How to respond to a flasher

Otis Driftwood

jujibee wrote: »

Sorry if I took you up wrong. Your post seemed to imply that the video from Japan with the women who had been attacked was a paid video. I was just stating that this happens very frequently so we can never assume (bar the women joining in the fun) that it was something that the women consented to.

Yer alright,I probably could have been a bit clearer anyway,I just ment that with the amount of random stuff that originates from Japan what Liah mentioned could be a staged clip.No harm done anyway.:)

Feeona

LittleBook wrote: »

Any suggestions ladies as to why reporting the incident seems/seemed to be the last thing on our minds (unless children may be at risk). It certainly never even dawned on me to do so, the pointing and laughing thing was/is considered the way to go but I don't know why.

Was pointing and laughing the reaction recommended to me as a child?

Or do I assume it's a waste of my time trying to report it?

Do I think "no big deal, if that's the worst thing that ever happens to me, I'll be grand"?

And if it's "no big deal", is that because I'm inured to it? Or is it simply that, in the greater scheme of things, it just isn't a big enough deal (in my mind) to involve the police?

[Faith, this thread must be gold for your thesis ]

I posted in a thread in Humanities before talking about experiences most women go through (unwillingly) with older men before they've even reached their late teens. I likened it to an unspoken rite of passage. I think flashing is part of that unspoken rite. As a result, it becomes part of the background noise, almost like 'Oh this again :rolleyes:'.

Let me just say that it is the action of just a few men, and decent men would be (and have been!) outraged and disgusted to know that a few are letting the side down.

Regarding the video that started this thread, I can totally relate to the obvious anger and frustration the woman is feeling.

duracell_bunny

[QUOTE= That's a bit of a defeatest attitude in all fairness and, as someone who knows more than a few Gardaí, I'd have to say that they would generally take reports of such behaviour very seriously. [/QUOTE]

Four of my friends are Gardai - three male and one female. The subject came up one night and all three males said that if a women was accusing someone of sexual harrassment or rape they would always take her to be a lier until proved otherwise. The female Garda says that she always knows instantly when the women comes in to make the allegation cos she herself was raped. To be honest I find that extremely disturbing. .

ger vallely

When I lived in rural Holland, myself and my friend were flashed an abnormal amount of times. We used just laugh and go on our way. It was so wierd though, I just don't get it, what do men get out of doing it? i've never been flashed here in Ireland, thankfully. The Dutch long distance lorry drivers seem to all be at it!

28064212

duracell_bunny wrote: »

Four of my friends are Gardai - three male and one female. The subject came up one night and all three males said that if a women was accusing someone of sexual harrassment or rape they would always take her to be a lier until proved otherwise. The female Garda says that she always knows instantly when the women comes in to make the allegation cos she herself was raped. To be honest I find that extremely disturbing.

To be honest, both attitudes are extremely disturbing. It is not part of a Gardaí's job to be making judgements like that on either side

cynder

I just spotted this thread and it reminds me of something that happened to me about 8 years ago,

I was in Ennis (on the mill road) and i went into a international phone place (whatever it was called) and made a phone call to my mom, i went there at least twice a week to phone my mom in the uk and normally i had my daughter with me (age 2). this time i was on my own and no one was in there except me and the guy behind the counter.

I went to pay, and it occurred to me he was only using one had i looked down to where the other one was and he was jacking off and asked if i wanted to help, i gave him the money didn't wait for change and left. i told my boyfriend and he burst out laughing. i never went back there again, it really creeped me out. I thought about reporting the guy but who would believe me? sure they could do swabs to see if any bodily fluids were around. I put the image ( a dark brown circumcised penis head looking at me from behind the counter)to the back of my head and avoided the place. Feck it i can picture it perfecly when i think about it even after 8 years.

LegacyUser

I don't think any woman knows how she would react until it actually happens to her.



I had a similiar, if not worse, experience as the woman in the video. I was on a metro in a european country and it was rush hour so the carriage was packed like sardines. A well-dressed man pushed his way onto the train right next to me and then the door closed. He was right up next to me and then I felt something on my leg (I was wearing shorts!), I looked down and I never got such a shock in my life when I saw him rubbing his penis on my leg. When he realised that I saw what he was doing, he pushed it back into his fly and then he put his hand in his pocket and he continued to rub himself through his pocket. I was absolutely frozen in fear and shock. I physically couldn't speak, I tried to push away from him but all I managed to do was push up against two old women behind me and they started to give out to me for pushing them. I think they knew by my face then that all was not well and they started shouting abuse at the man. My friend who was a little further back in the carriage was asking me 'what's wrong, what's wrong?' but I couldn't speak at all, I swear the saying 'frozen in fear' exists for a reason. Eventually the train stopped, this must all have happened within 1-2 minutes but it felt like forever. The guy jumped off the train and got lost in the crowd. My friend ran up to me and all I could do was burst into tears. It took me a while to tell her what had actually happened. Looking back it was a horrific experience. On my return home I told a few guy friends what had happened and their reaction was to start laughing, it kind of annoyed me that they would react like that but looking back I think it was more of a nervous reaction on their part

Whispered

Four of my friends are Gardai - three male and one female. The subject came up one night and all three males said that if a women was accusing someone of sexual harrassment or rape they would always take her to be a lier until proved otherwise. The female Garda says that she always knows instantly when the women comes in to make the allegation cos she herself was raped.

I have a friend who used to be a taxi driver - one night he picked up a lady outside a club. When she got into the car she was obviously distressed, crying etc. He asked where she wanted to go, she gave the address. He started driving and the girl got even more hysterical, so he asked did she want to go the the hospital/police station, she told him to "shut the f**k up and drive" like she "is paying him to do".

So he continued in silence, got to the house and asked for the fare. She said she wasn't paying as he had collected her from a function where everything was covered by the job. He advised her that if she didn't pay he would go to the police station and give her address. So she sat back into the car and said "go on then". So he drove to the station with the woman (now not crying) in the back.

Got to the station, woman jumped from the car and ran in, he walked in behind her and she started screaming and crying again. A woman guard walked up to her and said "What did he do to you", the woman, sobbing was brought into another room while my friend explained to the guard behind the counter what had actually happened. He was asked to wait. The womans parents were called and arrived at the station shortly after.

When the parents arrived, the woman accused my friend of locking her into the car, when she offered him a 50, punched her in the face then drove to the station. When my friend heard this, he called his brother who is a guard, and who came to the station. To be honest I don't remember if he went home that night and was contacted the next day, or if he stayed overnight. I do know that later in the night, the woman had a fit, attacked a guard, it took 3 men to hold her down. She was brought to the hospital and had her stomach pumped.

A few days later she admitted that she had lied about the assault because she couldn't explain her hysteria to her father (drug induced). So she lied about the taxi driver. Had she not admitted to the lie, a mans life would have been in ruins. The fact that the car he was driving didn't have central locking (so he could not have locked her into the car) meant nothing to the guards who just took this womans word. Granted had it gone further, nothing may have come from it, but that evening he was treated like he was guilty.

I do think more needs to be done to protect women from our terrible systems, but more needs to be done to protect EVERYONE. To walk into a garda station and be asked "what did he do to you" is a disgrace. As far as I am concerned that guard hs a lot to answer for in the following story. Obviously putting the idea into the girls head by pushing to hear what "he had done" before any accusation was made.

Our legal system is a disgrace - but it's not solely towards women - men are affected by it too.

(tl;dr? - women can and do make false accusations and their word is often believed over the word of a man.)

fatmammycat

Actually I can't be bothered with explaining to another woman how unhelpful it is to be reminded that women are human.

Whispered

fatmammycat wrote: »

Actually I can't be bothered with explaining to another woman how unhelpful it is to be reminded that women are human.

My post was directly related to the post which I quoted - where it was said that the guards the poster knows always believe the woman is lying until proved otherwise. I was making the point that this is not always the case and that the law can let you down no matter your gender.

Actually, thinking about it, I know one woman who falsly accused rape and later admitted it, and a woman who accused her own father of sexual abuse then, drunk one night, admitted she said it because she balmed him on her mothers death. In both cases, people automatically believed the woman (including me)

There should never be a case where one persons word is believed over anothers.

The law needs to protect everyone, not just the women who have been sexually assaulted. ( I have been a victim of that myself btw so I'm not belittling it in any way)

But nice use of sarcasm

fatmammycat

Whatever, I just think it is unhelpful to bring up an entire post on how women can be wrong too on a thread about how some men casually abuse women on a regular basis. Most of us are already aware the law needs to protect everyone.

Whispered

Except for the fact that many of the posts here say how women are usually not believed (including by the guards) when my experience is the exact opposite of that.

People should not fear reporting assaults because, as far as my expereince tells me, you will not be seen as a liar.

fatmammycat

Yes, your experience. More than one of us has found that this is not the case. This thread was about flashers and women standing up to them, and why a lot of women don't feel they are taken seriously when they do report this behaviour. Your post about how men can be also be falsely accused of wrong doing- in my view- is misplaced.

Whispered

fatmammycat wrote: »

Yes, your experience. More than one of us has found that this is not the case.

So because my experience is different to yours I shouldn't post it?

My point is, imagine someone reading this and thinking "why bother, look at all these women saying that they were not believed". I think it's important to point out that this is not always the case, people are often believed too, even people who are not being truthful, so if you have something to report, don't fear being seen as a liar.

The thread was started about flashers, and developed into how women who report and respond to sexual assault are treated by the law and seen by other people. As such I feel my post is not misplaced. However if it is, please report it and have it removed.

mariaalice

I know it seems a funny topic but its very frighting when it happens to you....i was with my oldest daughter at the time and she was only a toddler and it was on a quite road with no one around he was at the side of the road standing in the gap of a wall he had nothing on except a jacket...it was fairly near my house so i ran home my daughter keep saying why has that man no pants on!!...i phoned my mother because i was upset who just said the dirty fecker doing something like that...anyone i told though it was funny but i got a fright and for a long time after i didn't like walking on quite roads.

Nevyn

Thats the thing, how it impacts on people, esp when we are young, we remember, we don't forget and it changes how we react to the world but it is very rarely spoken about.

alexa5x5

When I was about 7/8 a new family moved into a house down the road from me. They had a son (about 11/12) that was a bit strange. Well shortly after moving in; whenever I was passing there house the boy would flash me from the upstairs of the house. At first I (being a kid) laughed it off and ran away but as it continued I became more freaked out by it. He obviously wasn’t just messing around. I must of known even at that young age and not knowing anything about sex that it was wrong in some way. I was too embarrassed to tell my Mum and this continued until the family left a couple of years latter.
If he was that messed up then at 11/12 WTF is he like now. :eek:

Ric0shay

hmmm.just to throw this is there so its not all about women getting the abuse.About two years ago while myself and a mate were returning from a night at a party in limerick.It was about 5 in the morning and we were stolling home and stopping every now and again and chatting I turn to my mate and say" Theres a guy whos been following us hiding behind a wheelie bin up the road" my mate says im pissed and theres noone there.So I say "ok well walk down to the next building and wait just around the cornor "As soon as we turn the cornor we here foot steps running and as were just waiting around the cornor this guy runs straight into me.Now im 6"4 and over 14stone.So standing in front of me is a man in his late 30s early 40s and I ask him why hes following us and he he babbles something about been really pissed and thought we were someone else.Now I was pissed and so was my mate but I know for a fact this guy wasnt.So I took the piss out of him for been such a werido for abit and we walked on.I didnt live far from where we met him so as we were going in the gate to my house, we turned around and 50-60m down the road was this guy pretending to stumble around on the opposite side of the road and slowly come passed us.So now im were getting a little annoyed with him so he moves up from us slightly,I look away and then look back and this guy takes out hes lad and starts to crack one off.Not a bother in the world while looking straight at us.I wasnt sure at first because if a car passed hed turn and face the wall but then hes pants slightly dropped.I was amazed that he was having an ole one-two while looking at two men.I had a bottle of beer that I threw at him and it smashed off the wall and he didnt stop it wasnt until I ran at him he ran off.My misses heard all the shouting and lost the plot because I worked away and our son was just born and call the cops.It took them half an hour to call to the house and while i was cleaning up the glass they said "I hope you didnt hit him with that bottle".........sound lads.Nothing more was done about it,they never came back for statements or anything.

PrincessLola

That video is legit guys, was on the American news;
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/11/22/subway-flasher_n_787117.html

http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/story?section=news/local/new_york&id=7808543

Valdivia has now pleaded guilty to forcible touching in this case and a more recent case in October. He was sentenced to 4 months behind bars

Apparently the guy got arrested. Also the other passengers said he was flashing her.
If anyone touched me/ flashed me or assaulted on public transport I'd yell and tell them to fck off loudly, if you stay silent the perverts just think they can get away with it.

downthemiddle

As my granny said when she was flashed " put that away son, I've powdered bigger".

PopUp

There's some interesting (but unbelievably depressing) stuff about flashing here on Jezebel. Flashers have their own version of boards.

A lot of people are saying they laugh it off, or start shouting and drawing attention to the flasher, which would probably be my own reaction these days. But when I was just a bit younger (and I'm only 25 now) I sometimes just didn't have the confidence/presence of mind/experience to do that. So I'm not surprised they'd give the advice

No white women over the age of 25

PrincessLola

My God:eek:. I read the Jezebel article. These men are sick. :mad: It just infuriates me that they pick on the most vulnerable women to flash (elderly/ teenagers/ ethnic minorities) because they think they can get away with it. If you read some of their posts they seem to know the risk and they don't want to get caught, its like they enjoy intimidating them. So if you ask me telling them loudly to fck off is their worst fear, it takes away their power.;)

Setun

PopUp wrote: »

There's some interesting (but unbelievably depressing) stuff about flashing here on Jezebel. Flashers have their own version of boards.

A lot of people are saying they laugh it off, or start shouting and drawing attention to the flasher, which would probably be my own reaction these days. But when I was just a bit younger (and I'm only 25 now) I sometimes just didn't have the confidence/presence of mind/experience to do that. So I'm not surprised they'd give the advice

I doesn't surprise me that people like this have a forum - the internet welcomes all, for better or worse

To be honest, I cannot begin to understand how anybody could consider this kind of behaviour acceptable! It's sad to hear stories like this - the idiotic and pathetic actions of the perpetrator aside, I also know it does nothing to contradict the popular notion that men are predatory in how they understand sexuality. Needless to say it's far from a majority of men who actively force themselves onto women - be it verbally or physically.

I found this a bit surprising though on their site:

ihollaback wrote:

While a woman making unsolicited sexual remarks to a man is certainly conceivable, the power dynamics of such an encounter are very different in a society where women comprise a historically subordinated group. Hollaback! is a project dedicated to combating a particular form of violence that designates subordinated groups (such as women and LGBTQ folks, for example) as targets in public spaces or otherwise vulnerable to unsolicited, nonconsensual encounters with strangers. It is thus not a forum for reporting other unpleasantries.

Surely in the age of post-feminism we can respect that both genders can be made feel uncomfortable in public and feel the need to raise general awareness? Personally I haven't experienced any form of street harassment (not that I know of anyway, I'm normally miles away when I'm wandering down the street ) and certainly haven't noticed anything as sinister as the woman in the now-infamous youtube clip, but I think it's disappointing to presume that men don't feel threatened as they are not historically subordinated?

I've been following the anti-street harassment stories a lot recently as I just couldn't believe how common it is - I'm glad to see ihollaback getting the attention it deserves. For any board-users in London/UK, be sure to check out http://lashcampaign.org/ too, seems to be gaining a lot of attention as of late

Scarinae

That forum for flashers is incredibly creepy

Daddio, I take your point that both genders can be made to feel uncomfortable. However, it seems that a lot of flashers really get off on intimidating women, you don't hear of many men being flashed in the same way (probably because they would deck the flasher) Much as it annoys me, most men are scarily strong compared to me, and I am not weak for a girl. This makes us more vulnerable in a lot of ways.

Setun

True - and having talked to my OH about the subject she's reminded me of some genuinely disgraceful gestures or comments made about her when she's walking down the street on her own. It's an infrequent occurrence thankfully, but after such an incident I know that I would be very self-conscious walking around alone if I was her.

It's fantastic to see the london anti-street harassment campaign and ihollaback getting so much attention - hopefully it reaches the place in the mainstream where it will let such perpetrators of street harassment know that their behaviour is far beyond being simply "unnacceptable". I just think that maybe it's a bit silly to disallow men from talking about their own experiences (not that there would be anywhere near as much presumably) considering that they're already quite welcoming to men in terms of submitting documentation of female victims. Surely they should just focus on raising awareness about the fact that there are lunatics out there making people feel incredibly uncomfortable as they go about their business, irrespective of the gender of the victim?

Dr.Sanchez

PrincessLola wrote: »

If anyone touched me/ flashed me or assaulted on public transport I'd yell and tell them to fck off loudly, if you stay silent the perverts just think they can get away with it.

Hah!!... I would grab them by the balls and rip them off!

SheRa

PrincessLola wrote: »

So if you ask me telling them loudly to fck off is their worst fear, it takes away their power.;)

Mmmm.

Its all well and good saying that, but what if (a) you are frozen with shock and fear and cannot physically say anything or (b) there is no-one else around and you are more concerned with getting away to somewhere safe than shouting at them?

Its not always easy to do what seems obivous in hindsight.

citytillidie

Thaedydal wrote: »

It if had a penis on view it would not be openingly viewable on youtube.

I am not sure about that youtube seems to be very lax on male nudity, a little experiment

Two youtube searches

Search results for

• female strippers

About 955 results

Search results for

• male strippers

About 2,590 results

Fair enough the guy did do it and its good he was caught but living in Montreal and the subway is packed at rush hour you are going to be bump into people when the train moves. One morning I managed to get a seat as I am at the 1st stop still tired so I shut my eyes and when i opened them again I had a woman standing right in front of me who may have been coming back from an all night club as everything was on show.

PrincessLola

SheRa wrote: »

Mmmm.

Its all well and good saying that, but what if (a) you are frozen with shock and fear and cannot physically say anything or (b) there is no-one else around and you are more concerned with getting away to somewhere safe than shouting at them?

Its not always easy to do what seems obivous in hindsight.

Totally agree, I meant if he flashes you in public.:) Otherwise you'd get the fck out of there.
And I know how it feels to freeze up, I've never been flashed but when I was thirteen years old a man (must have been in his mid-twenties) tried to feel me up at a bus stop on a sturday morning. Now I know some thirteen year olds look older but I was a late bloomer and completly flat-chested and such so he must have known I was a kid. I was too scared to scream so I just ran away and chose to walk home instead .