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How to Use A Roundabout
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Well, that's the problem: reasonable people disagree over an important point!Well i disagree
c) overrides a) and b) because it clearly states ANY EXIT after 12..
It is an explicit statement that overrides A or B if that condition is met.. Not the other way round. The key word is Any here.. if it was "subsequent" or any other wording then i would agree.
You could say that "ANY EXIT after 12 o'clock" is more general, and is overridden by the more specific rules for first and second exits.
The trouble is, there's no way to say that either way is correct. Both are fair interpretations of the ambiguous text. You could argue that the capitalised, bolded and underlined "ANY EXIT" means "this overrides other rules", but it's not really clear cut.
FWIW, I would take the right-hand lane for the OP's case anyway, as it seems more common-sense to do so. On the other hand, I use the right lane for going straight if there's no one else nearby anyway, so
It's not important that posters "should fail" or not. What's important is that there is this confusion due to past ambiguity of published guidelines, which would lead to apparently 50% of people being in the right lane and 50% being in the left lane. This is obviously a dangerous situation and the sooner it's remedied the better. Maybe the RSA should put out TV adverts highlighting the proper way to do it.According to a fair proportion of the people who posted in this thread they would be in the right hand lane entering the roundabout and according to the rules the inspectors use which was posted earlier, those posters should fail.
Technically I don't see that either rule is superior to the other. It just matters that we all use the same one, and there's a very good reason why we do not: ambiguity in published ROTR and, as a result, ambiguity from instructors. I don't recall my own instructor ever even taking me through a roundabout other than "mini" ones. :eek:0 -
I'm not saying they don't exist but can you name many large roundabouts (that you can't see the far side of), that don't have a sign showing the configuration upon approach?
I'm not sure about the signage because I wasn't originally debating that, but more the clock method.
However, the Portlaoise roundabout pops into my head because it's massive and I only took it there on the weekend for the Motors meet and you cannot see over the other side of it partcularly well if I remember correctly.
Same would go for the Kilcock roundabout.
All, I'm sure, have appropriate signage, but my point was that putting this blanket method of using 'o clock' on every single roundabout to guage your lane isn't very good because there are a variety of different sized roundabouts about the place.dooferoaks wrote: »Rules of the Road - Using roundabouts
IT doesn't matter the shape of the roundabout, or the geography of the exits,
Surely to fukc people can't honestly believe the Right hand lane is the correct answer, read the first couple of pages of this and got so depressed I couldn't read anymore. So if the video above has been posted already sorry.
Hahaha ...if only every roundabout had 4 perfectly symmetrical entries/exits eh?
The narrator says, left, straight and right... he couldn't be any more vague about what you should and shouldn't be doing on a roundabout.
That video is a complete cop out.
Get them to do one on the Walkinstown roundabout and we'll end every discussion there and then.0 -
no, it's just the only interpretation of the current ROTR, as opposed to the numbered system which is incorrect and has been for at least (almost) 5 years in ireland and has never been correct anywhere else.PaddyTheNth wrote: »It's not a rule, its an interpretation of the rules of the road. As is the numbered system.
It may be that the o'clock interpretation is a better representation of the rules of the road.
it's better because it was the system that was always intended as it is the same as every other country in Europe, meaning that people from the UK & Europe driving here (and visa versa) aren't going to be using the standard o'clock system and crash into someone using the (incorrect) numbered system.PaddyTheNth wrote: »However why many people are still arguing is that there doesn't appear to be a logical reason as to why the o'clock interpretation is better (better in terms of being logical, consistent and safe for road users) than the sequential system which it has apparently replaced. (ie the law is an ass)
the o'clock system is used simply because it is the most logical way to take account of all the possible factors on a roundabout so that everyone approaching and leaving the roundabout is able to easily follow the same set of rules to avoid anyone having an unnecessary accident because they were too busy counting exits to watch where they and everyone else on the roundabout were going.
in conjunction with the other standard rules for roundabout use it works as perfectly as possible once everyone is following the same rules, regardless of the size of the roundabout or the number of exits on it.
where there are two lanes entering a roundabout you use the left lane for anything up to and including directly opposite (and according to the RSA anything up to 1 o'clock to account for a slightly off-centre 'straight' exit) where you entered and the right lane for anything after that regardless of how many exits there are.
it's a system that works very well and has done for decades in the UK and the rest of Europe (and no doubt the rest of the world) and I have no doubt should have been implemented in Ireland from the start, but was mis-interpreted by some government lackie who couldn't wrap his head around the system and started counting exits which fluffed the whole thing up for everyone.
did you know that you were being ironic?The fact that more than 50% are wrong here is not surprising. Irish are shocking on roundabouts.
i'm suggesting that someone who is an official spokesperson for the Automobile Association of Ireland should know better than to write and article about people crashing on roundabouts and how terrible it is that half the people in the country don't know the correct ROTR to use on a roundabout and THEN proceed to tell people the wrong method and pass it off as the truth with an air of authority that someone in his position would command. there is a distinct possibility that people have read that article and had an accident as a result, thinking that they were doing the right thing because HE told them to. it's possible even that someone has been injured or even killed as a result and that is totally and wholly unacceptable from someone in his position and YES i stand by my previous statement that he is a muppet that shouldn't be allowed to keep his job for making a statement in his official capacity that could (and may well have already) easily result in someone being seriously injured or even killed.Honestly, are you suggesting that he checks the ROTR every day for updates on rules of thumb for roundabouts? And if he doesn't he's a "muppet" who should be fired?
it's the same old problem as in so many things, that there are a large percentage of people who think they are right about something without bothering to check whether or not they are actually doing the right thing to the point of ignoring anyone who attempts to correct them and continuing to do the wrong thing simply because it is what they have always done.
and yes, as a road user it is my, yours and everyone else's responsibility to make sure they are aware of the current ROTR and drive by them. would you expect to someone who perpetrated a crime against you to get away with it just because of a law that was only introduced 5 years ago that they claimed they didn't now about?
ignorance of any current laws or the current ROTR is no excuse when you have a personal responsibility as a citizen or road user to know the current laws/ROTR.
from the introduction page on the ROTR:The purpose of the Rules of the Road is to save lives and prevent injury on our roads. The rules apply to all road users: drivers, pedestrians, motorcyclists, horse riders and cyclists.
The rules are written in plain English to encourage good behaviour on the road.
The rules ask us to take personal responsibility for our use of the road.
The Rules of the Road have been designed in an easy to read format. It is your responsibility to read the rules and know them.
At the back of the book is a Glossary that explains some of the terms used. The rules are also published in Irish.
The rules comply with and reflect the Road Traffic Law as at 1 March 2007.
Where planned changes in the law are known with certainty a comment is included in the appropriate section to ensure the content reflects them.
It will be important to check the relevant section of the Road Safety Authority web site www.rsa.ie for updates.
We can save lives and prevent injury by changing our behaviour. Reading these rules and applying them will help achieve this goal.
It’s our responsibility.
It's our choice.0 -
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congratulations, add this to your list of things you failed.dooferoaks wrote: »Rules of the Road - Using roundabouts
IT doesn't matter the shape of the roundabout, or the geography of the exits,
Surely to fukc people can't honestly believe the Right hand lane is the correct answer, read the first couple of pages of this and got so depressed I couldn't read anymore. So if the video above has been posted already sorry.
the right hand lane is the correct lane as has been proven several times on the thread, if you'd bothered to read it before you got bored and made a fool of yourself.
the 12 o'clock rule is a method to help people to remember how to correctly negotiate a roundabout.What the hell is this 12 o'clock rubbish everyone keeps going on about, I did my test three years ago and I've never heard of it. If you're taking the 2nd exit on a 4 lane roundabout the correct approach lane is the left hand lane. It doesn't matter what time it is!!:pac:
if all roundabouts were perfect circles with only 4 equidistant exits then the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th exit rule would be sufficient. the problem is that they are not and a system had to be employed to take account of this that would work equally well regardless of the shape or number of exits on any given roundabout
the 'system' itself is, where there are two lanes coming onto a roundabout (unless road marking, a blocked lane or the garda tell you otherwise) you use the left lane for anything up to and including directly opposite where you entered the roundabout and the right hand lane for anything after that.
the 12 o'clock rule is just a simple visual way of explaining that that so that even a complete moron can understand it without burning out their brain cells, although i'm starting to have my doubts about that as of today.
where any roundabout is too big to see your exit as you approach, large signs depicting the exits are erected for you to check as you approach to ensure you have plenty of room to pick the correct lane for your exit.0 -
I'm not sure about the signage because I wasn't originally debating that, but more the clock method.
However, the Portlaoise roundabout pops into my head because it's massive and I only took it there on the weekend for the Motors meet and you cannot see over the other side of it partcularly well if I remember correctly.
Same would go for the Kilcock roundabout.
All, I'm sure, have appropriate signage, but my point was that putting this blanket method of using 'o clock' on every single roundabout to guage your lane isn't very good because there are a variety of different sized roundabouts about the place.
But thats the point I have just driven across the Kilcock (M4) roundabout 30 mins ago.. Each and every entry onto that roundabout has clear signage showing exactly where the exits are.. So it's somewhat irrelevant that you can't see them, if you look at the sign on approach (and they are 20ft high ) you know exactly which lane to be in if you know the rules of the road. 0 -
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I don't follow the INCREDIBLY vague method on the RSA website because it doesn't cover every scenario.
There is nothing vague about it.
I'm not going to add more links, because there are plenty of links already on this thread stating that, if you're going right, you use the right lane of the roundabout. No mention of the number of exits whatsoever.
The use of a clock face is supposed to make it clearer just exactly what "right" means. It's really really simple. You're coming from six o clock, visualise twelve o clock as being straight ahead. If you are going to an exit that's "later" than twelve o clock, e.g. one o clock or two o clock etc, you use the right lane.
You don't even have to use the twelve o clock rule if you don't want to. It's just simple. If you're approching a roundabout, you'll be heading either left, straight, or right when you leave it. If you plan to head left or straight, use the left lane. If you plan to head right, use the right lane.
I don't know, plenty of posters have already explained clearly and logically, with lots of back-up, exactly why the right lane is the correct lane to take in this case. I really, really don't understand how some people are just not getting it.Instead, I follow the method that my driving instructor taught me and the one that I also deem the safest.
The same method that I then used in my driving test where I passed, first time, without a single blemish in the roundabout category on a route that has about 8 roundabouts.
And were these standard roundabouts with four exits/entrances at equal angles to each other? Because then it's completely irrelevant.
And even if they weren't and you took the wrong lane and were lucky enough not to be marked down for it, I'll still take the rules of the road (as backed up by an e-mail from the RSA here) over your own anecdotal "evidence".0 -
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There is nothing vague about it.
I'm not going to add more links, because there are plenty of links already on this thread stating that, if you're going right, you use the right lane of the roundabout. No mention of the number of exits whatsoever.
I don't see a mention of a clock face in recent documentation either to be honest...
And as I said earlier, the RSA's video and diagram of the roundabout is of a 4 exit roundabout that's completely symmetrical... which does not make up every scenario.The use of a clock face is supposed to make it clearer just exactly what "right" means. It's really really simple. You're coming from six o clock, visualise twelve o clock as being straight ahead. If you are going to an exit that's "later" than twelve o clock, e.g. one o clock or two o clock etc, you use the right lane.
Again, I've already made my point regarding this. I don't need to visualise anything. I know how a clock works.. :pac:
I completely understand the method that you and other people are explaining about any exit after 12 o clock and so on...
We're not debating whether I understand that or not.
I'm debating that, as of 4 years ago, that is not how roundabout usage is taught. I can't vouch for 5+ years ago as I wasn't driving back then.You don't even have to use the twelve o clock rule if you don't want to. It's just simple. If you're approching a roundabout, you'll be heading either left, straight, or right when you leave it. If you plan to head left or straight, use the left lane. If you plan to head right, use the right lane.
Here we go again... when you're approaching a roundabout, there may be 2 exits on your immediate left, 2 directly straight ahead, and 2 directly on your right.... when you say 'You're either going left, straight or right...' - which one of these exits are you referring to?
This is my point - using left, straight, right is too simplistic for most roundabouts... hence calling the exits 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th... can't exactly go wrong or get confused when you're counting upwards can you?I don't know, plenty of posters have already explained clearly and logically, with lots of back-up, exactly why the right lane is the correct lane to take in this case. I really, really don't understand how some people are just not getting it.
Show me one poster that conclusively explains how all roundabouts works that ends all debates and confusion... please.And were these standard roundabouts with four exits/entrances at equal angles to each other? Because then it's completely irrelevant.
They were a multitude of different roundabouts like you experience in the real world, as opposed to the lovely symmetrical ones you and the RSA keep talking about.0 -
What are you talking about? The ROTR which I linked to earlier had a "left lane for 2nd exit" rule which is the source of the confusion 50% of drivers have about which lane to take on a roundabout.there is no such thing as the second exit, there is no ambiguity at all. there is the left lane for the 1st exit or straight on (which may be the same thing, depending on the number of exits), or the right lane for anything to the right of straight on.
there is no 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th or nth exit at all, just anything before or after straight on.
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B: does not exist, therefore is not ambiguous at all.
Now they've fixed the problem, but anyone who learned to drive before 3 or 4 years ago would have faced these ambiguous guidelines in the ROTR.
And, as I've mentioned already, a large number of driving instruction websites still parrot these rules and, presumably, still teach learner drivers to take the left lane for 2nd exits.
Can we have this discussion without attacking everybody?the fact that even after being corrected you choose to ignore that fact speaks volumes about the sort of road user you are and you don't come out in a very good light at all i'm afraid.
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people like you are exactly the reason why Ireland has such a high mortality rate on the roads and you should be ashamed of yourself, cop on.
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the right hand lane is the correct lane as has been proven several times on the thread, if you'd bothered to read it before you got bored and made a fool of yourself.0 -
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see the post before yours, yes it does and its not the first time it's been posted, but it keeps getting ignored. this is the documentation written for the people who you take your driving test with, even if nobody else in the country knew the correct ROTR, these are the guys that would and you should be listening to them, even if you choose to ignore the rest of us.I don't see a mention of a clock face in recent documentation either to be honest...
And as I said earlier, the RSA's video and diagram of the roundabout is of a 4 exit roundabout that's completely symmetrical... which does not make up every scenario.
its funny though, because you keep saying you understand it, but then keep getting it wrong, which i'd have to assume you are doing on purpose at this stage since you've been told over and over again. is there ever a point when you will admit you are wrong, or do you intend to keep pretending otherwise indefinitely?Again, I've already made my point regarding this. I don't need to visualise anything. I know how a clock works.. :pac:
I completely understand the method that you and other people are explaining about any exit after 12 o clock and so on...
We're not debating whether I understand that or not.
i linked to a PDF document of the ROTR from October 2006 in which showed the same (current) ROTR regarding roundabouts. did you take your test before October 2006 as that is 4 years & 9 months ago so it could be either way tbh, but it doesn' change the fact that the ROTR are revised from time to time and you are just as responsible as the rest of us for ensuring your ROTR knowledge is kept up to date.I'm debating that, as of 4 years ago, that is not how roundabout usage is taught. I can't vouch for 5+ years ago as I wasn't driving back then.
left right & straight is perfect for most roundabouts because there is very little ambiguity at all, despite what you seem to think. all you have to do is imagine that the roundabout isn't there and if you need to turn left, right or go straight on, you pick the correct lane. very simple for anyone to follow and as i've already said repeatedly, the same system used everywhere else you are likely to drive other than ireland.Here we go again... when you're approaching a roundabout, there may be 2 exits on your immediate left, 2 directly straight ahead, and 2 directly on your right.... when you say 'You're either going left, straight or right...' - which one of these exits are you referring to?
This is my point - using left, straight, right is too simplistic for most roundabouts... hence calling the exits 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th... can't exactly go wrong or get confused when you're counting upwards can you?
yes, me. suck it up and admit you are wrong because you are just digging a bigger hole for yourself.Show me one poster that conclusively explains how all roundabouts works that ends all debates and confusion... please.
They were a multitude of different roundabouts like you experience in the real world, as opposed to the lovely symmetrical ones you and the RSA keep talking about.
show me ANY roundabout at all and i can tell you right away which lane is correct for each exit because there is a very simple to understand system which works for everyone.
the current ROTR says 1st, straight & right. anything other than that is irrelevant as it is quite simply wrong.What are you talking about? The ROTR which I linked to earlier had a "left lane for 2nd exit" rule which is the source of the confusion 50% of drivers have about which lane to take on a roundabout.
Now they've fixed the problem, but anyone who learned to drive before 3 or 4 years ago would have faced these ambiguous guidelines in the ROTR.
And, as I've mentioned already, a large number of driving instruction websites still parrot these rules and, presumably, still teach learner drivers to take the left lane for 2nd exits.
i see no problem in attacking the intended actions of someone who plans to use feigned ignorance of the ROTR to willfully drive dangerously and put the lives of other road users at risk.Can we have this discussion without attacking everybody?
if someone wanted to run around a shopping centre waving a sword around because someone else had told them (incorrectly, obviously) that it was the right thing to do would anyone have any problem calling their actions idiotic? 0 -
What are you talking about? The ROTR which I linked to earlier had a "left lane for 2nd exit" rule which is the source of the confusion 50% of drivers have about which lane to take on a roundabout.
Now they've fixed the problem, but anyone who learned to drive before 3 or 4 years ago would have faced these ambiguous guidelines in the ROTR.
And, as I've mentioned already, a large number of driving instruction websites still parrot these rules and, presumably, still teach learner drivers to take the left lane for 2nd exits.
But (and I know you have stated you would go right).. that doesn't mean that those who have chosen left, and continue to argue that the left lane is the right choice, are correct.. They are still incorrect, and should now be aware of the correct procedure.. However, there does seem to be a large amount of.. I'll still continue to do it my way regardless, which is somewhat worrying..Can we have this discussion without attacking everybody?
Agreed.0 -
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simply because it is the way it has been taught to every other driver in every other country in Europe for decades and the way that everyone else knows how to do it. or do you think someone decided that it would be a lot better for the writers of irish roundabout law to just throw out the existing system everyone else was using altogether and purposely invent their own system which would contradict the existing system and cause foreigners driving in ireland and irish people driving in foreign countries (including the north where they would be using the UK system) to have accidents?PaddyTheNth wrote: »No, it's the interpretation being currently distributed (in some of its literature) by the RSA. There are many potential interpretations. You did notice that I said it may well be a more fitting interpretation than the sequential system, even if that is only because the rules of the road are not phrased in a way such as to clearly address all situations.
How do you know this?
yes it does and it does it very simply if you'd been paying any attention at all. :rolleyes:PaddyTheNth wrote: »Does all possible factors include being unable to see whether the second exit is at 11 o'clock or at 1 o'clock when you enter the roundabout? And that if I am taking the second exit relative to my entrance I am going to have to vary whether I enter in the left or the right lane depending on which entrance I take? And that in some roundabouts according to your rules the left entrance lane should never be used? Why introduce such inconsistency?
any roundabout small enough for you to see around will be very obvious and any roundabout of sufficient size that you can't will have a big 20 foot sign a good distance before it clearly marking each exit, where it leads to and it's position relative to YOUR position as you enter the roundabout making it a very very simple process for you to ensure you are in the correct lane in good time before you get to the roundabout.
again trying to pick tiny holes in an argument that you have already lost long ago in the vain hope of trying to win back some kind of credability rather than just growing a pair and admitting that you are wrong. :rolleyes:PaddyTheNth wrote: »Actually the October 2006 document which you linked only explicitly instructs use of the right lane if you are taking the last exit or doing a full circle.
copy/pasted directly from page 64 of the document i posted a link to that you referenced.When taking any intermediate exit
• do not signal on approach to the roundabout,
• select the appropriate lane on approach to and on the roundabout, signalling as necessary,
• stay in this lane until you need to alter course to exit the roundabout,
• signal your intention and move accordingly after you have passed the exit before the one you want,
• check for traffic on your left,
• leave the roundabout.
it also has this pretty little picture which clearly shows a slightly non-standard roundabout with the correct lane use for each exit which nicely illustrates my point.
that said, it is still an incomplete draft document, which i was just using to point out that the previous document that had been posted dated may 2006 with the incorrect system in it had been completely revised to exclude that system.
yes, all of them simply (even if for nothing else) that it is the standard system used everywhere else that has been in use for decades and to use a different system in a country physically attached to the north of ireland (using the standard UK 12 o'clock system) and with a large immigrant population also using the standard system AND with a large emigrant irish population is lunacy.PaddyTheNth wrote: »Can you clarify this and show a situation where the clock method works better than the sequential method?
show me somewhere it doesn't always happen because i can't think of anywhere and as someone who learnt to drive in the UK (where it's taught properly) and has driven many hundreds of thousands of miles in at least (to the best of my memory) 9 European countries plus two outside of Europe and has been using the correct method for negotiating roundabouts for the 17 years since I passed my driving test i'm pretty sure I would have noticed.PaddyTheNth wrote: »Ideally yes, but unfortunately this doesn't always happen.0 -
yes it does, as has already been stated DOZENS of times at this stage. your inability to accept this is the only thing standing in your way of correctly negotiating roundabouts.
Just because someone states something is fact dozens of times does not mean they're correct. Much like your argument here in fact.and if your driving instructor taught you to drive off cliffs would you do that too? :rolleyes:if someone wanted to run around a shopping centre waving a sword around because someone else had told them (incorrectly, obviously) that it was the right thing to do would anyone have any problem calling their actions idiotic?
Are we honestly resorting to this?
And you accused me of pedantry?see the post before yours, yes it does and its not the first time it's been posted, but it keeps getting ignored. this is the documentation written for the people who you take your driving test with, even if nobody else in the country knew the correct ROTR, these are the guys that would and you should be listening to them, even if you choose to ignore the rest of us.
And you don't think driving instructors follow these guidelines also? That's 2 consecutive instructors very recently, one private and one government employed, saying the same thing as me.its funny though, because you keep saying you understand it, but then keep getting it wrong, which i'd have to assume you are doing on purpose at this stage since you've been told over and over again. is there ever a point when you will admit you are wrong, or do you intend to keep pretending otherwise indefinitely?
Eh? I never even tried explaining the method you're touting. I just said I understood it, which I do... I just don't follow it because I was taught something slightly different.left right & straight is perfect for most roundabouts because there is very little ambiguity at all, despite what you seem to think.
I hate repeating myself. Not every roundabout has a simple left, straight and right. There are plenty roundabouts that are not identical to the one in the RSA video which you claim is 100% conclusive.
A large point I'm making here is that the RSA's instructions are not conclusive.show me ANY roundabout at all and i can tell you right away which lane is correct for each exit because there is a very simple to understand system which works for everyone.
Lol... really? I could tell you right away which lane I think is correct as well! Funny that isn't it?the current ROTR says 1st, straight & right. anything other than that is irrelevant as it is quite simply wrong.
Debating at it's very best!i see no problem in attacking the intended actions of someone who plans to use feigned ignorance of the ROTR to willfully drive dangerously and put the lives of other road users at risk.
Yes and I regularly drive backwards around roundabouts in a JCB... showing reckless abandon for proper lane usage as well!!!!!
Get a grip man. In 90% of situations, I would be using the exact same lines as you - whether I like it or not.PaddyTheNth wrote: »Does all possible factors include being unable to see whether the second exit is at 11 o'clock or at 1 o'clock when you enter the roundabout? And that if I am taking the second exit relative to my entrance I am going to have to vary whether I enter in the left or the right lane depending on which entrance I take? And that in some roundabouts according to your rules the left entrance lane should never be used? Why introduce such inconsistency?
This was more or less the point I was trying to make earlier regarding the large roundabouts and not knowing, preemptively, what lane you should be in because you don't know where your exit is.
There is far more factors, ambiguity and inconsistencies in that method.
I'll leave the rest of this debate until tomorrow. I'd rather not spend my spare time on here!0 -
and yet despite all this you are still 100% totally and utterly wrong and have been shown as such time and time again with links to the current and past ROTR going back 5 years, links to the criteria used by driving testers in Ireland a thread with an official response directly from a spokesperson (and someone who supervises driving testers) from the RSA themselves.And you don't think driving instructors follow these guidelines also? That's 2 consecutive instructors very recently, one private and one government employed, saying the same thing as me.
Eh? I never even tried explaining the method you're touting. I just said I understood it, which I do... I just don't follow it because I was taught something slightly different.
I hate repeating myself. Not every roundabout has a simple left, straight and right. There are plenty roundabouts that are not identical to the one in the RSA video which you claim is 100% conclusive.
A large point I'm making here is that the RSA's instructions are not conclusive.
Lol... really? I could tell you right away which lane I think is correct as well! Funny that isn't it?
Debating at it's very best!
Yes and I regularly drive backwards around roundabouts in a JCB... showing reckless abandon for proper lane usage as well!!!!!
Get a grip man. In 90% of situations, I would be using the exact same lines as you - whether I like it or not.
i'm not 'touting' anything, i have clearly stated the correct use of roundabouts in Ireland (and everywhere else) and explained that you and people like you are putting other road users at risk by ignoring them in favour of an incorrect and outdated system which never should have been used in the first place.
there simply is no debate, you are wrong and have been repeatedly shown incontrovertible proof of the fact that you and the rest of the 'lefties' are wrong you need to accept it instead of trying to blindly pretend otherwise out of some kind of misplaced bravado that prevents you from admitting your mistakes and as a result, putting other road users at risk.
and you didn't answer my previous question about how you intend to negotiate roundabouts if you are ever in the UK or anywhere else in Europe where they have been using the correct system for decades?
i'll use small words as the big ones still seem to be causing issues. :rolleyes:This was more or less the point I was trying to make earlier regarding the large roundabouts and not knowing, preemptively, what lane you should be in because you don't know where your exit is.
There is far more factors, ambiguity and inconsistencies in that method.
little roundabout = line of sight
big roundabout = big sign before you get there
it's not complicated at all and anyone who still can't understand such a basic concept needs to hand back their driving licence right away.0 -
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