Electronic bus stop timetables

loike

Hi i seen an electronic bus stop time table today at donnycarney and was wondering where else they are in Dublin?

If you're wondering what im on about its like the luas ones that says when a luas is due and where its going except it did this for all the buses and it seemed very accurate to me.

irishdub14

Lots of poles up beside bus stations on the Howth Road in Raheny, although the screens aren't up yet.

Edit:

Screens at Donnycarney Church are working from today:





Pics from http://www.dublinbusstuff.com/PhotoWeek/NewRPTI.html

Cookie_Monster

will they be like the DART ones and take 5 mins to go from 10 to 7 but 2 mins to go from 7 to 1? :P

etchyed

I know it's many many years late but thank God! Finally it's happened. I can't believe it.

At least with Network Direct messing everything up people will at least know how long they're gonna be waiting...

Jayuu

Noticed this today as well. The only one that seems to be full installed and working on the way into the city was the one at Donneycarney church but I did notice a similar pole further out on the Malahide Road at the UCI stop. There may have been others on this road but if there were I missed them.

The UCI stop is the one I use quite a bit so I'm quite happy if this is a test point. Nothing worse than arriving at a stop and wondering how long you might be waiting around for. Assuming that its installed I'll keep an eye on how accurate the timings are.

Cookie_Monster

irishdub14 wrote: »

28 at the stop but not on the display, why's that then. surely it should stay up until the bus departs?

cute_cow

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

28 at the stop but not on the display, why's that then. surely it should stay up until the bus departs?

I think that is the 128 bus?

LeinsterDub

Any word on when the ipad app is due or even the section on DB site?

KC61

This is only on trial now. 4 depots are operational with the AVLC system (Harristown, Clontarf, Summerhill and Ringsend). The initial rollout on street will be from these depots.

Phibsboro, Donnybrook and Conyngham Road are still to be done.

iphone apps etc will probably have to wait until all the depots are completed and the full online and mobile RTPI system rolled out next year.

KC61

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

28 at the stop but not on the display, why's that then. surely it should stay up until the bus departs?

Read the information that was posted on the link above in post # 2. It's just disappeared from the screen.

It's a 128.

BrianD

When will we see them in the city centre or will Dublin City Council have some problem with them as in they look like something that you would normally see in a city?

Great to see them in use now.

KC61

There is one appearing in Lower Abbey Street at the 41 terminus I believe.

There are limited locations that it can be used in the city centre at the moment because Phibsboro, Donnybrook 1 & 2, and Conyngham Road have not yet been converted to AVLC operation. So you would end up with incomplete data.

For the moment it is being rolled out at stops that are served by garages that are kitted out.

Last I heard is that the AVLC rollout should be completed in early 2011.

Chris_5339762

A 15 bus stop in Terenure has the pole mounting for this.

I cant wait till this is done. I dont think people realise how much of a massive difference this will make. Even if a bus is unreliable, at least you know how long you'll be waiting.

Jayuu

As chance would happen I ended up at the Donneycarney bus stop yesterday waiting for a 128 so I had a chance to see it in action. The times come down to "1min" and then say "Due" as the bus in its final approach. This will be handy when you can't see far up the road.

It seemed to be fairly accurate although when I arrived it told me a 128 was due. Nearly a minute later this changed back to "2mins" and then counted down but it did predict the arrival accurately at that stage. I also did notice other times move upwards by a minute as they were recalculated. There was also a 20B which passed by but didn't have to stop. It was around 20 seconds before it disappeared off the list.

Clearly some more tweaking on time calculations is going to be required although given the unpredictable nature of Dublin's traffic there are probably always going to be inaccuracies. However I think its a great addition to the network and I can't wait to see more of them.

KC61

Jayuu wrote: »

As chance would happen I ended up at the Donneycarney bus stop yesterday waiting for a 128 so I had a chance to see it in action. The times come down to "1min" and then say "Due" as the bus in its final approach. This will be handy when you can't see far up the road.

It seemed to be fairly accurate although when I arrived it told me a 128 was due. Nearly a minute later this changed back to "2mins" and then counted down but it did predict the arrival accurately at that stage. I also did notice other times move upwards by a minute as they were recalculated. There was also a 20B which passed by but didn't have to stop. It was around 20 seconds before it disappeared off the list.

Clearly some more tweaking on time calculations is going to be required although given the unpredictable nature of Dublin's traffic there are probably always going to be inaccuracies. However I think its a great addition to the network and I can't wait to see more of them.

I think that you would have to allow a margin of error of a minute or two to allow for the vagaries of traffic, traffic lights changing to red etc.

murphaph

They look very similar to the ones we have in Berlin at the tram stops tbh. Good to see they are not putting them inside the bus shelter as they did with the 78A bus stops (they were all vandalised and could barely be read anyway). A decent height off the ground, but will they still be vandalised? Time will tell. People should have their hands chopped off for vandalising these things.

Better late than never but great to finally see this sort of stuff rolled out. Now to get DCC and the 3 other local authorities to cooperate and install proper bus priority measures and get Dublin moving!

Aard

I'm in minor disbelief that this has actually happened. I thought the photos were a photoshop at first!

BluntGuy

Very glad to see this being done. Hopefully this will encourage more bus use.

Chris_5339762

The time prediction is probably based both on the speed and position of the bus, so if the bus suddenly gets caught at traffic lights (and stops) then the times would be upward adjusted.

Victor

Of course times will somethimes be adjusted upwards - otherwise it wouldn't be real time.

BrianD

Support post has appeared in Rathmines. There don't seem to have been any damage to LUAS information displays. Dublin Bikes have had little vandalism. Perhaps we should be optimistic!

Empire o de Sun

BrianD wrote: »

Support post has appeared in Rathmines. There don't seem to have been any damage to LUAS information displays. Dublin Bikes have had little vandalism. Perhaps we should be optimistic!

Agreed. There is no need to assume the worse of people.

Squeaksoutloud

I think this should make a massive improvement in services. Imagine you can be having your breakfast and can check the computer for when your bus is arriving. No longer will you need to worry about getting down there and wondering if you have missed your bus. The phone apps should be a great help also. For the relative cost of this compared to other big works I think this will be the best value for money infrastructure project in the country! It will certainly make me use buses a lot more.

FreudianSlippers

I love them! Why didn't they have these when I was riding the bus?

KC61

murphaph wrote: »

They look very similar to the ones we have in Berlin at the tram stops tbh. Good to see they are not putting them inside the bus shelter as they did with the 78A bus stops (they were all vandalised and could barely be read anyway). A decent height off the ground, but will they still be vandalised? Time will tell. People should have their hands chopped off for vandalising these things.

Better late than never but great to finally see this sort of stuff rolled out. Now to get DCC and the 3 other local authorities to cooperate and install proper bus priority measures and get Dublin moving!

They all ready are co-operating - all of the bus priority measures regardless of area are now managed from the QBN Office in Dublin City Council.

murphaph

KC61 wrote: »

They all ready are co-operating - all of the bus priority measures regardless of area are now managed from the QBN Office in Dublin City Council.

So do 39 buses now travel freely along Manor Street? (ie, have DCC removed their pay parking and installed bus lanes to allow buses from Fingal to access the city centre in a reasonable time?)

KC61

murphaph wrote: »

So do 39 buses now travel freely along Manor Street? (ie, have DCC removed their pay parking and installed bus lanes to allow buses from Fingal to access the city centre in a reasonable time?)

I would say that the 39 is also a bus from Dublin 7 - a DCC area so everyone is losing out.

The point I am making is that one single office based in DCC now has responsibility for all bus priority measures. Each council does not do their own off their own bat any more. It is co-ordinated in that manner.

donvito99

I saw a shiny new pole going up at the stop outside the Swan Centre, Rathmines. Thought it would be the stop pole things that they have on O Connel street, the fancy ones. I guess they're being rolled out on all the major QBCs?

KC61

donvito99 wrote: »

I saw a shiny new pole going up at the stop outside the Swan Centre, Rathmines. Thought it would be the stop pole things that they have on O Connel street, the fancy ones. I guess they're being rolled out on all the major QBCs?

As I posted in the Dublin Bus Network Review thread in C & T
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=68726750&postcount=1483

At the moment Clontarf, Ringsend, Harristown and Summerhill depots are completed in terms of fitting out with the new control system (AVLC), which in turn facilitates the rollout of RTPI.

Donnybrook 1 and 2, Phibsboro and Conyngham Road are next to be done. These are targeted I understand to be completed by early 2011.

The intial rollout will be on corridors served by the four depots already completed, so I would imagine that the Howth Road, Malahide Road, Swords Road, Finglas Road, Rathfarnham QBC, Rathmines/Templeogue QBC, and Greenhills/Tallaght will probably the first to be kitted out. These are fully operated by those depots.

The rest will follow once the other depots are AVLC operational.

KevR

Really glad to finally see these!! I hope the system is a huge success.


Not a major criticism but I hope those stainless steel support poles aren't supposed to be "self-cleaning" like the spire which costs a fortune to clean/polish. Stainless steel support poles for traffic lights/sign post in the City Centre are a lot nicer than the standard metal poles you see everywhere but they do get shabby looking after a while if they're not maintained. In my opinion, poles which are painted black are nicer looking than stainless steel. They're easier to maintain also; a lick of paint every few years does the trick.

serfboard

Echo all the other posts that welcome this development. I too think its fantastic, and should be followed up with smartphone apps as well.

Any chance we could have this in the rest of our cities as well?

Squeaksoutloud wrote: »

For the relative cost of this compared to other big works I think this will be the best value for money infrastructure project in the country!

Agree 100%.

mikemac

Great project, can't wait until it's rolled out

And then Cork and Limerick too.
As for the bus service in Galway? Probably the worst of our cities, a lot of work to be done there

murphaph wrote: »

A decent height off the ground, but will they still be vandalised? Time will tell.

You are right, time will tell.
Before the luas was built, there were newspaper articles the Luas would be stoned by Fatima.
And there were a few posts from me on boards wondering could Dublin bikes swim as they'd be in canals within a week.

I was happy to be proven wrong, so I hope for the best

triple-M

feelingstressed wrote: »

Great project, can't wait until it's rolled out

And then Cork and Limerick too.
As for the bus service in Galway? Probably the worst of our cities, a lot of work to be done there



You are right, time will tell.
Before the luas was built, there were newspaper articles the Luas would be stoned by Fatima.
And there were a few posts from me on boards wondering could Dublin bikes swim as they'd be in canals within a week.

I was happy to be proven wrong, so I hope for the best

love your optimism,we need plenty more of that to drag ireland out of the dark ages and to conquer our fear of modernising the country because of the chances of a bored teenager throwing stones at things:)

dfx-

I saw one of these working at Crumlin Shopping Centre last week and nearly fell over at its seemingly accurate nature. Though it did have on its screen a bus that is timetabled, but never ever ever has operated and never will (2100 ex-Dolphins Barn 56).

So it works by the timetable and not what is actually coming up the road, but good nevertheless..

Though it was not in operation this afternoon...

Jim236

dfx- wrote: »

I saw one of these working at Crumlin Shopping Centre last week and nearly fell over at its seemingly accurate nature. Though it did have on its screen a bus that is timetabled, but never ever ever has operated and never will (2100 ex-Dolphins Barn 56).

So it works by the timetable and not what is actually coming up the road, but good nevertheless..

Though it was not in operation this afternoon...

Surely it must be working by real information if its constantly updated?

KC61

dfx- wrote: »

I saw one of these working at Crumlin Shopping Centre last week and nearly fell over at its seemingly accurate nature. Though it did have on its screen a bus that is timetabled, but never ever ever has operated and never will (2100 ex-Dolphins Barn 56).

So it works by the timetable and not what is actually coming up the road, but good nevertheless..

Though it was not in operation this afternoon...

It is based on the GPS and is real time - not the timetable.

However, where buses have not departed the terminus it is obviously the scheduled time that will appear.

dfx-

But there is no bus at the terminus for that departure, it does not operate, there is no bus to read the GPS from - it should not be on it. If you read the screen and it said it was due, you'd be waiting a very long time for it to appear..

The 2030 56A leaving the city was separate on the screen and it is the only bus operating the 56/A outbound for the rest of the night.

KC61

dfx- wrote: »

But there is no bus at the terminus for that departure, it does not operate, there is no bus to read the GPS from - it should not be on it. If you read the screen and it said it was due, you'd be waiting a very long time for it to appear..

The 2030 56A leaving the city was separate on the screen and it is the only bus operating the 56/A outbound for the rest of the night.

Read what I said.

It reads the GPS from buses on the move. After that it will show buses that are scheduled to operate.

To explain this - just assume that the 2100 56 does operate.

In this example if you are standing at Crumlin Road at 2050, it will show the next buses that are moving coming towards that stop, be they 50, 77, 77a, etc. in real time. It will also show the 2100 56 as it would be due to pass within the following few minutes per the schedule with the terminus only being a short distance down the road. It obviously cannot be in real time as the bus would not have moved from the terminus, but would be as per the schedule. Once it starts moving the scheduled time would drop out and be replaced by a real time estimate.

Does that make it any clearer as to how the system operates?

Now the real issue that you have raised here is that this bus is in the schedule despite never operating. Why? The information on the screen is only as good as that which is provided to it. Obviously the schedule is wrong.

BrianD

Any of these displays installed on O'Connelle St. and the Quays yet? I say one, I'm sure, on Westomoreland St.

KC61

BrianD wrote: »

Any of these displays installed on O'Connelle St. and the Quays yet? I say one, I'm sure, on Westomoreland St.

Again as I've said several times Brian the AVLC has yet to be rolled out in Phibsboro and Donnybrook.

So RTPI will only work for a limited number of routes on O'Connell Street at present, namely the 1, 2, 3, 13, 13a, 16, 16a, 123 and 747.

Not much point putting displays in until the rest of the garages are up and running, which is due to happen by Q1 2011.

dfx-

KC61 wrote: »

Does that make it any clearer as to how the system operates?

Now the real issue that you have raised here is that this bus is in the schedule despite never operating. Why? The information on the screen is only as good as that which is provided to it. Obviously the schedule is wrong.

I read what you said.

My original point was it shows a bus that never operates. Whether it tracks it by post or GPS or someone reading a map on the surface of the moon, it is showing information that is wrong. It can only do this by either operating blindly by schedule or timetable and then tracks the buses. So when it reads that 56 bus as appearing in 2 minutes, it is wrong - it is giving the wrong information. Why is it working off information that is wrong is the question..

So when it says a 77 is appearing in 14 minutes, then counts down to 8 minutes...who knows whether that bus ever left Ringsend Garage. It is no indication that that bus will be there in 8 minutes, despite time ticking down.

KC61

dfx- wrote: »

I read what you said.

My original point was it shows a bus that never operates. Whether it tracks it by post or GPS or someone reading a map on the surface of the moon, it is showing information that is wrong. It can only do this by either operating blindly by schedule or timetable and then tracks the buses. So when it reads that 56 bus as appearing in 2 minutes, it is wrong - it is giving the wrong information. Why is it working off information that is wrong is the question..

So when it says a 77 is appearing in 14 minutes, then counts down to 8 minutes...who knows whether that bus ever left Ringsend Garage. It is no indication that that bus will be there in 8 minutes, despite time ticking down.

The problem with that 56 is that it is in the timetable and should not be. That is the only error.

Your example only works in the way you suggest when the display is a few stops away from the terminus - when it is in the middle of the route as is the case for all routes other than the 56 it would be live realtime information. The 56 would only become live when it starts moving.

So you are incorrect regarding the other routes and their times - they are live.

dfx-

So...if a timetabled 77 doesn't leave Ringsend, it would show up on the screen. Would the display continually show 77 - 20 minutes? At what point does it give up and remove it from the screen..

It's all a bit of theoretical debate given it's not working at the moment

KC61

dfx- wrote: »

So...if a timetabled 77 doesn't leave Ringsend, it would show up on the screen. Would the display continually show 77 - 20 minutes? At what point does it give up and remove it from the screen..

It's all a bit of theoretical debate given it's not working at the moment

The exact point at which it is removed if a bus does not operate I don't know, but given the displays only show 5 buses it is unlikely that any "scheduled" arrival times would appear at all at Crumlin other than the 56 because there would be more than 5 buses en route at any stage given the distance from Ringsend!

We're nit picking somewhat here - the system does work on a realtime basis.

The real issue that you have identified is why is that 2100 route 56 departure in the timetable at all.

D'Peoples Voice

irishdub14 wrote: »

Screens at Donnycarney Church are working from today:

Credit where credit is due to Dublin Bus, I'm usually the first to criticize them, but not in this case.
That said, I was happier when they moved from the difficult-to-see blue bus stop poles to the more visual yellow bus stop poles, however grotesque they looked, they were safer for the visually impaired, just like on the luas.

Can we assume that the grey/silver pole in the picture is only part of the trial,
and they're not going to be rolling out this colour pole on a city wide basis.

Then again, DCC have never cared about the visually impaired with their posts, so I guess why should Dublin Bus.:rolleyes:

Hell they look nice, so I'm happy - and for others there is always Optilase:D

Telchak

D'Peoples Voice wrote: »

and for others there is always Optilase:D

Was it intentional, or did you miss the Specsavers ad on the side of the bus?

L1011

D'Peoples Voice wrote: »

Credit where credit is due to Dublin Bus,

the Council owns the signs, not DB.

KC61

MYOB wrote: »

the Council owns the signs, not DB.

All of the underlying work behind these signs was done by Dublin Bus - the scheduling, GPS equipment etc.

All DCC are doing is managing the installation of the signs.

oharach

Telchak wrote: »

Was it intentional, or did you miss the Specsavers ad on the side of the bus?

Seems like he might not be the first to miss the Specsavers ad

Jayuu

oharach wrote: »

Seems like he might not be the first to miss the Specsavers ad

Its a funny picture but it's not real. It's Photoshopped! I remember seeing this when it first happened.

oharach

Jayuu wrote: »

Its a funny picture but it's not real. It's Photoshopped! I remember seeing this when it first happened.

Knew it was too good to be true!