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The Status Of Irish.
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Darren J. Prior wrote: »It would be great for Irish teaching if the Teacher Training College in Baile Bhuirne/Ballyvourney in Cork went ahead. The sod was turned on the development I believe over ten years ago.
I wasnt aware of it, i agree having teacher training in an Irish speaking enviornment would be of a huge benefit to the teachers in training ... but we are already training teachers in other venues .. so I think, whereever they are trained, it is important to ensure that they are all trained to deliver all parts of the cirriculum effectively.0 -
cyclopath2001 wrote: »I did quite well in French and liked it and its future potential (for me) so much, I signed up for various advanced classes and conversation at the Alliance Francaise. The langauge has helped me communicate more effectively and enjoy news, cinema and documentary media from outside the hiberno/anglo/saxon domain.
On t'crains pasYou guys are in denial, like banks and builders looking for more bailouts while ignoring reality and blaming others rather than accepting that your business case is deeply flawed.
You are the one who is in denail, your refuse to accept that contracted state employees are in breach of contract on an enormous scale and are receiving state money for it.
At least 10,000 teachers in ENGLISH speaking areas are in receipt of state funds while not teaching the curriculum they are contracted to teach. Pro rata that is a cost of 10,000 x €7k a year or €70m wasted by the state every year and every penny of it wasted outside Gaelscoileanna...which are actually doing what they are contracted to do. An equal scandal is that there are teachers in what are designated Gaeltacht schools taking an allowance and teaching through english, particularly east of Galway City. That fiddle should not only be stopped but the fraudulent overpayments should be clawed back off them. However this fraud is on a small scale compared to the national non compliance in English speaking areas.
Please learn some maths before you mention that river in Egypt again.If you don't have the customers, it does not matter how talented your sales people are. Compulsory Irish just insulates you from this.
Thanks for concatenating 2 random clichés into one even more meaningless one. One enriches the humourless saxon language in so many little ways by so doing
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So in the space of a few minutes you go from screaming "no-one" can speak it, generalising from yourself probably...to an admission that "people can speak it" , sheesh. How can one formulate a policy based on such a consistency of thought, one muses.gimme5minutes wrote: »Yes you are correct. People can speak it.
My only suggestion is that the waste and fraud in the primary education system in ENGLISH speaking Ireland is removed forthwith and that pay is docked for non performance . Then if Irish is removed from the curriculum at least we don't have to increase these fraudsters salary ever again.
The current system is like paying guards who don't bother enforcing the criminal law the same as those who do. We should not pay for what in many cases is a refusal to do the job.
And I get all these mad monoglots shrilly ranting about Irish at me when I simply want to save the state some money...pronto.The VAST majority cant even after spending 12 years learning it.
Neither can the same vast majority speak or write French, yet some the anti Irish loo laas even suggest we teach Mandarin to our population, half of which is barely literate in English never mind Irish.
Now where were we supposed to get these Mandarin teachers from ??, jeez I have no idea
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Same place we get every teacher Pinky, arts students!Sponge Bob wrote: »Now where were we supposed to get these Mandarin teachers from ??, jeez I have no idea0 -
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http://www.gaeltachttravel.com/gaeltacht-regions/statistics-on-the-gaeltacht-and-the-irish-language/
An Irish speaker is defined as a person who claims that they can speak Irish, but who do not necessarily use it in their daily life.(A.K.A A romanticist - codding yourself that you can speak it)
According to census figures from 2002, released by Central Statistics Office of Ireland (CSO, cso.ie), on the night of Sunday, 28 April 2002, there was 1,570,894 Irish speakers in the country as opposed to 2,180,101 Non-Irish speakers. An Irish speaker is defined as a person who claims that they can speak Irish, but who do not necessarily use it in their daily life. The largest number of Irish speakers live in Leinster (511,639), followed by Munster (352,177), Connacht (162,680) and the three counties of Ulster which are in the Republic (69,334). However the percentage of Irish speakers is the lowest in Leinster (38.2%), the highest in Connacht and Munster (48.5% and 46.8% respectively).
The democratic majority of people in every Provence in Ireland have said on a census form that they cannot speak Irish.
Not even mass immigration can hide the fact that compulsory forcefeeding is not working.
These figures quite clearly proves that once the mandatory forcefeeding is complete, the vast majority abandon the language.Surprisingly the largest percentage of people with ability to speak Irish is in the age groups between 10 and 24 years of age (10-14 years: 68.7%; 15- 19 years: 66.3%; 20-24 years: 51.2%), probably because of the obligatory teaching of Irish in schools.
It even suggests the majority of the adult population despise the language!0 -
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Dannyboy83 wrote: »Are you having me on?
2.3k will not be sitting an exam.
10% of people have received an exemption from learning the language entirely (i.e. will not even learn the language, not to mind sit an exam)
LMAO.
Ah come off it, in fairness, I'm giving you statistical facts and you are plucking your own variables/assumptions out of thin air (based on incorrect assumptions) in order to misrepresent the outcome.:pac:
Wrong.
If there are 55,000 pupils and more than 5,500 have requested an exemption from learning Irish, then that is more than 10%
It says plain as day that the number not sitting the exam is 2297, Now how that makes 10% of 55400 I dont know,
What dose the number 5818 relate to? Is that the Figure exempt over 2 ears? If so then it is wrong to claim that 10% are not doing the Irish for LC as the % is clearly 4.1Even more ridiculous is that you have now totally changed position.
You intially argued that giving a choice undeniably causes uptake to plummet, yet you are now claiming a completely different outcome in order to arrive at the result you desire.
This is utterly irrational.
What? I am pointing out a flaw in the Claim of 10% that was put forward.You are no longer even debating the subject, you have now resorted to misrepresenting the truth in spite of the facts I have provided at your request.
The article you put forward said that there will be 2297 students not sitting the Irish exam this year true? That is not 10% of 55400:rolleyes:The fact remains - mandatory forcefeeiding is not working & many pupils are not open to learning the language.
Prove this is wrong, with evidence.
Sort out your own 'evidience' first.:rolleyes:I asked them if they enjoy learning Irish in school, answer was No.
Put forward my ideas about learning it - change focus more to spoken and involving more current subject matter - answer was still No.
Asked if it was optional, would they would swap it from something else, answer was yes - no two answers were the same, but all wanted to swap for something else.
I asked if there was some other subject they hate, would like to swap - some of the girls said Honours Maths, the lads said it's more a case of wanting to do other subjects like woodwork too.
Im not surprised, I have said that the way Irish is tought now turns people off Irish, Why do you think I want Irish to be reformed?OK, how about I call round and force your kids to learn Judeo-Crimean Tatar language everyday? On the condition that they cannot learn Irish at all.
This is the opportunity cost.
What?It'll put a few handy quid in my back pocket and they will have lost their opportunity to learn Irish as you desire for them, sound fair?.
?But we are not talking about children, are we?
We're talking about Secondary school students - in the specific case where they do not wish to learn a language and it is forced into them against their will - as show by facts from the department of education.
And as happens the length and breadth of this country every school day for the last 80 odd years, so much so that the incoming MoE wishes to change the system.
But you are arguing against this based solely on your opinion, which is biased and devoid of facts to support it.
Im sorry but you are making a lot of assumptions there.That statement proves just how disconnected from reality you are.
You really have no idea how pupils feel about the compulsory forcefeeding of Irish Language by the Irish Language Taliban.
Irish language Taliban Grow up:rolleyes:
There is no need to be confrontational and there is no need for name-calling.
Now, I am well aware that students do not Like Irish. The point I am making is that students dont dislike Irish Because it is compulsory. They dislike Irish because of its poor curriculum.Some of the statements throughout this thread propose that we conduct all education in Irish, that Hiberno-English speakers are doing something wrong by not speaking Irish.
Firstly, You are the one coming to that conclusion, I have never said such a thing so stop trying to misrepresent me.
Secondaly, I am not the one who has argued for an all Irish education system.Whatever happened to liberty?
What ever happned to proportion?
Stop with the ott arguments, Liberty? We are not talking about some program of forced cultural indoctrination imposed on the population against their will.
We are talking about a subject in school.No.
You are arguing for reform of the curriculum.
You are not in favour of reforming the ridiculous oppression of students.
What oppresion? We are talking about a school subject like English and maths.Prove it.
English is compulsory, Students dont hate English even though its compulsory therfore students seam not to hate something just because its compulsory so there must be some other factor, In fact there is, Irish has a very poor curriculum, that must be the other factor that is turning student off.Now you are completely contradicting yourself.
Myself, Cyclopath and several others put this argument to you several pages ago and you claimed there were numerous employment opportunities and chances to use it.
Based on the CSO figures I'm looking at, there are only 69k fluent speakers in the entire country. That's less that the amount of fluent Polish Speakers in Ireland!
There are employment opportunities. There is a list of them. Dose that = Opportunities to use Irish for people not In those jobs? No.Clutching at straws.
What reason do you propose?
Full frontal lobotomy?
For the entire 2.3 million people who do not speak it?
Maybe they all got exemptions?
Or maybe they just didn't go to school at all?
Or, Maybe, And this may sound crazy to you so bear with me, There is a poor curriculum which faild to teach much Irish in the first place and limited oppertunities for use ment they lost the little they had through lack of use.Occam's razor says the cause is rejection.
The simplest explanation is that there is a poor curriculum for Irish in School(The dogs in the street know this) which fails to teach Irish to students regardless of their Interest.2.3 million people cannot speak it after 8-12 years schooling!?
Damn rite the curriculum ain't working!!!
And more importantly, making it compulsory hasn't change that.
Why would making something compulsory affect its curriculum? They are two separate things.
The only way to make the curriculum work is to reform it, Making it optional or leaving it compulsory wont affect the curriculum one bit.
Now some advice. If you are going to claim someone is contradicting themselves you need to be right.
And if you are going to come to a conclusion on an issue you need to look at other possible explanations other than the one you want/expect.;)0 -
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