water with power.

sump / bung / plug = a hole in the transom that takes a screw in plug.

pump = a device to expel water.

Fergal, note that I am not really thinking bilge pump, I am thinking of a pump that will live up on deck somewhere, perhaps in beside batteries or wherever, it lhas an intake tube that goes down through ply floor and is attached to lowest point of hull floor. It can then be switched on / off to drain floor when required. So not a bilge pump, but some kind of 12v pump with an intake tube and outlet tube. Do you get me?

alexlyons

dnme wrote: »

sump / bung / plug = a hole in the transom that takes a screw in plug.

pump = a device to expel water.

Fergal, note that I am not really thinking bilge pump, I am thinking of a pump that will live up on deck somewhere, perhaps in beside batteries or wherever, it lhas an intake tube that goes down through ply floor and is attached to lowest point of hull floor. It can then be switched on / off to drain floor when required. So not a bilge pump, but some kind of 12v pump with an intake tube and outlet tube. Do you get me?

sorry about that, never heard to it being referred to as a sump before. I'd associate a sump as a sort of well where a pump would draw water, the lowest point in a boat, generally deliberately made, not a natural low point, again, apologies.

You could get a manual pump that would do the same job with out the hassle of electrics..?

fergal.b

Going back over your posts it looks like it had a manual pump in the cab or at the helm so maybe when it's sits in the water thats where the lowest point is on the boat, might be worth checking on the norman site as to where to put the suction pipe, going by your last photo it may not be the transom. Just a thought

dnme

Just another thought, would you be inclined to extend the drainage to the cabin? I will be putting cabinets / kitchen in there, but also a ply floor over the hull floor. So will I put drainage holes into the bulkhead at floor level?

alexlyons

If there is no way for water to naturally drain from the cabin to your outlet points (pump location and bung), then if definitely do something so that the water can be removed. The last thing you want is water that you can't easily remove slashing about.

Alone thing I forgot is that in our work boats we have a bung located at the lowest point of the boat when on land pointing straight down (trailer/cradle) which is generally around the bilge pump. This allows all the water to easily drain out which makes washing the boat out very very easy. The bung can be put in from under the hull or from the bilge, it doesnt matter which.
The hull bung is great for getting all the water out of her when on land as the bilge pump won't get all the water, especially if the stern isn't a natural drainage point (if it was then this would be pointless!!).

fergal.b

One way to find the lowest point of the bilge when the boat is at rest is to hold a level to the water line outside the boat where the anti-foul stops "if you can still see it" and level the boat length ways and across the transom then spray water into the boat and see where it rests then try and direct all your flow points to that spot and put your pump tube "bung" there.
Are you going to raise your floor on timbers like this or are you going on top of the stringers.

dnme

I'm going to put in marine ply stringers side to side, glassed and epoxied in. These will add strength back top the floor stringers that I have to cut a v into. Waterline is long gone, no idea how to level the boat now. The whole thing is a bloody nightmare. I'm wasting so much time and money on this!

alexlyons

No you're not, its coming along really nicely.

If it was me, if I were putting in two bungs (on hull, one transom) and a pump, I'd do the transom one now as it's a set location. I'd do the hull one when its on the trailer, or wherever it is likely to be sitting when it's out of the water. This is easy to do as an "after thought". I'd leave the pump until you see how she sits in the water and can tell exactly where the lowest point is.

Somebody point out the problems with that please as I'm sure there are some...!!

dnme

Day 35

Viewers are advised that tonight's episode of A Restoration Tale contains strong language and scenes of a sexual nature!

My temper caved today, not that it's so unusual, but it really caved. Why? you ask......hmmm well let’s start at the beginning shall we ..(Harp music and wavy images)

Out I go nursing a cold from yesterday, feeling crap this morning. It's the usual dark grey and that constant breeze is hacking away at me as I struggle to hold things down at the table behind the boat. I'm already angry because I am about to cut into my stringer work in order to redo amateurish mistakes and afterthoughts. I'm about to bastardize my previous hard work, makes me sick!

Next door they are emptying out the large slatted house so contractors are in and out all day agitating and pumping slurry. My labrador loves slurry so she spends the morning in with the lads.

Everything I am trying to do is blowing away, tarps, cloth, tools, cups and camera. Jesus! I'm going to KILL!

I get into the boat, have one last look at my beloved snow white floor, as I run my hand lovingly along it, my finger meets the end of a woven strand, it's sticking up, hard and sharp having been epoxied that way 48 hours ago. It enters my finger about 1cm like a sharp needle. I scream in pain, my beloved floor in now white with red smears.

Honey (my labrador) waddles along over to the boat as I am about to break for lunch, she knows that lunch time means a payoff for both of us. What I don't realise as I spot her out of the corner of my eye is that she has been rolling around in the freshly agitated slurry, her undercarriage is dripping with the stuff. Over she comes and has a good old shake. She gets me, and I mean she gets me. I have slurry on my face, clothes, hair and hands. If I blink there's a drop that will go in my eye, if I lick my lips, there’s a splodge of it right there waiting to be tasted!!! I walk into the kitchen at a crazy angle and stance trying not to spill slurry, where's the cloth? Where’s the fcuking cloth?

I spend the day hacking at my previous good work like a knacker! Cutting and grinding until the original job now looks like it was done by an epileptic midget using a wheel barrow! I can't take much more of this.

As I start again to shovel in epoxy, I am sticking to everything and everything is sticking to me. The wind is blowing stuff into me where it sticks, when I grab it to pull it away from me, it sticks to my sticky gloves. My feet stick and tack with every step.

(The following was written on a “special” keyboard where the c and r keys were swapped as were the f and d keys).

Jesus ducking ducking duck duck duck DUCK! DUCK IT!! You ducking runt of a mother jayzes bollocking runt you (spit, grunt, break a screwdriver, fling a hammer across paddock)....DUCK DUCK DUCK RUNT RUNT RUNT..................breathe ……. and scene!

That happened! except it went on and on, and was louder and more profane that you can ever imagine. Even the mutt who has heard it all by now high tailed it out of the firing line. I just had enough. Now those that know me will testify that I am a moody bastard and can have a big ‘ol temper on me but today I was pushed! Jesus I was pushed like no man should ever be pushed.

Anyheeeww, here's what I did today.
Started out by cutting out drainage grooves in the stringers. I had no plan at this stage, just gouged out groves as deep as the router would allow. I was gonna make up some kind of a jig for the router but opted to do the job by hand and take it slow, several passes at different plunge depths etc. When I had all the grooves cut, I bevelled and feathered them out with my dremmel and a burring tool. I chamfered the cuts with a suitable router bit and then looked down depressed at my newly exposed stringer timbers. How am I gonna get those timber ends resealed?

I then had a go at cutting out a notch in the transom brace, to allow a space for installing a drainage plug. Once I started on that job, it became apparent that the brace timber was soaked, so I took it out completely. Turns out it fell short of the transom by about an inch. It was just a bit of wood sticking up, glassed over and not even in contact with the transom. Who in the name of god built / or worked on this boat??

After dinner I repaired a few holes in the engine well where previous owners had run various cables. I then turned my attention back to creating the drains in my stringers. What was I gonna do? no plan! I thought about leaving them as they were, glassing over the newly exposed timber and leaving them like that, but I could not, I just couldn't do that. I went into my shed and found some 10mm aluminium tube, cut it in half lengthways and then cut 60mm strips. I placed the half tube pieces cut side down in the grooves and then glassed and epoxy pasted back over like a kind of bridge.

Advantages....Stringers appearance restored; Stringer structural integrity more or less restored. Exposed timber ends resealed with decent amounts of epoxy paste.
Disadvantages....I now have small 5mm holes that will block up and need regular clearing. So I leave the boat tonight a sticky mess, I feel sick having butchered my beloved work.

By the way, tonight I am using photobucket to host the images to allow me more than the 5 attachment limit here on boards. let's see how it works out. If the images below fail to load or are slow for you, let me know.



1. Using a router to cut drainage channels into the stringers.



2. All 6 deck joints done



3. Burring out water channels with a dremmel.



4. Starting to cut a notch into the transom brace to allow a space for a drainage plug.



5.Cutting out the notch. I love this tool, no messing with this bad boy!



6. Notch cut. Where's me hammer?



7. Whack! mama that feels good!



8. You can see, the brace is soaked, and never even met the transom. I'll dry it out and reinstall it this time bonding it to the floor and the dam transom!!



9. Hacking out the last bit of original stringer.



10. Grinder thy name is Bosch!



11. A brainwave, use small aluminium tubing to form drainage holes allowing me to glass back over them.



12. The half tubes bedded waiting a covering of epoxy paste and glass fibre cloth.



13. Finished for the night. The transom stringer remains open, I will do that repair when refitting the transom brace.

alexlyons

Looks excellent! I love all this sort of work, I wish I was up helping you out!

Just curious as to why you felt you had to cover over the drainage holes and not just leave them as notches?

dnme

alexlyons wrote: »

Looks excellent! I love all this sort of work, I wish I was up helping you out!

Just curious as to why you felt you had to cover over the drainage holes and not just leave them as notches?

because of the advantages I pointed out in my post and also it was proving tricky to reseal the exposed timbers robustly while still maintaining the drainage channels.

oscarBravo

dnme wrote: »

Jesus ducking ducking duck duck duck DUCK! DUCK IT!! You ducking runt of a mother jayzes bollocking runt you (spit, grunt, break a screwdriver, fling a hammer across paddock)....DUCK DUCK DUCK RUNT RUNT RUNT

I can confirm, from first-hand experience, that this is a compulsory step in any boat construction or restoration project.

fergal.b

oscarBravo wrote: »

I can confirm, from first-hand experience, that this is a compulsory step in any boat construction or restoration project.

Oooo yes, after finishing my hull in mahogany planks and sanding them all down I started to encapsulate them in epoxy before I put the cloth on and with the heat under my perspex roof or what ever way they started to dry out 4 of the planks split with a loud cracking noise one after the other I thought it would never stop :eek:lets just say it's a good thing I had no visitors that day.:(

Boats are like women they push to the limit, but on a good day they are worth the effort.

dnme

fergal.b wrote: »

Oooo yes, after finishing my hull in mahogany planks and sanding them all down I started to encapsulate them in epoxy before I put the cloth on and with the heat under my perspex roof or what ever way they started to dry out 4 of the planks split with a loud cracking noise one after the other I thought it would never stop :eek:lets just say it's a good thing I had no visitors that day.:(

Boats are like women they push to the limit, but on a good day they are worth the effort.

Jeez you poor sod, not as if it's cheap stuff either. and yes you are right to say that boats are like women......they can be hired as well as owned. Let the backlash begin (ke ke ke ke ke)

Nimrod7

Hi dnme, Niamh here. Just spent the last 2 hours happily reading (and watching!) your progress, you're doing such an amazing job. It's going to be an incredible feeling the first time you take it out onto the water and watch the sunset, just keep that image in your mind while you're stabbing yourself and throwing things at poor Honey! I've changed my route home (shaving an hour off the driving time) so I don't pass by any more, but I think I'll have to call in soon to see all this work in real life. Keep the faith that it'll all be worth it, I can't wait to go fishing with you! N x

Slig

Had to be done. Good job, using aluminium tubing in-lieu of plastic was a great idea and as its all glassed in should be almost as strong as before.

I got stuck in Dublin this week but we are on holidays next week so I'll make a big effort to call round.

dnme

Slig wrote: »

Had to be done. Good job, using aluminium tubing in-lieu of plastic was a great idea and as its all glassed in should be almost as strong as before.

I got stuck in Dublin this week but we are on holidays next week so I'll make a big effort to call round.

Do, and bring the missus and Carla.

dnme

Day 36

I'm still reeling from yesterday. I still hate the bodge job I have done to my floor. So in approaching every job today, I am impatient, grumpy and weary of it all.

Quick update today as I did not achieve much. I started off by measuring and cutting a template for my new transom brace (is there a proper name for this thing?). I had to hop in and out of the boat several times, crawling in and down to the transom, offering up my piece of ply and making another slight adjustment. So eventually I had a piece of ply that fit like a glove. Then I rough cut 2 more pieces using piece #1 as a template. A quick sanding followed by epoxy laminating all three pieces together to form a piece of laminate about 40mm thick. It's not marine ply, it's WBP but I just want to use up all the off cuts and considering it'll be covered in epoxy and glass fibre, I am happy enough. I have the laminate clamped up overnight and will flush trim it with a router tomorrow.

In the meantime, I am sanding areas that I have been filling. Areas such as grp repairs in the hull and bulkhead. Takes a lot of patience to sand these areas to a finish worthy of paint. I am not blessed with patience today so time to change jobs.

I have been thinking and thinking about how in gods name I am going to glass in the side keel timbers. I literally lie awake in bed in the small hours wondering about this, my mind so busy that it prevents me from even getting tired, never mind sleep. I have decided to glass them away from the boat, let that assembly cure and then offer them up to the hull, bolt them in on a bed of epoxy paste and finally fillet them in and tab them with a piece or two of cloth.

So in my mind I pictured a jig that holds the keel timber and allows me to drape cloth over it. I envisage attaching crocodile clips to elastic bands and using these to grip and pull the cloth to a state of slight tension on the timber. So tonight I made up such a jig and looking at it - I think it might work. I'll epoxy up a patch of 4-5 pieces of biaxial (ordered today from the UK). Then I'll drape that over my keel and pull the patch tight using elastic and clips as described above. Once dry, I'll trim the cured grp flush to the keel edge, then I'll offer it up to the boat and bed / bolt / fillet and tab.

What do you think of the above? is it a plan?



1. Laminating pieces of ply together to make a new transom brace.



2. A jig to hold the keel timbers while glassing up.



3. My new bolts dont fit the original bore, so I opted to trim the bolt heads as trying to widen the bore would have been messy. Here I clamped the angle grinder to the desk with the switch on, then operated it by the plug. This allowed me to present the bolt to the tool and rotate it until it fit the bore. Real safe stuff:eek:



4. The keel sits nicely, elastics underneath with croc clips attached might be used to put tension on the glass fibre cloth as it cures.

fergal.b

(is there a proper name for this thing?) It's called a knee.
If you leave the cloth sitting on the keel overnight it should form to the shape better under its own weight, or you could fix the keel to the boat give it a coat of epoxy and when it gets tacky add the cloth and it should stay. to get a clean cut around the keel put some masking tape around it on the hull and wet out the cloth to half way on the tape then while it's still green cut with a blade along the wet edge of the tape and peal away.
PS. can you pm me your name and address.

fergal.b

yes you are right to say that boats are like women......they can be hired as well as owned. Let the backlash begin (ke ke ke ke ke)[/QUOTE]

I take it your single by the amount of time you get to spend on your boat for me it's more like.:D

dnme

Yeah the single life for me these days. My days of inflicting myself onto the women in my life are over with enough scars and baggage to cause delays at Heathrow. The older and number I get, the more I appreciate the quiet solitude and the freedom.

Labradors are the way to go. They don't want to cuddle, you don't have to listen to them and more importantly you don't have to prove that you listened to them at some stage in the past. They don't infest your house with cushions and scented candles. They leave you alone for not only the sunday grandprix, but also the saturday qualifying and the red button free practice. They don't try and change you....and.....you don't have to keep your stomach in when in their company.

I rest my case:D

dnme

Hey you know, it occurs to me that before I restore the transom brace (from here on known as the knee), I better install the drain plug assembly first.

Can anyone point me in the direction of a drain plug system online? I have seen em on ebay but they look a bit cheap / plasticy and flimsy. Should I get one that screws from inside or outside?

alexlyons

dnme wrote: »

Should I get one that screws from inside or outside?

From my experience, if there is a pump on board and the bung is in a bit of an awkward location, which yours looks like it could be, there is no need for it to be on the inside.

Plastic bungs are popular as they don't rust, but as you mention if you don't get the right one they can be cheap and flimsy.
Metal ones are good but need to be cared for a bit more. I find threading tape works well on them.
Don't forget to regularly check the O-ring!

dnme

alexlyons wrote: »

From my experience, if there is a pump on board and the bung is in a bit of an awkward location, which yours looks like it could be, there is no need for it to be on the inside.

Plastic bungs are popular as they don't rust, but as you mention if you don't get the right one they can be cheap and flimsy.
Metal ones are good but need to be cared for a bit more. I find threading tape works well on them.
Don't forget to regularly check the O-ring!

Could you point me towards one ?

fergal.b

You can get them here, they also have plastic and stainless steel but I think the brass one will suit your boat and it will last a lifetime.
http://www.marineparts.ie/plumbing/fittings/drain-fittings/goldenship-drain-plug-with-socket.html

alexlyons

dnme wrote: »

Could you point me towards one ?

Sorry meant to say I'd link to one in the morning, but damn you fergal you beat me to it! Was the exact one I was going to link to as well!

fergal.b

Good boaty minds think alike.:D

fergal.b

dnme wrote: »

I'm going to put in marine ply stringers side to side, glassed and epoxied in. These will add strength back top the floor stringers that I have to cut a v into. Waterline is long gone, no idea how to level the boat now. The whole thing is a bloody nightmare. I'm wasting so much time and money on this!

Just a note on the stringers, plywood is not the best at holding screws if you are going into the laminations at the edge the screws will cause it to split leaving voids and will work there way loose with the movement of the floor so it might be an idea to add some fixing blocks along the side or epoxy on a strip of wood along the top edge of the ply for fixing into.