Jack Russell Puppies - Tail Docking thoughts???

CreedonsDogDayc

oh cant wait to see pics!!

If I were you i'd make it a feature when advertising the pups (if you have to advertise them).

Say something along the lines of "we love these puppies like they are our own dogs, and we've made sure that they haven't come to any harm. We are against painfully removing a pups tail for cosmetic reasons, so these little babies come with a fluffy wagging tail at no extra charge!! "

By the way www.pedigreedogs.ie is an ethical breeders site for advertising on!

Vel

In future to avoid wondering if you are going to be able to sell your litter with the tails docked/undocked it might be a good idea to have good homes already lined up for any prospective pups (who know you won't be docking) before you decide to even breed your bitch, which is what responsible breeders should be doing anyway

amacachi

Prefer the full tail, my current mutt has one, makes for entertainment everytime he gets food. :pac: That said, I used to have a Jack Russell and he's next door now and the short tail does suit him, may be because he's over 18 years old and I couldn't imagine him differently though. :pac:

Discodog

dahat wrote: »

a vet.........

http://www.veterinaryireland.ie/Links/PDFs/Policies/Tail%20Docking%20in%20Dogs%20and%20other%20Acts%20of%20Mutilation%20in%20Animals%20%20-%2028.2.08.pdf

This is clause 8 from your link:

"8. Why not make allowances for prophylactic docking for working dogs only? Is it
not better to remove the tail as a puppy rather than leave it open to injury later in
life?

There is no scientific evidence to show that undocked working dogs damage their tails
any more than undocked non-working dogs. A seven year study at the University of
Edinburgh Royal (Dick) School of Veterinary Studies showed insufficient evidence of
statistical significance to suggest a positive association between tail injuries and
undocked tails (Darke et al, 1985). In other words the risk of tail injury is equal in working
dogs compared to non-working dogs and thus there is no argument to say that an
exception should be made for working dogs only – all dogs whether working or not are at
equal risk to tail injury."

Clause 7 states that a Vet who docks "would be in breach
of the Guide to Professional Behaviour and would thus be open to disciplinary action by
the Veterinary Council. "

They also state that any tail docking that is not done for strictly medical reasons is mutilation & a Vet should not do it. Docking is not being taught at Vet schools any more.

Tranceypoo

dahat wrote: »

currently it is still legal to dock tails and while it is i will continue to do so.

Well, good for you dahat, many things are still 'legal', does not make them morally right.

Discodog

If his Vet refuses to dock there is another alternative & it's not nice.

From the above link:

"4. How is tail docking done in puppies?

In general when a non-vet performs this act they use no anaesthesia or pain relief.
It would be unlikely that they adequately prepare and disinfect the surgical site or use
sterile instruments and surgical gloves/drapes etc. Obviously there is no professional
aftercare or provision for antibiotic therapy should an infection set in.

Usually a knife is used to cut the tail at a point considered ‘acceptable’ by the breeder. A
Stanley knife is often used but commonly a ‘crushing/cutting’ device such as pliers is
used. Less commonly a rubber band is applied around the tail thus cutting off the blood
supply to the part of the tail distal to the band which then dies and falls off in several days
to a few weeks. "

January

SupaDupaFly wrote: »

Thanks for all the great input guys, I'm glad people are changing their opinions on the whole docking situation. Hopefully the tradition will die out sooner rather than later. I'm so glad I haven't docked their tails. They are so perfect the way they are.

Glad to say I have found a lovely home for one of them today. I didn't want to start a debate on the pros and cons of docking as I stated in my original post. I ea more looking for your thoughts on having a dog with a tail as opposed to a docked stump. Thanks to all of you who have gave me feedback.

I'm in for a fun few weeks :-)
Pics to follow soon.

Supa

Oh you really are in for a fun (and messy!) few weeks!

Post pics soon!

funkyjebus

full tails FTW.

arybvtcw0eolkf

andreac wrote: »

Its not for the convenience of the owner, its for the health reasons for the dog.

Honestly, there's not one person I know had their dogs neutured for health reasons.

Without exception everyone I know had either their dogs done to calm him down and stop him humping all around, and had their bitches done to prevent the bitch coming into season.

Regards the JTR tails, I like 'em without.

andreac

Wynter Bewildered Transmission wrote: »

Honestly, there's not one person I know had their dogs neutured for health reasons.

Without exception everyone I know had either their dogs done to calm him down and stop him humping all around, and had their bitches done to prevent the bitch coming into season.

Regards the JTR tails, I like 'em without.

In a way, doing it to stop them coming into season is still a little bit for health reasons as a season is risky for the bitch in case she got accidentally mated with a dog and got pregnant. Stopping a bitch coming into season by neutering reduces risks of pyometra and phantom pregnancies too.

Discodog

Wynter Bewildered Transmission wrote: »

Honestly, there's not one person I know had their dogs neutured for health reasons.

Without exception everyone I know had either their dogs done to calm him down and stop him humping all around, and had their bitches done to prevent the bitch coming into season.

Regards the JTR tails, I like 'em without.

I got a rescue that had not been spayed. She ended up with a dangerously malignant breast tumour that would of killed her had I not of spotted it. Had she been spayed, she is now, the chances of getting this type of tumour would of been less than 5 %. It is the most prevalent & fatal cancer amongst non spayed dogs.

Owning a non spayed bitch is a nightmare in Ireland due the number of males that are allowed to wander. I know someone who put up a 6ft chain link fence to keep their bitch from getting out & even that didn't stop a male dog from getting in.

Is your personally liking for docked tails on JRT's worth, what the Vets refer to as mutilation ?. Is it OK for humans to chop bits off a dog to suit our personal taste ?.

sionnaic

I much much prefer dogs with full undocked tails...in my opinion tail docking is completely wrong when carried out for cosmetic reasons. Dogs with undocked tails look instantly friendlier especially the bigger breeds (look at pics of undocked Rotties for example)

Anyway who in their right mind wouldn't want to see their dog's tail wagging at top speed when they catch sight of them? It's a lovely sight that never fails to cheer me up.

A tail can also tell you what the dog's state of mind is - happy, scared, nervous, watchful, interested - and is also an important tool for communication with other dogs. Just watch 2 non-docked dogs interacting to see what I mean.

OP I'm really really glad you're not going to dock the puppies

dahat wrote: »

I personally breed a type of jack russell and do get the tails docked as i have found that buyers do look for it more than a jr with a long tail.

Dahat - did you ever think to reconsider the type of people you sell to or do you regard dog breeding a purely commercial enterprise, in the same why others buy and sell cars, or make and sell furniture. Until people like you stop the supply of docked puppies, the market for them will never dry up. I'm curious as to why breeders don't try to educate their buyers on the nasty realities of tail docking. Anyone who chooses to subject a puppy to the horrors of tail docking, knowing full well the pain and psychological damage it causes should not be allowed the privilege of pet ownership, in my opinion.

dahat wrote: »

It is each breeders preference whether to dock or not and in no way should should those who leave the tail take any high ground on those who do dock tails n vice versa.

I disagree, those who choose not to dock have every right to take the moral high ground over those who choose to cause a young and defenseless creature untold pain for no other reason than to conform to some outdated and suspect aesthetic reasons.

dahat wrote: »

currently it is still legal to dock tails and while it is i will continue to do so.

As another poster has already pointed out, just because it's legal doesn't mean it's right. Until relatively recently it was legal to cane a child, didn't make it right though did it? Thankfully that particular wrong is now illegal.

Discodog

OP I would stress the benefits of full tails to any prospective owner in that they will get a puppy that has not suffered unnecessary trauma. Explain to them that it will be much easier to gauge it's emotions & it will be able to "talk" more easily to other dogs so there will be less chance of fights.

You can also tell them that docking is on the way out & future animal legislation will ban it. Also they will have the pleasure of people complimenting them for having a dog the way that nature intended.

Graces7

Inflicting needless pain on a wee pup?

Our "russet" ( JRT/Basset cross; had the owners of the JRT who dumped her when she was in pup bothered to spay her?) talks with her tail; three speeds and directions and a delight to see.

It isn;t at base re personal preference is it? Mutilate your own body if you wish but leave the wee ones alone, please.

wetdogsmell

andreac wrote: »

Sorry, but its not to make their own life easier, its for the health and welfare of the dogs, do you not understand that?

Getting a dog neutered/spayed is far healthier in the long run and reduces cancers and conditions like pyometra which can be fatal in bitches so no, its not for the owners covenience, its for the health of the dog.

i understand what you are saying about the cancer risk but i would say most people do it to prevent unwanted litters, which in MY OPINION is for the owners convienience, as they could get the same result from simpley seperating their dogs while in heat

i am not anti neutering, if you wish to do this with your dog thats your buisness,

my point was i thought it was a little bit hypocritical alot of people being so anti docking when they think nothing of a dog having organs removed to stop dogs getting pregnant when they could easily prevent the pregnancy with a little effort of separating them

not forgeting about the cancer, but i have had large amounts of dogs all my life and only lost one bitch from womb problems, so i don't think its as common and as big a risk

pitbull_fanatic

bad question bud. i didnt read any posts on this topic because of what another thread turned out like but if some one dont want to buy the pups off ya with long tails then tell them...fine. as for selling being more difficult, i wont lie to ya it will. but not too much. my buddy sold a litter of 10 rottweillers in the last 2 weeks with long tails. he got huge interest in them. dont let anyone push ya into doing wat ya dont want to do. they just full of empty threats to put preassure on ya. they will sell with long tails.

pitbull_fanatic

Discodog wrote: »

Is your personally liking for docked tails on JRT's worth, what the Vets refer to as mutilation ?. Is it OK for humans to chop bits off a dog to suit our personal taste ?.

i cant believe you are on this thread as well saying the exact same things?!! give it a rest and lighten up. Makikomi was just giving her opinion. your acting like some kind of a cyberbully to people on this forum. u and your "posse"

DBCyc

I can't see any good reason to dock a dogs tail. Just my opinion, I hate docked tails. I think that it is unnecessary and looks terrible.

Is it cruel not to get a dog neutered when they you have no intention of breeding?. Seeing that the dog will never have a chance to satisfy any built up sexual urges?! (apart from on your leg maybe )

For that reason, in addition to the health benefits outlined by vets, would neutering your dog not be the for the best?

arybvtcw0eolkf

pitbull_fanatic wrote: »

Makikomi was just giving her opinion. your acting like some kind of a cyberbully to people on this forum. u and your "posse"

I'm a bloke. And don't worry, I wouldn't be bullied by anyone.

Thanks all the same.

pitbull_fanatic

haha! sorry bud. i ment to say their but her took over. it wasnt jus u i was on about though. its alot of people.haha! i'm in stitches here! haha! sorry!

arybvtcw0eolkf

pitbull_fanatic wrote: »

haha! sorry bud. i ment to say their but her took over. it wasnt jus u i was on about though. its alot of people.haha! i'm in stitches here! haha! sorry!

No probs, I probably look a bit girlie in my avatar

pitbull_fanatic

wat avatar?? i dint see one??

Discodog

pitbull_fanatic wrote: »

i cant believe you are on this thread as well saying the exact same things?!! give it a rest and lighten up. Makikomi was just giving her opinion. your acting like some kind of a cyberbully to people on this forum. u and your "posse"

Well I tend to say the same things if I think they are right whereas you say a different thing in the same thread. The other thread is on ear pinning which is another form of mutilation.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056061531&page=6

If you think that you are being bullied you have every right to report the offending post. I assume that my "posse" would be anyone else who disagrees with you.

January

Wynter Bewildered Transmission wrote: »

No probs, I probably look a bit girlie in my avatar

You do, actually

Discodog

I disagree because he is bigger than me & studies martial arts !

wetdogsmell

Discodog wrote: »

I disagree because he is bigger than me & studies martial arts !

he may be big but he is crap at martial arts

RICARDO1982

I have 2 JRT's both have full tails sure it helps them communicate with other dogs better dos'nt it. I am sure you will find good homes JRT's are great family dogs!

arybvtcw0eolkf

wetdogsmell wrote: »

he may be big but he is crap at martial arts

I've a lovely photo of us two about 5 or 6 years ago, happily rolling around the ring in Finglas to prove the point!.

dahat

CreedonsDogDayc wrote: »

oh cant wait to see pics!!

If I were you i'd make it a feature when advertising the pups (if you have to advertise them).

Say something along the lines of "we love these puppies like they are our own dogs, and we've made sure that they haven't come to any harm. We are against painfully removing a pups tail for cosmetic reasons, so these little babies come with a fluffy wagging tail at no extra charge!! "

By the way www.pedigreedogs.ie is an ethical breeders site for advertising on!

this site openly advertises pups of many breeds with docked tails........
so if this site sells docked puppies it is ok but if other sites do it isn't?

SupaDupaFly

Pics as promised