Electronic bus stop timetables

BrianD

markpb wrote: »

I wonder how DB get these loading statistics. It can't be from their ticket machines because they aren't aware of stops, only stages. Possibly they have more detail now because of the GPS units but they've only been around for a few months which isn't enough time to judge properly.

I was presuming that it was a combination of the ticket machines, surveys and asking the drivers!

Is (or can) there be any integration between the ticket machines and the on board GPS?

strassenwo!f

lxflyer wrote: »

We could debate all day here about the past - probably better for another time tbh.

The relevant issue in this discussion is the AVLC/RTPI system itself, which some people (not you) here bizarrely think is a waste of money.

I am pointing out the benefits of it and that it is only part of the process. Full working timetables are another and as I understand it they are planned and will roll out across the network as the ND project is finalised.

Hold on a sec.

First there's going to be the expensive introduction of poles and electronic display systems at bus stops, and later there's going to be a full working timetable at stops.

And you think the opinion of those who simply favour the presence of full working timetables at stops is bizarre?

markpb

BrianD wrote: »

Is (or can) there be any integration between the ticket machines and the on board GPS?

I think there is. From what I remember, the ticket machines were the first to be upgraded as part of the RTIS project.

donvito99

I've noticed they're putting up new timetable holder things on the stops without the wraparound timetables. I'll see if I can get a pic...

jamesbrond

If you have a smartphone just go to the text website.
Put in the number of the stop and go to the page.
Add a bookmark to your home screen for this stop.

Then all you have to to is tap it and there you go. Instant bus times. It also refreshes itself, so no need to even refresh.

Heres a sample

http://rtpi.ie/Text/Pages/WebDisplay.aspx?stopRef=00271&stopName=Lower+O%27Connell+St

dubhthach

jamesbrond wrote: »

If you have a smartphone just go to the text website.
Put in the number of the stop and go to the page.
Add a bookmark to your home screen for this stop.

Then all you have to to is tap it and there you go. Instant bus times. It also refreshes itself, so no need to even refresh.

Heres a sample

http://rtpi.ie/Text/Pages/WebDisplay.aspx?stopRef=00271&stopName=Lower+O%27Connell+St

Just remember to enable it on no-script as an allowed site if you are using no-script that is. What's interesting is when I try to do a search by postcode it tells me:

Sorry, the postcode 'D4' is not recognised. Please enter a valid full postcode.

Same happens for D04 and Dublin4, I'm assuming the postcode it's looking for isn't the current system?

jamesbrond

dubhthach wrote: »

Just remember to enable it on no-script as an allowed site if you are using no-script that is. What's interesting is when I try to do a search by postcode it tells me:


Same happens for D04 and Dublin4, I'm assuming the postcode it's looking for isn't the current system?

Any developer would make a site a million times better than that one in less than an hour.

Id say the code was someones first attempt at programming. Probably taken from a sample uk program on the web in the first place. So they left the postcode in as a field even though its useless here.

bg07

Does any one know why the 145 does not appear on either http://www.rtpi.ie/ or the road signs? According to the dublin bus website the rollout of AVLC is complete so why is the route missing? Link

Cathaoirleach

bg07 wrote: »

According to the dublin bus website the rollout of AVLC is complete

That press release is from Feb 2009.

The system is still in testing phase.

Send feedback here: http://www.transportforireland.ie/

bg07

Cathaoirleach wrote: »

That press release is from Feb 2009.

The system is still in testing phase.

Send feedback here: http://www.transportforireland.ie/

I know the system is still in testing and I have already made this comment on the transport for Ireland website. My question was why the 145 is the only main bus route that I can find that never appears on the system if the necessary tracking equipment now onboard all buses. I’m just wondering if there was a motive for this such as for example to help hide the poor performance of the 145 that has been widely discussed on boards. But maybe I'm too cynical.

Cathaoirleach

bg07 wrote: »

why the 145 is the only main bus route that I can find that never appears on the system

As I said, the system is still in testing phase. Some routes are not available yet.

BrianD

Question - does the 'testing' phase involve a 'learning' phase where the system fine tunes the timings at each stop?

LXFlyer

BrianD wrote: »

Question - does the 'testing' phase involve a 'learning' phase where the system fine tunes the timings at each stop?

Presumably yes - remember that someone has to have come up with working times for each route in the first place.

If they turn out to be wrong then they will obviously need updating.

markpb

lxflyer wrote: »

Presumably yes - remember that someone has to have come up with working times for each route in the first place. If they turn out to be wrong then they will obviously need updating.

I assume the learning will be automatic rather than taught. It should, over time, be able to figure out how long each route takes to get to each bus stop at each time of the day.

LXFlyer

markpb wrote: »

I assume the learning will be automatic rather than taught. It should, over time, be able to figure out how long each route takes to get to each bus stop at each time of the day.

Maybe - but where a bus has not left the terminus, then in that case the scheduled running times come into play.

At the initial stage these would have had to be manually calculated for each section of the route. Presumably over time then the actual running times will become apparent and the system updated somehow.

Jayuu

3 months after it was errected the sign at my stop (Greencastle Road/Malahide Road) is still not active. After repeated requests via the Transport for Ireland website I e-mailed the National Transport Authority. At first then didn't reply but when I e-mailed again and told them that I was contacting my local councillors about it I finally got a reply.

Apparantly the sign was errected and installed and only then did they realise that they couldn't get electricity to it for some reason. They are seemingly working to resolve this issue. Personally I don't see why it should take three months to do that. The guy who phoned me back couldn't even give me any sort of estimate for completion on it.

It also makes me wonder about the people responsible for planning this project. After all one would have thought that when they were deciding the location of this signs, the need for electricity would have been considering a criticial requirement. :eek:

Carawaystick

irish rail have erected signs at their stations for many years and they don't work. expecting working signs on a road is a bit optomistic,,, it is Ireland after all

Wild Bill

Carawaystick wrote: »

irish rail have erected signs at their stations for many years and they don't work. expecting working signs on a road is a bit optomistic,,, it is Ireland after all

The Luas signs work perfectly. Maybe it's an Irish Rail thing?

Wild Bill

Wild Bill wrote: »

The Luas signs work perfectly. Maybe it's an Irish Rail thing?

The only stations on the Maynooth line with working signage are Drumcondra and Phoenix Park. All the others are either off (such as Clonsilla) or displaying "FINAL TEST" (such as Castleknock).

Cool Mo D

The Irish Rail signs on the Maynooth line don't work because the current signalling system can't supply up to date train times, it's not as modern as the DART system.

Solair

There seems to be quite a large number of poles and wiring being installed for the roll out of these displays on Cork City routes too.

I haven't seen an active sign yet, but they're definitely going in.

http://www.corkcity.ie/services/roadstransportation/roadsnews/mainbody,33703,en.html

L1011

Cool Mo D wrote: »

The Irish Rail signs on the Maynooth line don't work because the current signalling system can't supply up to date train times, it's not as modern as the DART system.

The standard excuse is that the system beyond Glasnevin Junction can't support it - however Phoenix Park has working displays.... clearly they have ways and means around this, but likely can't be arsed fixing the other stations.

Cool Mo D

MYOB wrote: »

The standard excuse is that the system beyond Glasnevin Junction can't support it - however Phoenix Park has working displays.... clearly they have ways and means around this, but likely can't be arsed fixing the other stations.

Does Phoenix Park display timetabled times, or actual real time displays? There is no reason why they all can't at least have the timetables on the displays. I think the line is due to be resignalled when the level crossings are being closed.

Cool Mo D

Cool Mo D wrote: »

Does Phoenix Park display timetabled times, or actual real time displays? There is no reason why they all can't at least have the timetables on the displays. I think the line is due to be resignalled when the level crossings are being closed.

It's the same as those on the Dunboyne line or the one at Adamstown, I think they just show timetables rather than real time info.

LXFlyer

MYOB wrote: »

Cool Mo D wrote: »

The Irish Rail signs on the Maynooth line don't work because the current signalling system can't supply up to date train times, it's not as modern as the DART system.

The standard excuse is that the system beyond Glasnevin Junction can't support it - however Phoenix Park has working displays.... clearly they have ways and means around this, but likely can't be arsed fixing the other stations.

The standard excuse happens to be correct. Until the line is resignalled the displays cannot work.

Phoenix Park displays scheduled times only - it is NOT real time.

loyatemu

lxflyer wrote: »

The standard excuse happens to be correct. Until the line is resignalled the displays cannot work.

the IÉ website has the realtime information on it, this is also available via RSS and various smartphone apps - there's absolutely no reason why they couldn't adapt the displays to get the information from the RSS feed rather than the signalling system, it would cost peanuts.

The displays in Greystones have been in place for over 10 years with nothing displaying on them except "Welcome to Greystones Station" and they don't even say that anymore.

L1011

lxflyer wrote: »

The standard excuse happens to be correct. Until the line is resignalled the displays cannot work.

Phoenix Park displays scheduled times only - it is NOT real time.

Why does the not-very-old signalling system on the line, installed at the time of dualling, not support data that the even older pre-DASH system did in Dublin?

Carawaystick

lxflyer wrote: »

The standard excuse happens to be correct. Until the line is resignalled the displays cannot work.

Phoenix Park displays scheduled times only - it is NOT real time.

How do the tram and bus displays get their information? Why not use a similar system for the train displays?

The trains can display the distance to the next station to within 100m

Or even write an android app to send position/speed to the displays from a phone the driver can place in the cab

LXFlyer

loyatemu wrote: »

the IÉ website has the realtime information on it, this is also available via RSS and various smartphone apps - there's absolutely no reason why they couldn't adapt the displays to get the information from the RSS feed rather than the signalling system, it would cost peanuts.

The displays in Greystones have been in place for over 10 years with nothing displaying on them except "Welcome to Greystones Station" and they don't even say that anymore.

MYOB wrote: »

Why does the not-very-old signalling system on the line, installed at the time of dualling, not support data that the even older pre-DASH system did in Dublin?

Carawaystick wrote: »

How do the tram and bus displays get their information? Why not use a similar system for the train displays?

The trains can display the distance to the next station to within 100m

Or even write an android app to send position/speed to the displays from a phone the driver can place in the cab

The website does have realtime info on it but is far from complete. The following sections have no or limited information:

• Hazelhatch - Heuston Line
• Athlone - Westport/Ballina Line
• Cork Station
• Cork - Cobh/Midleton Line
• Mallow - Tralee Line
• Ballybrophy - Limerick Line
• Limerick - Ennis Line
• Athy - Waterford Line
• Limerick Junction - Waterford Line
• Greystones - Rosslare Line
• Drogheda - Belfast Line
• Drumcondra - Sligo Line

The last one is the section discussed above.

The displays were installed on the Maynooth line and at Greystones on the premise that funding for the resignalling was going to be provided shortly afterwards. However, the funding was then withheld by the Department of Transport (similar to Dublin Bus GPS control being delayed due to DoT funding being withheld) and we were left with the situation that we have now.

The line between Drumcondra and Maynooth/M3 Parkway is controlled from Clonsilla signal cabin (the building beside the level crossing cabin) and is not controlled by CTC. Hence the lack of real time information.

However, I have seen some discussions online that suggest IE are looking at fitting GPS equipment onto the fleet, which should then facilitate all the suggestions above, as an interim solution until the line is resignalled. I can't see anything on the etenders website to suggest that this is happening however.

bk

lxflyer wrote: »

However, I have seen some discussions online that suggest IE are looking at fitting GPS equipment onto the fleet, which should then facilitate all the suggestions above, as an interim solution until the line is resignalled. I can't see anything on the etenders website to suggest that this is happening however.

I was just about to suggest that. Basically the same system currently being rolled out on Dublin Bus.

GPS unit with inertial and speed sensors with a 3G/GPRS connection back to base which in turn communicates via 3G/GPRS to the displays.

Obviously not good enough for signalling safety purposes, but certainly good enough for arrivals data.

Wouldn't cost much, hell most of us have a form of this tech in our pockets (smart phone).