WikiLeaks & Sinn Fein

Bottle_of_Smoke

So within this non-story there's also another cable reguarding collusion and the murder of Pat Finucane

A cable said the former head of MI5 told US envoy Mitchell Reiss that her agency would turn over all the evidence it had on Mr Finucane's killing, provided any inquiry into the killing is conducted under the terms of a law passed in 2005.
Taoiseach Mr Ahern told Mr Reiss that the Irish government wanted the UK to provide evidence acknowledging its involvement in Mr Finucane's murder and wanted to know how high in the UK government collusion went.

Pat Finucane was shot dead in front of his family The murder of Mr Finucane, 39, by the UDA/UFF remains one of the most controversial of 30 years of violence.

Loyalist paramilitaries shot him 14 times as he sat eating a Sunday meal at home, wounding his wife in the process. The couple's three children witnessed the 1989 attack.

The killing was one of the most controversial of the 30 years of the Troubles in Northern Ireland, mainly because of the allegations of collusion between loyalist paramilitaries and members of the security forces.

So effectively proves there was collusion at a high level for that incident. Otherwise MI5 wouldn't be insisting the inquiry's carried out under the terms of some law. Would have thought that would be more newsworthy than the print version of what Bertie publicly said a few years ago.

paky

Considering that the Banks stole from us and Bertie Ahearn s.crewed the country, shouldnt sinn fein be looked on as heroes since they stole from the banks? i cant see the problem here

whippet

Its amazing to see the apologists / supporters of Sinn Fein twisting this new information by making it about Bertie.

This issue is about the connection between SF leadership and the IRA, the connection between elected politicians and organised criminality. We all know these links are there despite SF’s denials.

The whole Gerry McCabe debacle and the support lended by SF to murderers, a SF TD’s election posters being in the boot off a car with some very dodgy gear driven by one of his mates.

I will beat the mantra and stand by it, a vote for Sinn Fein is a vote for murderers and criminals.

Forget about the articulate boy from Donegal, SF are so rotten to the core it turns my stomach.

Bottle_of_Smoke

whippet wrote: »

This issue is about the connection between SF leadership and the IRA, the connection between elected politicians and organised criminality. We all know these links are there despite SF’s denials.

Sinn Fein don't deny the links between them and PIRA. Thats why they've sstuck to claiming the IRA didn't do it, or rather, there's no evidence they did.

Nodin

whippet wrote: »

Its amazing to see the apologists / supporters of Sinn Fein twisting this new information by making it about Bertie.

..........

The story is about Berties opinion.....which we've heard before, IMO.

COYW

whippet wrote: »

vote for Sinn Fein is a vote for murderers and criminals.

With you 100%.

robbyvibes

Bertie Ahern is a man of integrity, as a FF supporter (as was my daddy and grandaddy before) i am offended by terrorist SF supporters who say Bertie Ahern has no credibility. He was the finest leader Ireland ever had, after Haughey of course.

Notorious97

Monty Burnz wrote: »

Yeah, if you can't believe people who murder children, who can you believe?

Wheres the proof they robbed it? Get off the band wagon

Notorious97

robbyvibes wrote: »

Bertie Ahern is a man of integrity, as a FF supporter (as was my daddy and grandaddy before) i am offended by terrorist SF supporters who say Bertie Ahern has no credibility. He was the finest leader Ireland ever had, after Haughey of course.

Hahahahahahahahahaha

Thanks for that laugh, seriously thank you, made my day haha FF are a party of traitors, alway shave been and always will be.

Back on point, again i state where is the proof the IRA were involved? How do you know it wasn’t rogue members acting for self profit if there is any links to the IRA? Its an anti-republicans wet dream this cable.

ghostdancer

so basically all this 'new' information is that a diplomat repeated what Bertie had already told everyone anyway.

:rolleyes:


funnily enough, Bertie's pal Phil Flynn was investigated as part of the Northern Bank robbery, and named by a business associate as part of the plan to launder the money:
http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/idqlsneygb/

Monty Burnz

Notorious97 wrote: »

Wheres the proof they robbed it? Get off the band wagon

I don't believe their denials. The evidence points towards IRA involvement - look at those people who were caught with some of the money in their possession. There is also the fact that nobody else would have as much expertise and experience of robbing banks as the glorious IRA. What were they up to when they murdered Gerry McCabe, can anyone remember?

Occam's Razor says it was the IRA. Can you propose a more likely explanation? I'm all ears.

maccored

that'll stop them pesky shinners making election gains ....... not. Im sure theres going to be even more anti SF bull**** appearing in the next few months

LordSutch

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

But Pearse Doherty is such a great orator - all is forgiven....

Good speaker, I'll give you that, but he still speaks for Sinn Fein, all is not forgiven :cool:

maccored

Monty Burnz wrote: »

I don't believe their denials. The evidence points towards IRA involvement - look at those people who were caught with some of the money in their possession. There is also the fact that nobody else would have as much expertise and experience of robbing banks as the glorious IRA. What were they up to when they murdered Gerry McCabe, can anyone remember?

Occam's Razor says it was the IRA. Can you propose a more likely explanation? I'm all ears.

Occam's Razor says it was the british government (thats if you have any understanding of occams razor).

whippet

Notorious97 wrote: »

Back on point, again i state where is the proof the IRA were involved? How do you know it wasn’t rogue members acting for self profit if there is any links to the IRA? Its an anti-republicans wet dream this cable.

SF will always just deny, deny, deny usually this is enough for their band of merry men and supporters. I am sure you believed Bertie when he said he just got a dig out? or do others have to prove innocence when it suit you?

As for proof, I am sure I heard a member of the press on Newstalk this morning saying there was a secret recording of an IRA Army Council meeting with Gerry and Martin present talking about the bank job.

Maybe someone could clarify, but if this is true, I don't see how anyone could defend them, let alone give them a vote.

I stand by my assertion that a vote for Sinn Fein is a vote for Murderers and Criminals.

Monty Burnz

maccored wrote: »

that'll stop them pesky shinners making election gains ....... not. Im sure theres going to be even more anti SF bull**** appearing in the next few months

Yes, the whole Wikileaks thing is an anti-Shinner plot :rolleyes:

To be honest, SF making and holding gains depends for a large part on the Irish public forgetting long enough that these guys are the political wing of a group of murderers, thieves and racketeers. They've eased up on the murder, to be fair - but that doesn't mean we have to forget what they have done in the past. On the plus side for SF, there's a large chunk of the populace who don't care about what they did and never read the papers anyway, so they will get solid support from them by saying the right things.

In addition, their economic policies are no good, but that's for another thread.

Monty Burnz

maccored wrote: »

Occam's Razor says it was the british government (thats if you have any understanding of occams razor).

So an elaborate conspiracy is the most likely explanation?

The Razor generally recommends selecting the competing hypothesis that makes the fewest new assumptions (aka postulates, entities) when the hypotheses be equal in other respects. For instance, they must both sufficiently explain available data in the first place. It is in this sense that Occam's razor is usually understood.

...unless you are a Shinner

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam%27s_razor

ghostdancer

Monty Burnz wrote: »

I don't believe their denials. The evidence points towards IRA involvement - look at those people who were caught with some of the money in their possession. There is also the fact that nobody else would have as much expertise and experience of robbing banks as the glorious IRA. What were they up to when they murdered Gerry McCabe, can anyone remember?

Occam's Razor says it was the IRA. Can you propose a more likely explanation? I'm all ears.

remember the "IRA spy ring" at Stormont?
the one that turned out to be a complete fabrication by the PSNI?

i would prefer to see some evidence that the IRA were involved before believing it just because Bertie says so.

those who were caught with money in their possession don't seem to have been convicted, appart from Ted Cunningham, business associate of Phil Flynn, great pal of Bertie Ahern.

whippet

Monty Burnz wrote: »

Yes, the whole Wikileaks thing is an anti-Shinner plot :rolleyes:

To be honest, SF making and holding gains depends for a large part on the Irish public forgetting long enough that these guys are the political wing of a group of murderers, thieves and racketeers. They've eased up on the murder, to be fair - but that doesn't mean we have to forget what they have done in the past. On the plus side for SF, there's a large chunk of the populace who don't care about what they did and never read the papers anyway, so they will get solid support from them by saying the right things.

In addition, their economic policies are no good, but that's for another thread.

we all know that the election will just be a vote for anyone but FF. People who have never taken any notice of politics or the economy before will come out in force just so they can vote against FF.

The looney left and Sinn Fein will no doubt be knocking on doors bad mouthing main stream politics and picking up votes ... all on a very whishy washy manifesto that they can produce as they know they will never have to act on it.

Coupled with the retirment of many sitting TDs, there will be a stong possibility that SF could gain up to 14 seats and your Looney Left with another 6 or 7 ..... bizarre really.

I for one welcome all the bad press that can be published on SF, hopefully it will encourage more people to not vote for Murderers and Criminals

ghostdancer

Monty Burnz wrote: »

So an elaborate conspiracy is the most likely explanation?

...unless you are a Shinner

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam%27s_razor

you think the British government (yet again) setting up a conspiracy is more elaborate than 20+ IRA members robbing a bank in the middle of Belfast city centre at Xmas, none of them being caught, and f- all of the money ever recovered?

incidentally, 50k of money from the robbery was found at a PSNI sports club.



the IRA probably did it, but for all the talk that they did, there's very, very little evidence, including this supposed "rock solid" evidence that Bertie says exists...

Bottle_of_Smoke

whippet wrote: »

As for proof, I am sure I heard a member of the press on Newstalk this morning saying there was a secret recording of an IRA Army Council meeting with Gerry and Martin present talking about the bank job.

Now that actually would be newsworthy. I think you heard wrong.

ghostdancer

Monty Burnz wrote: »

Yes, the whole Wikileaks thing is an anti-Shinner plot :rolleyes:

To be honest, SF making and holding gains depends for a large part on the Irish public forgetting long enough that these guys are the political wing of a group of murderers, thieves and racketeers. They've eased up on the murder, to be fair - but that doesn't mean we have to forget what they have done in the past. On the plus side for SF, there's a large chunk of the populace who don't care about what they did and never read the papers anyway, so they will get solid support from them by saying the right things.

In addition, their economic policies are no good, but that's for another thread.

a bit like FF and FG a long time ago, right?

and plenty of Labour members and politicians are former IRA members themselves. their involvement is just a decade or 2 less recent than SF's.

Monty Burnz

ghostdancer wrote: »

i would prefer to see some evidence that the IRA were involved before believing it just because Bertie says so.

those who were caught with money in their possession don't seem to have been convicted, appart from Ted Cunningham, business associate of Phil Flynn, great pal of Bertie Ahern.

I don't think any evidence would convince you. There's plenty out there already, which you clearly know about already.

From my point of view, this is how things look (without wanting to be rude):

1. SF supporters here know that the IRA was behind the raid, but are sticking to the party line of 'deny everything'.
2. SF supporters here believe any nonsense they are told by the party hierarchy with a religious fervour (they would have that in common with many Fianna Failure supporters).

Now I don't which of you guys belongs to which category, but either way, there's no point in providing evidence because it will never be accepted anyway. Even if Adams came out and said that they did it, he'd probably be denounced as a British plant anyway :rolleyes:

jjmcclure

ghostdancer wrote: »

remember the "IRA spy ring" at Stormont?
the one that turned out to be a complete fabrication by the PSNI?

i would prefer to see some evidence that the IRA were involved before believing it just because Bertie says so.

those who were caught with money in their possession don't seem to have been convicted, appart from Ted Cunningham, business associate of Phil Flynn, great pal of Bertie Ahern.

What you don't need to see evidence for (as its already out there) is the fact that the IRA murdered innocent men, women and children at the behest of Adams, McGuinness, Kelly etc.

Face facts most of them are or have been murderers, drug dealers and gangsters

ghostdancer

Monty Burnz wrote: »

I don't think any evidence would convince you. There's plenty out there already, which you clearly know about already.

From my point of view, this is how things look (without wanting to be rude):

1. SF supporters here know that the IRA was behind the raid, but are sticking to the party line of 'deny everything'.
2. SF supporters here believe any nonsense they are told by the party hierarchy with a religious fervour (they would have that in common with many Fianna Failure supporters).

Now I don't which of you guys belongs to which category, but either way, there's no point in providing evidence because it will never be accepted anyway. Even if Adams came out and said that they did it, he'd probably be denounced as a British plant anyway :rolleyes:

i've already said that the IRA probably did it.

why don't you show us the evidence that apparently clearly exists, instead of making incorrect, ignorant assumptions.

Monty Burnz

ghostdancer wrote: »

a bit like FF and FG a long time ago, right?

That bit is important for me. There isn't a single member of FG or FF alive today who murdered anybody or robbed a bank for 'political reasons' (jokes about how Fianna Failure bankrupted us aside).

If SF abandoned criminality, and stopped defending violence, I'd certainly consider voting for them in say 50 years time when all links to the last 30 years are broken - assuming they sorted out their other policies of course.

ghostdancer

jjmcclure wrote: »

What you don't need to see evidence for (as its already out there) is the fact that the IRA murdered innocent men, women and children at the behest of Adams, McGuinness, Kelly etc.

Face facts most of them are or have been murderers, drug dealers and gangsters

yeah, i know.

thanks for the completely off-topic history lesson that everyone is aware of.

Monty Burnz

ghostdancer wrote: »

why don't you show us the evidence that apparently clearly exists, instead of making incorrect, ignorant assumptions.

Read my post again, and stop demanding things from me in an incorrect and ignorant fashion.

Joey the lips

Am i the only one that suspects the govt has no evidence.....

Am i the only one thats not surprised this apears just before the elections...


Its amazing what trouble the northern bank robbery caused in bringing down the assembley...All with proof...which we have all yet to hear or see.

It so reliable i could have put a bet on it...

RandomName2

Lonesome Boatman wrote: »

Its common knowledge Gerry Adams was in the IRA, he calls himself a republican yet seems ashamed to admit he was ever in the IRA. The man has no integrity and has lied about countless things, including the harbouring of his paedophile brother.

I think I would have some respect for him if he put his hands up and said

'Lads, you all know I was in the IRA. It is what I believed in. Still do. If necessary I feel that republicans should resort to violence again, but at the moment the political main-stream is the way to go'

I would still disagree with his outlook, but it would have my respect.

He looks like such a slibhin ducking and diving (as usual).