The Pub trade is dying - Minimum price for Alcohol?

Eutow

Gannicus wrote: »

I'm a bit juxtaposed by the whole minimum price of drink situation.

I don't really care about pubs saying the'll have to close their doors, they charge well over the odds in a lot of places for the price of a pint and the competetive pubs should/will survive. So in that respect I am opposed to minimum pricing of alcohol.

In saying that I would like to see a minimum price put on a alcohol as this country (from my experience of living in and growing up in Dublin,
nearly 30 now) we have a massive drink problem and the only way to kurb that is to make it too expensive to drink such large quantities of booze in one night or over a weekend etc. It puts a massive strain on Garda and HSE resources dealing with the mess people get themselves into, and the trouble caused.

I know a lot of this can be argued away with the likes of people not knowing when to stop and others mixing drink with drugs; but you can't argue that drink isn't still a predominant factor and that Ireland has always been seen as a boozey country.

One thing that will be interesting to see is what pubs should be charging roughly for a pint or shot etc when specific pricing does come in. I'd bet the farm pubs won't drop the price of pints, hell I doubt they'll leave them at the price they are now. I think the most likely option will be more people will stay at home because it'll be too expensive to pre-drink aswel as go out and people are already unhappy with the cost of going for a few pints.

I'm not much of a drinker so I'm annoyed when I get a 330ml bottle or can of coke and I'm charged between €2 and €4 when I can get a can of coke in my local newsagents for €1.

Are the PVI going to start demanding minimum prices on soft drinks or cordials too?

Instead of having a minimum price, charge and fine people for the use of Garda and HSE resources if they are drunk and causing trouble. Fine pubs for continually serving people that then cause trouble. Make people responsible for their actions. Leave people who can handle their drink, and don't cause trouble alone.

Iranoutofideas

This won't just affect cheap 1 euro cans. This will push up the cost of all alcohol, including craft beer.

Pedro K

FG's pre election manifesto

Check out page 26. This was never about public health. I tweeted same to Varadkar.

matrim

suicide_circus wrote: »

The danger is that the micro brewers will jack uo their prices to maintain their "premium" status as they dont want their product to be seen to be the same price as a can of piss.

As it stands many of them are pricing as low as possible and can't really go any lower. I hope that we see what CruelCoin proposed and think we might on the core range of some craft beers but I worry what it will do for breweres taking chances and producing strong and unusual beers

Mr. J

Flem31 wrote: »

We would also be living longer and that wouldn't suit either.

That's where the water charges come into play. You can only pay your charges with corn flakes. We would all be dead in a few months. Ireland will be an empty island. It's perfect! We'll show the world the way. All the countries will look to follow our lead!! COME ON IRELAND!!

CruelCoin

Connavar wrote: »

That is assuming the €2.50 loveliness drinks companies don't say, hey people used to pay €1.50 extra for our loveliness so we will raise our prices too even though we don't have to

True.

I'd still pay it though.

Quality must be paid for.

mikom

Pedro K wrote: »

FG's pre election manifesto

Check out page 26. This was never about public health. I tweeted same to Varadkar.

Good find.

Supporting Irish Pubs:
Fine Gael recognises the importance of the Irish pub for tourism, rural jobs and as a social outlet in communities across the country.
We will support the local pub by banning the practice of below cost selling on alcohol, particularly by large supermarkets and the impact this has had on alcohol consumption and the viability of pubs.

Muahahaha

ScumLord wrote: »

Voting no in a referendum to punish one particular politician that did something you don't like is like cutting off your own fingers to show someone how serious you are.

The person you're actually angry at won't ever know you've done it, you'll have let your country and community down by wasting your vote and you'll put other people through misery for absolutely no benefit.


Is this really the level of responsibility people have for their country?

I know its irresponsible but at this stage I'm just sick of this government.

Them losing the gay marriage referendum will only serve to hasten their exit from office. If a government keeps bringing referendums to the public based on their own policies and the public keeps voting them down (as we have already done on all four FG referendums with the exception of the Childrens one) then the legitimacy of that governemts power is reduced.

In any case I'm just letting off steam. I'm still undecided on the gay marriage thing and am waiting to see the debate. But Leo arguing for it isn't going to enamour me to his point of view when I know well he is acting like a liberal on this issue but a conservative on the alcohol one. It's hypocrisy to suit his own personal agenda.

CruelCoin

kingtiger wrote: »

huh? it will be based on Alcohol units so that lovely bottle of strong Craft beer will double in price overnight

And thats the old drinking to get wasted chestnut again.

Not all craft beer is based around alcohol bv.

Just look at all the beers brewed for taste; inis&gunn, banana bread, any-of-the-legion-of-new-ipas, etc.

Craft beer (as i see it) is beer brewed for taste, not abv talking point figures.

(Admittedly, some of the strong ones are quite nice)

Kalyke

Pedro K wrote: »

FG's pre election manifesto

Check out page 26. This was never about public health. I tweeted same to Varadkar.

Had trouble finding it but it is on slide 27. Bunch of HYPOCRITES.

Caliden

mikom wrote: »

Good find.

Don't go to the health section, it reads like a bad joke.

jackofalltrades

CruelCoin wrote: »

The only people getting ****ed over are those drinking to get wasted on ****ty beer, which is exactly the point.

Incorrect, this is going to affect everyone.
It's going to hit the vast majority of beer and wine drinkers.

Eutow

And they always come out with the below cost selling bull but never provide an ounce of proof.

matrim

CruelCoin wrote: »

And thats the old drinking to get wasted chestnut again.

Not all craft beer is based around alcohol bv.

Just look at all the beers brewed for taste; inis&gunn, banana bread, any-of-the-legion-of-new-ipas, etc.

Craft beer (as i see it) is beer brewed for taste, not abv talking point figures.

Enjoying a strong beer has nothing to do with getting wasted. You can often get more complexity to the flavour and brewers can do things that are otherwise impossible with lower abv beers. For example you'll find very few whiskey aged stouts below about 8%

kingtiger

CruelCoin wrote: »

And thats the old drinking to get wasted chestnut again.

no its not, I like a bottle of strong beer from time to time cause I like the taste

its not only the strong beer that will increase, everything will

just to fit the VFIs agenda of getting people back into the pubs

smash

smash wrote: »

In European countries where the drinking age is 16, you don't see teenagers falling around the place drunk like you do on the streets of Ireland. .

People not drinking to get drunk regularly in European countries and teenagers in European countries not getting drunk are two complete fallacies that many people appear to believe.

I have a number of Italian friends and their opinion is there is almost no sign of an underage drinking problem here (and laugh when they read how "bad" it is) where as in Italy there is a massive massive problem at the moment with young teenagers getting completely hammered across the country.

MonkeyTennis wrote: »

Getting back on point.

Does anyone think raising the price of drink will help Irelands drinking problem ?

As a person who is not afraid of a few pints on a regular basis (I've been out at least once a week except for one week since sometime in November) it will make absolutely to difference to how much I drink and I'm sure its the same for the vast majority of people.

CruelCoin wrote: »

Nope but it'll do wonders for the craft beer trade.

Before:
€1 piss vs €2.50 loveliness.

Now:
€2.20 piss vs €2.50 loveliness.

Won't take long before people migrate from the mass produced crap and actually drink something worth drinking.

I for one welcome this change. Will create more micro breweries and create more drinking choice for me.

Give me the 1 euro can over craft beer which is pure p*ss in the majority of cases.

TheDoc

Interesting exchange with Varadkir on twitter. Has no problem admitting that the minimum pricing will be lucrative for publicans, but the entire contents of the bill they probably won't be hot about as it will reduce consumption overall.

Unfortunately it seems the government again making drastic assumptions that consumption will fall. PRetty sure that hasn't been the case with smoking, and we know how the highest % population of smokers in the EU, alongside having the highest priced tobacco.

Also the discussion around the quality of beer and types os a stupid argument. The whole point is having choice. While some may purchase or consume strictly based on their income allowance, others will consume based on preference and taste. You can give me a pint of Baravia over Heineken or Budweiser any day of the week. What I think is piss, you probably think is lovely.

I think craft beer is such a woeful trend, and any I've tried has been utterly garbage. But I appreciate there are those out there that like it.

But that is here nor there. What they really should do is just be open about it, lets have some honesty. "We are introducing a price increase on whats regarded as cheap beer and alcohol, because we feel that this product is targeted towards low income individuals, and they simply can't help themselves but get slaughtered"

There is nothing scandalous or crony going on here, although you'd be forgiven for thinking that considering over 70% of the TD's in office today have associations with pubs through direct ownership or family ownership, but its an honest attempt by the government to tackle a problem.

Unfortunately it appears as usual the only solution is to raise the price on something in the hope people stop, and sure if they dont, atleast the coffers will get a few extra bob in the meantime.

Specialun

I think people should boycott all VFI pubs..to show them we tink there hoots on tis one

Geuze

kingtiger wrote: »

huh? it will be based on Alcohol units so that lovely bottle of strong Craft beer will double in price overnight

This is incorrect.

It is a min price.

Most "craft" beers are already sold at prices well above the min.


Did an electrician on 21 ph get a wage rise if the min wage goes from 8.00 to 8.65?

VinLieger

TheDoc wrote: »

There is nothing scandalous or crony going on here, although you'd be forgiven for thinking that considering over 70% of the TD's in office today have associations with pubs through direct ownership or family ownership, but its an honest attempt by the government to tackle a problem.

Unfortunately it appears as usual the only solution is to raise the price on something in the hope people stop, and sure if they dont, atleast the coffers will get a few extra bob in the meantime.

Really? Nothing crony? Have you read their manifesto where the only reference to minimum pricing is in regards to helping rural pubs fight supermarkets and low coat selling

A Disgrace

Geuze wrote: »

This is incorrect.

It is a min price.

Most "craft" beers are already sold at prices well above the min.


Did an electrician on 21 ph get a wage rise if the min wage goes from 8.00 to 8.65?

Minimum price 'per unit' - most Craft Beer is relatively high volume (compared to the budget beers) and thus contains more 'units' so they'll go up in price too

DipStick McSwindler

This post has been deleted.

CruelCoin

Willa Juicy Sorrow wrote: »

Give me the 1 euro can over craft beer which is pure p*ss in the majority of cases.

You cannot compare dutch gold to pretty much any IPA.

Your tastebuds are dead sir.

kyogger

Geuze wrote: »

Did an electrician on 21 ph get a wage rise if the min wage goes from 8.00 to 8.65?

Hi, actually, yes. A change in minimum wage does have an impact on wages in general.

batnolan

Can anyone explain to me what the Vintners Association is?

I am seeing alot of accusatory posts about them.

Their website does not provide much information http://www.vfi.ie/WhyJoinUs

CruelCoin

TheDoc wrote: »

You can give me a pint of Baravia over Heineken or Budweiser any day of the week.

Those are all piss...

Like comparing a corolla to a punto. Both equally crap.

The Backwards Man

batnolan wrote: »

Can anyone explain to me what the Vintners Association is?

I am seeing alot of accusatory posts about them.

Their website does not provide much information http://www.vfi.ie/WhyJoinUs

It's a rep body for pubs, the theory is they will lobby on behalf of premises on issues that affect them. The reality is you pay your sub and they do feck all for anybody except the big players.

Just like any other lobby group I suppose.

VinLieger

batnolan wrote: »

Can anyone explain to me what the Vintners Association is?

I am seeing alot of accusatory posts about them.

Their website does not provide much information http://www.vfi.ie/WhyJoinUs

The are one of two associations of pub owners in Ireland, they are mainly a lobby group for pushing publican issues through government

Geuze

There is some talk of a min price of 9-11 cent per gram of alcohol.


The Scottish MUP is 50p per UK unit of alcohol.

A UK unit is 7.9 grams of alcohol, or 10 ml of alcohol.

So the Scottish MUP is 6.3 pence per gram.

That converts to 8.43 cent at today's 75 pence exchange rate.

So the prices mentioned in the Indo today are ahead of the Scot MUP.


WARNING: an Irish unit of alcohol has 10g of alcohol, versus 7.9g in the UK.

So an Irish unit has 12.66ml of pure alcohol.

So UK units are not the same as RoI units.

VinLieger

Geuze wrote: »

There is some talk of a min price of 9-11 cent per gram of alcohol.


The Scottish MUP is 50p per UK unit of alcohol.

A UK unit is 7.9 grams of alcohol.

So the Scottish MUP is 6.3 pence per gram.

That converts to 8.43 cent at today's 75 pence exchange rate.

So the prices mentioned in the Indo today are ahead of the Scot MUP.

The hope is that the EU court of justice will strike down the Scottish version of this which will also kill off ours