How to respond to a flasher

Scarinae

It looks like this flasher got more than he bargained for when he pressed himself up against this woman with his penis out on a non-crowded New York subway (he is covering it with a bag in the video)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WI5AH8YH714

He got what he deserved imo, trying to sexually intimidate people is not on and he deserved to be humiliated.

Has anyone here ever been flashed? How did you react? Thankfully I haven't, although there were a lot of flashings in some fields near my home when I was about eight... I didn't understand at the time why my mum didn't want me going there by myself. The guy was caught, thankfully

TitoPuente

Fishie wrote: »

He got what he deserved imo

Either your man was a flasher/sexual abuser or she's a delusional psycho. Difficult to tell without any real evidence.

Jenneke87

When pressing up against you, place foot firmly between his legs...

When flashing in public, plain ignore and report the idiot at the nearest Gardai station.....

That be all....

Nevyn

TitoPuente wrote: »

Either your man was a flasher/sexual abuser or she's a delusional psycho. Difficult to tell without any real evidence.

Seriously?

So you think it's more likely sh'e a psycho because she yelled out rather then he's a perv. Classic victim blaming, way to go, you heard it ladies don't call out people who are sexually harassing you cos people will think your mentally unbalanced just suffer in s licence so the perv can do it to other women.

Nevyn

http://www.ihollaback.org

Hollaback! is a movement dedicated to ending street harassment using mobile technology. Street harassment is one of the most pervasive forms of gender-based violence and one of the least legislated against. Comments from “You’d look good on me” to groping, flashing and assault are a daily, global reality for women and LGBTQ individuals. But it is rarely reported, and it’s culturally accepted as ‘the price you pay’ for being a woman or for being gay. At Hollaback!, we don’t buy it.

We believe that everyone has a right to feel safe and confident without being objectified. Sexual harassment is a gateway crime that creates a cultural environment that makes gender-based violence OK. There exists a clear legal framework to reproach sexual harassment and abuse in the home and at work, but when it comes to the streets—all bets are off. This gap isn’t because street harassment hurts any less, it’s because there hasn’t been a solution. Until now. The explosion of mobile technology has given us an unprecedented opportunity to end street harassment—and with it, the opportunity to take on one of the final new frontiers for women’s rights around the word.

By collecting women and LGBTQ folks’ stories and pictures in a safe and share-able way with our soon-to-launch mobile phone applications, Hollaback! is creating a crowd-sourced initiative to end street harassment. Hollaback! breaks the silence that has perpetuated sexual violence internationally, asserts that any and all gender-based violence is unacceptable, and creates a world where we have an option—and, more importantly—a response.

TitoPuente

Thaedydal wrote: »

Seriously?

So you think it's more likely sh'e a psycho because she yelled out rather then he's a perv. Classic victim blaming, way to go, you heard it ladies don't call out people who are sexually harassing you cos people will think your mentally unbalanced just suffer in s licence so the perv can do it to other women.

What? I don't think anything is more likely than anything else. I'm not blaming anyone. I'm simply saying what I see in that video is a woman throwing a fit and a man standing beside her - not a penis in sight. What do you see?

Nevyn

It if had a penis on view it would not be openingly viewable on youtube.

Wolfe Tone

Why would you even flash yourself at a woman in the first place?

TitoPuente

Thaedydal wrote: »

It if had a penis on view it would not be openingly viewable on youtube.

Right. So nobody knows what actually happened here. All we see is a woman going spare and making accusations at a guy. He could be guilty of being a scumbag, she could just be nuts. The truth is that nobody knows. No you, not me, nobody except screaming woman and penis man... and possibly someone else who saw penis man's penis.

That hardly constitutes 'victim blaming' - it's just that the evidence presented (or lack thereof) wouldn't stand up (no more puns, I promise) in a court of law.

Nevyn

Why do you think she'd lie?
Why can't you accept the video as is presented?

If you mother/partner/sister/daughter told you this happened to her would you believe her or would you ask her for a picture?

rannerap

me and my friend got flashed once down neer fibbers parnell street when we were walking to a friends house, we just screamed and ran away:o

TitoPuente

Thaedydal wrote: »

Why do you think she'd lie?

Why would you think he'd pull his penis out?

Thaedydal wrote: »

Why can't you accept the video as is presented?

I do. I don't see a penis.

Thaedydal wrote: »

If you mother/partner/sister/daughter told you this happened to her would you believe her or would you ask her for a picture?

If your father/boyfriend/brother/son told you that they were accused of this would you believe them or would you ask for proof of their innocence?

I'm not trying to be a contrary pain in the neck - I'm just saying that I didn't see the guy's penis or see the guy rubbing off her.

Ickle Magoo

If accused of flashing, is the rational thing to clutch your bag to your crotch and look around sheepishly? If he hadn't done anything wouldn't he be bag down, hands in the air demanding to know what she was going on about? I notice there are more than one persons filming as well.

I had a guy flash me when I was a student...I was crossing a parkway after a night out and I just pointed and laughed. He looked a bit annoyed. Not sure what he expected, no man's going to look their best in November in Scotland. :pac:

Wibbs

Lets back off of the cross examination please.

Regardless of the Cold case style examination of the video, this is a pretty common problem for women, especially on public transport. The Japanese have an epidemic of it. Its a fetish for them. Lots of women get flashed in their lives. I suspect a large chunk of the Ladies here have some experience of it.

Nevyn

Yep got ot love how men will put themselves in the accused shoes and go but but but.
Women's experience of the world teaches use are men out there who do this to us and who get away with due to men not believing it happens and throwing out the well worn line of she must be nuts.

Fishie wrote: »

Has anyone here ever been flashed? How did you react? Thankfully I haven't, although there were a lot of flashings in some fields near my home when I was about eight... I didn't understand at the time why my mum didn't want me going there by myself. The guy was caught, thankfully

I raise a fuss and yell, I always have and I don't care if on lookers who don't see a penis or the person assulating me think I am nuts, if it gets the creep away from me and makes them think twice before doing it to another women then it's worth it.
I would rather make a fuss then feel guilty later that I did nothing and let it happen to me.


http://feministing.com/2010/11/23/subway-flasher-gets-hollabackd/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

Subway flasher gets Hollaback’d
By Jos | Published: November 23, 2010

Via Hollaback comes this video of a woman confronting a man who had his penis out, in a condom, and was pressing up against her on an NYC train.

The woman in this video seriously rocks! She turns the tables on her harasser, making it clear she sees what he’s doing, sharing that with the whole train car, and insisting he will be coming with her to see the police. The video’s also a great example of using technology as a tool to fight harassment, as a group of people start taking video and photos of the flasher in question. And I think it’s a testament to the success of programs like Hollaback – I don’t know what inspired this particular woman to stand up to her harasser, but it’s certainly heartening to know this action is part of a larger movement of people who won’t accept this kind of behavior any more.

Ickle Magoo

Right, this is The ladies lounge..

As per the forum charter...

This forum is for the discussion of topics from a woman's point of view.
We do welcome male input, but do bear in mind that this forum is firstly for the women of boards to have their say, from their point of view.

If you can't post in the spirit of the forum, don't post at all.

liah

There's a seriously disturbing video floating around out there on the internet from Japan featuring a young man and his friend with a videocamera running around and actually ejaculating onto unsuspecting women, then laughing and running away.

Surprisingly, the most horrifying bit about it to me wasn't even the actual (degrading, vile, pathetic) act itself but how the women reacted to it-- or rather, didn't. They appeared stunned for a moment, but mostly did not react other than to clean themselves up and move along.

But that's Japan, and from my perspective it's a pretty messed up place when it comes to sex and women. It's also an extreme on the flasher scale. Just thought it was interesting, in a very sad way.

mcmoustache

I was expecting a bit more from the video, to be honest. I was kinda hoping for a taser to the balls or something or some form of comical violence.

Seriously, though, making a scene is probably the best thing to do. I don't know much about the mental state of flashers but I doubt they like the exposure (pardon the pun).

I wonder what the best response would be in a less crowded area though? Like an empty luas carriage. Pull the chord?

28064212

Thaedydal wrote: »

http://www.ihollaback.org

Woah, hang on, there is a major problem with that organisation. I am all for women standing up for themselves, I am all for proper punishments being handed down, and I am all for campaigns which raise awareness about the fact that this sort of thing happens.

I am not ok with a site that publishes people's photos/videos on the back of an anonymous claim that the person pictured are sex offenders. That is a completely irresponsible approach. If there's evidence that a crime has been committed, you bring it to the authorities. An organisation like Hollaback has a great role to play in helping people bring cases to the police and in providing support and information. It does not have the right to judge people guilty without a trial

Faith

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

Why would you even flash yourself at a woman in the first place?

It's generally a sexual compulsion. They get the same gratification from it that the average person would get from masturbation or sexual intercourse. It's along the same principles as having sex in a public place with the chance of getting caught.

I've never been flashed, but there was an epidemic of it when I was in 6th year. Also it's very common on the route from the main UCC campus to my campus. She was right to shout at him. It's often about control and she didn't let him have control of the situation by looking away and ignoring it. Drawing attention to it and humiliating him was a fairly solid tactic.

My thesis is concerned with things like flashing, so I always joke that if I was flashed, I'd stop and attempt to interview the guy about why he's doing it :P.

Ectoplasm

Where I went to school part of the grounds backed onto a public park. Over the years there were a number of flashers who would hang about and seemed to target the pupils but it was usually solved by the approach of a teacher. When I was in 6th year though, there was a guy who was very persistent and was turning up every few days.

I encountered this guy on a couple of occasions - never alone though. We used to just laugh and tell him to put it away but there was girls of 11 and 12 who were very upset by it. It was solved when a garda posed as a student and he got arrested.

Leelaa22

Point and laugh at the size. Just keep pointing and laughing

Feeona

Leelaa22 wrote: »

Point and laugh at the size. Just keep pointing and laughing

This. And/or make a scene!

Wolfe Tone

Faith wrote: »

It's generally a sexual compulsion. They get the same gratification from it that the average person would get from masturbation or sexual intercourse. It's along the same principles as having sex in a public place with the chance of getting caught.

Thats fairly fecked up. Would making a scene and drawing attention to it not play into the pervs hands? Would he not like that?

catthinkin

i had a friend who was flashed once she is glaswegian ( this has to be said with that accent) she said aye that looks like a willy only wayyyy smaller , didnt stop walking either

Otis Driftwood

liah wrote: »

There's a seriously disturbing video floating around out there on the internet from Japan featuring a young man and his friend with a videocamera running around and actually ejaculating onto unsuspecting women, then laughing and running away.
Surprisingly, the most horrifying bit about it to me wasn't even the actual (degrading, vile, pathetic) act itself but how the women reacted to it-- or rather, didn't. They appeared stunned for a moment, but mostly did not react other than to clean themselves up and move along.
But that's Japan, and from my perspective it's a pretty messed up place when it comes to sex and women. It's also an extreme on the flasher scale. Just thought it was interesting, in a very sad way.

A bit OT but Id reckon those women wernt as unsuspecting as you think.Japan is a very strange country when it comes to sex,particularly voyeristic fetishes like you mentioned or things like guys walking around with mini cameras on their feet videoing up "unsuspecting" womens skirts.I read in Bizarre a few years ago that Japan is the leading producer of rape fetish movies.I also read in possibly the same issue that there was/is an escort agency that specialised in women dressing as schoolgirls and having the johns feel them up on crowded trains or buses.Strange people indeed.

Faith

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

Thats fairly fecked up. Would making a scene and drawing attention to it not play into the pervs hands? Would he not like that?

No, it's got a lot to do with control. That's why vulnerable women are usually the target; ones who look like they won't do anything about it. It's not that he wants the world to see his willy; he wants a specific audience to see it. He wants to shock or surprise the victim. I suppose that's why it's quite common around schools; it's not that the flasher is a paedophile, it's probably that girls under 18 will generally have had very limited exposure to penises and are most likely to react with shock.

Of course, in the case of women flashing their breasts, that's usually intended to arouse or attract the attention of the person on the receiving end. Sometimes that's the case with men too.

Ickle Magoo

nedtheshed wrote: »

A bit OT but Id reckon those women wernt as unsuspecting as you think.Japan is a very strange country when it comes to sex,particularly voyeristic fetishes like you mentioned or things like guys walking around with mini cameras on their feet videoing up "unsuspecting" womens skirts.

You think they wanted to be ejaculated on? That some prior arrangement had been made to go somewhere for some guy to ejaculate on them? Seriously? :eek: Eep!

Not sure why the "" around unsuspecting either - if women wanted to be filmed then why would he need mini-cameras on his feet?

Nerin

I'd tend to assume straight away that the woman in the video was telling the truth.
But thinking about it, from the points raised, if this is all the "evidence" that exists, I couldn't vote guilty in a court.

It's a grainy video, the only sites being linked to or quoted just describe whats in the video or what's been alleged. Of course, if there was more video or witnesses, any doubt would be gone.

But this on its own? couldn't say.

Totally agree with 28064212 regarding hollaback and issues with what they do. They could be a great tool in combatting this kind of thing, but I can definetly see the danger in them.

Giselle

The same video is the subject of some deeper analysis in this article:

http://www.salon.com/life/violence_against_women/index.html?story=/mwt/broadsheet/2010/11/22/subway_flasher

The writer has traced back some of the comments and hits to an exhibitionists website, and the video is being presented and discussed as a ''how not to flash'' lesson. There's a lot of sympathy for the guy from his co-exhibitionists.

Heres a selection of some of the exhibitionists/flashers comments:

"Wow, what a red headed bitch," "What a bitch she is. She should be thankful he flashed his dick at her," "She should be on her knees giving thanks," "poor guy," "if she doesn't want to see it she can just look away," "It looks like he is new to the US and didnt at the time know how uptight American women can be about sex," "i would rape the **** out of that noisy bitch." One guy went off on quite the rant:

****in hideous.
She'd be responsible for turning a flasher into a mugger.
How about a punch in nose with that flash.
She's not upset about the flash she's upset that she hasn't been laid in two years and that all he had to do was ask.
LOL

Anyone who thinks flashing is harmless - and I think we shouldn't be calling it something as innocuous as flashing - should bear in mind its an escalating behaviour.

Otis Driftwood

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

You think they wanted to be ejaculated on? That some prior arrangement had been made to go somewhere for some guy to ejaculate on them? Seriously? :eek: Eep!

Not sure why the "" around unsuspecting either - if women wanted to be filmed then why would he need mini-cameras on his feet?

That they were there,being paid,to be ejaculated on.Basically a different type of porn star.The "" ment that for the purpose of the movies they were unsuspecting.The whole point of it is that the viewer/voyeur/buyer of these movies believes they are genuinely looking at women being filmed unbeknownst which is where the fetish is coming from.Anyway,this is probably veering towards S&S territory and has gone OT,apologies!