Why do people even smoke cigarettes?

kylith

elviscostello wrote: »

How do you know what state her lungs were in?

I inherited them, they make fine bagpipes

jamesl85 wrote:

Everyone keeps mentioning anecdotal evidence like the above, but anecdotal evidence is next to worthless when trying to elucidate the causative factors in any illness.

Believe it or not I agree, but the point that we are trying to make is that it's not as straightforward as smoking=dying of cancer. For every smoker who gets lung cancer there's a non-smoker who dies of an undiagnosed brain tumor, or someone who's smoked 40 a day since 1940 and climbs Croagh Patrick every week, or a non-smoker with stomach cancer.

If people want to smoke even though they're aware that they're more likely to get cancer then that's up to them. If you don't want to smoke please be aware that you're no more immune to random disease or accident than the rest of us, and leave us alone.

pickarooney

liah wrote: »

Just to clarify before I reply, what is it you think I've my mind made up on?

The bold bits, although you do concede that things could always change.

There was a time I could not conceive of being alive after 40; it seemed tragic and pointless. Even 30 seemed like the beginning of the end. All I wanted to do was travel and meet people, try new things, see new stuff. I'm not going to stop just because I'm getting older, even if I do have to slow down. I don't think there's any way not to read such things as condescending if you have a mind to do so though, so I can imagine this post, and your reply will be a waste of time.

liah wrote:

I don't want kids, that's my prerogative. It doesn't make me sad, it just means I have different priorities. Kids are great and all, but they're just not for me.

I am young and alive and having so much fun, I have so much of the world left to see and the second I am brought down, as soon as my body makes it impossible for me to travel and fully experience life anymore, I will not be truly happy anymore.

Things could always change, but as far as I see it, to do what I enjoy doing I need all my faculties and physical ability to do these things. Not that these things disappear at 50, mind. I don't literally mean "I hope I die at 50," but if I did die at 50 I know I would've had an amazing life up until that point and would die with absolutely no regrets.

fakearms123

liah wrote: »

If you don't mean to be patronizing, don't go around calling anyone who says something you don't necessarily feel the same about sad. It makes you come across as highly judgmental with some sort of superiority complex, especially considering how judgmental you are about smokers.

Of course friends would miss me if I was gone, but they will have to deal with that at one point or another anyway. Or I would.


Regardless: what the hell happened to "live and let live?" Is it "Live, but only on my terms!" now?

liah my opinion doesn't mean sh*t, i have nothing against smokers, if i did then I would lose a lot of my close friends, I was just replying to your post giving my opinion, you seem like a happy girl and it seems like your enjoying life so I take back what I said about you being sad.

I don't live life conservatively, sure I almost flipped a quad bike going 70km/hr last week so I could have easily died that way, but unlike smoking, i dont quad bike everyday, thats just the point I was trying to make in this thread.

I'm sorry if I came across judgemental.

_feedback_

kylith wrote: »

I inherited them, they make fine bagpipes

See, the anecdotal evidence doesn't really stand up to much!

I must stop talking about this, as I'm breaking my first rule of giving up: don't preach to smokers.

Good post ScumLord!

liah

pickarooney wrote: »

The bold bits, although you do concede that things could always change.

There was a time I could not conceive of being alive after 40; it seemed tragic and pointless. Even 30 seemed like the beginning of the end. All I wanted to do was travel and meet people, try new things, see new stuff. I'm not going to stop just because I'm getting older, even if I do have to slow down. I don't think there's any way not to read such things as condescending if you have a mind to do so though, so I can imagine this post, and your reply will be a waste of time.

Well, obviously for the sake of the argument I'm speaking in mostly hypotheticals. I'm not arrogant enough to say "never" and actually mean never; it's just shorthand to get to the sentiment of the topic rather than my actual life outlook.

I don't know if I'll ever change my mind on kids, or getting married, or settling down, or getting old, or all those other things I've never had any inclination to do before. It could, theoretically, happen; may have some epiphany and my opinions on everything will change. Wouldn't be impossible. But they have never appealed to me.

But, making an educated guess based on the evidence I know about myself in the present, I think it's safe to say I won't have kids, get married, would be unhappy if settled in one area for too long, and will probably die younger than most-- and have no regrets.

The most fascinating part of my life is realizing how much I've changed and wondering how much change there is to come. Never say never, right?

pickarooney

liah wrote: »

But, making an educated guess based on the evidence I know about myself in the present, I think it's safe to say I won't have kids, get married, would be unhappy if settled in one area for too long, and will probably die younger than most-- and have no regrets.

The most fascinating part of my life is realizing how much I've changed and wondering how much change there is to come. Never say never, right?

Yeah, would you have thought at 20 that your travels would take you to Mullingar and Flensburg?

liah

pickarooney wrote: »

Yeah, would you have thought at 20 that your travels would take you to Mullingar and Flensburg?

Haha, maybe not those towns (god love 'em ) specifically, but Ireland, the UK and Germany were three of my goals since I was very young so so far all's going according to plan, and then some (seen a lot of Canada, the States, and even a slice of Denmark with more exploration to come)!

ScumLord

ScumLord wrote: »

No they're not, they're heavily taxed, there's a big difference.

Everything causes cancer and your going to die regardless.

These are purely subjective, you've had the anti smoking propaganda burnt into your brain and now find smoking repulsive when really it shouldn't mean anything to you either way. When smoking was cool everyone found it very attractive. Your dealing in fads and fashion.

I'd rather smell of smoke than rancid chemical spray.

Complete nonsense, the smokers deep voice is regarded as sexy. This is just fact.

I don't have to I'm forced outside by nonsense like this.
There's nothing enjoyable about being stuck on a plane. Bus and train are slightly more enjoyable because there's something to look at out the window but public transport is not enjoyable.
I can enjoy an meal and go out and smoke what's your point?

I smoke purely to annoy people like you.

That explains your username.

Le King

Because when I was young peer pressure duly informed me that Smoking was cool. All the cool kids smoke.

Promac

I pity anyone who still smokes. I pity even more anyone who thinks they enjoy it. And again, I pity even more everyone who just scoffed at that last statement.


There are 3 reasons why smokers smoke – stupidity, foolishness and fear.

Stupidity because they think addiction is free will and that the pleasure of an addiction being satisfied is their own enjoyment; foolishness because they don’t care when they know the difference between addiction and enjoyment; and fear because they’re afraid they won’t ever enjoy life as much as they do while smoking.

I smoked for 20 years, 30 to 40 a day at the end - more on the weekend. I loved smoking. My clothes never smelled bad. I loved the smell and taste of smoke.

Couple of years later, I hate the smell and can’t understand how I ever liked it. I’m still finding the odd piece of clothing that stinks of smoke. And I can now travel on long flights. Correction - I can now admit that I would never take a long flight because I was afraid of the withdrawal.


And for anyone who skipped most of that to get to the end - anyone who smokes is a fool, an idiot, a coward or all three.

Copper23

It's a bad habit alright, I never understood though how it was singled out over any thing else.

Why do smokers smoke? It feels good, and tastes good. Non-smokers don't get it.

So... someone who never had a drink before might ask, why do drinkers drink? It is not good for them, it smells bad, it tastes bad, has a worse immediate effect on the person physically and mentally than a cigarette! Answer, it feels good and tastes good.

So why do we drink?

What about McDonalds, if you never eat it, then it's just fatty and stodgy, makes you fat, also stinks, etc... But someone who eats there a lot loves it.

You can make the same argument for so many things. Smoking's really bad, I just always found it odd it has such a stigma when a lot of equally bad things don't.

Promac

Copper23 wrote: »

Smoking's really bad, I just always found it odd it has such a stigma when a lot of equally bad things don't.

You can't kill someone by eating a big mac in the same room.

Stercus Accidit

Promac wrote: »

You can't kill someone by eating a big mac in the same room.

Unless there was a few holocausts I missed, neither does smoking.

Pace2008

fakearms123 wrote: »

I'm not trying to stop you from smoking, I don't care if you do smoke, I don't agree with your opinions at all but an opinion is an opinion so I have to at least try to understand where you coming from.

There are two very simple reasons why people smoke: it's enjoyable, and it's addictive. People smoke because they find it pleasurable, or because they cannot stop smoking, or both. This has already been stated several times in the preceding posts so I’m not sure if your questions are genuine or if you created this thread to launch some indirect polemic against smokers.

You wonder why people continue to smoke despite the well-documented, well-publicised dangers?

Some are in denial. You’ve seen people claim things along the lines of “Maybe smoking can kill you, but so can falling off a bike/crashing your car/being hit in the head with a brick. These are actually inaccurate comparisons as the aforementioned scenarios are accidents that will affect only a tiny portion of the populace. Cigarettes do not kill or maim you instantly; the related complications arise through the cumulative effects of chronic, long-term use. I would say (and I’ll readily admit that this is an assumption) that the majority of regular smokers will experience some degree of physical detriment through their habit, whether it be reduced cardiovascular performance or terminal lung cancer. Defending one’s habit by saying “sure doesn’t everything cause cancer these days?” doesn’t wash with me either. There are very few single lifestyle factors that contribute significantly to serious diseases like cancer than smoking, and the studies are there to prove it.

Then you have those who are aware of the dangers of smoking and claim to accept them but will continue their habit nonetheless. I believe there’s a difference between understanding the risks and actually believing them. People can read all the medical literature there is and witness firsthand through family and friends the potential consequences of smoking, but we are programmed in such a way that we perceive ourselves as invulnerable; we give ourselves the benefit of the doubt and subconsciously believe that such a fate isn’t for us. It’s the same with people who go out several times a week and get absolutely polluted on booze, only to actually joke or even boast about the damage they’re doing to their liver. If they truly believed that their behavior would lead to liver cirrhosis, cancer, heart disease or whatever, I sincerely doubt they’d continue to act as they do.

And then, of course, there are people who genuinely don’t give ****.

. Well of course it isn't going to now because your smoking. Lets say that when I'm 90, I cant see that well, at least i'll be able to sit out by the porch listening to my music with a glass of red wine during a warm summer day as my grandchildren play around in the garden, if I ever get to experience a moment like that I would trade it for all the cigarettes you have smoked to prevent you from having that experience.

Like some of the smokers in this thread, you’re assuming the best possible outcome for yourself. You could as easily have dementia at that age and not even recognise your grandchildren for who they are.

What is the real reason you started smoking? Because it couldnt be just to annoy people like me

Curiosity for my part.

Promac

Stercus Accidit wrote: »

Unless there was a few holocausts I missed, neither does smoking.

http://www.google.ie/webhp?cplp=1277392836715#sclient=psy&hl=en&site=webhp&q=passive+smoking&aq=f&aqi=g4g-o1&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=&pbx=1&fp=2730913dbb190280

Do your own research.

Copper23

Promac wrote: »

You can't kill someone by eating a big mac in the same room.

I've never seen any drop dead while the guy next to him had a quick cig. is this a regular thing? Was there anything else involved? A gun? A hammer?

liah

Promac, if you're going to go down that route, theoretically you could also argue that anyone who serves their guests unhealthy/fatty foods at a barbecue is a murderer for possibly contributing to heart disease or a variety of other health issues caused by certain foods, fats, sugars, etc.

Ironically, in one sentence you both made and defeated your own argument.

Impressive.

Tar.Aldarion

I haven't read anything but one post.

Those foods are not inherently bad for you, abuse is, smoking is always bad for you


/stirs pot and flees

AckwelFoley

Tar.Aldarion wrote: »

I haven't read anything but one post.

Those foods are not inherently bad for you, abuse is, smoking is always bad for you


/stirs pot and flees

With a name like "tar" we know whos side yer on.

4zn76tysfajdxp

snyper wrote: »

With a name like "tar" we know whos side yer on.

On the roadside?

Grolschevik

Discussions like this are why I don't think I have ever posted in AH before. First of all, I broadly agree with the general "live and let live" sentiments expressed, future healthcare costs notwithstanding.

In my case, I did not smoke until I was 28. I tried to in my teens, but didn't like it. In my 20s, I was in a band where some of the members would occasionally roll joints, with tobacco. We rehearsed quite often, and I got to enjoy sharing their joints -- "I'm in a band, man!" -- although I could never be bothered to buy for myself.

In due course, I was at a work do. It was deadly dull, and I was stuck at a table with people I barely knew. I found myself thinking: "I'd love a joint". Then I noticed my partner's cigarettes and thought that that'd be the next best thing. That's how I started: slow habituation, followed by a conscious decision to try to emulate the effects of a different substance.

(Background: my parents did not smoke, though some siblings did, and most of my college friends did too. I would join the latter outside the library when they went out for a smoke, but was never remotely tempted.)

Anyway: I loved smoking; the taste, the effect, the habits, the image, the "lifestyle" -- even after the smoking ban, I loved the going outside and not being sure who you'd end up sitting next to when I got back. A cross between musical chairs and using the smoke to get away from whatever annoying halfwit happened to be next to me.

Thing is, I always knew I'd eventually quit. And I did so after nearly 10 years. And not for health reasons or anything. I had just stopped enjoying them. I'm like Scumlord a bit in terms of life outlook: I didn't/don't prioritise long life for the sake of long life.

In sum:
I started because I wanted to.
I continued because I wanted to.
I quit because I wanted to.

On the plus side, it's like I've gotten a €3.5k pay rise.

And I quit by using snuff, which is dirt cheap, isn't set on fire and inhaled, and has no documented links to lung cancer. Nor indeed documented links to much else, because it's such a minority pursuit that the research hasn't been done. That said, I'm sure it has the potential to cause nasal/oesophageal cancer.

But I'm equally sure that I'll quit the snuff someday, too. You know why? Because I'll want to.

yerayeah

Not sure if anyone has mentioned this but it seems that everyone knows about lung cancer, ischaemic heart disease and stroke but there's a **** load more diseases associated with cancer.

Like COPD and oral, throat, laryngeal, oesophageal, bladder, renal, pancreatic cancers. Then there's Crohn's, gastritis, vascular disease like aneurysms and acute ischaemic limbs...

That's not in any way an exhaustive list either.

ScumLord

Promac wrote: »

You can't kill someone by eating a big mac in the same room.

Maybe you can't.. :cool:

Little Acorn

Hi Liah, you asked what it feels like to be addicted, and some others have asked why/how people start smoking.
I'll just give my story, how I started, why I think I started, and the lame excuses I make to avoid quitting.
This is just my personal experience, so it's probably different for everyone::)

I started smoking when I was really young in secondary school.
I always said that I would never ever smoke, because I saw how sick they made my dad, but I guess I somehow convinced myself that I would never get addicted, and it was all just a bit of a laugh with friends and that no harm would come from it.

It started because the friends I made in secondary smoked, and I decided to give them a go. We would buy a box of fags to share between us, and we would smoke around the back or try to have a sneaky smoke in the bathrooms, at lunch or if we were skipping class.
I don't think any of us thought smoking made us "look cool", but I think it made me feel more grown up, and we would chat to the older girls in the school who smoked too.

There was definitely an element of comradeship to it too. All of our 'group' smoked, and we felt we understood each other when one would say "Oh, I really need a fag after that class!", or if someone was broke we'd be asking for 'butt/mini' of the fag,and sharing them with each other.

I don't think any of us were actually addicted at that early stage though, as I said, it was probably more just a thing that made us feel a bit grown up, and maybe a bit mischievous too because we were breaking school rules.

Then I started smoking at home with my bedroom window open. Alone. We all started buying our own boxes of fags and mostly smoking the box to ourselves, whereas before we would have all shared a box.
I had weekend job during school, and full time job in summer so had my own money, and found myself buying more and more.

I couldn't wait for my mum to go out or go to bed because then I could relax in the sitting room smoking, and she wouldn't smell it because at the time she smoked too [she hasn't now for years].
If I was in school, I couldn't wait for break and lunch to come to get out for my smoke.

23 now and I'm still smoking. About 25 a day, more if I'm out and having a drink. I get really snappy without cigarettes and very emotional for some reason. On the few occasions that I've had to go without cigarettes for a day or so, I've burst into tears and gotten into arguments over the stupidest things.

I did manage to stop before though for about month and a half or 2 months I think, but the cravings never left me. What got to me more though is just that I felt really left out, or like I had somehow changed from being me.
It sounds daft writing it, but it's almost as though smoking cigarettes is part of my identity, all of my friends smoke and when I gave up before they were really supportive, but I felt that being a "non smoker" somehow separated me from my regular lifestyle that I had grown used to and comfortable with.
So yeah I started smoking again.

I know that they are smokers who smoke just because they want to, and don't actually want to stop, I have a few friends of the same mindset.
I want to stop because I want to get more involved in exercise and sport, I want to just feel healthy, fit and full of energy, [I know some smokers still have lots of energy]

I feel they add to my tendency to be lazy. If I'm supposed to be getting ready to out, you can guarantee I'm sitting down smoking and watching telly.
If I'm running late for college in the morning, you will find me sitting down with tea and a fag no matter how late it makes me.
If I'm supposed to be studying, you'll find me smoking and reading Boards [like now]....
I was always good in work though, only smoked at lunch.

So yeah I want to quit, but obviously I don't want it enough because if I did I would have stopped already. I keep putting off the "quit date" because I find reasons that I will need a fag around that time.

For Example:
January>> "I'll need to smoke when I am celebrating new year, and I have 5 friends birthdays that I have to go to that month!"
February>> "I'll stop after Valentines Night Out"
March>>"I'll stop after Paddy's Day"
April>>No excuses really but "I'll wait till after my birthday next month"
May>> Birthday at end of month "I'm stopping after my birthday"
June>> "It's the summer!, I will be out a lot and I want to enjoy my summer!"
July>> Same as above "will quit after the summer"
August >> Same as above
September>> "Oh I'm back at college, I can't add cravings for fags on top of all the other things I need to get organised!"
October>> "I'm throwing a Halloween party, so I'll stop after that"
November>> 2 more friends birthdays, "I'll stop after them"
December>> "I can't be getting all stressed at Christmas Time! Much too much partying to be done! I'll stop in the New Year instead"
Oh wait...................

Pathetic excuses, don't know why I continue to lie to myself by making them every year. I'm going to give it another go in January, regardless of New Years and birthday parties etc. I'm a bit more determined than usual, because I can see what a joke it has become.

Don't get me wrong. There's few things I enjoy more than a relaxing smoke, especially in certain situations, and a cup of tea or else when drinking alcohol,
but I wish I'd never started tbh.

Sorry for long post.

Promac

liah wrote: »

Promac, if you're going to go down that route, theoretically you could also argue that anyone who serves their guests unhealthy/fatty foods at a barbecue is a murderer for possibly contributing to heart disease or a variety of other health issues caused by certain foods, fats, sugars, etc.

Ironically, in one sentence you both made and defeated your own argument.

Impressive.

So you're saying it's ok to smoke because other things also kill you?

"impressive"

Jimmy Bottlehead

Pathetic habit, like any addiction. Nothing but weakness. No loss to society when they croak sooner than most people, IMO.

Hells Belle

What??? Cigs are bad for you?? Why wasn't I informed?

I love saying that to people who tut tut when I'm on my cig break, seriously if me standing outside having a fag upsets you so much you must have a really easy life, fcuk off and mind your own business.

I like smoking and I've no intention to give them up (unless a lung falls out obviously) :eek:

Actually this thread makes me want one now, mmm lovely nicotine.

Jimmy Bottlehead

Hells Belle wrote: »

seriously if me standing outside having a fag upsets you so much you must have a really easy life, fcuk off and mind your own business.

Doesn't bother me anyways, but smokers tend to be the rudest, most inconsiderate pricks - just stand there puffing into other peoples faces, so bloody rude.

Lemegeton

liah wrote: »

I find people with yellow teeth and bad breath more tolerable than those who sit there judging people who are doing nothing to anyone else but themselves.

Superiority complexes are far more off-putting, imho!

utter ****ing bull****. smoking does not affect just the person doing it. everyone around them has to smell it and inhale it, and then their clothes stink too.

Hells Belle

Jimmy Bottlehead wrote: »

Doesn't bother me anyways, but smokers tend to be the rudest, most inconsiderate pricks - just stand there puffing into other peoples faces, so bloody rude.

Yeah the inconsiderate bstards, obeying the law and standing outside to smoke, the feckin cheek of them :rolleyes: