Galway GAA discussion thread

MfMan

InchicoreDude wrote: »

I think you are probably over-estimating the current Galway players. Then again, they are good enough to not get beaten by so much.

Personally, I think Mulholland's biggest flaw is that he has 'favourites' and doesnt really pick on current form. His favourites include Duane, Flynn, Hehir. He gives them chance after chance and it takes a lot for them to be dropped. On the other hand, it seems very easy for him to drop Armstrong or Martin.

Good interview here with Hanley.

http://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/football/2013/0521/451721-hanley-admits-to-hurt-in-galway/

He did drop Hehir (thankfully) though; would it that he would drop Armstrong also. Flynn's form in the U-21 campaign meant that he really had to start. What Flynn really needs is a transfer to a proper football club (no offence, Athenry) where he could learn his trade.

RobbieRuns

The strange thing for me was that everyone was talking about Army and Meehan as the potent treats in the full forward line, the star men so to speak. Cummins showed them up for me. It was his first championship start for Galway, he has been used as sub lots of times, but it was his first start.

I mentioned previously about the time Cummins broke through at the start of the second half on goal, he needed support and I watched Meehan, who was with him when they won the ball off Mayo, as Cummins took off (granted he is quick) but Meehan could not keep up with him, he physically could not get there. A sure fire goal went begging, Cummins looked up for support and was coming in at an angle, a hand pass across the goalkeeper and it was a walk in goal (like Mayo did in the first half). It just drove me mad.

Where were the other forwards? It would take a brave man to say anything bad about Meehan as he is a great player, but if he is not training fully and does not have the correct level of fitness due to his long term injury, then that is not good. Armstrong spent most of the time out the field wandering around, I have cut him slack before but thought that he looked way off the pace, way off.

Our problems were much greater than this especially in the backs and midfield, but that incident wound me right up, we gifted them goals and then with the one clear cut chance that we had, when we really need a goal, the crucial forwards could not keep up !

InchicoreDude

RobbieRuns wrote: »

The strange thing for me was that everyone was talking about Army and Meehan as the potent treats in the full forward line, the star men so to speak. Cummins showed them up for me. It was his first championship start for Galway, he has been used as sub lots of times, but it was his first start.

I mentioned previously about the time Cummins broke through at the start of the second half on goal, he needed support and I watched Meehan, who was with him when they won the ball off Mayo, as Cummins took off (granted he is quick) but Meehan could not keep up with him, he physically could not get there. A sure fire goal went begging, Cummins looked up for support and was coming in at an angle, a hand pass across the goalkeeper and it was a walk in goal (like Mayo did in the first half). It just drove me mad.

Where were the other forwards? It would take a brave man to say anything bad about Meehan as he is a great player, but if he is not training fully and does not have the correct level of fitness due to his long term injury, then that is not good. Armstrong spent most of the time out the field wandering around, I have cut him slack before but thought that he looked way off the pace, way off.

Our problems were much greater than this especially in the backs and midfield, but that incident wound me right up, we gifted them goals and then with the one clear cut chance that we had, when we really need a goal, the crucial forwards could not keep up !

Cummins was one of the few players to perform against Antrim last year too after he came on.

Diabhal Beag

InchicoreDude wrote: »

His favourites include Duane, Flynn, Hehir. He gives them chance after chance and it takes a lot for them to be dropped. On the other hand, it seems very easy for him to drop Armstrong or Martin.

Duane is grand. Agree on Flynn though. He doesn't have any presence about him. Army should have stayed on the last day alright. It'd be unfair for me to judge Martin so far.

aidan24326

InchicoreDude wrote: »

Personally, I think Mulholland's biggest flaw is that he has 'favourites' and doesnt really pick on current form. His favourites include Duane, Flynn, Hehir. He gives them chance after chance and it takes a lot for them to be dropped. On the other hand, it seems very easy for him to drop Armstrong or Martin.

Hehir has been dropped though, and Duane in fairness is no better or worse than what's around him. The defence as a unit were a disorganised shambles on Sunday.

As for Flynn, he's no half forward anyway that's for sure, and didn't exactly help out the midfield much either. But surely you either play him midfield or not at all. He doesn't offer much as a forward.

I know there's no use in changing the manager again just for the sake of it but AM has had a while at the job now and we haven't progressed an inch. If anything it's worse this team are getting.

We may not have the players to be challenging for an All-Ireland but you don't need a team of Colm Coopers and Karl Laceys to at least be solid, competitive and hard to beat. You need a well-organised setup, a clear gameplan that lads understand and buy into, a solid defensive setup etc All of that was sorely missing on Sunday.

RightHalfBack

I think Duane would have been ok if he had Hanley beside him.. although seeing Alan Dillon knock him on his ass before throw him and Duane gets up and doesnt even throw a shoulder back at Dillon... I said to my buddy that Duane has conceeded 'his patch' to Dillon already...

With Hanley out we desperately needed an experienced man in the other corner but instead another debutant was picked... crazy stuff (in hindsight)

What about O'Donnell? Why was he not starting? he is no superstar but a better choice at Centre back than Kelly im sure...

Flynn will be a great player but was bullied by Mayo so he couldnt get a run at any kickout and didnt have the physical strenght to barge through the blockers (Donal Vaughan mainly)

Was delighted Cummins started and played so well... he is our main threat now.. and showed more composure than he had done previously.

Is Meehan fit enough for full games? A two man full forward line of Conroy and Cummins might be worth a try, Id like to see Martin get a proper chance at Centre Forward...

P.S Bring back Bane!!!

RobbieRuns

InchicoreDude wrote: »

Cummins was one of the few players to perform against Antrim last year too after he came on.

point was more that the other forwards were not keeping up rather than how good Cummins was........... but he was one of the few who stood up and did not back down. He needs to push on now.

InchicoreDude

RightHalfBack wrote: »

I think Duane would have been ok if he had Hanley beside him.. although seeing Alan Dillon knock him on his ass before throw him and Duane gets up and doesnt even throw a shoulder back at Dillon... I said to my buddy that Duane has conceeded 'his patch' to Dillon already...

With Hanley out we desperately needed an experienced man in the other corner but instead another debutant was picked... crazy stuff (in hindsight)

What about O'Donnell? Why was he not starting? he is no superstar but a better choice at Centre back than Kelly im sure...

Flynn will be a great player but was bullied by Mayo so he couldnt get a run at any kickout and didnt have the physical strenght to barge through the blockers (Donal Vaughan mainly)

Was delighted Cummins started and played so well... he is our main threat now.. and showed more composure than he had done previously.

Is Meehan fit enough for full games? A two man full forward line of Conroy and Cummins might be worth a try, Id like to see Martin get a proper chance at Centre Forward...

P.S Bring back Bane!!!

I saw Martin play at number 11 in the FBD and thought he should have been given a run of games there. But Mulholland dropped him shortly after the game I saw and he has been in and out of team since (mostly in full forward line). I think he should be put at 11 and Conroy at 14. Conroys best games for Galway have been at 14. Actually I remember in last years league, in the 2nd half against Monaghan I think, Cummins & Conroy played as a 2 man full forward line and linked up really well with each other so it could be something looking into again.

No idea who I would put at 10 or 12 though!

So I agree with you on that.

But I dont agree with you on Duane. He should not have to rely on having Hanley near him. This is Duane's 2nd year (or 3rd?) in the senior panel. He has been regularly selected at number 6 too so there is no excuse for him letting Dillion treat him like a child. At this stage, he should be tough enough to deal with those type of situations. People used to always complain about Damien Burke at corner back but I just cant imagine him letting his marker getting away with that.

MfMan

RightHalfBack wrote: »

I think Duane would have been ok if he had Hanley beside him.. although seeing Alan Dillon knock him on his ass before throw him and Duane gets up and doesnt even throw a shoulder back at Dillon... I said to my buddy that Duane has conceeded 'his patch' to Dillon already...

With Hanley out we desperately needed an experienced man in the other corner but instead another debutant was picked... crazy stuff (in hindsight)

What about O'Donnell? Why was he not starting? he is no superstar but a better choice at Centre back than Kelly im sure...

Flynn will be a great player but was bullied by Mayo so he couldnt get a run at any kickout and didnt have the physical strenght to barge through the blockers (Donal Vaughan mainly)

Was delighted Cummins started and played so well... he is our main threat now.. and showed more composure than he had done previously.

Is Meehan fit enough for full games? A two man full forward line of Conroy and Cummins might be worth a try, Id like to see Martin get a proper chance at Centre Forward...

P.S Bring back Bane!!!

No and no!

InchicoreDude

MfMan wrote: »

No and no!

Who would you play at centre forward?

Lookitnow

I think there is too much focus on the personnel being selected and not enough on how we would like the team to play and perform. Not saying its completely irrelevant but the problem with Galway football at the moment is how we are trying to play.

Its too naive to simply play 15 nice footballers in an orthodox old fashioned 15 v 15 lineup. I'd be inclined to anchor at least one extra player between the half back line and the full back line, as this is our biggest weakness. As it is at the moment we have no obvious players to play at 10 and 12. We're much better off redeploying one of these in an attempt to shore up the defence. We can then focus on having a 2/3 man full forward line who we can try to isolate by packing the defence and counter attacking at pace. The space that could potentially be opened up would allow either halfbacks to go on solo runs up the pitch or play the ball into our FF line at speed.

We need to get the defence right first and work from there. This would be my plan for the qualifier(s). We can then take stock after we get knocked out and put plans in place over the winter to try and get the players better conditioned for next year. I know if we play more defensively it may be dour to begin with but surely if we look at the templates that Dublin, Tyrone, Donegal and even Mayo used it will eventually bear fruit and we can then focus on fine tuning our attack.

I hope at this stage that Mullholland and the management team have an epiphany in the coming weeks as its getting harder and harder to justify their management. I think nobody wants them to fail though. From my perspective I think its still salvageable if we win a couple of qualifiers and begin to see the start of a different approach to the game.

Hulk Hands

MfMan wrote: »

He did drop Hehir (thankfully) though; would it that he would drop Armstrong also. Flynn's form in the U-21 campaign meant that he really had to start. What Flynn really needs is a transfer to a proper football club (no offence, Athenry) where he could learn his trade.

One of the most sucessfull underage clubs in Galway and a side that was one game away from senior football last year? Athenry are the coming force in Galway football circles, and will probably be contending for the next decade. There's no better place Flynn could play.

In response to others, he has no presence as he's yet to fill out in the way most county midfielders have. Once he does we'll have a top notch midfielder. I can understand some saying he's not ready yet. Him and O'Currain are still the brightest young talents we have however

Hulk Hands

RobbieRuns wrote: »

I mentioned previously about the time Cummins broke through at the start of the second half on goal, he needed support and I watched Meehan, who was with him when they won the ball off Mayo, as Cummins took off (granted he is quick) but Meehan could not keep up with him, he physically could not get there. A sure fire goal went begging, Cummins looked up for support and was coming in at an angle, a hand pass across the goalkeeper and it was a walk in goal (like Mayo did in the first half). It just drove me mad.

Armstrong was steaming through the middle. If Cummins had looked up it couldve been a walk in goal. Usain Bolt couldn't have caught up with Cummins from a standing start after playing the pass, so don't know why your slating Meehan for that.

RobbieRuns wrote: »

Where were the other forwards? It would take a brave man to say anything bad about Meehan as he is a great player, but if he is not training fully and does not have the correct level of fitness due to his long term injury, then that is not good.

Are you suggesting we drop him? Cummins was very good, but along with him Meehan was easily our best forward. 2 points came directly from his tackling, he won 2 scoreable frees, he set up O'Currain for a goal chance with a delightful pass and he kicked some great placed balls. His performance was one of the only small positives

MfMan

InchicoreDude wrote: »

Who would you play at centre forward?

Conroy maybe. Who knows, maybe even Gary O Donnell, he's being put everywhere else. Martin would be blown out of it at CHF, they'd steam through him like he wasn't there.

MfMan

Hulk Hands wrote: »

One of the most sucessfull underage clubs in Galway and a side that was one game away from senior football last year? Athenry are the coming force in Galway football circles, and will probably be contending for the next decade. There's no better place Flynn could play.

In response to others, he has no presence as he's yet to fill out in the way most county midfielders have. Once he does we'll have a top notch midfielder. I can understand some saying he's not ready yet. Him and O'Currain are still the brightest young talents we have however

No. Better he play at a traditional club, e.g. Corofin or Mountbellew. Places where football is in the DNA. Athenry ultimately will always be pulling towards hurling.

Lookitnow

MfMan wrote: »

No. Better he play at a traditional club, e.g. Corofin or Mountbellew. Places where football is in the DNA. Athenry ultimately will always be pulling towards hurling.

Sure some of the best players in the country play with Junior and Intermediate sides. Besides this, it rips the heart out of what the GAA is meant to stand for.

One player I can think of who did this is Gary O'Donnell. Did it make a big difference to him I wonder.

Speaking of the club championship. It badly needs some kind of rearranging. Too many poor senior teams and too weak an intermediate division.

FlashD

I think it's pointless trying to single out who should be in and out and where they should be playing. The problems are bigger than all that.

Qualifiers are a bust at this stage, from what the team have shown in the league and last Sunday, what can be honestly done in 6 weeks that will make a difference. They are too far off the pace.

Managment should be looking at the bigger picture now, preparing to work for league promotion to division 1 next year. Good hard games against quality teams in division 1 in 2015 will be the making of this team. Until that happens despite the quality and potential, this Galway team will be going no where.

Syferus

RobbieRuns wrote: »

point was more that the other forwards were not keeping up rather than how good Cummins was........... but he was one of the few who stood up and did not back down. He needs to push on now.

Meehan did the most horse work of the lot, he was hardly shown up. Cummins showed well, though, and got Galway's best scores from play. Someone said he looked light but I thought he looked like a strong 'little' fella.

MfMan

Lookitnow wrote: »

Sure some of the best players in the country play with Junior and Intermediate sides. Besides this, it rips the heart out of what the GAA is meant to stand for.

One player I can think of who did this is Gary O'Donnell. Did it make a big difference to him I wonder.

Speaking of the club championship. It badly needs some kind of rearranging. Too many poor senior teams and too weak an intermediate division.

Yes, but they're with clubs whose first game is football. Where the game at the weekend is (or should be) something to look forward to, where players' lives revolve around the club's activities. etc. I'm sure playing for Tuam has definitely improved O'Donnell, rather than had he stayed with St. Colmans. (As indeed has playing for Castle' benefited Kevin Brady. See also Alan Kerins and David Tierney). Nothing against Athenry or any club from a hurling area hosting football players, it's just that I think e.g. O'Donnell made the right choice.

Agree with you re: the club structure. In fairness the leagues are very competitive but copying the hurling structure with it's grouped championship may be more conducive to improving the standard domestically.

fearruanua

Lookitnow wrote: »

Speaking of the club championship. It badly needs some kind of rearranging. Too many poor senior teams and too weak an intermediate division.

totally agree with the above point. there are too many teams in the Galway Senior Championship. Bring the number of teams down to 16.
4 groups of four. Top two from each group into quarter finals. bottom four teams from each group play off. loser relegated. I think it would make for a far more competitive championship. The standard of intermediate football would also improve as a result.

Robson99

I think the biggest problem with Galway football is that they think that they have keep playing football the old traditional way and get caught up in this hype. Since approx 2001 gaelic has changed big time and is as Pat Spillane said puke football. Its terrible to watch but its the only way that Galway are going to start winning games again. Also the gulf in class between the 2001 team and the curtrent team is frightening. There would be at most 3 of the current team that would make that panel

InchicoreDude

Robson99 wrote: »

I think the biggest problem with Galway football is that they think that they have keep playing football the old traditional way and get caught up in this hype. Since approx 2001 gaelic has changed big time and is as Pat Spillane said puke football. Its terrible to watch but its the only way that Galway are going to start winning games again. Also the gulf in class between the 2001 team and the curtrent team is frightening. There would be at most 3 of the current team that would make that panel

I dont think the style of play has much to do with it to be honest. Good players will always adapt their style accordingly. And Gaelic football hasnt changed as much as some people think (like Brolly for example). For me, Ciaran Murphy gets it bang on here:

People have this image of Galway fans throwing their head back snootily at the modern game and all of its cynicism and defensiveness. That is utter crap – Galway can still play attacking, fluent football, and be relevant in the game as we now know it. Look at the scoring rate in Division 1 this year – you’ll have to be capable of putting up big scores to win the All-Ireland this September.
Deliberate tactical snobbery is not the problem with Galway. The problem is a lack of mean bastards in the team. Cocky, arrogant, ignorant players that are a mild disgrace to their families with their carry-on. Galway are in dire need of some of them right now. And getting two players sent off isn’t what I’m talking about here – that’s just frustration. I’m talking about sustained, controlled aggression.

http://www.thescore.ie/galway-mayo-917346-May2013/

I agree with you on the gulf in class between todays panel & 2001 though.

Tomas Mannion was number 6 in 2001. Compare him with Keith Kelly or Johnny Duane. Mannion is vastly superior.

Paul Clancy was number 10. Compare him with Conor Doherty. Clancy is vastly superior.

You could go on & on with other players. Then again, Galway from 97/98 to 01/02 had an exceptional group of footballers so its probably unfair to compare the current team with that team.

MfMan

InchicoreDude wrote: »

I dont think the style of play has much to do with it to be honest. Good players will always adapt their style accordingly. And Gaelic football hasnt changed as much as some people think (like Brolly for example). For me, Ciaran Murphy gets it bang on here:



http://www.thescore.ie/galway-mayo-917346-May2013/

I agree with you on the gulf in class between todays panel & 2001 though.

Tomas Mannion was number 6 in 2001. Compare him with Keith Kelly or Johnny Duane. Mannion is vastly superior.

Paul Clancy was number 10. Compare him with Conor Doherty. Clancy is vastly superior.

You could go on & on with other players. Then again, Galway from 97/98 to 01/02 had an exceptional group of footballers so its probably unfair to compare the current team with that team.

Agree, but then again, Mannion at that stage had 10 hard years experience behind him. I also agree that it's not 'deliberate tactical snobbery' that's holding Galway back; the 98/01 team would be just as good today such was their talent. It's not that all our current players aren't good enough, there's probably a handful that could feasibly win an AI, provided a stronger panel was built with them. The secret is for it to happen like '98 when a confluence of the experienced, the men in their prime and the dashing and hugely talented young players all came together at once. Could happen again but it won't be near term.

Anyway, as for the domestic scene, Corofin look nailed on certainties to win again. At present Milltown would look to be their closest challengers with Kilkerrin/Clonberne dark horses. Tuam appear to be weaker and Salthill look to be gone back a bit IMHO. Predict wins for James over Caltra, Milltown over Caherlistrane, Mountbellew over Lettermore, Kilconly to edge out Moycullen, Kilkerrin over Annaghdown, Cortoon over Tuam. A handicap on Carna over Salthill would be worth a look while St. Michaels, though weakened, are great value at 7/2 to beat Killererin.

InchicoreDude

MfMan wrote: »

Anyway, as for the domestic scene, Corofin look nailed on certainties to win again. At present Milltown would look to be their closest challengers with Kilkerrin/Clonberne dark horses. Tuam appear to be weaker and Salthill look to be gone back a bit IMHO. Predict wins for James over Caltra, Milltown over Caherlistrane, Mountbellew over Lettermore, Kilconly to edge out Moycullen, Kilkerrin over Annaghdown, Cortoon over Tuam. A handicap on Carna over Salthill would be worth a look while St. Michaels, though weakened, are great value at 7/2 to beat Killererin.

Milltown definitely look strong this year. Players like Diarmuid Blake, Darren Mullahy should still have a lot to offer at club level. Mark Hehir & Michael Martin too. And now they have James Kavanagh to add to that:

http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/kavanagh-eyes-tribe-transfer-230359.html

RobbieRuns

InchicoreDude wrote: »

Milltown definitely look strong this year. Players like Diarmuid Blake, Darren Mullahy should still have a lot to offer at club level. Mark Hehir & Michael Martin too. And now they have James Kavanagh to add to that:

http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/kavanagh-eyes-tribe-transfer-230359.html

Good luck to Kavanagh, can't be easy making that switch. Be a great additon to the Milltown boys.

aidan24326

This Galway team has some very ordinary players and going out to play with 'controlled aggression' isn't going to change that.

And it isn't unfair to compare them with the class of 98-01. The fact is that that's the calibre of player you need to be competing for All-Irelands. Comparing those teams with what we have now only highlights just how far off the pace we are. ( i.e a long long way off).

That said, a bit of organisation, gameplan and tactical savvy would help. All sadly lacking last Sunday. Up to AM now to show if he can he turn things around, even to the extent of winning a couple of qualifiers and making some sort of progress. But the evidence so far suggests that this will be another very short Summer for Galway.

Lookitnow

InchicoreDude wrote: »

I agree with you on the gulf in class between todays panel & 2001 though.

Tomas Mannion was number 6 in 2001. Compare him with Keith Kelly or Johnny Duane. Mannion is vastly superior.

Paul Clancy was number 10. Compare him with Conor Doherty. Clancy is vastly superior.

You could go on & on with other players. Then again, Galway from 97/98 to 01/02 had an exceptional group of footballers so its probably unfair to compare the current team with that team.

I also think its unfair to compare players like Mannion and Keith Kelly. We need to stop weighing players down with comparisons to 98.

I think what is going to hold us back though is the absence of seasoned, tough players like Tomas Mannion. This means that all the young players are going have to learn the ropes all by themselves and much like Roscommon this is going to take longer than it has taken for other counties. With this being the case we need a plan. These are in no particular order.



1. Need to make changes to the county championship to make it more competitive. We also need to play more of the championship between senior inter country games. I think at the moment the system is far too skewed towards "saving" county players.

2. We need to keep churning out underage teams that are competitive at a national level. As we lack more experienced players, we will need the players from 2011/2013 to become the more experienced players with more good young players to follow to strengthen the team further.

3. We need a better focus on strength, fitness and conditioning. Over the last few years we seem to lack this. Once this year is over for example we need the management to put in place plans for next year in this regard. We also need to improve how we physically develop the players from underage. A lot of the 2011 U21 team look no stronger now than they did 2 years ago.

4. We need to put in a strong effort at getting back to Division 1 football, as this will help the team to develop further, although I don't think this is as important as other people claim. We need to be ready for it too. No point in getting promoted and coming straight back down.

5. We need to have a manager (whether AM or not) who tactically tries something different to what has been tried for the last 3 years (if these were tactics). There should be a much stronger emphasis on defensive discipline. Once we become stronger defensively we can focus more and more on developing a more attack minded Galway team that adheres to the principles of Galway football. There's nothing saying that Galway football can't be strong defensively and play good football. Although I can't remember it (pre 97) I'm sure Galway had tough players even before the 98-01 era. I'm sure there was nothing nice about the team of the mid 60s for example!



Personally I would prefer to see Alan Mullholland make these changes as we are only in year 2 of a 5 year plan, and it will take at least 5 years to make this team competitive. We could be talking 5 years before we win Connacht, especially if Mayo don't let up over this time period.

nootroc

Johnny Hughes, Liam O'Neill

InchicoreDude

Nice to see a few Galway lads involved in London's terrific victory today. I see Gottche, Geraghty & Dunleavy were involved.

Diabhal Beag

Alan Mullholland is looking like a slightly better manager today alright :pac: London have been coming on leaps and bounds in the last 5 years or so. They've great potential considering the amount of lads heading over to London for work.