How to respond to a flasher

Scarinae

It looks like this flasher got more than he bargained for when he pressed himself up against this woman with his penis out on a non-crowded New York subway (he is covering it with a bag in the video)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WI5AH8YH714

He got what he deserved imo, trying to sexually intimidate people is not on and he deserved to be humiliated.

Has anyone here ever been flashed? How did you react? Thankfully I haven't, although there were a lot of flashings in some fields near my home when I was about eight... I didn't understand at the time why my mum didn't want me going there by myself. The guy was caught, thankfully

TitoPuente

Fishie wrote: »

He got what he deserved imo

Either your man was a flasher/sexual abuser or she's a delusional psycho. Difficult to tell without any real evidence.

Jenneke87

When pressing up against you, place foot firmly between his legs...

When flashing in public, plain ignore and report the idiot at the nearest Gardai station.....

That be all....

Nevyn

TitoPuente wrote: »

Either your man was a flasher/sexual abuser or she's a delusional psycho. Difficult to tell without any real evidence.

Seriously?

So you think it's more likely sh'e a psycho because she yelled out rather then he's a perv. Classic victim blaming, way to go, you heard it ladies don't call out people who are sexually harassing you cos people will think your mentally unbalanced just suffer in s licence so the perv can do it to other women.

Nevyn

http://www.ihollaback.org

Hollaback! is a movement dedicated to ending street harassment using mobile technology. Street harassment is one of the most pervasive forms of gender-based violence and one of the least legislated against. Comments from “You’d look good on me” to groping, flashing and assault are a daily, global reality for women and LGBTQ individuals. But it is rarely reported, and it’s culturally accepted as ‘the price you pay’ for being a woman or for being gay. At Hollaback!, we don’t buy it.

We believe that everyone has a right to feel safe and confident without being objectified. Sexual harassment is a gateway crime that creates a cultural environment that makes gender-based violence OK. There exists a clear legal framework to reproach sexual harassment and abuse in the home and at work, but when it comes to the streets—all bets are off. This gap isn’t because street harassment hurts any less, it’s because there hasn’t been a solution. Until now. The explosion of mobile technology has given us an unprecedented opportunity to end street harassment—and with it, the opportunity to take on one of the final new frontiers for women’s rights around the word.

By collecting women and LGBTQ folks’ stories and pictures in a safe and share-able way with our soon-to-launch mobile phone applications, Hollaback! is creating a crowd-sourced initiative to end street harassment. Hollaback! breaks the silence that has perpetuated sexual violence internationally, asserts that any and all gender-based violence is unacceptable, and creates a world where we have an option—and, more importantly—a response.

TitoPuente

Thaedydal wrote: »

Seriously?

So you think it's more likely sh'e a psycho because she yelled out rather then he's a perv. Classic victim blaming, way to go, you heard it ladies don't call out people who are sexually harassing you cos people will think your mentally unbalanced just suffer in s licence so the perv can do it to other women.

What? I don't think anything is more likely than anything else. I'm not blaming anyone. I'm simply saying what I see in that video is a woman throwing a fit and a man standing beside her - not a penis in sight. What do you see?

Nevyn

It if had a penis on view it would not be openingly viewable on youtube.

Wolfe Tone

Why would you even flash yourself at a woman in the first place?

TitoPuente

Thaedydal wrote: »

It if had a penis on view it would not be openingly viewable on youtube.

Right. So nobody knows what actually happened here. All we see is a woman going spare and making accusations at a guy. He could be guilty of being a scumbag, she could just be nuts. The truth is that nobody knows. No you, not me, nobody except screaming woman and penis man... and possibly someone else who saw penis man's penis.

That hardly constitutes 'victim blaming' - it's just that the evidence presented (or lack thereof) wouldn't stand up (no more puns, I promise) in a court of law.

Nevyn

Why do you think she'd lie?
Why can't you accept the video as is presented?

If you mother/partner/sister/daughter told you this happened to her would you believe her or would you ask her for a picture?

rannerap

me and my friend got flashed once down neer fibbers parnell street when we were walking to a friends house, we just screamed and ran away:o

TitoPuente

Thaedydal wrote: »

Why do you think she'd lie?

Why would you think he'd pull his penis out?

Thaedydal wrote: »

Why can't you accept the video as is presented?

I do. I don't see a penis.

Thaedydal wrote: »

If you mother/partner/sister/daughter told you this happened to her would you believe her or would you ask her for a picture?

If your father/boyfriend/brother/son told you that they were accused of this would you believe them or would you ask for proof of their innocence?

I'm not trying to be a contrary pain in the neck - I'm just saying that I didn't see the guy's penis or see the guy rubbing off her.

Ickle Magoo

If accused of flashing, is the rational thing to clutch your bag to your crotch and look around sheepishly? If he hadn't done anything wouldn't he be bag down, hands in the air demanding to know what she was going on about? I notice there are more than one persons filming as well.

I had a guy flash me when I was a student...I was crossing a parkway after a night out and I just pointed and laughed. He looked a bit annoyed. Not sure what he expected, no man's going to look their best in November in Scotland. :pac:

Wibbs

Lets back off of the cross examination please.

Regardless of the Cold case style examination of the video, this is a pretty common problem for women, especially on public transport. The Japanese have an epidemic of it. Its a fetish for them. Lots of women get flashed in their lives. I suspect a large chunk of the Ladies here have some experience of it.

Nevyn

Yep got ot love how men will put themselves in the accused shoes and go but but but.
Women's experience of the world teaches use are men out there who do this to us and who get away with due to men not believing it happens and throwing out the well worn line of she must be nuts.

Fishie wrote: »

Has anyone here ever been flashed? How did you react? Thankfully I haven't, although there were a lot of flashings in some fields near my home when I was about eight... I didn't understand at the time why my mum didn't want me going there by myself. The guy was caught, thankfully

I raise a fuss and yell, I always have and I don't care if on lookers who don't see a penis or the person assulating me think I am nuts, if it gets the creep away from me and makes them think twice before doing it to another women then it's worth it.
I would rather make a fuss then feel guilty later that I did nothing and let it happen to me.


http://feministing.com/2010/11/23/subway-flasher-gets-hollabackd/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

Subway flasher gets Hollaback’d
By Jos | Published: November 23, 2010

Via Hollaback comes this video of a woman confronting a man who had his penis out, in a condom, and was pressing up against her on an NYC train.

The woman in this video seriously rocks! She turns the tables on her harasser, making it clear she sees what he’s doing, sharing that with the whole train car, and insisting he will be coming with her to see the police. The video’s also a great example of using technology as a tool to fight harassment, as a group of people start taking video and photos of the flasher in question. And I think it’s a testament to the success of programs like Hollaback – I don’t know what inspired this particular woman to stand up to her harasser, but it’s certainly heartening to know this action is part of a larger movement of people who won’t accept this kind of behavior any more.

Ickle Magoo

Right, this is The ladies lounge..

As per the forum charter...

This forum is for the discussion of topics from a woman's point of view.
We do welcome male input, but do bear in mind that this forum is firstly for the women of boards to have their say, from their point of view.

If you can't post in the spirit of the forum, don't post at all.

liah

There's a seriously disturbing video floating around out there on the internet from Japan featuring a young man and his friend with a videocamera running around and actually ejaculating onto unsuspecting women, then laughing and running away.

Surprisingly, the most horrifying bit about it to me wasn't even the actual (degrading, vile, pathetic) act itself but how the women reacted to it-- or rather, didn't. They appeared stunned for a moment, but mostly did not react other than to clean themselves up and move along.

But that's Japan, and from my perspective it's a pretty messed up place when it comes to sex and women. It's also an extreme on the flasher scale. Just thought it was interesting, in a very sad way.

mcmoustache

I was expecting a bit more from the video, to be honest. I was kinda hoping for a taser to the balls or something or some form of comical violence.

Seriously, though, making a scene is probably the best thing to do. I don't know much about the mental state of flashers but I doubt they like the exposure (pardon the pun).

I wonder what the best response would be in a less crowded area though? Like an empty luas carriage. Pull the chord?

28064212

Thaedydal wrote: »

http://www.ihollaback.org

Woah, hang on, there is a major problem with that organisation. I am all for women standing up for themselves, I am all for proper punishments being handed down, and I am all for campaigns which raise awareness about the fact that this sort of thing happens.

I am not ok with a site that publishes people's photos/videos on the back of an anonymous claim that the person pictured are sex offenders. That is a completely irresponsible approach. If there's evidence that a crime has been committed, you bring it to the authorities. An organisation like Hollaback has a great role to play in helping people bring cases to the police and in providing support and information. It does not have the right to judge people guilty without a trial

Faith

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

Why would you even flash yourself at a woman in the first place?

It's generally a sexual compulsion. They get the same gratification from it that the average person would get from masturbation or sexual intercourse. It's along the same principles as having sex in a public place with the chance of getting caught.

I've never been flashed, but there was an epidemic of it when I was in 6th year. Also it's very common on the route from the main UCC campus to my campus. She was right to shout at him. It's often about control and she didn't let him have control of the situation by looking away and ignoring it. Drawing attention to it and humiliating him was a fairly solid tactic.

My thesis is concerned with things like flashing, so I always joke that if I was flashed, I'd stop and attempt to interview the guy about why he's doing it :P.

Ectoplasm

Where I went to school part of the grounds backed onto a public park. Over the years there were a number of flashers who would hang about and seemed to target the pupils but it was usually solved by the approach of a teacher. When I was in 6th year though, there was a guy who was very persistent and was turning up every few days.

I encountered this guy on a couple of occasions - never alone though. We used to just laugh and tell him to put it away but there was girls of 11 and 12 who were very upset by it. It was solved when a garda posed as a student and he got arrested.

Leelaa22

Point and laugh at the size. Just keep pointing and laughing

Feeona

Leelaa22 wrote: »

Point and laugh at the size. Just keep pointing and laughing

This. And/or make a scene!

Wolfe Tone

Faith wrote: »

It's generally a sexual compulsion. They get the same gratification from it that the average person would get from masturbation or sexual intercourse. It's along the same principles as having sex in a public place with the chance of getting caught.

Thats fairly fecked up. Would making a scene and drawing attention to it not play into the pervs hands? Would he not like that?

i had a friend who was flashed once she is glaswegian ( this has to be said with that accent) she said aye that looks like a willy only wayyyy smaller , didnt stop walking either

Otis Driftwood

liah wrote: »

There's a seriously disturbing video floating around out there on the internet from Japan featuring a young man and his friend with a videocamera running around and actually ejaculating onto unsuspecting women, then laughing and running away.
Surprisingly, the most horrifying bit about it to me wasn't even the actual (degrading, vile, pathetic) act itself but how the women reacted to it-- or rather, didn't. They appeared stunned for a moment, but mostly did not react other than to clean themselves up and move along.
But that's Japan, and from my perspective it's a pretty messed up place when it comes to sex and women. It's also an extreme on the flasher scale. Just thought it was interesting, in a very sad way.

A bit OT but Id reckon those women wernt as unsuspecting as you think.Japan is a very strange country when it comes to sex,particularly voyeristic fetishes like you mentioned or things like guys walking around with mini cameras on their feet videoing up "unsuspecting" womens skirts.I read in Bizarre a few years ago that Japan is the leading producer of rape fetish movies.I also read in possibly the same issue that there was/is an escort agency that specialised in women dressing as schoolgirls and having the johns feel them up on crowded trains or buses.Strange people indeed.

Faith

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

Thats fairly fecked up. Would making a scene and drawing attention to it not play into the pervs hands? Would he not like that?

No, it's got a lot to do with control. That's why vulnerable women are usually the target; ones who look like they won't do anything about it. It's not that he wants the world to see his willy; he wants a specific audience to see it. He wants to shock or surprise the victim. I suppose that's why it's quite common around schools; it's not that the flasher is a paedophile, it's probably that girls under 18 will generally have had very limited exposure to penises and are most likely to react with shock.

Of course, in the case of women flashing their breasts, that's usually intended to arouse or attract the attention of the person on the receiving end. Sometimes that's the case with men too.

Ickle Magoo

nedtheshed wrote: »

A bit OT but Id reckon those women wernt as unsuspecting as you think.Japan is a very strange country when it comes to sex,particularly voyeristic fetishes like you mentioned or things like guys walking around with mini cameras on their feet videoing up "unsuspecting" womens skirts.

You think they wanted to be ejaculated on? That some prior arrangement had been made to go somewhere for some guy to ejaculate on them? Seriously? :eek: Eep!

Not sure why the "" around unsuspecting either - if women wanted to be filmed then why would he need mini-cameras on his feet?

Nerin

I'd tend to assume straight away that the woman in the video was telling the truth.
But thinking about it, from the points raised, if this is all the "evidence" that exists, I couldn't vote guilty in a court.

It's a grainy video, the only sites being linked to or quoted just describe whats in the video or what's been alleged. Of course, if there was more video or witnesses, any doubt would be gone.

But this on its own? couldn't say.

Totally agree with 28064212 regarding hollaback and issues with what they do. They could be a great tool in combatting this kind of thing, but I can definetly see the danger in them.

Giselle

The same video is the subject of some deeper analysis in this article:

http://www.salon.com/life/violence_against_women/index.html?story=/mwt/broadsheet/2010/11/22/subway_flasher

The writer has traced back some of the comments and hits to an exhibitionists website, and the video is being presented and discussed as a ''how not to flash'' lesson. There's a lot of sympathy for the guy from his co-exhibitionists.

Heres a selection of some of the exhibitionists/flashers comments:

"Wow, what a red headed bitch," "What a bitch she is. She should be thankful he flashed his dick at her," "She should be on her knees giving thanks," "poor guy," "if she doesn't want to see it she can just look away," "It looks like he is new to the US and didnt at the time know how uptight American women can be about sex," "i would rape the **** out of that noisy bitch." One guy went off on quite the rant:

****in hideous.
She'd be responsible for turning a flasher into a mugger.
How about a punch in nose with that flash.
She's not upset about the flash she's upset that she hasn't been laid in two years and that all he had to do was ask.
LOL

Anyone who thinks flashing is harmless - and I think we shouldn't be calling it something as innocuous as flashing - should bear in mind its an escalating behaviour.

Otis Driftwood

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

You think they wanted to be ejaculated on? That some prior arrangement had been made to go somewhere for some guy to ejaculate on them? Seriously? :eek: Eep!

Not sure why the "" around unsuspecting either - if women wanted to be filmed then why would he need mini-cameras on his feet?

That they were there,being paid,to be ejaculated on.Basically a different type of porn star.The "" ment that for the purpose of the movies they were unsuspecting.The whole point of it is that the viewer/voyeur/buyer of these movies believes they are genuinely looking at women being filmed unbeknownst which is where the fetish is coming from.Anyway,this is probably veering towards S&S territory and has gone OT,apologies!

Leelaa22

Feeona wrote: »

This. And/or make a scene!

make the scene by pointing and laughing, get other people to join in.

Ickle Magoo

nedtheshed wrote: »

That they were there,being paid,to be ejaculated on.Basically a different type of porn star.The "" ment that for the purpose of the movies they were unsuspecting.The whole point of it is that the viewer/voyeur/buyer of these movies believes they are genuinely looking at women being filmed unbeknownst which is where the fetish is coming from.Anyway,this is probably veering towards S&S territory and has gone OT,apologies!

Oh, I get you, staged voyeurism. It's interesting, sorry for making you veer OT - what I know about japanese sexual culture would fit on the back of a postage stamp with room to spare.

Otis Driftwood

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

Oh, I get you, staged voyeurism. It's interesting, sorry for making you veer OT - what I know about japanese sexual culture would fit on the back of a postage stamp with room to spare.

Id be more concerned that its making me look like a deviant!! :O But yes,I ment that what Liah mentioned could well have been staged given the fairly out there sub cultures that exist in Japan.

Cat Melodeon

My sister and I were flashed at and wanked at in a park. At first we walked away all shocked and giggly, but then I realised this guy was withing sight of a kiddies play area so I turned around walked to within 10m of him and took his photo (complete with penis on display) before he realised what I was doing. He zipped up and followed us for a bit, which was a bit scary but we jumped on a bus and lost him. I brought the photo to the local police station. They knew who he was, said they'd be taking it further. I didn't hear any more about it, have no idea what was done but I certainly wasn't called to be a witness or anything, although that might have been because I was foreign (this wasn't in Ireland). I'm still glad I did it.

TitoPuente

Giselle wrote: »

Anyone who thinks flashing is harmless - and I think we shouldn't be calling it something as innocuous as flashing - should bear in mind its an escalating behaviour.

I don't think anyone on here would suggest that flashing is harmless. Certainly what this guy is being accused of is no less than sexual assault IMO.

Nevyn

Yes ladies don't share your stories as certain male posters will tear them apart and be all concerned for the poor men you are accusing.

The Anti-room has a post up covering the video and is asking for women to share thier stories.

http://theantiroom.wordpress.com/2010/11/23/flash-mob/#comment-6459

Wolfe Tone

Thaedydal wrote: »

Yes ladies don't share your stories as the male posters will tear them apart and be all concerned for the poor men you are accusing.

The Anti-room has a post up covering the video and is asking for women to share thier stories.

http://theantiroom.wordpress.com/2010/11/23/flash-mob/#comment-6459

.......

forget it

28064212

Thaedydal wrote: »

Yes ladies don't share your stories as the male posters will tear them apart and be all concerned for the poor men you are accusing.

The Anti-room has a post up covering the video and is asking for women to share thier stories.

http://theantiroom.wordpress.com/2010/11/23/flash-mob/#comment-6459

Do you think Hollaback's stated policy of posting pictures of people who are anonymously claimed to have committed a sexual assault is a good one?

I think sharing stories to raise awareness is great and providing support is great. Accusing someone specific of a criminal offence does not belong on a website, it belongs in the justice system. That's why boards.ie doesn't allow defamatory material

TitoPuente

Thaedydal wrote: »

Yes ladies don't share your stories as the male posters will tear them apart and be all concerned for the poor men you are accusing.

To be honest, I completely agree with what you're saying for the most part. If someone sexually harasses you, such as taking their penis out and waving it at you or rubbing up against you, then making a scene and going to the authorities is definitely what you should do. Prosectute them to the full extent of the law, in a court of law.

However, if you're accusing someone of something outside of a court of law and without sufficient evidence then I wholeheartedly object to that. What's the point in 'sharing stories'? Go to the police, make a report and get the pervert arrested.

fillefatale

Was reading this article today about a flashing forum. The aim of some posters is to try and get pictures of their "victims".

Well done to that woman standing up for herself, I don't know how i'd react. I've sat beside a flasher, unbeknownst to myself and my friends were too scared to react. We felt ashamed, which we most certainly should not feel. The flasher has the issues, not us.

Nevyn

TitoPuente wrote: »

To be honest, I completely agree with what you're saying for the most part. If someone sexually harasses you, such as taking their penis out and waving it at you or rubbing up against you, then making a scene and going to the authorities is definitely what you should do. Prosectute them to the full extent of the law, in a court of law.

However, if you're accusing someone of something outside of a court of law and without sufficient evidence then I wholeheartedly object to that. What's the point in 'sharing stories'? Go to the police, make a report and get the pervert arrested.

Many women don't know that this happens to other women as often it's not spoken about and as a result they don't tell people close to them and get help and support to go to the garda.

Given how screwed up the law and justice system is and the pressure put on the Garda you could have nothing come from reporting it or it goes way down the list of priroties for a busy station and you may never hear back.

The more women talk about their experiences, share thier stories the more women may find the courage to stand up to such harassers and if enough women do it can make a difference.

It's called empowerment, sharing stories and supporting each other empowers people who have been through similar experiences to stand up for themselves.

TitoPuente

Thaedydal wrote: »

Many women don't know that this happens to other women as often it's not spoken about and as a result they don't tell people close to them and get help and support to go to the garda.

After reading this thread earlier, I asked my two flatmates (both females in their early 30's) had they ever been flashed by a sinister deviant (as opposed to some drunk guy on a stag night running through the town naked type of thing). Both said no, never. They're both lived their lives in a busy city. So it strikes me as not being *that* common. Although in your comment on that thread, you say you've lost count of the number of times it's happened to you, so I'm open to being wrong about that.

Thaedydal wrote: »

Given how screwed up the law and justice system is and the pressure put on the Garda you could have nothing come from reporting it or it goes way down the list of priroties for a busy station and you may never hear back.

That's a bit of a defeatest attitude in all fairness and, as someone who knows more than a few Gardaí, I'd have to say that they would generally take reports of such behaviour very seriously. As you say, this has happened to you more times than you can remember so, if the Gardaí are regularly ignoring you, try taking a solicitor with you one time. Watch them do their jobs then!

Thaedydal wrote: »

The more women talk about their experiences, share thier stories the more women may find the courage to stand up to such harassers and if enough women do it can make a difference.

It's called empowerment, sharing stories and supporting each other empowers people who have been through similar experiences to stand up for themselves.

Well what can I say? I'm amazed if this phenomenon is as endemic as you say it is that nothing is being done about it on a nationwide level. These sick perverts are obviously just going around sexually assaulting people on a daily basis with impunity.

Personally, I've only ever seen it a couple of times and it was reasonably innocuous (not as vulgar or sinister as a lot of what's been suggested here) and another couple of times it was women who were doing the flashing. Also personally, and with regard to my two friends (again, both female) who have read this thread, we're of the opinion that the assertion that this kind of behaviour is uttely endemic, that most women are flashed and molested regularly, is complete and utter hysteria. Then again, everyone's experiences are different I guess - maybe the three of us are just lucky.

echosound

TitoPuente wrote: »

Also personally, and with regard to my two friends (again, both female) who have read this thread, we're of the opinion that the assertion that this kind of behaviour is uttely endemic, that most women are flashed and molested regularly, is complete and utter hysteria. Then again, everyone's experiences are different I guess - maybe the three of us are just lucky.

Well I guess it just depends on who you know and how "lucky" they've been in life. Personally speaking, I've been flashed at before, more than once, one instance stands out in my mind as it was particularly unnerving for us - 2 girls, both age 12 on a quiet country road, confronted with 3 adult men, one of whom stood blocking our way while he waved his dick at us, leering.

I remember a very intense conversation with a group of friends while I was in secondary school, and out of the 7 of us, only 1 girl had gone through life thus far (we were aged 16-17) without being sexually "molested" in some way - ranging from just being groped, to full penetrative rape. None of the group of 6 had reported the fact to gardai, for varying reasons. That conversation was a real eye-opener, we were all a bit shell-shocked that it seemed such so commonplace.

However I wouldn't extrapolate out from that conversation and assume that 6 out of every 7 females are molested sexually. As you said, everyone's experience is different.

Oh and the best way to react to a flasher in my experience is to laugh and point and belittle them, and kick up a stink (so long as you are safe to do so, i.e. can make a safe getaway should they turn nasty). Good on that woman in the videoclip for her reaction.

Improbable

Thaedydal wrote: »

Many women don't know that this happens to other women as often it's not spoken about and as a result they don't tell people close to them and get help and support to go to the garda.

Given how screwed up the law and justice system is and the pressure put on the Garda you could have nothing come from reporting it or it goes way down the list of priroties for a busy station and you may never hear back.

The more women talk about their experiences, share thier stories the more women may find the courage to stand up to such harassers and if enough women do it can make a difference.

It's called empowerment, sharing stories and supporting each other empowers people who have been through similar experiences to stand up for themselves.

But just as you can get men who do this sort of thing (and it does happen), you do also get women who accuse people for no reason other than to get attention. The point of the legal system is to check the evidence.

If the guy actually did it, and there's a picture, or a video, or collaborating eyewitness testimony, or he confesses, then yeah, he's in the wrong. But even accusations of such an act can cause a great deal of damage even if the person is innocent. That's why I don't think it's acceptable to post a picture of say a guy just standing there, fully clothed and claiming that he did something. That's not evidence. If you film him or picture him in the act, or everybody who was there says that they saw the same thing, then obviously that's different.

As long as you don't post pictures of them doing nothing or name people, there's no problem with spreading the word that this goes on.

As for this particular video, personally I think he probably did it. It's really the shifty way he's holding the bag right in front of his groin but then again, maybe he got an erection and accidentally brushed up against her and he was embarrassed by it so he was trying to cover it up. But that's not my call to make.

The point that I'm really trying to get across is that even though it may look like the guy actually did it, there is no evidence in this particular video. If there was one with him actually flashing her and whatnot, that would be an entirely different story, but that's not the case here. All we have is a woman accusing a guy of something that he may or may not have done.

Nevyn

Improbable wrote: »

But just as you can get men who do this sort of thing (and it does happen), you do also get women who accuse people for no reason other than to get attention.

Again the myths of false accusation rear their head, yes there are some mentally unstable women who do such things, but the number are tiny and it does not excuse the number of men who do this sort of thing. You are not comparing like with like.

Improbable wrote: »

All we have is a woman accusing a guy of something that he may or may not have done.

So the word or testimony of a woman doesn't hold enough weight?
Well really what should be expect considering the origins of the word testimony comes from :rolleyes:

Norwayviking

Fishie wrote: »

It looks like this flasher got more than he bargained for when he pressed himself up against this woman with his penis out on a non-crowded New York subway (he is covering it with a bag in the video)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WI5AH8YH714

He got what he deserved imo, trying to sexually intimidate people is not on and he deserved to be humiliated.

Has anyone here ever been flashed? How did you react? Thankfully I haven't, although there were a lot of flashings in some fields near my home when I was about eight... I didn't understand at the time why my mum didn't want me going there by myself. The guy was caught, thankfully

How about a good kick up the nuts.That usually drops most flashers:D

Improbable

Thaedydal wrote: »

Again the myths of false accusation rear their head, yes there are some mentally unstable women who do such things, but the number are tiny and it does not excuse the number of men who do this sort of thing. You are not comparing like with like.

Unequal ratios do not invalidate the argument. Read what I wrote, I actually think that the guy did it in that particular case. And sorry, but false accusation isn't a myth. You're treating it as if it was 100% irrevertible fact that the guy did what she says he did. That is simply not the case.

Thaedydal wrote: »

So the word or testimony of a woman doesn't hold enough weight?
Well really what should be expect considering the origins of the word testimony comes from :rolleyes:

It has nothing to do with gender. If the genders were reversed and it was the guy who claimed that the woman who sexually violated him, I would still say the same thing, i.e. there is no proof in that video.

The only reason I specifically said "All we have is a woman accusing a guy of something that he may or may not have done." was to illustrate what we actually see in the video. Because that is all that we see. We don't see the guy performing the act. I apologise deeply for my use of gender pronouns.

As to that last bit about testimony, well, that's just a facetious argument as I don't see what the origin of the word testimony has to do with the issue at all...

TitoPuente

Thaedydal wrote: »

Again the myths of false accusation rear their head

The 'myths of false accusation'? I'm actually terrified by that remark to be perfectly honest. It's absolutely no different, IMO, to a man saying that rape was just a myth or that women 'deserve it'.

Thaedydal wrote: »

yes there are some mentally unstable women who do such things, but the number are tiny and it does not excuse the number of men who do this sort of thing. You are not comparing like with like.

I wouldn't say the number of unbalanced women who falsely accuse men is tiny at all. Although I don't think anyone has any statistics to back up their assertions.

Thaedydal wrote: »

So the word or testimony of a woman doesn't hold enough weight?

No, it certainly does not hold enough weight. I'm very sorry about that but we have a judicial system for a reason. You can't just go around accusing people of crimes without any evidence whatsoever and expect them to be jailed on your 'word'. That's an absolutely insane notion.

Essentially what you seem to be saying is that people who are accused of rape should be jailed without evidence. Absolutely bonkers!

Obviously rape is a very serious (and damaging and disgusting) crime and those guilty of it should be punished to the full extent of the law... or worse if possible. I just can't agree that anybody (man or woman) should be convicted of any crime without evidence, based solely on the word of the accuser. If we lived in a society like that, tens of thousands of innocent people (or more) would be in jail.

RedXIV

Anyone else think the guy looks like Jeff Goldblum?

28064212

Thaedydal wrote: »

Again the myths of false accusation rear their head, yes there are some mentally unstable women who do such things, but the number are tiny and it does not excuse the number of men who do this sort of thing. You are not comparing like with like.

You are not comparing like with like. No-one here has said someone who engages in sexual assualt should be excused because there may be false accusations out there. We are saying that someone who is accused of doing so is entitled to due process, just like every other person in the country

Thaedydal wrote: »

So the word or testimony of a woman doesn't hold enough weight?

The word or testimony of anyone doesn't hold enough weight on its own. If it did, we wouldn't need a justice system. Do you think the testimony of someone (of either gender) is enough for a conviction?

Did the woman in the original video go to the police? Did she file a charge against the person who assaulted her? Why not?

Thaedydal wrote: »

Well really what should be expect considering the origins of the word testimony comes from :rolleyes:

"It comes from the Indo-European roots *tre- meaning 'three' and *sta- meaning 'stand'. A witness was 'a third person standing by'. From that came the verb testificare 'to bear witness', which evolved into Middle English testify in the fourteenth century". - What's your point?

Do you think Hollaback's stated policy of posting pictures of people who are anonymously claimed to have committed a sexual assault is a good one?
And more generally, do you think a website should be able to post pictures of people who are anonymously claimed to have committed any crime?