Should TG4 be closed down in the 2011 budget?

Mardy Bum

Morkarleth wrote: »

This is something I don't get: Irish is not part of my (and I'm sure many others) cultural identity. Don't presume to speak for me.

I am not speaking for you, I am speaking generally and I am not just talking about cultural identity in relation to language alone but taking into account all its other aspects.

TG4, as well as promoting language, promotes Irish culture which can be seen in its programming schedule and it also brings in American shows to increase viewer numbers.

Culture in the country is dying though so maybe it should be cut. Buy in ABC sure.

Mike 1972

Morkarleth wrote: »

A privately owned website, I might remind you. There's an Irish language forum for those who wish to converse in it, doing so outside it is pure ignorance and a childish sticking the tongue out to those who don't speak it.

You and I would be considered pretty rude were we to go barging into said forun speaking English. If we kept it up we would probabably (and quite deservedly) get a sitewide ban.

twinQuins

In fairness, it was only one post but it's unfair to assume the person being addressed speaks that language. However, considering the nature of this thread it leaves little room for speculation as to the purpose: to antagonise.

Krusader

GizAGoOfYerGee wrote: »

The answer is simple: All public schools in Ireland should be Gaelscoils by 2060!

Not at all, magority of schools should be bilingual, that is more of a realistic prospect and would appease many on both sides,

As regards TG4, it is a cracking little station that shows great documentaries, Ros na Rún is a great soap, up there with corrie, there are shows that appeal to all and sundry on the station.
It's the jewel in the Irish broadcasting industry and don't forget the mná Ghaelacha on it

Mike 1972

Crosáidí wrote: »

Not at all, magority of schools should be bilingual

I thought they were ?

Dostoevsky wrote: »

:rolleyes: Now that's English language fanaticism in action. The intolerance and insecurity underlying it is cringe-worthy.

Which is fair enough provided you are prepared to acknowledge that the insistance (enshrined in an act of the Oireachtas) on Irish only roadsigns in (or pointing to) towns in (often only nominally) Gaeltacht areas amounts to Irish language fanaticism.

Or are you trying to have it both ways ?

purpleorchard

I actually can't believe there is mention of it, it is a disgrace if they do, the only connection we have left, to what our ancestors fought for.... independence and irishness and looking like our independence is nearly gone surely we can stand up for what we are... Irish!
if politicans wages were cut, and the rte big shots then we could make a difference! why are we the only ones suffering and they still have their first class lifestyle!!! When are they going to wake up and see what is happening right under their noses!!

Krusader

Mike 1972 wrote: »

I thought they were ?

Teach different subjects through both tongues then

Zebra3

TG4 gives us the fantastic seven part documentary series on the signatories of the 1916 Rising.

Wtf does RTÉ show? Is Bono Ireland's greatest ever person? Fcuk off RTÉ!!! :mad:

To get back to the OP, first up for cuts has to be politicans' mercs and percs.

Leave it alone, in the grand scheme of things €32 million is chicken feed!

Dostoevsky

Morkarleth wrote: »

You're missing my point - just because the website is Irish owned does not mean one has to speak or even allow the speaking of Irish on it. The owners can decide that.

Ahem. Are you one of the owners of Boards.ie? If not, why are you so concerned about how they run their business? What's the relevancy of all this nonsense to your demand that Irish be removed from this website? That you're getting upset by a single line in Irish is the "fanaticism" here.

Morkarleth wrote: »

Also, you may want to drop the persecution complex, it's juvenile and belittles your position.

And this from the person who's supporting a poster who is intolerant about a single line, a single line, being written in Irish on this thread. Jeeze.

Morkarleth wrote: »

But the person who was addressed in Irish is interested in this topic and to reply to them in a language they don't speak is nothing short of ignorant.

If you get your facts clear, the poster wasn't replying to them: he/she was addressing viewers generally, most of whom appear to have had no difficulty understanding his/her single sentence in Irish. Amazingly.

Morkarleth wrote: »

Ignorance? Really? I find your attitude impudent and ignorant. The implication that if someone can't speak Irish they're ignorant really says a lot about you.

Actually, if somebody cannot speak Irish they obviously are ignorant. Likewise, if somebody cannot understand political issues, economic issues and so forth. Because some people are ignorant of these things, we should ban them all from Afterhours? Everybody is ignorant of some thing - obviously, everybody is ignorant of the vast majority of things. But what you're supporting is the censorship of somebody who does something, in this case writes a single line in Irish, which the "offended" poster claims ignorance of. Nice to see all standards should be lowered to the level of the most ignorant.

Morkarleth wrote: »

Do you really think that being this melodramatic is doing anything for your argument?

From the person who is getting all offended about a single line in Irish ....:rolleyes:

Dostoevsky

Sardonicat wrote: »

I'm not anti-Irish. I just can't speak it! And I don't need to be made to feel like a twit for that by someone who can.

Thank you for your honesty. It's genuinely appreciated.

Mike 1972

Dostoevsky wrote: »

Actually, if somebody cannot speak Irish they obviously are ignorant.

:rolleyes:

Dostoevsky

Morkarleth wrote: »

considering the nature of this thread it leaves little room for speculation as to the purpose: to antagonise.

Insecure nonsense on your part. This paranoia about the motivations of Irish people speaking or writing in Irish does you no favours. Get over it. Irish people speak Irish. It's been spoken in Ireland for quite a long time. There doesn't need to be an alternative agenda for this to happen, regardless of your evident prejudices.

Dostoevsky

Mike 1972 wrote: »

:rolleyes:

Nice selective editing there designed to distort the meaning of the post. If people can't speak French, Chinese etc they're also obviously ignorant of those things.

donna.s

Get rid of it

Krusader

Dostoevsky wrote: »

Insecure nonsense on your part. This paranoia about the motivations of Irish people speaking or writing in Irish does you no favours. Get over it. Irish people speak Irish. It's been spoken in Ireland for quite a long time. There doesn't need to be an alternative agenda for this to happen, regardless of your evident prejudices.

You are best to walk away from the argument, some people just hate the language. There is an Fórám Lán-Ghaeilge and if writing in Irish in an English thread it is customery to translate it, otherwise the vultures will be on your back, its just the way it is

twinQuins

Dostoevsky wrote: »

Ahem. Are you one of the owners of Boards.ie? If not, why are you so concerned about how they run their business? What's the relevancy of all this nonsense to your demand that Irish be removed from this website?

Point out where I said such a thing or retract that statement. I do not appreciate having my position misrepresented.

That you're getting upset by a single line in Irish is the "fanaticism" here.

You brought up Sardonicat's remark. And I'm hardly "getting upset" when I'm not the one carrying a persecution complex.

And this from the person who's supporting a poster who is intolerant about a single line, a single line, being written in Irish on this thread. Jeeze.

You keep using the word "intolerant" but this is hardly the appropriate way to use it.

If you get your facts clear, the poster wasn't replying to them:

Alright, I was wrong about that.

he/she was addressing viewers generally, most of whom appear to have had no difficulty understanding his/her single sentence in Irish. Amazingly.

Most? How do you know that? Because no one else bothered to say anything? It does not change the fact that there was little need for it and the post could easily have done without it.

Actually, if somebody cannot speak Irish they obviously are ignorant.

And how did you come to that conclusion?

Likewise, if somebody cannot understand political issues, economic issues and so forth.

There are some political and economical issues that are more esoteric than others and which the average person would not understand. The two are not comparable.

Because some people are ignorant of these things, we should ban them all from Afterhours?

There are forums for politics and economics where people can have serious discussions on the subjects. For the most part discussions on politics and economics, in AH, solely concern immediate issues which would effect a majority of people and which are easily grasped by most people.
For myself, yes, I would prefer if they were kept out of AH but not for the reasons you've posted. If there exists an appropriate forum then discussion should be kept on that forum.

Everybody is ignorant of some thing - obviously, everybody is ignorant of the vast majority of things. But what you're supporting is the censorship

Once again, back up that statement or retract it. Asking for them to speak English on a forum where the majority, if not all, people speak it and would not speak Irish is not unreasonable nor is it censorship by any definition of the word.

of somebody who does something, in this case writes a single line in Irish, which the "offended" poster claims ignorance of. Nice to see all standards should be lowered to the level of the most ignorant.

Keep up the insults, they really do a lot to bolster your argument.

From the person who is getting all offended about a single line in Irish ....:rolleyes:

I'm not offended but I think you're seeing what you want to see and I think you will continue to, despite whatever I may say.

Crosáidí wrote: »

otherwise the vultures will be on your back, its just the way it is

Vultures? Really?

Mike 1972

Dostoevsky wrote: »

If people can't speak French, Chinese etc they're also obviously ignorant of those things.

Yes if you want to be ludicrously literal in your meaning of the word "ignorant" anyone who cant fluently speak all the thousands of languages spoken on planet earth today along with the thousands (millions ?) of extinct ones and any which might not have been invented yet is "ignorant"

Now that weve established that everyone who has ever lived is(/was) "ignorant" the term has kinda lost all meaning has it not ?

Krusader

Morkarleth wrote: »

Vultures? Really?

Did i stutter??

twinQuins

Dostoevsky wrote: »

Insecure nonsense on your part.

Care to expand upon this? You keep using "insecure" without explaining how the views you oppose are, exactly, insecure.

This paranoia

More hyperbolic waffle.

about the motivations of Irish people speaking or writing in Irish does you no favours.

I commented on the actions of one poster. One. Stop misrepresenting what I say.

Get over it. Irish people speak Irish.

Some Irish people speak Irish, most don't.

It's been spoken in Ireland for quite a long time. There doesn't need to be an alternative agenda for this to happen, regardless of your evident prejudices.

I'll thank you to explain this. Because I commented on one posters usage of the language, on a thread about a station that uses that language? Is that it?
It's starting to look like you're throwing around some mud and hoping it'll stick.

Crosáidí wrote: »

Did i stutter??

I just think it says a lot about you that you refer to such people as "vultures".

Capt'n Midnight

Venom wrote: »

RTE, TV3 and TG4 should each get 1/3 of the licence fee and not a penny more from public finances. The millions RTE wastes in paying its so called "top people" from a fund the public have no choice but to pay due to the law really is an outrage.

Level the playing field for all the various media outlets supported by public funds and let them sink or swim on the quality they produce just like every other business in the country.

TV3 are already entitled to a large slice of the money

all they have to do is create Irish programs instead of foreign imports

Mike 1972

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

all they have to do is create Irish programs instead of foreign imports

regardless of quality ?

Capt'n Midnight

Mike 1972 wrote: »

$ky/UPC/etc seem to think they are

the killer app for them is live sports events where language is relatively unimportant

Krusader

Morkarleth wrote: »

I just think it says a lot about you that you refer to such people as "vultures".

that's fine, I won't lose sleep over it

Wibbs

I'm not exactly a standard bearer for the pro Irish side around here, but if I was cutting budgets it would be the very last TV station I would be going after, by a long shot. It does wonders with its budget, has great documentaries and films and has a high viewing figure considering the number of Irish speakers out there. It actually gives value for money which is a bit of a shock for most of us. OK it does have that irish country and western programme that is hilarious and embarrassing in equal measure and the odd interview with some superannuated nun or whatever that redefines dull, but in the main it has a very high quality output. Considering its budget and that of RTE? No contest. Shít I've even watched Ros na Run the odd time and not in a wholly ironic way either:)

LK_Dave

Sell it off with RTE, if it can not be sold then shut its lossing making ass down plus scrap the TV license fee thus freeing every household and the majority of businesses from this cultural tax.

Megatron_X

I think TG4 is a very good station, not because of some Irish shows but it has a high quality of any kind of show.

Mike 1972 wrote: »

Yes if you want to be ludicrously literal in your meaning of the word "ignorant" anyone who cant fluently speak all the thousands of languages spoken on planet earth today along with the thousands (millions ?) of extinct ones and any which might not have been invented yet is "ignorant"

Now that weve established that everyone who has ever lived is(/was) "ignorant" the term has kinda lost all meaning has it not ?

To be ignorant towards something is to lack knowledge of said thing. In a broad general term it's effectiveness is lessened but it is specifically being used to show that people who can't speak Irish are ignorant to the language. They lack knowledge of it, that being the reason they can't speak it, obviously.

I think people's bad experiences with the Irish language affects their tolerance of/reactions to its use.

I know if I write something in Irish it's because the topic I'm discussing is greatly related to Irish as a language and as their aren't many opportunities to use Irish (at least not for me), I wouldn't hesitate to write in Irish. I don't write in Irish to exclude/include certain people, I do it for myself, and it's usually accompanied be a translation (although if I couldn't understand Irish I'd find a translation condescending, a person's ignorance shouldn't be expected).

People don't get as angry/annoyed if they see something written in a different non-English language, such as French, as they do if they see Irish (even in a general forum such as After Hours). If someone doesn't understand a language they shouldn't asume they are being excluded on purpose, if it makes someone feel like an idiot I think that's the readers fault. It's a fact you don't understand a language, not an insult, and it's not my intention to even bring up that fact by writing in Irish, or any other language.

Mike 1972

Wibbs wrote: »

I'm not exactly a standard bearer for the pro Irish side around here, but if I was cutting budgets it would be the very last TV station I would be going after, by a long shot.

Same here.

Its biggest achievement is that it reminds everyone just how terrible RTE1 and 2 actually are.

RTE's apologists have always resorted to using TV3 as a yardstick/protesting that they dont have the kind of income the BBC enjoys/drawing the "patriotism" card. Yet the fact that TG4 can produce far higher quality programming (even if one usually needs to turn down the sound and switch on teletext subtitles to follow them) on a fraction of RTE's budget exposes these arguments for the nonsense they are.

yoshytoshy

As said by others ,cut RTE's budgets. We need more of the likes of TG4 ,forget about tubridy and all them floosy's.

Krusader

Megatron_X wrote: »

People don't get as angry/annoyed if they see something written in a different non-English language, such as French, as they do if they see Irish (even in a general forum such as After Hours).

Never a truer word spoken