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A restoration tale (with pics)
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Boat restoration recipes #1
So you are covered in dust, grinding fibreglass and sanding wood. It's 30 degrees c and you are dehydrating fast. Here's what you do......(magically float back to the day before)
Go down to Lidl, and pick up this lot (the Lime is optional). Fridge em up for a few hours nice and chilled.
Cut a slice or 2 of lemon, then cut it in half. Squeeze the bollocking be-jesus out of it into a tall glass. Throw the leftover into the glass also. Half - 2/3 fill the glass with Plein Sud, then top up with the sparkling water.
Voila!
Trust me, just do it! Best tipple I've ever had, I live on the stuff. Further restoration recipes to follow....:cool:0 -
Update
Jesus H Christ the weather, the weather!!!!
I had to go out earlier and re-tie the tarp, It's blowing away and I think it's leaking now. It's more or less a storm outside. Yesterday was just rain all day and night, today we add high winds to the continuing driving rain.
I feel like a prisoner indoors. Mad to get out and do a bit of work but there is no way. Even the dog wouldn't go out this morning. When I opened the back door and she felt that rain, she just looked up at me, wagged her tail and backed right out of there.
Anyhow, the new laptop has arrived so I can keep in touch with the thread on boards, not to mention keep on dwonloading TB's of por.......I've said too much!
1. New laptop arrives. You can see the old one with tape holding it and the power cable in place. It is also missing a battery, fasteners and some keys. I've had it on life support for years.
2. You probably can't tell from this, but its lashing rain. I am struggling to keep the tarp from blowing away. It also seems to be leaking.
3. Goddam jet stream! I'm told it's position promises more summers like this.
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Day 29
This update is all about glassing in stringers.
I struggled ahead with various gaps in the hellish weather to try and get some work done. After lunch I opened back the tarp to see a somewhat flooded floor again. So I mopped and toweled as best I could and for luck I have had a dry and windy day that has done some good drying.
I want to get the stringers sorted so I have taken the decision to try one short one, post my methods on here and see if I am doing things right. I chose the starboard galley stringer, it's dry, raised and short so it's a good place to start.
I decided to make a patch using I think 6 pieces of glass fibre varying in widths from 70mm to 120mm. The cloth was measured to overshoot the length by about 50mm each end also. I used 4 cuts of biaxial and 2 of 280g woven roving. I laided them out on the bench on a piece of polythene fertilser bag and wetted them out. I have to say that the biaxial sure is thirsty. The advantage of making this patch on the bench is that I am able to work it properly there and squeegee out surplus epoxy etc.
In the meantime, I had sanded down my stringer and surrounds with 40grit and cleaned it really well with acetone. Then I applied a coat of epoxy and let that set a little for about 20 minutes while I made the patch.
Once the patch was ready, I was able to carry it on the polythene back into the boat and rest it over the stringer. Because it was pre-wetted, it sat down pretty well and I was able to stub it in and work it down. I then decided to place a nice wide covering piece of fibre over the entire patch to tidy it up. I went with woven roving 280g and boy was I sorry. I wet it through and it just would not sit down. I eventually threw it out and went with a cut of biaxial. The difference is amazing. The biaxial immediately sits down and I was able to wet it through and stub it into place with ease. Biaxial is a different ballgame and if you have never used it for akward setup's, I'd highly recommend you give it a try.
So that's how I went about the first stringer. Now tell me, am I doing this ok? Is there a better way? Let me know what you think.
1. Making a patch. I cut several pieces of glass fibre. In this case 4 pieces of biaxial and 2 pieces of woven roving for the inside. Making the patch on the bench allows you to work it thoroughly and squeegee out all surplus epoxy.
2. The stringer and surrounding starboard floor coated with epoxy and allowed to sit for about 20 minutes - awaiting the patch.
3. The patch placed over the stringer and the polythene bag peeled away. Then I worked it in with a stubby brush and a block of wood.
4. One final layer of biaxial cloth to cover over everything and tidy up the finish. The biaxial cloth works so much better than even light woven roving in these tight angle layup situations.
5. The final layer of biaxial glass fibre wetted through and worked down onto the patch.
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Join Date:Posts: 6048
You can do it the same way as your stringers , cut your cloth width ways that should give you 1m strips and start at the transom so the overlaps will run down the boat and not trap water. For bigger jobs I buy a pack of disposable clear plastic party cups a bag of plastic knives for mixing and some foil trays, mix about 1/4 of a cup and pour it into the tray " The more surfaces area epoxy has the longer it will take to go off " this should give you a bit of time to paint it on with a disposable brush, as soon as you feel it start to gel dump it and mix a new batch.
Your doing great keep up the good work, it's giving good weather next week so back down to lidl for some more of your tipple.
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You can do it the same way as your stringers , cut your cloth width ways that should give you 1m strips and start at the transom so the overlaps will run down the boat and not trap water. For bigger jobs I buy a pack of disposable clear plastic party cups a bag of plastic knives for mixing and some foil trays, mix about 1/4 of a cup and pour it into the tray " The more surfaces area epoxy has the longer it will take to go off " this should give you a bit of time to paint it on with a disposable brush, as soon as you feel it start to gel dump it and mix a new batch.
Your doing great keep up the good work, it's giving good weather next week so back down to lidl for some more of your tipple.
Why transom to bow? I imaging the back of the boat always being lower than the front especially under power ??
I'm thinking of doing it in 2 lengths, cabin and deck. I bought some csm that is powder coated for epoxy so it's a dedicated piece of cloth for the job. I'll see how it goes.
I drilled into transon btw. Have a look at this thread for the results.
http://www.normanboats.co.uk/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=6319 What do you think?
Yeah I'm well stocked up on the lidl kit:cool:, I was down there yesterday and picked up two of their tarpaulins @ €4.99 each, awesome. makes lying on wet ground under boat so much easier.0 -
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oscarBravo wrote: »If you start at the transom and work forward, the overlaps face aft. Visualise it for a sec.
Edit:
Oh yeah:rolleyes:
Apologies, it's all this bloody boating language. Bow, transom, stern, aft....Reminds me of that great line from Jaws....."Don't gimmie that sh1t, just point!":D
I've put in the cabin stringer just now. It was a job that was constantly on the brink of disaster. First of all, that csm is nasty stuff. It really wants to fall apart in your hands eh. I cut up strips 185cm long. 2 strips of csm amd 2 biaxial. Both cloths took serious amounts of resin. I had no epoxy brushes so used a paint brush that had been sitting in spirits. That left blue pigment all over the resin which I hope will not contaminate it.
Then as my resin levels diminished, my resin pumps started to take in air, so I resorted to pouring resin and hardner and measuring by eye. Rough as hell. Not sure if it was geling up or if my mixing stick was covered in csm strands. Then I noticed the patch would not quite sit down. I added a biaxial tab to cover the whole job and spent about an hour stubbing it to a sort of compromise layup. The whole job felt awful.
How are these dam epoxy pumps meant to work when you get near the bottom of the container?
Serious learning curve. I'll avoid that csm like the plague. Nasty stuff that wastes epoxy and gets everywhere. Back to the clean lines of woven for me.
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Day 31
A quick note to all those who reply to this thread. Thank you so much. You've no idea how much your replies help. I check this thread all the time to see who has replied, it's great to get feedback and the replies make me feel as though I am not alone. I'm not a great fan of the Thanks button but please know that I am very thankful and please keep the replies / feedback / advice etc coming. It's why this thread exists!
I'm at a low point this evening. I spent the day glassing in stringers. Bloody nightmare of a job for me. My working conditions suck. All week there has been this cutting strong wind coming up off the lake. When I'm cutting cloth or trying to glass it down, it blows all over the place. I'm covered in dam epoxy as are most of my belongings. Trying to walk around gingerly on the deck floor and everywhere getting tacky and dirty after I just grinded it again. Wiping down surfaces and the cloth sticks to you. Then trying to open the acetone bottle and that sticks to you. Epoxy on the inside of my gloves. Last night I got a pile of it on my hair. I'm sick of it, so so sick of it. Another problem I have constantly is back pain. If I have to work on the floor at all, it kills me.
After a very frustrating morning with stringers, I decided to do the deck by just laying down cloth and wetting it through piece by piece. These patches were just driving me crazy. I have all but one stringer left to do. I think I'm gonna have to take it up and re-seat it because I bedded it down with sikaflex (don't ask why) and thats a silicone adhesive that's kinda rubbery, so I don't know if I can glass over it.
Last night I started filling the hull underside using Hempel epoxy filler. The results are looking good. I hope the Hempel is up to the job. There's already a massive difference between the hull now and a few weeks back. I have also sanded down and routed out the rotten bits of the side keels so I'll be ready to have a go at them any day now. I'm dreading this job if the stringers are anything to go by. These are akin to giant stringers and I will be working upside down.
Today I ran out of my first batch of epoxy purchased from Fyne Boats in the UK. I then opened up the new stuff - SP106. Have to say it's easier to use. The older batch was literally like treacle, whereas the SP106 is a little less viscous and easier to work with. That made wetting out that biaxial a little easier but sweet jesus it takes a lot of work. I ended up just drowning the f'ing stuff trying to just get through this awful job. One of the stringers now has old epoxy and new, I hope it's ok to mix it.
Everything I own is getting destroyed. My camera, phone, many clothes etc. I'm sick of having to climb in and out the back of that boat. Sick of muddy damp ground. Sick of being tacky and dirty. Sick of the cold and that dam relentless wind. Sick of the expense and the miserable service I am receiving from one or two vendors. Just pissed off tonight.
1. Mixing Hempel epoxy filler. Its a 1:1 ratio filler to hardner, I measure it by eye. Its very thick, Takes muscle just to mix it.
2. Hull starboard where the massice hole was. This is after grinding the repair back ready for filling. This patch always reminds me of the map of Ireland:p
3. After spreading the filler.
3a. A before and after with images #2 and #3 above. This is how the hull looked a few weeks ago.
4. God bless LIDL. They have these tarpaulins at the moment. I think they are 3x2m. €4.99 would you believe, I bought two yesterday. Great for lying on the ground and keeping the back dry.
5. Stringers glassed in, a bitch of a job and still one to do. AHHHFGGGGGHHHHHH
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Join Date:Posts: 6048
It wont be long till your pottering across the lake relaxing your back and thinking all that mess and backache was worth it and you will appreciate the work you put in even more when you look down at your stringers and say to yourself "I made you"
There will always be bad days, I remember when I had just finished my final coat of epoxy on the hull and it was perfect after weeks of sanding, the next morning I got up to find a cat had walked all over it and curled up in a ball and gone to sleep on it leaving a nice fluffy carpet in the middle of my hull :eek:
I just hope it went through excruciating getting off it because if I got my hands on it that morning I would have some extra cat gut for fishing.:D
All is forgiven no and the cat still comes by the garden but will not go near the boat so I guess he's learnt his lesson.
Your on the home stretch now and will be moving into some clean constructive work soon where you will see your efforts at the end of each day slowly build up into your prefect boat and when she is finished she will pay you back many years for the one or two that you put in.0 -
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Join Date:Posts: 6048
1. I don't know much about sikaflex but I'd say once you glass it in it will never move.
2. I would put the seats on the floor that way you will have more fixing points.
3. How about timber laths if you can't get hardwood might get away with pine and coat in epoxy and then varnish, easy to replace and to remove if you have to.
4. You could get away with a bilge pump, a bung is just one more thing to forget to put in at the ramp.:eek:
5. Meaning of life is 42 and she won't let me answer the last one 0 -
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Join Date:Posts: 6048
Well my plan is to add even more stringers, this time 18mm ply on its side profiled to the hull and giving me a level surface to place the new plywood floor on.
But my question here is
Will I seal in a complete floor, as in screw it down, and epoxy all around the edges etc or will I leave it removable or at least openable (hinged door or something)?
If I opt for an openable floor, that might allow rain water in under it etc, but if I seal it down I am left guessing if water is getting in.
What do you think?
You could seal it up but you will need to be able to get at the bilge pump maybe one of the spaces at your transom that way you will be able to see if there is any water under your floor also put some holes in the floor at the transom so any water will go down to the pump and you wont end up with wet feet. When putting the floor in drill and counter sink all your screw holes then encapsulate and when it sets fix with ss screws that way you can remove it if you have to " If you cover stainless steal with epoxy it will rust as it needs to breath fresh air to stay stainless"
Just a thought on your stringers could you cut groves in them where they meet the center one to let water run by. As you can see in my builds all the stringers have little groves in them so all water will end up at the bilge pump.
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Day 32
What a day, for the afternoon it was glorious but from tea time on it was very dull and breezy. Still, any weather that lets me work on that boat is good weather. I did two jobs today. (a) I started glassing in the hull floor, got the cabin completed and (b) I finished off the stringers on deck.
In that basking heat of the afternoon, I was in the cabin, on the floor grinding and sanding the old floor getting it ready for a layer of glass. I've never known sweat like it in my life. Picture a tap that has developed a leak 10 years ago, it drips water at the rate of a drop every half second. That's what was coming off my forehead. I tried everything but eventually just had to take off the goggles. All my rags have salt lines in them from wiping my forehead. Dust and sweat, and tears and blood and toil and rain and muck, oh yeah! muck and stones and rocks and work and poorhouses and sweat and blood - but we were happy!
I'm delighted with the cabin floor. After grinding and sanding (40 grit), I swept up, then vacuumed and then wiped vigorously with acetone. I then cut out my 600g woven roving pieces. I layed down a generous coat of epoxy and then offered up the glass fibre cloth. I cut it along the stringers and then laid a biaxial cap over that for esteathics and added strength. Finally no more old creaky floor, no more spider cracks, stress cracks etc. I now have a completely new cabin floor. The deck will follow.
After dinner tonight, I tackled the remaining stringer and the old existing aft stringer that my new keel stringer meets. Again I grinded the areas, swept, vacuumed and wiped with acetone. Next a coat of epoxy. Then out to the bench to make up patches consisting of 1 piece of 280g woven roving and 3 pieces of biaxial, each piece gradually getting bigger by about a cm all round. I laid out a piece of fertiliser bag to work on, put down the first piece, wetted that out, followed by the second piece and so on. After the final piece (woven roving), I squeegee'd the patch to flatten it and squeeze out any air or excess epoxy. I then offered up each piece to the tacky stringer and surround and dabbed it down as best I could. At junctions where one stringer meets another, I treat it a bit like wallpaper, I cut in to each corner at an angle, dab the wound with lots of epoxy and then cover with a strip or two of biaxial. Works well.
Need to get to LIDL for more Plein Sud and sparkling water urgently, I went through litres of the stuff today, infact I'm sitting here typing this and still gupling it down. Thirsty work this typing......eh I mean restoration! ke ke ke ke
1. Ordered the wrong pumps with the epoxy kit, so this is how I'm measuring now. SP106 is a 5:1 epoxy/hardner ratio, so I can place a cup on my digital scales, then set it to zero, then pour in 200g epoxy, and top up to 240g with hardner. Of course here, I forget to set to zero after placing the cup, so my total was 260g as the cup is 20g.
BTW, ignore the price tag on the scales, I got it for a fiver in King Moffatt, Carrick on Shannon. It was missing a battery holder and packaging. Great little device.
2. Bristles on brushes only make then too soft and swishy and soak up a lot of valuable epoxy. So why not chop a cm off them. Also if you want to speed up your work, tape two brushes together with a splint, works great.
3. New cabin floor, the 600gsm cloth is totally transparent here as it's wet, the cloth is cut to each stringer, I then place a strip of biaxial cloth over the stringer to hide the joins and add even more strength.
4. Cutting the strips of glass fibre ready for wetting up stringer patches. 1 piece of 280gsm woven roving then three successively bigger pieces of biaxial cloth. The patch is offered up to the stringer woven roving side down.
5. Taken sideways from port side.
Starboard stringer (pointing upwards in centre of image) and the one to the extreme right (aft) are the ones I completed this evening.
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