The Pub trade is dying - Minimum price for Alcohol?

kingtiger

Aongus Von Bismarck wrote: »

It's absolute baloney to suggest the Government will lose significant support over this. Only today it was announced that Ireland will be the fastest growing economy in the EU in 2015. Thousands of jobs are being created. That's far more important to the majority of people than no longer being able to buy a can of cheap and nasty lager for less than a euro.

Jasus talk about condescending rubbish, you fit right in with Fine Gael

Aongus Von Bismarck

kingtiger wrote: »

Jasus talk about condescending rubbish, you fit right in with Fine Gael alright

I'm not a FG voter. Let me assure you that more people care about jobs, wage increases and an improvement in the economy than they do about how many cans of cooking lager a student can buy for a tenner. You might not think that from reading this site, but it's the truth. Have 5 cans instead of 8. You'll feel and look better. If value is the only consideration when buying alcohol then you may have a drug dependency.

kingtiger

Aongus Von Bismarck wrote: »

I'm not a FG voter. Let me assure you that more people care about jobs, wage increases and an improvement in the economy than they do about how many cans of cooking lager a student can buy for a tenner. You might not think that from reading this site, but it's the truth. Have 5 cans instead of 8. You'll feel and look better. If value is the only consideration when buying alcohol then you may have a drug dependency.

again with the condesending tone, you know nothing about my drinking habits

and you really think our present government has anything to do with our "economic recovery" you are seriously deluded

buried

Aongus Von Bismarck wrote: »

I'm not a FG voter. Let me assure you that more people care about jobs, wage increases and an improvement in the economy than they do about how many cans of cooking lager a student can buy for a tenner. You might not think that from reading this site, but it's the truth. Have 5 cans instead of 8. You'll feel and look better. If value is the only consideration when buying alcohol then you may have a drug dependency.

Another concern people have is the shocking state of the healthcare system in this country. Maybe Varadkar should deal with his actual ministerial brief, rather than showboating himself as a Nanny Teresa while helping his political party prop up a Vintner Racket lobby which cannot compete in a free market due to its own pathetic, out-dated, business model?

Banjo String

Aongus Von Bismarck wrote: »

Lots of the usual hysterical nonsense and gibberish from the Online Outrage Crew. These new measures will only cause price increases for the cheapest of drinks. Even the off licence lobby group admit that. So if your thing is getting pissed on 8 cans of Karpackie, or trying to justify your drinking by polishing off a bottle of Chateau Spar then it might be causing you annoyance.

It's absolute baloney to suggest the Government will lose significant support over this. Only today it was announced that Ireland will be the fastest growing economy in the EU in 2015. Thousands of jobs are being created. That's far more important to the majority of people than no longer being able to buy a can of cheap and nasty lager for less than a euro.

Dont you claim to be in Germany?

Maybe you can give us some beer price comparison with there and here......

Aongus Von Bismarck

buried wrote: »

Another concern people have is the shocking state of the healthcare system in this country. Maybe Varadkar should deal with his actual ministerial brief, rather than showboating himself as a Nanny Teresa while helping his political party prop up a Vintner Racket lobby which cannot compete in a free market due to its own pathetic, out-dated, business model?

Firstly, as much as I admire Varadkar, I don't expect him to have fixed the health care system after little more than 6 months in charge. Secondly, the hugely overstretched A&E system is full of people in there as a result of overdrinking. Thirdly, this has nothing to do with vintners. A nice bottle of wine or a few craft beers will still be far cheaper from an off licence. The Irish have their collective head in the sand about the devestation drink and drugs are doing to society and themselves. Depression, violence, suicide, head injuries, unwanted pregnancies. This is a very positive thing to happen. It's the start of a reappraisal of the relationship between the Irish and their booze habits.

CruelCoin

buried wrote: »

Another concern people have is the shocking state of the healthcare system in this country. Maybe Varadkar should deal with his actual ministerial brief, rather than showboating himself as a Nanny Teresa while helping his political party prop up a Vintner Racket lobby which cannot compete in a free market due to its own pathetic, out-dated, business model?

He's Minister of Health, not Minister of Hospitals and Clinics.

His brief includes drink, fags, prescription meds, and pretty much anything else that affects your health.

There's nothing wrong with the healthcare system, for the level of funding it receives. If i want an MRI i can get one tomorrow. If i wanted it for free, then i'd have to wait, but you'll not see me whinging over not getting a-grade free healthcare despite not paying a single brass obol for it.

You want something decent, you'll have to pay for it (either privatly or through higher taxes).

Countries with better performing healthcare systems are (shock) taxed more heavily than we are. You can have good, or you can have cheap, but you cannot have good and cheap. No such thing exists.

Aongus Von Bismarck

Banjo String wrote: »

Dont you claim to be in Germany?

Maybe you can give us some beer price comparison with there and here......

It's far cheaper here. Most things are. The Germans don't have the same devastating need to get pissed though. Alcohol is a social lubricant and not a way of bottling up or releasing emotions. I'm not sure of the point you are trying to make?

Banjo String

CruelCoin wrote: »

He's Minister of Health, not Minister of Hospitals and Clinics.

His brief includes drink, fags, prescription meds, and pretty much anything else that affects your health.

There's nothing wrong with the healthcare system. If i want an MRI i can get one tomorrow. If i wanted it for free, then i'd have to wait, but you'll not see me whinging over not getting a-grade free healthcare despite not paying a single brass obol for it.

You want something decent, you'll have to pay for it (either privatly or through higher taxes).

Countries with better performing healthcare systems are (shock) taxed more heavily than we are. You can have good, or you can have cheap, but you cannot have good and cheap. No such thing exists.

Cuba.

MonkeyTennis

And you think that raising the price of beer is going to help?

Its a nonsense

Caliden

Aongus Von Bismarck wrote: »

It's far cheaper here. Most things are. The Germans don't have the same devastating need to get pissed though. Alcohol is a social lubricant and not a way of bottling up or releasing emotions. I'm not sure of the point you are trying to make?

And why do you think that is?

Surely money would be better spent on fixing the problem instead of a bandaid.

Steve_Carella

Meanwhile in Colorado, the State has made so much money from the legalisation of weed that apparently they have to stop taxing it because there's a legal cap on how much can be collected from taxes! If our lords and masters in Leinster house want to make money (which seems to be the only thing the current government is REALLY interested in), why don't they legalise and regulate the sale of marijuana? Instead of constantly banging up the prices of things that are already legally available, leave those things alone and introduce a product that already has an established market. That way everything stays at a reasonable price, everybody can enjoy their own particular choice and the government makes a truckload of money for the Germans. Everyone is happy.

Well, everyone except the VFI but fuck them - they dug their own grave and now they're looking for everybody else to help them out while they do nothing to help themselves.

drumswan

Aongus Von Bismarck wrote: »

It's far cheaper here. Most things are. The Germans don't have the same devastating need to get pissed though. Alcohol is a social lubricant and not a way of bottling up or releasing emotions.

What utter horse****, the Germans drink more than the Irish.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_alcohol_consumption_per_capita

anncoates

anncoates wrote: »

They're not going to.

Somebody will google a diet site and round it off to the nearest 100 calories.

And an HSE inspector will visit, test the food and bring a court case / close the business because they are out by 50.

VinLieger

Aongus Von Bismarck wrote: »

Thirdly, this has nothing to do with vintners.

Their own election manifesto states categorically that you are wrong about this.

checkout page 26 section 5.3 http://www.slideshare.net/OfficialFineGael/fine-gael-manifesto-web

Or if your too lazy

Fine Gael recognizes the importance of the Irish Pub for tourism, rural jobs and as a social outlet in communities across the country. We will support the local pub by banning below cost selling on alcohol, particularly by large supermarkets and the impact this has had on alcohol consumption and the viability of pubs

Zero mention of the health impact, all they reference is the vintners

Banjo String

drumswan wrote: »

What utter horse****, the Germans drink more than the Irish.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_alcohol_consumption_per_capita

Was just about to post this.

Grandeeod

VinLieger wrote: »

Their own election manifesto states categorically that you are wrong about this.

checkout page 26 section 5.3 http://www.slideshare.net/OfficialFineGael/fine-gael-manifesto-web

Or if your too lazy



Zero mention of the health impact, all they reference is the vintners

And thats really what its about. Lets cast our minds back a few years to Michael McDowells attempt to license cafes. Shot down in a blaze of glory by the vintners and then dressed up with potential anti-social/health issues.

Slutmonkey57b

Aongus Von Bismarck wrote: »

Firstly, as much as I admire Varadkar, I don't expect him to have fixed the health care system after little more than 6 months in charge. Secondly, the hugely overstretched A&E system is full of people in there as a result of overdrinking. Thirdly, this has nothing to do with vintners. A nice bottle of wine or a few craft beers will still be far cheaper from an off licence. The Irish have their collective head in the sand about the devestation drink and drugs are doing to society and themselves. Depression, violence, suicide, head injuries, unwanted pregnancies. This is a very positive thing to happen. It's the start of a reappraisal of the relationship between the Irish and their booze habits.

The a&e system is actually overloaded with oap's clogging up beds for days/weeks/months on end because of a complete lack of hospice care for the elderly.

Regional a&e's which were considered not up to the standard required to deal with v. Serious incidents are closing down, instead of being repurposed to deal with the huge problem of elderly having falls/blackouts/chronic conditions which are generally high maintenance but uncomplicated.

There is certainly a substance-related boost at the weekend but not nearly ad great as past years because people get into fewer fights/falls drinking at home.

E.g. Vincent's is effectively the sole a&e for the whole south east of the country. It has 3 triage beds and everything in the supporting ward is full of oap's. Traffic has increased ridiculously from now shuttered operations in Loughlinstown etc without any extra space being provided.

Aongus Von Bismarck

Banjo String wrote: »

Cuba.

You also can't spout political dissent on the Internet. Or enjoy basic freedoms.

The Germans are far more likely to have a few beers or a glass or two of wine per day than going on the dry all week and then getting utterly inebriated at the weekend. You'll also see many other cultural differences. Germans never boast about how much beer they drank the night before. Getting blind drunk is unacceptable in most bars and restaurants. Fights outside kebab shops doesn't happen as much as in Ireland. There is much less of an air of menace and aggression about. There are far less chronic alcoholics prowling the streets. The Germans don't have this utterly tragic and dangerous relationship with booze. The Irish do. The stereotypes didn't come from nowhere.

Mesrine65

Aongus Von Bismarck wrote: »

The Germans are far more likely to have a few beers or a glass or two of wine per day than going on the dry all week and then getting utterly inebriated at the weekend. You'll also see many other cultural differences. Germans never boast about how much beer they drank the night before. Getting blind drunk is unacceptable in most bars and restaurants. Fights outside kebab shops doesn't happen as much as in Ireland. There is much less of an air of menace and aggression about. There are far less chronic alcoholics prowling the streets. The Germans don't have this utterly tragic and dangerous relationship with booze. The Irish do. The stereotypes didn't come from nowhere.

http://www.dw.de/the-highs-and-lows-of-germanys-drinking-culture/a-2226609

mikom

Aongus Von Bismarck wrote: »

You also can't spout political dissent on the Internet. Or enjoy basic freedoms.

The Germans are far more likely to have a few beers or a glass or two of wine per day than going on the dry all week and then getting utterly inebriated at the weekend. You'll also see many other cultural differences. Germans never boast about how much beer they drank the night before. Getting blind drunk is unacceptable in most bars and restaurants. Fights outside kebab shops doesn't happen as much as in Ireland. There is much less of an air of menace and aggression about. There are far less chronic alcoholics prowling the streets. The Germans don't have this utterly tragic and dangerous relationship with booze. The Irish do. The stereotypes didn't come from nowhere.

Walter Schmitty has spoken.

CruelCoin

Banjo String wrote: »

Cuba.

Keep believing that Cuba is better than Ireland for anything else than it's doctors.

Communism will get you that shiny healthcare system, and all for the low-low cost of terrible everthing else.

I'll tolerate having the healthcare system we have (for those who want it free, again, it's fine for those who pay), if i can keep going on holidays, having a free press, and having road/education/economic systems worth having.

buried

Aongus Von Bismarck wrote: »

The stereotypes didn't come from nowhere.

Yes, yes, lets draft all future legislation to do with the entire population based on "stereotypes" :rolleyes:

Slutmonkey57b

Mesrine65 wrote: »

http://www.dw.de/the-highs-and-lows-of-germanys-drinking-culture/a-2226609

That's a comparison between German and American drinking culture, and is framed as such. A comparison with the Irish wouldn't be so doom laden.

drumswan

Aongus Von Bismarck wrote: »

You also can't spout political dissent on the Internet. Or enjoy basic freedoms.

The Germans are far more likely to have a few beers or a glass or two of wine per day than going on the dry all week and then getting utterly inebriated at the weekend. You'll also see many other cultural differences. Germans never boast about how much beer they drank the night before. Getting blind drunk is unacceptable in most bars and restaurants. Fights outside kebab shops doesn't happen as much as in Ireland. There is much less of an air of menace and aggression about. There are far less chronic alcoholics prowling the streets. The Germans don't have this utterly tragic and dangerous relationship with booze. The Irish do. The stereotypes didn't come from nowhere.

Bull****

mikom

CruelCoin wrote: »

Keep believing that Cuba is better than Ireland for anything else than it's doctors.

Cigars.

Aongus Von Bismarck

mikom wrote: »

Walter Schmitty has spoken.

You seem incapable of responding to any of my posts and instead rely on firing out low-level insults. I'd suggest you pop me on ignore if I annoy and frustrate you so much. Or practice some mindfulness to relax.

Aongus Von Bismarck

Aongus Von Bismarck wrote: »

You also can't spout political dissent on the Internet. Or enjoy basic freedoms.

The Germans are far more likely to have a few beers or a glass or two of wine per day than going on the dry all week and then getting utterly inebriated at the weekend. You'll also see many other cultural differences. Germans never boast about how much beer they drank the night before. Getting blind drunk is unacceptable in most bars and restaurants. Fights outside kebab shops doesn't happen as much as in Ireland. There is much less of an air of menace and aggression about. There are far less chronic alcoholics prowling the streets. The Germans don't have this utterly tragic and dangerous relationship with booze. The Irish do. The stereotypes didn't come from nowhere.

If I want to go out and get hammered that's my decision to make not for the government to interfere in it.

Why do certain elements in government and society feel the need to try and influence other peoples drinking? This wont even make any difference (to me anyway) its just annoying that on a weekend I choose to drink at home rather than the pub to have a cheaper weekend I will now have to pay more, no more getting 24 cans for 24 euro which was always the perfect ratio.

Will I drink a drop less because of these measures? No, in fact things like this make me want to drink more. We already pay massive amounts of tax on goods and on our incomes, I took a few extra hours work outside my day job and 50% of it is all that will get into my bank account. 50 ****ing percent and then I'm being told I'm not allowed buy a can of bavaria for a euro.

Also I have worked and drank with a number Germans here and they are sows for the drink as much as any Irish person and have no problem getting hammered.

runawaybishop

Neamhshuntasach wrote: »

How? As somebody that is on a strict diet at many times throughout the year due to weightlifting i welcome seeing the amount of calories on menus. Granted it's not a complete breakdown of ingredients and quantities. But it helps. Sometimes it's unavoidable to eat out, family events etc. So for me that will assist in determining what i eat. Also somebody that may be trying to lose weight and stay under their maintenance calories could benefit from it. It's already on every other food product. So why not on menus?

Ah it is bollox though - its just a half measure. Its a meaningless number for most people and for those who do know what they should be eating its lacking the macro breakdown which is key. I don't think its harmful or anything, its just fairly pointless.

Aongus Von Bismarck

buried wrote: »

Yes, yes, lets base all future legislation to do with the entire population based on "stereotypes" :rolleyes:

You'll have to point out where I said that.

Also, we have people saying that the Government shouldn't legislative for the minimum price of cheap alcohol. Anything else they shouldn't legislate for? The minimum wage or minimum social welfare payments? It's always about people's rights and never their responsibilities when dealing with the online outrage crew.