IMRA season 2011

earlyevening

nerraw1111 wrote: »

Broken lace? Yeah right. When I cruised past you, you were putting in 100% effort and your laces looked fine. In fact, I remember thinking at the time, 'That chap's laces are tied really tight.'

I came in 29th.

lol

Antigrav

Peterx wrote: »

Anyone I met coming the other way on the section before/after the loop was in the wrong race, both the faster early starters and the slower normal starters, the first two early starters were flying.

The only thing I would change for next year is the direction of running the loop, much easier to encourage everyone to stick to the mountain meatheal path going up it. Ohh and get a river at the finish line too please:)

+1 on the early starters.

I'd leave the loop clockwise as the pull up the sleepers is nice and runable and the descent a blast. The soft option to the right of the path should be a DNF as people were told. It means another marshal though :rolleyes:

Was nice to take that bit of track in the other direction after a few years of WW Trail

Slogger Jogger

Link to Paul Tierney's report here

I've emailed the imra webster to get it added to the imra reading room

donothoponpop

Kudos to that RD for Scarr over on the IMRA forum. "This is an open mountain race. If its blowing a gale, I do not care how experienced you are or how many races you run, you bring a cag or you don't start. I'm caring by not letting you start, because the mountain won't care either way."

ocnoc

In my 20 years of playing in the mountains, I have never had to call mountain rescue and touch wood I will never have to call them in the future either.

If you get yourself up, you can get yourself down.

There this little thing called personal responsibility. It helps to keep yourself alive.

Rinker

donothoponpop wrote: »

Kudos to that RD for Scarr over on the IMRA forum. "This is an open mountain race. If its blowing a gale, I do not care how experienced you are or how many races you run, you bring a cag or you don't start. I'm caring by not letting you start, because the mountain won't care either way."

newbie question.
Will a rain jacket that bundles up to fit in a pocket suffice or do you need to have something more substantial?

ocnoc

Rinker wrote: »

newbie question.
Will a rain jacket that bundles up to fit in a pocket suffice or do you need to have something more substantial?

That jacket sounds fine.
You just need something light to keep the wind off of you

C
RD

baza1976

Am I the only one here running the Munster Wednesday league/champs? Haven't heard anyhting here about the last 2 races, clare glens/murroe?? Just wondering

ocnoc

Currently mountain methal are doing serious work building tracks all over our mountains across the island.

In practice, it stops erosion from hundreds of hill walkers (and bikers and hill runners to a lesser extent) that bash up and down worn trails that some say scar the landscape. However, these paths become permanent and the mountain will never recover from the construction.
If ways were blocked off, it would give the land a chance to recover.

These paths also add to the numbers in the mountains. Would joe blogs really go up Mount Whatever if there wasn't a well made path going up to the exposed summit?

By constructing these pathways, are we not inviting unprepared people into the hills who risk serious injury if they get caught on an exposed ridge?
Anyone who has been on white hill (more a big spur) with a wind blowing knows exactly what I'm talking about.

MM are doing great work. Thousands of volunteer hours been put into the protection of the landscape, but is it the right way?
Are these tracks going to turn into the only rights of across the mountains in the future?

Apparently there is a new track up Slieve Binnian in the Mournes. I got caught out there last year and a few highly experienced mountain marathoners ended up going down with exposure and been pulled off the mountain by Mountain Rescue. Now put Joe Blogs and his wife on a Sunday stroll up this track on a lovely sunny morning. 2hrs later they reach the top, bam, weather turns and they are in a whole world of sh1t.

Access paths bring unprepared people into the hills.
Am I been over cautious?

Look at the Wednesday Lenister League, some open mountain races, people been out for over an hour in lovely sunny afternoons (avg times from Scarr, Brockagh, Seefingan, 63mins.) All we need is for the weather to turn nasty once and we (IMRA) could be in a whole world of sh1t.

Should IMRA introduce a standard kit like they do in the UK?
Should we have access paths in the mountains?
What I love about the mountains is that I can go between A and B and never run the same route twice, even if I wanted, not running along a stone track

Rant over

Stark

I'm not a big fan of the mountain meitheal paths in general. Too unpleasant to run/bike over. The Tibradden IMRA race just isn't the same since MM redid half the route.

ocnoc

Up in NI, their Hill and Dale series. A tougher version of the LL, most races go off trail as far as I know, and them there mournes be steeper!

From http://www.nimra.org.uk/clubs/hill_&_dale_series_2010.htm

All competitors must carry a whistle.
If the weather is poor, all competitors must carry a waterproof coat. All runners must report to the finish.
Reasonable fitness levels needed – cut off times will apply at the discretion of the organisers
All efforts should be made by runners to car share, and park safely at all races.
Safety equipment required for races: compass, whistle, full body cover which should be brought to ALL races

Kander

I have been walking in the Wicklow mountains since I was 12, through scouts, college and personal time since. I remember Maulin (close to Enniskerry) when it used to be almost all peat and only a small (meter) wide track.

Do these MM tracks take from our walks, runs or biking? Imo yes but It annoys me more when I see people adding to the erosion walking at the edge and making matters worse.

We cant stop Joe blogs doing what they want to do or go but I am all for limiting the damage that is caused so we can all enjoy our unique country side for many years to come. The paths are a nessary evil imo, so I feel we just have to build a path :P and get over it.

I reguard to these paths encouraging people who might be un-prepared for the hills, well stupidity will sometimes win when it come to checking the forecast and knowing the terrain but we cant hold people hands with everything.

Peterx

Ban IMRA too, possibly a worse offender than mountain meitheal paths for encouraging people into the hills.
IMRA races have to be responsible for bringing many folk into places they would never otherwise set foot in.

Currently IMRA are doing serious work organising races all over our mountains across the island.

In practice, this stops hundreds of hill runners (and bikers and hill walkers to a lesser extent) from bashing up and down worn trails without a number. However, these paths become permanent and the mountain experience changes.
If races were blocked off, it would give the land a chance to recover.

These races also add to the numbers in the mountains. Would joe blogs really go up Mount Whatever if there wasn't a well organised race going up to the exposed summit?

By organising these races, are we not inviting unprepared people into the hills who risk serious injury if they get caught on an exposed ridge?
Anyone who has been on white hill (more a big spur) with a wind blowing knows exactly what I'm talking about.

IMRA are doing great work. Thousands of volunteer hours been put into the love of organised hillrunning, but is it the right way?
Are these races going to turn into the only rights of across the mountains in the future?

Races bring unprepared people into the hills.
Am I been over cautious?

Look at the Wednesday Lenister League, some open mountain races, people been out for over an hour in lovely sunny afternoons (avg times from Scarr, Brockagh, Seefingan, 63mins.) All we need is for the weather to turn nasty once and we (IMRA) could be in a whole world of sh1t.

Should IMRA introduce a standard kit like they do in the UK?
Should we have access paths in the mountains?
What I love about the mountains is that I can go between A and B and never run the same route twice, even if I wanted, not running along a stone track

sorry Colm - you'll feel much better once tonight is finished.

Slogger Jogger

I applaud the volunteer spirit behind the MM work but I can't say I'm a fan of the stone steps on various trails. Recent evidence I've see along Wicklow way relay section 2 has introduced stone work in 2 places, 1) on the steep bit beneath the hostel and 2) the last bit onto the Maulin drop down towards the river. The stone work has its place where its a 100% natural fit into its surroundings. Where the stone has had to be landed into an area which was previously wooded, clay or shaley then to me it detracts from the route.

That said, errosion is a growing problem on some of our mountains so its a difficult balance to manage. From an imra viewpoint I think we can do our bit by ensuring the race schedule changes year by year so we don't constantly run and rerun the same route. As we saw with Croagh Patrick this year a new route can bring freshness. No route is sacrosanct.

a148pro

On the assumption that the above posts are not complete levels, can I indicate that I love a track up a mountain, both when I'm running or hiking. Its immensely annoying (and arguably more envoronmentally damaging) making your own trail through heather / bog, making false turns etc. I would have thought it also far more dangerous if there weren't paths. People would be much more likely to get lost.

ocnoc

a148pro wrote: »

On the assumption that the above posts are not complete levels, can I indicate that I love a track up a mountain, both when I'm running or hiking. Its immensely annoying (and arguably more envoronmentally damaging) making your own trail through heather / bog, making false turns etc. I would have thought it also far more dangerous if there weren't paths. People would be much more likely to get lost.

If people are going to get lost, should they be up there in the first place?
You have to look after yourself in them there hills...

I am now of the opinion of feck it, if they want to get themselves killed, good luck to them.
In other news, CIMRA are recruiting again....

Scarr went off without a hitch.

ocnoc

Peterx wrote: »

you'll feel much better once tonight is finished.

I still think we should bring in mandatory kit regardless of the weather or race length. All it takes is one.

earlyevening

Missed the race tonight. Was even supposed to help so thought I'd be there early but my day went into meltdown and I only got to Roundwood at 7.30. Depressing turning the car around...Please dont tell me the race started late and I could have made it...

Sorry to have missed it - its usually a good one.

Roll on Carrauntoohil I guess. Maybe I'll be glad of this enforced taper..

jeffontour

earlyevening wrote: »

Missed the race tonight. Was even supposed to help so thought I'd be there early but my day went into meltdown and I only got to Roundwood at 7.30. Depressing turning the car around...

I had a very similar experience a few weeks back, it sucks!

I can't wait for Sunday. I had a 'mare of a run last year so hoping for better things this time round.

bazman

Why a need for mandatory kit? We're not in the Himalayas here!

We're all adults and can make our own choices. Why introduce nanny type culture? If IMRA introduce rules they take full responsibility. IMO it's better to simply warn athletes of the dangers and ensure responsibility is with the athlete ...

ocnoc

bazman wrote: »

Why a need for mandatory kit?

To keep you alive if something goes snap.

bazman wrote: »

We're not in the Himalayas here!

Sit on the edge of a mountain in a singlet for an hour in the pissing rain and wind, when mountain rescue finally find you, tell them your fine.

bazman wrote: »

We're all adults and can make our own choices.

You underestimate how stupid people can be.
In races, people take risks. Sometimes, you don't realise how stupid they are until you look back on it.

Some personal examples: Avonbeg in singlet, Carnawaddy LOC without rain gear.. those that were there will always remember...

But yes, I agree completely about personal responsibility, however, going up in unfavorable conditions in just a singlet is not take responsibility for your own safety.

nerraw1111

I'd leave the subject of mandatory kit to the race director on the night/day.

Everyone knows the risks, no need for hand holding. We need a New Zealand approach in Ireland. You have a brain, your decision, your fault.

Missed last night's race due to sprained ankle from last week. Is it just me who goes through the results of races I haven't ran and think "crap, if I ran last night, I would've come ??th.' Which leads to the opposite, thinking every race you do is harder than the one you missed.

ocnoc

Sure have em all unmarked is well
You took the wrong turn/got lost, you're fault....

CIMRA making a come back....

PositiveNegativ

bazman wrote: »

Why a need for mandatory kit? We're not in the Himalayas here!

We're all adults and can make our own choices. Why introduce nanny type culture? If IMRA introduce rules they take full responsibility. IMO it's better to simply warn athletes of the dangers and ensure responsibility is with the athlete ...

Much to disagree with.

If we were all adults the WWR Leg 7 finish would still be at the Derry river. Not 1km beyond because of inconsiderate parking.
If we were all adults the organisers of the Powercourt Uphill race would not have had to disqualify 12 runners for not carrying rain protection.

When IMRA takes 7euro from a runner to run a race it is contracting as a responsible body. So has to take reasonable steps to protect itself and the runner. Simple warnings don't stand up at coroner inquests.

If someone is immobilised during a race a light rain coat and space blanket is going to make sod all difference, they are going to need outside assistance. If they are merely slowed to a walk then a coat/space blanket will be a significant factor in their safe return to the finish. If everyone carries such then no one is disadvantaged.

The non-Himalayan nature of our hills is their very danger. They are routinely underestimated. Snipping at RDs doesn't help them reverse this underestimation among hill runners.

bazman

PositiveNegativ wrote: »

The non-Himalayan nature of our hills is their very danger. They are routinely underestimated. Snipping at RDs doesn't help them reverse this underestimation among hill runners.

I certainly wouldn't condone any snipping at any IMRA volunteer. It's reasonable to leave the decision up to the RD. I just wouldn't like to see mandatory kit being introduced for every championship race - it's overkill.

PositiveNegativ

bazman wrote: »

It's reasonable to leave the decision up to the RD.

Agreed, to a point.

bazman wrote: »

I just wouldn't like to see mandatory kit being introduced for every championship race - it's overkill.

Don't agree. The RD needs to be protected as well as the runner. What better way to help then have a standard list of equipment expected to be brought to every race which the RD (in consultation with IMRA ie committee member/safety officer) then reduces down to what's needed on the day. It's a system which has been working so far for LC2010 and LC2011. Everyone knows to bring kit, so they do. So far the various RD's have made appropriate calls and nobody has been turned away/disqualified over gear.

Thus far from my point of view nobody has been made to carry unnecessary gear in either year. I think all the other Leagues should follow suit.

ocnoc

Have a read.
And be thankful it was a day that you got down before the rain started.

They mightn't be high, but Wicklow can fcuk you up just as bad as any mountain range.

If they were safe, mountain rescue wouldn't have 23 call outs so far this year.
IMRA (and Orienteering Ireland) are dam lucky a serious accident hasn't occurred yet.

I hate saying this, but its only a matter of time before someone does get seriously injured.

bazman

I can see where you guys are coming from, but it's overkill.

I agree with having mandatory kit for some races - particularly the very long leinster championship races that have low volume of runners. Even on one of those races on that day I got injured there was absolutely no risk of hypothermia.

Having mandatory kit for all races would ruin the sport in my opinion.

If there as risks with a particular race, then the current process of potential kit requirements on the event page and RD making call on the day is acceptable IMO.

Would love someone to have to say to John Lenihan - sorry John, but you can't race without a jacket and a compass : )

ocnoc

bazman wrote: »

Would love someone to have to say to John Lenihan - sorry John, but you can't race without a jacket and a compass : )

Give me the opportunity and I would.
Something about him breaking his leg and struggling down a mountain almost dieing and what not comes to mind

I reckon he'd bring it

geld

Cnoc, I would agree with Bazman on this. I don't think that you can apply a one solution fits all here.

All Leinster League runs have never required kit except for (to best of my knowledge) the Powercourt Uphill race. These races are run in the summer months and having a mandatory kit is just not practical or necessary. How many extra volunteers would be needed to check if 200 runners carried it?

Leinster/Irish Championships and other similar races on the other hand should have required kit with the RD deciding on the day deciding if it is required.

I agree with the sentiment but I think the committee have got the right balance at the moment and if it is not broken then it doesn't need to be fixed.