TV's working with Saorview - The List

Shirleysrumbler

It was sold as Full HD and Digital. I was careful of the FULL HD thing as we already have a Philips HD ready TVfrom about five years back. What do you think of the reply Elmo.
Incidentally TV was bought online but note their reference to UK digital in the reply. Should I hit the small claims court?

oceanfroggie

Can 2yo SONY Bravia Flat screen TVs be software upgraded from Mpeg2 to Mpeg4 for Saorview?

If not there seems to be a PCMCIA slot in the back of these TVs, can a PCMCIA card be bought to bring these TVs upto Mpeg4 for Saorview?

Prefer to use the builtin EPG rather than yet another blasted STB and remote. Thanks.

watty

"HD Ready" and "Full HD" do indeed sadly only refer to screen resolution and ability to display via HDMI. A very nastly "logo" concept.

Your ONLY realm of attack is NOT "HD", but if it was sold in Ireland without a Disclaimer that the Digital tuner was incompatible. If so, it's not a TV after 2102, but only an HD Broadcast video Monitor. It won't even do SD via the aerial socket in Ireland.

The issue is NOT HD.

The issue is was it sold as a Digital TV in Ireland without a disclaimer.

watty

oceanfroggie wrote: »

Can 2yo SONY Bravia Flat screen TVs be software upgraded from Mpeg2 to Mpeg4 for Saorview?
.

Absolutely no Setbox or TV ever built can be upgraded from MPEG2 to MPEG4 by software. It needs about x10 to x20 more powerful "chip" (hardware) to decode HD MPEG4 than SD MPEG2.

HW based Converters (so called MPEG4 CAM) for CI slot don't work either. See http://www.saortv.info/terrestrial-saorview/the-black-list/

applewoodgo

watty wrote: »

Argos catalogue Spring / Summer 2011
Read page 384

Only buy TV described as Irish Digital Compatible or with actual Saorview Logo

Harvey Norman instore labelling is despicable.

See this as to why http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056176393

Do not buy a TV in Harvey Norman. They are deliberately under-describing TVs so as to not hurt sales of incompatible TVs. "MPEG4" is Not a suitable description of Compatibility.

There should be NO Tech stuff. No stupid Currys "MPEG2 is OK for UPC/Sky" Rubbish.
No MPEG4 labels.

Just simple clear labelling. But some Dealers are wanting to only sell compatible TVs to those already "in the know" and sell as much obsolete incompatible TVs as possible. In reality all the big chains and many small shops know perfectly well what they are doing!

http://www.saortv.info/terrestrial-saorview/for-retailers/

Not one Limerick retailer is publicly warning About Analogue Switch Off or labelling "on display" TVs properly.

I bought a 26" Techwood from Harvey Norman two weeks ago and having installed an outdoor aerial yesterday, I checked to see if the teletext worked, and yes it does. However, it takes over a minute to load and so do the other pages. The aerial strength and quality are 90% approx. I have a SAMSUNG 40" 1080P LCD TV - LE40C530F1WXX downstairs and it has a very slight delay, about 10secs to load. I rang Harvey Norman today and they say that all their TVs are not MHEG5 compatible. I made the point that I was receiving the new text service but was very slow to load which is why I made the call and suggested that if I could receive the new text service, the it was MHEG5 compatible. He said he would check with their technical people and come back to me. He did so and said he couldn't say for sure if the TV was compatible or not and indicated the problem might be with RTE since the service wasn't fully in service yet. Wouldn't you think that they would have contacted the manufacturer before coming back to me and give a difinite answer. Would be delighted with your comments on this one. If I am getting the new text service, is my TV MHEG5 compatible and if so, is this delay a common problem with the service.

The Cush

applewoodgo wrote: »

If I am getting the new text service, is my TV MHEG5 compatible and if so, is this delay a common problem with the service.

Digital text is MHEG-5. I've seen a Walker certified TV taking quite a while to load the application. Probably depends on the TV.

watty

poor design of the TV. It ought to cache the application and only load data when you hit Text.

The LG here is very quick as is Windows 7

Lucious Sweet

I was just in Harvey Norman in Limerick there a while ago and browsing the tv section. Smiley salesman walks over to me and asks if he could help with anything. I said "yes I am looking for a tv, around 22-26" with Saorview".
His reaction immediately changed and he said "no, we don't have any, ok" and walked away. I was stunned at his reaction because I was expecting the usual spiel about having products in stock.
They must be sick of being questioned about Saorview and hope we just buy their unsuitable obsolete tv's. Well done to Watty and the others who question shops about this. Try it yourselves lads. Go into your local TV shop a ask about Saorview and watch them squirm.

Shirleysrumbler

Remember me? The one who bought the MPEG2 TV ie.the Sony. I'm still arguing with Power City about Digital Tuner and will hopefully have a reply in the post tomorrow. Materialised today that analogue tuner is only UHF and won't tune RTE 1 & 2. This proves TV could never be tuned in ROI without Skybox or STB. I really have to go to small claims court I think if they fob me off again. Also I've spoken to researchers on Eddie Hobb's consumer Show (starting on 12.04) re. doing an article on These "dumped MPEG2" TVs on their show. I'm absolutely ripping at Power City-such a shower of scheisters. Certainally won't deal with them again.

The Cush

Shirleysrumbler wrote: »

Materialised today that analogue tuner is only UHF and won't tune RTE 1 & 2. This proves TV could never be tuned in ROI without Skybox or STB.

I currently own 2 Sony TVs. If the TVs are setup with UK as the country the VHF tuner is disabled, in the Ireland setting the VHF tuner is available. Normal for Sony TVs.

Irish DTT is UHF only. VHF is only used for analogue RTÉ 1 & 2 from 5 of 10 main transmitters and will be gone at the end of 2012. Every other channel, main and relay transmitter use UHF for analogue TV.

Just had a look at the KDL-40S5500 specs, it does have a VHF tuner (46.25 - 855.25 MHz) but only an MPEG-2 MP@ML digital video decoder.

watty

Shirleysrumbler wrote: »

I really have to go to small claims court I think if they fob me off again. Also I've spoken to researchers on Eddie Hobb's consumer Show (starting on 12.04) re. doing an article on These "dumped MPEG2" TVs on their show. I'm absolutely ripping at Power City-such a shower of scheisters. Certainally won't deal with them again.

Do. That TV isn't suitable for Ireland for Analogue or Digital.

Give Eddie Hobbs the links here. We can supply fax or email of the supporting documents. We are supplying the collated info to RTE's Saorview campaign and probably the NCA. It's a disgrace that incompatible TVs not labelled as such since at least April 2008!

See also http://www.wattystuff.net/2011/01/money-back-if-it-isnt-a-tv/

and http://www.saortv.info/terrestrial-saorview/for-retailers/

fat-tony

watty - that TV would seem to be suitable for analogue TV once it's set to Ireland to enable the VHF and UHF tuner range. The purchaser (shirleyshrumble) would have had almost three years of analogue viewing by the time ASO happens late next year. Even if it has no VHF tuner, it could tune in all the available RTE / TV3 analogue services in Bray / South Dublin available from Three Rock in UHF.edit - read more of the manual- has Ireland setting, so will have VHF/UHF tuner. One needs to pick battles that have a reasonable chance of being won. If this was one of the "digital-only" MPEG2 sets dumped on the market, then maybe it would be worth going into battle on the basis that it was unusable a a TV receiver but this would seem to be different as it has a full analogue spec. Page two of the manual has a warning regarding MPEG services:

Notice for Digital TV function

•Any functions related to Digital TV () will only
work in countries or areas where DVB-T (MPEG2)
digital terrestrial signals are broadcasted. Please confirm
with your local dealer if you can receive a DVB-T signal
where you live.
•Although this TV set follows DVB-T specifications,
compatibility with future DVB-T digital terrestrial
broadcasts cannot be guaranteed.
•Some Digital TV functions may not be available in some
countries.

watty

fat-tony wrote: »

edit - read more of the manual- has Ireland setting, so will have VHF/UHF tuner. One needs to pick battles that have a reasonable chance of being won. If this was one of the "digital-only" MPEG2 sets dumped on the market, then maybe it would be worth going into battle on the basis that it was unusable a a TV receiver but this would seem to be different as it has a full analogue spec. Page two of the manual has a warning regarding MPEG services:

Notice for Digital TV function

•Any functions related to Digital TV () will only
work in countries or areas where DVB-T (MPEG2)
digital terrestrial signals are broadcasted. Please confirm
with your local dealer if you can receive a DVB-T signal
where you live.
•Although this TV set follows DVB-T specifications,
compatibility with future DVB-T digital terrestrial
broadcasts cannot be guaranteed.
•Some Digital TV functions may not be available in some
countries.

All agreed. There are no MPEG2 sets without analogue tuner, but some don't have VHF.

But it's no good if it's in the manual and the retailer didn't mark it on Display and packaging that's it's incompatible.

The Shop Display and External Packaging is the implied Contract, not the Manual you can't read till you get it home. Also PUBLIC not told about MPEG2 vs MPEG4 till recently (so manual would be irrelevant) , but TRADE told about MPEG2/MPEG4 issues in March 2008.

You have to pick your fight very very carefully.

fat-tony

watty wrote: »

You have to pick your fight very very carefully.

That paraphrases what I said about picking your battles. The OP of this Sony TV issue states that she/he was "egged on" by the comments on boards regarding dumped MPEG-2 sets. The MPEG-4 technical trial of DTT was in progress at time of purchase (Dec '09). If TV was purchased for RTENL digital, why wait till now to raise the issue? The original comments from the OP were about the HD readiness or otherwise of the set, not MPEG-4 compliance etc. It would appear that the TV is fully functional on analogue transmissions etc. I'm familiar with the Power City setup and what you get is a "wall" of TVs and you pick one after discussing with the floor staff. Unless you had done prior research, you wouldn't know what the capabilities of the set were other than from the sticker info (sparse) and from the floor staff. You don't get to see the box until you collect the TV at the checkout. If it was sold to the OP as an "Irish Digital ready" TV, then fair-enough, there is some merit in her/his claim, but I don't think Power City were advertising any TVs as "Irish Digital ready" until the Walker stuff was approved last year and their technical people started to identify specific TVs that would work to a greater or lesser extent on Saorview. My view is that this was a fully-functional TV in the Irish market at the time of sale with an extra DVB facility which could be used in NI or UK. I've a Panasonic TV just like it which has an excellent HD picture from external satellite and DTT boxes. When I wanted a Saorview compliant TV, I did my research and purchased from Power City:)
... and no I do not work for them!
The key issue here is whether the OP was misled during the purchase of the TV.

watty

Agreed. Also if it goes to Small Claims court you have to prove it.

But in most cases (ALL?) the retail trade HAS known about MPEG2 vs MPEG4 and deliberately NOT put any in shop information or marked unsuitable TVs properly. Only Argos and only in their Spring/summer 2011 catalogue and even then not entirely properly.

Reading between the Lines, it seemed to me that RTE are not impressed with enforcement of existing consumer law about misleading selling and fit for purpose. In regard to "A leading UK Retailer" (their phrase) and proposal to label sets as suitable for "UPC/Sky", their opinion was it was not TV sales at all but Video Monitors miss-sold as TVs. There is only one UK Retailer doing this. We all know who they are.

Harvey Norman is despicable. Their labels prove they know, yet keep the public in the dark.
Currys' UPC/Sky compatible selling campaign is deliberate product dumping.
Tesco's "Freeview not available here" doesn't tell public anything. Some of their sets work and some don't. "Freeview" is irrelevant to labelling.
All the UK retailers have mostly compatible products they refuse to stock in Ireland (Freeview HD)
DVD recorders are sold with no warning.

It's not up to the Public to research MPEG2, MHEG5, MPEG4,MP2, HE-AAC. If a TV is on sale in Ireland and mentions "Digital" in the packaging it has to work or else have a disclaimer stuck on package and shop display (not just in manual) that it's NOT Compatible at all with Ireland's Digital Service. Analogue will cease in Q4 2012.

Now less than two years till ASO, ANY set that isn't able to view MPEG4 HD and do HE-AAC sound should be only sold as a Monitor.

Every single TV selling place is misleading Customers today. None are publically admiting the ASO is in less than two years (visible in shop or TV labels). None are putting warning stickers on incompatible TVs.

None are labelling any stock other than the Saorview Walkers correctly.

There is absolutely NO EXCUSE that every incompatible TV wasn't labelled clearly so, since April 2008, or August 2008 at latest.

Sam Russell

The first adverts from Power City that used the term 'Irish Digital TV ready' were published last April, IIRC. I posted about it at the time.

Shirleysrumbler

fat-tony wrote: »

That paraphrases what I said about picking your battles. The OP of this Sony TV issue states that she/he was "egged on" by the comments on boards regarding dumped MPEG-2 sets. The MPEG-4 technical trial of DTT was in progress at time of purchase (Dec '09). If TV was purchased for RTENL digital, why wait till now to raise the issue? The original comments from the OP were about the HD readiness or otherwise of the set, not MPEG-4 compliance etc. It would appear that the TV is fully functional on analogue transmissions etc. I'm familiar with the Power City setup and what you get is a "wall" of TVs and you pick one after discussing with the floor staff. Unless you had done prior research, you wouldn't know what the capabilities of the set were other than from the sticker info (sparse) and from the floor staff. You don't get to see the box until you collect the TV at the checkout. If it was sold to the OP as an "Irish Digital ready" TV, then fair-enough, there is some merit in her/his claim, but I don't think Power City were advertising any TVs as "Irish Digital ready" until the Walker stuff was approved last year and their technical people started to identify specific TVs that would work to a greater or lesser extent on Saorview. My view is that this was a fully-functional TV in the Irish market at the time of sale with an extra DVB facility which could be used in NI or UK. I've a Panasonic TV just like it which has an excellent HD picture from external satellite and DTT boxes. When I wanted a Saorview compliant TV, I did my research and purchased from Power City:)
... and no I do not work for them!
The key issue here is whether the OP was misled during the purchase of the TV.

Food for thought!!! Changed country to IRL. VHF enabled.Thanks. TBH I didn't know digital FTA TV worked til abt 3 weeks ago. When Sony was bought in 09 digital tuner with HD capability was foremost in my thoughts. TV was bought in good faith but feel I was given a "Pig in a Poke". Feel that Power City will wriggle out of this and would love to nail them . Already had an Analog HD ready TV before this.

fat-tony

Shirleysrumbler wrote: »

Food for thought!!! Changed country to IRL. VHF enabled.Thanks. TBH I didn't know digital FTA TV worked til abt 3 weeks ago. When Sony was bought in 09 digital tuner with HD capability was foremost in my thoughts. TV was bought in good faith but feel I was given a "Pig in a Poke". Feel that Power City will wriggle out of this and would love to nail them . Already had an Analog HD ready TV before this.

It's up to you as to whether you pursue the issue with Power City, but, the way your posts read to me, it would appear that terrestrial digital TV reception was NOT foremost in your thoughts when you bought the TV back in Dec '09 as you now state that you only knew that FTA digital TV was working about three weeks ago. Digital TV was actually in test at the time you bought the TV and could have been checked had you been interested.
Sorry if I'm misconstruing what you are writing, but it comes across to me as if you're adjusting the reality of what your intentions were when you purchased to suit the knowledge you now have.

watty

I'm reminded of the girl in "Rumpole and the Alternative Society"

She was "innocent" till she told Rumpole she was Guilty. Then he refused to defend her.

fat-tony

what a mental image you've conjured up - Watterson of the Bailey:eek:

Shirleysrumbler

fat-tony wrote: »

It's up to you as to whether you pursue the issue with Power City, but, the way your posts read to me, it would appear that terrestrial digital TV reception was NOT foremost in your thoughts when you bought the TV back in Dec '09 as you now state that you only knew that FTA digital TV was working about three weeks ago. Digital TV was actually in test at the time you bought the TV and could have been checked had you been interested.
Sorry if I'm misconstruing what you are writing, but it comes across to me as if you're adjusting the reality of what your intentions were when you purchased to suit the knowledge you now have.

Now Tony, my only crime was laziness, given that I have a sky box connected to the TV since purchase but I have been aware of FTA digital supplanting analogue in tthe nearfuture. As for me being slightly revisionist in my recollections, I will do a thorough examination of my conscience pre any small claim etc. while being mindful of the genesis of Power City and the less than ethical behaviour of the McKenna Group who were a great old crowd for Taping up boxes and applying bubble wrap to goods that often seemed to have fallen off the back of a truck.

qhe0i9zvfgdou8

I'm In the market for a new television, what checks can I carry out in the shop to ensure its fully compliant with saorview.

Also does anyone have any experience with this which I came across on donedeal

http://www.donedeal.ie/for-sale/tv/1790746

watty

Ensure it's using an Aerial and not a Concealed Satellite or Terrestrial Setbox (Maplin very cheekily and dishonestly feed their Incompatible TVs via a setbox for DTT (partially incompatible yet same price as Saorview certified Walker box!).

See does it get RTE news Now and 3e
See if when you press Text on RTE2 and RTE News Now you get text with video in corner and on TV3 and TG4 you get regular Text.
RTE2 should report as 1080i on the status/info of the TV.

Sadly you can't check for HE-AAC audio. The only 100% sure is a set-box or TV with Saorview Certification, but full Launch is not till May 2011, and the next FIVE Brands certified are not out yet.

Totally avoid that "Done Deal" product as it's

• poor quality
• Won't fit some TVs
• Same price or more expensive than Saorview Certified, yet much less compatible
• No MHEG5
• It's actually one the most expensive non-Certified Set-box, not Cheap as they claim Only worth about €45 max

qhe0i9zvfgdou8

Thanks thats great information, as the purchase isn't urgent maybe I'll hold out till a few more makes are approved.

Sam Russell

Nataly Tart Volcano wrote: »

I'm In the market for a new television, what checks can I carry out in the shop to ensure its fully compliant with saorview.

Also does anyone have any experience with this which I came across on donedeal

http://www.donedeal.ie/for-sale/tv/1790746

I've looked at that particular box, and it is good with excellent PQ, but it does not have MHEG 5, but otherwise will do everything you need. It should be a lot less than €99.

It will connect using HDMI or Scart and can record and playback, but the PVR record is a bit clunky. Software might need to be improved.

@sudsand surf - PM me if you want more details.

watty

It's worth about €35 to €40
Total waste of money and rip off and mis-advertised.

The PQ may be OK, but the box is not likely to last. It's poor quality.

Sam Russell

watty wrote: »

It's worth about €35 to €40
Total waste of money and rip off and mis-advertised.

The PQ may be OK, but the box is not likely to last. It's poor quality.

Have you seen one?

watty

I checked out possible sources.
Not held one in my hand.

It's the sort of thing "DealExtreme" in Hong Kong would sell at $50. I didn't check to see if they actually sell one.

It's totally overpriced and mis-sold. I've complained to Done Deal. The ejits told me to contact Garda. They have no clue about Consumer issues. The Garda only apply if it's stolen.

€99 for generic FTA DTT box with no certification or MHEG5!

The Advert is totally inaccurate

This is the only device on the market, which in a small, practical case houses DVB-T receiver and multifunctional multimedia device. The use of this digital receiver is one of the cheapest ways to adapt an older CRT, LCD, or plasma television

http://www.satelliteshop.ie/shop/index.php?option=com_virtuemart&page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage_images.tpl&product_id=44&Itemid=27

No indication of shipping charges or not before registration for Checkout. That's poor too.

Sam Russell

You are arguing about price, not quality. I have actually looked at this actual product and it is not rubbish, or even poor quality. It uses a modern chip-set that works quicker than my LG TV does. It is a low-cost solution (by design) and could be sold for much less than €100. The fact that this particular seller has it at a high price suggests that he is not sourcing it well.

It uses a MicroStar chipset - designed for such an application. It would be ideal to convert an old CRT TV, or to convert an MPEG 2 HD TV as it has both SCART and HDMI outputs. It is not intended to compete with HUMAX or other high-end products. It fits out of sight, takes 8W, and so can be left on all the time.

I am quite impressed with the product, and is of a much higher build quality than the Sagem Picnic box.

watty

Anything would be better quality than the Picnic. Specified by Sky down to basement price.

Whatever about build quality it's double the price it should be and no better than any generic box.