University Fees

Strata

Long Term Louth wrote: »

No I dont see the light as this is benefit to assist the child in the here and now, I respect your comments but until you know what is required as a parent, you are not really in a position to comment.

I was wondering when that silly line would be trotted out!

LolNoob wrote: »

A highly educated workforce is one of the main reasons we had such a wave of international investment in this country which benefitted EVERYONE. We were, at one point, one of the richest countries in Europe. Christ, we're still paying binmen €30k+ per year for a dragging plastic carts to a lorry and hooking it up to a handle. There's an awful, awful lot of areas we can pull the rug from under before we touch education. Dumb down our workforce and the country is ****ed long term.

I understand there are a lot of bitter unemployed people, people who've wasted their college opportunities, people who never went because the high salaries for unskilled labour were so attractive at the time (not so long ago) posting here who might not understand the sheer value of our education here, however before we even look at college fees we may trim down everything else that is draining our economy.

For a start, we can cut the dole down again. €200 to sit around on your arse when the cost of living hasn't been so low in years? Get out of it. €100 and the "work for dole" scheme should be brought in asap to expose the real wasters in this country. Trim down the HSE, civil and public service down to its minimum and then pay those who are there based on the skills they have and the value they add to this country, not how long they've been there and how much their silly unions say they should be paid.

Again, the very last asset of this country that should be touched is our education. Although, thankfully, most in the education system will get out of here once they're done thanks to the mess the rest of you have put us in.

So basically everyone else should suffer so long as your not affected personally.

You'll then emigrate immediately after finishing college without giving anything back to the country which paid for your childcare and education.

You see that kind of selfish attitude is why we are in the state we're in - such me feinism!

Asher Vast Hippy wrote: »

But why do you want to see it introduced, you even said it may prevent you from finishing your degree. Thats nonsensical talk, you should be strongly against the reintroduction. So what if someone is taking advantage, just worry about yourself and as things are its much better for you personally to have free fees.

I cant believe you would rather see fees introduced and be unable to complete your degree than leave things as they are and get your degree. Your not well if thats how you feel.

Again with the selfishness - a true sign of the Celtic Tiger Cub.

Asher Vast Hippy wrote: »

Think about all the VAT and excise duty on drink the government will lose out on if there are less students or students cannot go out as much because of fees..

Bet you didn't think of that.[/QUOTE]

If you want to argue that then what about all the savings to the health service from less alcohol related injuries/diseases!!

Asher Vast Hippy wrote: »

Parents will also have less money for spending so at the end of the day you are taking money in one area and losing it in another, people cannot understand this concept though.

Whats wrong with students having a good time once they get the work done. There are some very very sad people out there obviously.[/QUOTE]

To be honest I don't really care what students do in their spare time to amuse themselves so long as I'm not paying for it by paying their third level fees. If you've enough money to pay for socialising you can afford to contribute to your fees.

muffy wrote: »

Blah Blah Blah students are drunk rabble rabble. So what? Maybe they earned the money to go on the piss from a part time job? Maybe they work jobs at weekends so they socialise mid week? Maybe they have rich parents and even when they have to pay fees, they'll go out 3 nights a week? Maybe when they have to pay fee's, but get theirs covered by a grant, they'll go out 3 nights a week?
I go out mid week because I work 20hrs + in a job on the weekend, and I have thursday mornings off. Just because people go out mid week doesn't mean they have lots of money?!

Asher Vast Hippy wrote: »

I worked 2 days a week during college, worked all through the summers and lived at home. I could always afford to go out, and buy a few things but whats wrong with that. Why did I not deserve the right to go out and enjoy myself I worked hard for the money.

Why shouldn't students have to use their income to pay for their education? Why do you expect othes to pay for you?

I also work hard for my money - and by your reckoning "deserve the right to go out and enjoy myself". Unfortunately I have less disposable income because I'm funding free third level education.

Asher Vast Hippy wrote: »

But going out and enjoying yourself is part of college too, Why should I have to spend the money I worked for on something that should be provided for me.

So your education is only important enough once other people are paying for it but not worth it if you have to pay for it yourself?

And where did this notion come from that nights out are a God given right??

muffy wrote: »

Oh you assume do you? I live at home, I cannot afford rent. The money I am making now (these are my xmas hours in work) is saving to pay my rent and my way come January when I go to Spain to study on Erasmus (awaits barrage of abuse for this).Who are you to tell me what to do with my money? You don't have the faintest idea what expsenses I might have. This post is laughable, you seem to have me pegged as some sort of moany southsider? I's appreciate less of the snide implications please. I currently get nothing off the government only my fee's.

What more exactly do you expect from the Government??

You say that other people can't have the faintest idea what expenses you have - as a matter of interest what expenses do you have as a student besides for the usual?

muffy wrote: »

And I believe it was you playing the destitute card, saying you might not be able to complete your degree if fees came back. I just will not see my money going towards a black hole in the economy that is the result of greed and cronyism in this country. And that is my right too. Just beacause I might not starve to death if they bring back fee's doesn't mean I won't be significantly out of pocket.

But it's OK for everyone else to have to contribute to the black hole. Just not you or students in general.

What do you mean by "significantly out of pocket" are you implying that you do actually have the money you just don't want to spend it on your education?

SueGrabbit wrote: »

I don't know what course you're studying.

But I have 36 hours of lecture/lab/tutorial time during my week, and i'm cramming for xmas exams already.

So I either you did Arts or you skipped a serious amount of college and studying time to work.

Not all of us are priveleged to be studying a slackers course most of us are in there and doing what should be done.

The difference between a first and a two-one at the end of the degree can mean a job.

That's quite a snobbish attitude. What course are you doing that requires such intelligence that you feel you have a right to look down on Arts students?

ILA wrote: »

Nothing about those who commute 30 miles to college paying €50 p/week for a bus and arise at 7.45am and don't home till 6.15pm. I've to do this everyday, and never go out as it pretty much kills any realistic social life.

Welcome to the real world my friend!

ILA wrote: »

Now I've to pay €2,500 for the priveledge each year. I agree others seem to be able to swan around and piss away their time, but there's plenty of students who aren't like that but who will be negatively affected by fee increases.

We don't all live in lush accomodation in D4 college bliss.

So you acknowledge that third level education is a privilege yet still expect to get it for free?

flash1080

melekalikimaka wrote: »

and you think this doesnt apply to every other kid in similar situations in other countries where fees arent free. if fees come back, loan systems will inevitably be introduced to accommodate these issues.

Fees are here, €1500/year. Fees are supposedly going up to €2500 next year, and will probably keep increasing. We don't have a loan system like in other countries.

ILA

melekalikimaka wrote: »

what makes you feel education should be free?

I guess because it's the natural progression and is steadily becoming a necessity in society if you ever want to get anywhere in life.

Its either the dole or education. Why should people be penalised with extortionate fees for trying to improve themselves while they could just vegetate on the dole for life?

Firehen

melekalikimaka wrote: »

what makes you feel education should be free?

Not free, but as close to free as possible. With regards to college fees, they're rather pricey. It would widen the gap between rich and not so rich in society. I know I wouldn't have been able to finish my degree with full fees in place, and we weren't exactly impoverished.

I'm no socialist but with regards to education everyone should have equal opportunity. Its not like you have the chance to have 25 grand or so in spare cash lying about when you're a teenager.

flash1080

The funny thing is there are a lot of people who received free education who are now selfishly supporting the increase in fees because they've gone through the system. Pathetic.

melekalikimaka

ILA wrote: »

I guess because it's the natural progression and is steadily becoming a necessity in society if you ever want to get anywhere in life.

Its either the dole or education. Why should people be penalised with extortionate fees for trying to improve themselves while they could just vegetate on the dole for life?

natural progression of what? leeching? this isnt star trek and everythings free. the country cant afford free fees, its something thats a privilege not something anyone is entitled to, why do you think irish citizens are above most the world in that regard? true some countries offer some degree of free fees, but the can AFFORD IT, we however can no longer afford it.

Copper23

I have to say, this thread is making me laugh no end.

Look at the ridiculous arguement... Students spend more money in a bar than a working professional. lol... Students go where there are promotions, concessions, free entry, free shots, etc... Look at Galway and the system they have as an example of they really can work this.

Now look at the average student... drinks cheap at home then goes out to the club/latebar LATE. There's a good chance a lot of them bring nagins and stuff (not knocking it, I did it myself as a student). By your calculations, its takes 3 nights to wrestle 40euro from a student.

Look at any major bar at the weekend that likes to keep a Working Professional type of crowd, lets say i need friends at 9 and am out until 2am. Do you know how easy it is to drop 90 euro, people going rounds getting doubles, mixed drinks, cocktails, and so on.

But sure why ruin a good arguements by looking at the reality.

Clubs/Pubs who do not earn enough from the over 23's, its usually because there is something wrong and the older/mature crowd does not want to go there.

I won't even go into the irony of people getting grants and wasting them never actually going to college or achieving a degree because they "deserve it". Thats a whole other topic in itself.

melekalikimaka

Firehen wrote: »

Not free, but as close to free as possible. With regards to college fees, they're rather pricey. It would widen the gap between rich and not so rich in society. I know I wouldn't have been able to finish my degree with full fees in place, and we weren't exactly impoverished.

I'm no socialist but with regards to education everyone should have equal opportunity. Its not like you have the chance to have 25 grand or so in spare cash lying about when you're a teenager.

as has been mentioned manytimes before, if fees were brought in (full fees - circa 6- 10k per year), government load schemes would be introduced to cover these so as to prevent a divide based on rich/poor

Kimono-Girl

flash1080 wrote: »

The funny thing is there are a lot of people who received free education who are now selfishly supporting the increase in fees because they've gone through the system. Pathetic.

Funny thing is alot of people who are against the fee's are selfishly thinking that the tax payer owes them something, and think they are entitled to a 3rd level education when they are not!

flash1080

Kimono-Girl wrote: »

Funny thing is alot of people who are against the fee's are selfishly thinking that the tax payer owes them something, and think they are entitled to an education when they are not!

When students graduate they'll be paying for it with their income tax.

perri winkles

melekalikimaka wrote: »

natural progression of what? leeching? this isnt star trek and everythings free. the country cant afford free fees, its something thats a privilege not something anyone is entitled to, why do you think irish citizens are above most the world in that regard? true some countries offer some degree of free fees, but the can AFFORD IT, we however can no longer afford it.

Just curious, but you said you did a course before the one your paying for now in Griffith. Who paid for the first one exactly?

Kimono-Girl

flash1080 wrote: »

When students graduate they'll be paying for it with their income tax.

and if they don't? if they emigrate?

the fact is if you were lucky enough to be around during the free fee's then you should appreciate it, be grateful...etc

if you are around now they have to bring fee's back, its just bad timing on your parents part, take it up with them and demand they pay....since they 'owe you'.


either way, the government does not have to, or can afford to pay fee's and students will have to learn to accept not everything in life comes as easy as they have been having it!

melekalikimaka

perri winkles wrote: »

Just curious, but you said you did a course before the one your paying for now in Griffith. Who paid for the first one exactly?

the tax payer. who else?

Sonnenblumen

Asher Vast Hippy wrote: »

You are talking absolute nonsense, you haven't got a clue.

Whats research?

Research is why you have a pc, research is why you have wifi and why you have bloody light in your house. Its whats going on now to try and improve the internet speeds and reduce costs so you can come on here and put your clueless point across every faster and for less or trying to come up with cures for diseases which people said could never be cured.

Without research you have nothing, zero.

The ignorance and down right stupidity of people to what actually goes on behind the scenes in university's is mind boggling.

The products you reference, how much input did Irish research have in the commercialisation? If that's the best you can reference as examples of Irish research, well the situation is even more dire? A significant amount of the research is much to do with wire pulling, and I do agree what goes on behind the scenes is mind boggling! Without wire pulling academics, the students might get more class time, better grades and at less cost.

Sierra Oscar

Poll shows majority in support of free third-level education

A majority of Irish people think third-level education should remain free, according to a new poll.

Some 77% of those quesstioned in a new Red C Poll believe the State should continue to provide free tuition to third-level students.

Our own poll here is not too far off the Red C!

perri winkles

melekalikimaka wrote: »

the tax payer. who else?

So now that you've gotten your free ride through college, you feel its ok to reintroduce fees.

Honestly, if you were a new student starting out, without a degree behind you, would you be in favour of the fees being brought back in?

flash1080

Kimono-Girl wrote: »

and if they don't? if they emigrate?

the fact is if you were lucky enough to be around during the free fee's then you should appreciate it, be grateful...etc

if you are around now they have to bring fee's back, its just bad timing on your parents part, take it up with them and demand they pay....since they 'owe you'.


either way, the government does not have to, or can afford to pay fee's and students will have to learn to accept not everything in life comes as easy as they have been having it!

If we raise fees to €2500 (and it will continue to increase) they might leave sooner and study in the UK. I certainly would have gone to the UK if I had to pay €2500 to go to college here. It's really not "free fees" with people paying €1500/year, there's nothing free about that.

melekalikimaka

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

Poll shows majority in support of free third-level education



Our own poll here is not too far off the Red C!

i'd say you could do a poll asking who would like to fly and you'd get similar results... but still doesn't mean its possible.

there will be serious implications if we do not curb our expenses, tbh, i think this is better to cut then healthcare or child support

AlmightyCushion

Sonnenblumen wrote: »

The products you reference, how much input did Irish research have in the commercialisation? If that's the best you can reference as examples of Irish research, well the situation is even more dire? A significant amount of the research is much to do with wire pulling, and I do agree what goes on behind the scenes is mind boggling! Without wire pulling academics, the students might get more class time, better grades and at less cost.

Just off the top of my head, Havok are a company that started out as a research project and is now used in lots of games and films. I remember seeing something about a group of college students in galway did some important research that could help make better rocket fuel in the future. There are probably lots more that I don't know of.

Edit: I forgot about John Breslin (Cloud here on boards) in Galway doing work on the symantic web.

The Waltzing Consumer

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

Poll shows majority in support of free third-level education



Our own poll here is not too far off the Red C!

Just to ask, is there a difference in these polls as what counts as fees? Is a registration fee they are asking about or just tuition fees?

Surely, if the protest is at this registration fee increase, then a poll should be asking about that type of fee, rather than tuition fees?

Sierra Oscar

flash1080 wrote: »

If we raise fees to €2500 (and it will continue to increase) they might leave sooner and study in the UK. I certainly would have gone to the UK if I had to pay €2500 to go to college here. It's really not "free fees" with people paying €1500/year, there's nothing free about that.

As far as I am aware, college fee's are increasing drastically in the UK - I have had people who attend college in the UK tell me it would be cheaper for them to study here in Ireland.

Kimono-Girl

flash1080 wrote: »

If we raise fees to €2500 (and it will continue to increase) they might leave sooner and study in the UK. I certainly would have gone to the UK if I had to pay €2500 to go to college here. It's really not "free fees" with people paying €1500/year, there's nothing free about that.

and if you could not afford it here how could you afford college there?

melekalikimaka

perri winkles wrote: »

So now that you've gotten your free ride through college, you feel its ok to reintroduce fees.

Honestly, if you were a new student starting out, without a degree behind you, would you be in favour of the fees being brought back in?

i've been part of the system, i've seen the disgusting waste of money on students who do nothing, drop out or scrape by, drinking grants away. i cant tell you if i was starting out again if i'd think differently, i would hope i would think the same. but that it irrelevant, unless you are trying to point out the large anti fee sentiment is due to individuals selfish motives to suit themselves and screw the bigger picture... which tbh is obvious but didnt wanna cause a sh1tstorm

prinz

perri winkles wrote: »

So now that you've gotten your free ride through college, you feel its ok to reintroduce fees.Honestly, if you were a new student starting out, without a degree behind you, would you be in favour of the fees being brought back in?

Of course not, but that changes nothing. It's like a company reducing wages, just because someone was paid €x for a certain job two years ago you cannot demand that you get €x this year, if wages had to be cut. It's crap, but it's life.

prinz

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

As far as I am aware, college fee's are increasing drastically in the UK - I have had people who attend college in the UK tell me it would be cheaper for them to study here in Ireland.

I have had people from the States tell me it would be cheaper for them here, despite paying a huge amount more than your average Irish student, and taking into account cost of flights home for holidays, cost of living here etc.

Strata

Strata wrote: »

Why shouldn't students have to use their income to pay for their education? Why do you expect othes to pay for you?

I also work hard for my money - and by your reckoning "deserve the right to go out and enjoy myself". Unfortunately I have less disposable income because I'm funding free third level education.

The 1000's and 1000's of euro that my parents pay every year in tax is what goes toward paying my fees and the 1000's I will have to pay when I am working thats what. You are talking utter crap tbh. The percentage of the tax you pay which goes towards education in comparison with other areas is tiny.

Sonnenblumen wrote: »

The products you reference, how much input did Irish research have in the commercialisation? If that's the best you can reference as examples of Irish research, well the situation is even more dire? A significant amount of the research is much to do with wire pulling, and I do agree what goes on behind the scenes is mind boggling! Without wire pulling academics, the students might get more class time, better grades and at less cost.

Your talking pure crap absolute gutter on a topic you obviously know less than nothing about. Ireland has an excellent research community. Some of the best people in their field are now in Ireland conducting research. Do you read the papers. There is collaborations between Irish research institutions and private company's announced regularly which is creating lots of jobs and bring money into the economy.

I work in research I know how good some of the work being done in Ireland is in some of the topics mentioned above. You don't so don't pretend to know anything about it.

flash1080

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

As far as I am aware, college fee's are increasing drastically in the UK - I have had people who attend college in the UK tell me it would be cheaper for them to study here in Ireland.

Funnily enough, I know someone for whom it was actually cheaper to study in the UK than here, and got a much better quality education. With the proposed rise to €2500, it would actually be cheaper for me to study what I studied in the UK.

Kimono-Girl wrote: »

and if you could not afford it here how could you afford college there?

People who could afford it would be much more likely to emigrate.

prinz wrote: »

I have had people from the States tell me it would be cheaper for them here, despite paying a huge amount more than your average Irish student, and taking into account cost of flights home for holidays, cost of living here etc.

I have had people from the States tell me it would be cheaper for them to study in the US.

melekalikimaka

flash1080 wrote: »

I have had people from the States tell me it would be cheaper for them to study in the US.

as said before non nationals fees are usually in the 10s of thousands

prinz

flash1080 wrote: »

I have had people from the States tell me it would be cheaper for them to study in the US.

Good for them, care to compare the average cost of a third level education state-side and here?

JonB

melekalikimaka wrote: »

i've been part of the system, i've seen the disgusting waste of money on students who do nothing, drop out or scrape by, drinking grants away. i cant tell you if i was starting out again if i'd think differently, i would hope i would think the same. but that it irrelevant, unless you are trying to point out the large anti fee sentiment is due to individuals selfish motives to suit themselves and screw the bigger picture... which tbh is obvious but didnt wanna cause a sh1tstorm

So by that logic we should scrap it due to the wasters who do nothing? What about the people that do actually try. By your logic there we might aswell scrap the dole, as there are people on the dole who won't even try for a job.