TV's working with Saorview - The List

STB

Richersounds.ie: John wrote: »

I also see various posters saying the CEDA is the trade body for retailers and distributors - this is not actually factual - it's merely the Distributors Body (Consumer Electronics Distributors Association, (CEDA)) and whilst I'm not a member of ANY trade association, I understand that Ceda's remit does not extend to retailers - so both historically and presently, independent retailers have been left to derive the information either from the press, trade partnerships or worse still, manufacturers - it cannot be beyond the ability of the Government to get a database of AV retailers and mail them a factual document including advice & display guidelines - if this was done months ago retailers could have been forced, or at least could not claim ignorance of the looming ASO/DSO and this would have assisted the Consumer greatly.

I agree with the sentiments of your post (epecially given RicherSounds/Phillips Shop proactive and helpful approach to DTT) but I cannot agree with your statement about what CEDA do, dont do and rather what they SHOULD be doing. Some might say they just do not want to know. I could offer my own conspiracy theory as to why they have sat on their hands but it would be just that, a conspiracy theory. The bottom line is that basic requirements should be instantly available off the shelf even if they believe that sure people will just subscribe to Sky or UPC. There does seem to be a lot of finger pointing going on with no real solution being offered.

Lets be very clear. CEDA come under the IBEC banner. They have a very clear line of communication into its retail members.

Retailers

The Dept of Communications wrote to CEDA who in turn wrote a watery yet concise letter (for its time) to its retail members in July 2008 (all about the minimum spec and MPEG4) The letter in its entirity is here for all to read here (as its disapperared off the Digitaltv website).

Most probably disregarded the letter. DTT in MPEG4 has been on for all to test the basic requirements since August 2008.

Manufacturers

Now the CEDA group itself - I'll list them all so we can see who these major manufacturers are.

• Audiovisual Import,
• Dimpco,
• JVC,
• KAL.,
• LG Electronics, (very recent member)
• Panasonic,
• Philips Ireland,
• Sanyo,
• Sharp,
• Sony Ireland.

So these guys here are the ones that have been aware of the Irish minimum spec since Feb 2008.

What did they do to ensure that 3 years down the line we wouldnt have legacy MPEG2 sets or incompatible sets with the wrong middleware (i.e. MHP instead of MHEG5) still openly being sold instead of the same price right products ?

They did nothing. Do they manufacture TVs every three years ? I dont think so.

We still have a situation where when you buy a TV in 2011 you must set your country to the UK in order to switch features on that SHOULD be a part of the basic settings turned on when you choose Ireland as your setup (Joe Soap wont know this). Most manufacturers and distributors ultimately have washed their hands of any involvement up until very recently.

Outside of the recent Sony and Samsung certification products everything else is very hit and miss when buying a new TV.

Why has it been hit and miss ?

Major manufacturers have differed in the implementation of what should be a quite simple pan european packaging process.

Certainly the experiences of products outside certification in 2011 have been -

LG - open use of MHEG5 without choosing UK.
Phillips - UK must be chosen to enable MHEG5 middleware.
Samsung - Some Open/Some UK must be chosen to enable MHEG5 middleware.
Sony - Some Open/Some UK must be chosen to enable MHEG5 middleware.
Panasonic - Irish model (L range) does not have MHEG5 middleware at all and cannot be enabled as its a pan european model which does not include UK as an option.
Sharp products are legacy MPEG2 nevermind having proper middleware or country profiling.
Sanyo - Do they even sell TVs here ?

Now thats some mish mash of country profiling by manufacturers, isnt it ? I think we all know where the buck stops.

Perhaps the new CEDA chairman John Coogan (Phillips) can knowck some heads together and sort out what should be basic tuner requirements and middleware in a so called television. Its time to stop second guessing what the Tv should be used for. Its either a product or its not. That minimum spec is only in the public domain over three years after all.

For many who have recently invested in a TV now for DSO in preparation for ASO, it may be too late, they may have bought a dud and been robbed of its most basic requirements - a digital compatible tuner with the appropriate middleware.

Richersounds.ie: John

STB wrote: »

Lets be very clear. CEDA come under the IBEC banner. They have a very clear line of communication into its retail members.

Retailers

.....

The Dept of Communications wrote to CEDA who in turn wrote a watery yet concise letter (for its time) to its retail members in July 2008 (all about the minimum spec and MPEG4) The letter in its entirity is here for all to read here (as its disapperared off the Digitaltv website).

...............

Now the CEDA group itself - I'll list them all so we can see who these major manufacturers are.

• Audiovisual Import,
• Dimpco,
• JVC,
• KAL.,
• LG Electronics, (very recent member)
• Panasonic,
• Philips Ireland,
• Sanyo,
• Sharp,
• Sony Ireland.

So these guys here are the ones that have been aware of the Irish minimum spec since Feb 2008.

...........

Now thats some mish mash of country profiling by manufacturers, isnt it ? I think we all know where the buck stops.

SB,

again I think you are picking on the wrong guys here:

As I have said earlier - NO statuatory body or CEDA for that instance has written a single letter or sent a single email to either of our retail stores regarding ASO/DSO - We are a Retailer - not associated with CEDA - to be fair to retailers - it would be far easier to deal with the complexities & legal aspects of DSO/ASO if there was an official channel of communications from the Dept of comms or indeed RTENL - I personally spoke & wrote to RTENL regarding the confusion in the marketplace and expressed this opinion and I received the response, yep, not a bad idea but no action - however our UK experience is completely different - there is significant support and information available in advance of ASO in every UK region to allow the retailer adopt an informed approach in a timely manner and thereby offer advice to the Consumer.

I am really supportive of Saorview, technically I think it's excellent & from a business perspective I feel that it will be beneficial - however I feel that it's just too easy to blame retailers for a lack of or poor information, when the statuatory bodies tasked with DSO/ASO have made no real attempt to communicate a unifed message to retailers (again note that CEDA is a DISTRIBUTORS organisation).

I also feel that it's becoming 'mob culture' to blame ALL retailers for dumping non-compliant product - in the 1st instance most retailers (especially independents) keep their stocks so tight that there is no necessity to 'dump' product and of course in the second instance - a retailer has very little input on the design process of vision products and at its most basic a retailer literally is just a sales channel - without doubt, some retailers, especially larger chains have (and are) selling product that should not be in the retail chain today - but again I have to say that in the absence of any advice, assistance and finally control, lazy or irresponsible retailers can either plead ignorance or take advantage of the consumer, however again in my experience I honestly feel that these are very much in the minority at this stage.

If I was to try to bookend this discussion (as I don't feel that this is the correct forum for a prolonged discussion on this subject) I would refer you to the Pat Kenny Show today, and what should have been a rehersed item on saorview, (given it was from the main promoter of the service) was welcome but whilst generally good it was not entirely accurate in all respects - I know that Pat Kenny, personally, is technically very adept, and the article at least alerted his listeners to the service - but at this late stage we need concise and accurate information in a standardised format to all channels - manufacturers, distributors, retailers and of course consumers.

Don't worry - I won't be posting on this subject again

ATVB,

John Mc & Crew

wicklowgaz

Hello Guys,

Unfortunately I was unluckly enough to be landed with one on these! I bought it in November and asked the assistant at the time would it work with RTE's new digital system. He confirmed it would twice. I trusted them, then a few months down the line when I wanted to tune in, I was goosed.:mad:

I am waiting for an answer from the manager having contacted them about this. I have also had to shell out for a walker box.:o
If they dont accept my compliant and refuse to do a refund/swap, I was looking at some CAM modules on ebay that claim to do a conversion job.

Has anyone any experience of these CAM modules? Are they any use?

Many Thanks

Souriau

wicklowgaz wrote: »

Hello Guys,

Unfortunately I was unluckly enough to be landed with one on these! I bought it in November and asked the assistant at the time would it work with RTE's new digital system. He confirmed it would twice. I trusted them, then a few months down the line when I wanted to tune in, I was goosed.:mad:

I am waiting for an answer from the manager having contacted them about this. I have also had to shell out for a walker box.:o
If they dont accept my compliant and refuse to do a refund/swap, I was looking at some CAM modules on ebay that claim to do a conversion job.

Has anyone any experience of these CAM modules? Are they any use?

Many Thanks

CAM is just a waste of money, it will not work... for HD service.

watty

wicklowgaz wrote: »

Hello Guys,

Unfortunately I was unluckly enough to be landed with one on these! I bought it in November and asked the assistant at the time would it work with RTE's new digital system. He confirmed it would twice. I trusted them, then a few months down the line when I wanted to tune in, I was goosed.:mad:

I am waiting for an answer from the manager having contacted them about this. I have also had to shell out for a walker box.:o
If they dont accept my compliant and refuse to do a refund/swap, I was looking at some CAM modules on ebay that claim to do a conversion job.

Has anyone any experience of these CAM modules? Are they any use?

Many Thanks

Get a refund on TV. Under Sale of Goods act you are entitled to Refund/repair/replacement. Up to 2 years.

see http://www.techtir.ie/blog/cinocat4/no-dtt-get-money-back

CAM is not a solution.
See bottom http://www.saortv.info/terrestrial-saorview/the-black-list/

STB

Richersounds.ie: John wrote: »

SB,

again I think you are picking on the wrong guys here:

John Mc & Crew

I am not blaming Richer Sounds or Phillips Store. Both have been proactive from an early stage as have Powercity. The bottom line is that major UK retailers with shops in Ireland have been aware of the spec for a long time regardless of being CEDA members or not. And they should be, it being their business to. Some saw that as a window of opportunity to sell the same products as they sold in UK shops with no Irish stocking policy, despite our different specification. This was all too convenient to ship mass warehoused stock.

Since 2008 when the spec was published we have seen a combination of a few things:

Inaction by the CEDA members group to do anything to influence right product sourcing availability, despite being in the knowledgable position to do so. CEDA where heavily involved in the MPEG4/MPEG2 DCMNR DTT trial in 2007 prior to the launch of sole MPEG4 codec usage in August 2008.

The knock on effect of this inaction was that retailers sourced the wrong equipment, some of which was through the deliberate sale of TVs with incompatible MPEG2 technology tuners through cheaply available UK stock by large UK chains. This MPEG2 SD technology is not even sellable in UK now with the launch of Freeview HD and the more knowledgable UK punter.

No standardisation by manufacturers in the pre-packaging of European models with correct Irish Profile setup options containing the right basic minimum requirements (MPEG4 and MHEG5).

Oh I know who is to blame, alright. Like everything the Irish consumer has bought some nice incompatible gear that would otherwise never have found a home other than still in the distributors warehouse in the UK. Ultimately these same mugged Irish consumers will have to throw more money at certified boxes that are being price controlled by those who got certification at present. That these boxes are a currency exchange after thought from same technology chassis designed for Freeview HD is what gets me! They do not need to be the prices that are being quoted and I have a big problem in which this is being sold to the Irish public.

I see post again and gain here that all have the hallmarks of public muggings at retail counters. TVs are not an everyday expense!

• Audiovisual Import,
• Dimpco,
• JVC,
• KAL.,
• LG Electronics, (very recent member)
• Panasonic,
• Philips Ireland,
• Sanyo,
• Sharp,
• Sony Ireland.

Of these members of CEDA, 3 of these major manufacturers actually have franchised retail brand shops throughout the country. Are you telling me that these havent been in touch with those shops at all regarding suitable product stocking over the last 3 years! As a stakeholder they must have been asleep at the meetings.

No I dont blame retailers 2 years ago, last year maybe, today there is no excuse today for selling televisions with tuners that wont work out of the box ever. Unless you are a greedy retailer and of course are in receipt of large quantities of stock bought up through liquidation sales bought for a song to make a killing on in Ireland if the currency exchange is favourable and the punter is stupid.

I do firmly believe that CEDA havent played their part or being as helpful in ensuring that right products are availble for distribution for whatever reasons. I would like to think its just incompetence but I am not that gullible.

That RTE have dragged their feet for so long has pro longed matters. Having "trial" followed by "test" after "technical test" followed by "full launch in May" hasnt been helpful either.

DTT isnt the be all and end all, but the sale of television products with the basic components for TV reception has to be taken out of the retailers hands. They have already shown that they cant be trusted. Its all nonsense really that I know this and retailers pretend they dont.

Walking into a TV showroom these days is a nightmare. Even the knowledgable cant tell what will work and what wont! They are at the retailers mercy! Certifcation hasnt worked as there hasnt been a huge take up from CEDA members group companies. As a result we have a mixture of TVs, some that will work but not certified and some that will never or will offer limited services.

Richersounds.ie: John

I'm not going to reply in detail as we are in broad agreement on most issues - perhaps you should address your CEDA concerns to Ceda - I know, (with concrete evidence - see how the Philips problem before Christmas was addressed PDQ ) that John Coogan, the new chairman of CEDA is really dedicated to the Saorview programme but again I'm not a CEDA Member.

On the Sony / Pana / Philips brand shops - I can only speak for The Philips Shop (and we are actually an independent retailer but of course we are very loyal to Philips so let's not split hairs here ) but we only have TV's that work with Saorview and that has been the case for some time now and I'm pretty sure that Sony are in a similiar position, Pana - I honestly don't know what the current status is.

That really is my last post on the issue - as an outside observer I feel that this thread should be for TV's working with Saorview - if anyone wants to move these recent posts to another thread, no problem. (or of course mail or PM me directly.

Thanks as ever STB - we seem to be arguing but I think we are pretty much in agreement.

ATVB,

John Mc & Crew

STB

John that you have bothered to reply as a retailer says a lot! Yeah we are in agreement. My posts are as a frustrated outsider looking in! I only noticed this recently when I went to buy a TV! And I consider myself as someone who knows a little about these things.

Yes I didnt actually mean to hijack the thread. It was previous comments as to where the root of the problem lies is where I was in disagreement with - it probably should be moved to the discussion on TVs.

My concerns are about right product sale and right product marking I suppose. I have no concrete proof to back up that CEDA are to blame other than the lack of suitable products being sold here!

Posting on a board is easy. Tackling organisations as to why they are not concerened about consumers is another!

Pat Gleeson

STB wrote: »

And I consider myself as someone who knows a little about these things.

You're selling yourself short there, STB. Along with Watty, probably one of the more knowledgeable posters I've seen anywhere - talking as someone who knows really a little about these things

Sponge Bob

Richersounds.ie: John wrote: »

SB,

again I think you are picking on the wrong guys here:
ATVB,

John Mc & Crew

Emm John, YOU are picking on ME when you meant to pick on STB

Richersounds.ie: John

SB,

you know me - I'm from Walkinstown - always picking a scrap .

Apologies I dropped the 'T' - now fixed!
edit - actually cannot put the T into STB (you know what I mean) as time to edit has passed...

ATB,

J

Sponge Bob

Grand so , I will book a 10% supplementary "reputational " discount over the normal boardsie price now will I ???

arthurfi

Does anyone know if the 32LG3000 can pick up saorview with a firmware update. I see here that the 32LH3000 works fine with the Irish digital stations. I also have a Samsung plasma model number PS50A552S1F. Can this be used to pick up the Irish digital or can a firmware update fix this also.

ste

LG pk350 plays saorview just fine, including text.

I picked up saorview in Dublin CC using a gammy old aerial (not even rabbit ears).

FYI tv is great

paddy147

I haggled on a Techwood 16 inch LED TV today in Harvey Norman.

Got it for 70 euro.:)

It wont work with Saorview (set top box required),but for 70 euro its a cracking little TV.

HD Ready,MPEG4,HDMI and a USB slot.

Pic quality is bang on the button and the sound quality is very good too.Classic,default,movie,games or music settings.

For 70 euro like,its a good little TV for the kids bedroom or even just as a back up TV is your main TV went t!ts up.Or even as a PC monitor.

wicklowgaz

Hello Guys I am getting a return on the MPeg2 Sandstorm TV that Currys sold me - fair play to them. I am thinking of going for this one the it is a UE32C5100 the approved equalivant Samsungs on the Soarview site are all D models . But currys doesnt seem to have these.

Any thoughts on this one guys? I need to get the Soarview right this time round (2nd)!:rolleyes:

Thanks Guys

oppenheimer1

I'd like to confirm that Samsung LE37C650 works with Saorview (inc. MHEG5) on the Ireland setting.

paulclan

This set is about 2 years old and series 3 Samsung.Does RTE mux and MHEG5 digital txt if fooled by setting UK as location.
720p HD ready.
No pixellation was noticed until tonight when Leinster were playing Ulster Rugby Magner's league.RTE2. I guess it was transmitted 1080P.
Any way the set would not really hack super fast rugby, until , that is I switched back to analogue, when motion capture was restored almost perfectly.
I wonder if the picture engine was just too busy converting back down to 720p?
If I buy another 1080p maybe 37" or 40" this time, say the Sony KDL40EX401, I wonder if the effect would still occur.I think this set has Bravia engine 2 as the processor.Complicated old world compared to the old CRT is'nt it?Made me want my old 32" WEGA Sony back again!

winston_1

paulclan wrote: »

I guess it was transmitted 1080P.

You guessed wrong. No one transmits 1080p, too much bandwidth is required.

K3v

arthurfi wrote: »

Does anyone know if the 32LG3000 can pick up saorview with a firmware update. I see here that the 32LH3000 works fine with the Irish digital stations. I also have a Samsung plasma model number PS50A552S1F. Can this be used to pick up the Irish digital or can a firmware update fix this also.

I also have a 32LG3000 and would like to know the same.

K3v

K3v wrote: »

I also have a 32LG3000 and would like to know the same.

I'd suspect not. The H most likely implies that a H.264 (MPEG-4) decoder is present.

Souriau

K3v wrote: »

I also have a 32LG3000 and would like to know the same.

This model not suitable for MPEG-4. UK Freevied SD only, MPEG-2
I had this once and returned it to the shop

wicklowgaz

Hello there guys, i brought the Sandstorm mpeg2 back to currys, They exchanged it no prob even through i bought it in November. Got an exchange of a Samsung insteady it is good for Soarview with the text service,

If you have a problem you should go back, it worked out for me!:D

LordSutch

I have a three year old Samsung 32" LCD, just wondering if I purchase the DVB card that slots into the side, will that convert the TV to mpeg4?

I have a roof top aerial for RTE, so presumably once I put the card in the slot the TV will pick up the RTE digital signal?

Or do I also need a Saorview STB ???

rurs

Not a good idea, can only do SD, even then they run very hot. RTE2 currently in HD resolution, more channels to follow. So not suitable even short-term.

You only need a STB.

LordSutch wrote: »

I have a three year old Samsung 32" LCD, just wondering if I purchase the DVB card that slots into the side, will that convert the TV to mpeg4?

I have a roof top aerial for RTE, so presumably once I put the card in the slot the TV will pick up the RTE digital signal?

Or do I also need a Saorview STB ???

LordSutch

rurs wrote: »

You only need a STB.

I have four TVs/Radios, so I have four STB's already, all mpeg2, all SD, and all doing a great FTA job for me, so the thought of another four boxes will make me cry

Are you sure that the mpeg4 card slots don't work properly (running hot you say)?

Cantona's Collars

LG 42" FULL HD LED TV + SAORVIEW for €499.99 in Currys until 27th April.

http://www.currys.ie/app_themes/shop4nowexpress/Images/contentmisc/Currys%20Approved%20Web%20Press%20FINAL.pdf

http://www.currys.ie/aspx/Homepage.aspx -A few more bargains to be had there.

LordSutch

LordSutch wrote: »

I have four TVs/Radios, so I have four STB's already, all mpeg2, all SD, and all doing a great FTA job for me, so the thought of another four boxes will make me cry

Are you sure that the mpeg4 card slots don't work properly (running hot you say)?

They don't do HD, so no RTÉ 2.

LordSutch

So the Mpeg4 SD card I am talking about will convert my TV into Mpeg4 alright, but I will only get RTE1, and no RTE2 ?

LordSutch

LordSutch wrote: »

So the Mpeg4 SD card I am talking about will convert my TV into Mpeg4 alright, but I will only get RTE1, and no RTE2 ?

It converts the MPEG-4 video to MPEG-2 on the fly so the TV can decode it. Simply put, HD video is too big for it to convert.