Electronic bus stop timetables

Wild Bill

lxflyer wrote: »

There are 7,500 bus stops in Dublin - do you honestly think DB can monitor every single one?

If they are all tracked by GPS then it's a cinch - for any half-competent business.

I work in the transport industry. I know.

CIE are a bunch of "£$%^&s. :cool:

Solair

There are several Cork City busses that announce

"You are now arriving at Parnell Place Bus Station" at random intervals along the route for no obvious reason.

CIE are generally a complete joke though. It's off-the-shelf technology.
It's kind of like saying you can't manage to get the bus engines working or that you struggle with the concept of a steering wheel.

strassenwo!f

lxflyer wrote: »

To be fair I think that this is exactly what is planned. However it is going to take considerable time to roll out and considering the entire network is being redesigned would be pointless doing right now.

Until earlier this year when the Automatic Vehicle Location and Control (AVLC) system was finally fully rolled out DB controllers/schedulers had no way of knowing how long buses were taking to get from one stop to another or where any bus was at a point in time other than calling a driver over the radio and asking him/her.

Schedules were prepared on the basis of termini and (where applicable) driver handover points only.

The AVLC system will facilitate schedulers in providing accurate information on running times right through the day and will at last allow them to prepare stop specific timetables that will be realistic. That is my understanding of what will ultimately be prepared for every route.

A useful spin-off of the AVLC is the ability to provide RTPI to customers online, on-street and on-mobile. Most other cities do provide this facility already.

This is an entire package - and it would be wrong to look at one area in isolation. Printed timetables are a very important part of it and will remain so.

Initially they have started with providing intermediate times at one or two points along each route under the Network Direct project but as I understand it the plan is to do every stop. As I say though, that is a mammoth task and will take some time to roll out.

Patience!

So, lxflyer, that post of yours was from two-and-a-half years ago.

I'm going to be back in Dublin soon, and will probably be making a considerable number of journeys on Dublin Bus.

What progress should I expect to see re the issue of stop-specific timetables which we were discussing at the time?

Victor

There are timetables like the attached on the NTA journey planner.

The NTA sought tenders for the provision of thousands of bus stops earlier in the year.

AlekSmart

strassenwo!f wrote: »

So, lxflyer, that post of yours was from two-and-a-half years ago.

I'm going to be back in Dublin soon, and will probably be making a considerable number of journeys on Dublin Bus.

What progress should I expect to see re the issue of stop-specific timetables which we were discussing at the time?

The only "progress",if thats what ye want,is that most of the cross-city routes now have CC specific times on the CC Stops.

The RTPI and particularly the Dublin Bus related Android apps have pretty much outflanked the entire timetable issue,with even the ubiquitous "Forren Visiter" now looking up their Galaxies rather than oul hard-copy on a pole...;)

strassenwo!f

Victor wrote: »

There are timetables like the attached on the NTA journey planner.

That's good, and looks like progress. But the information which is really important for people at any one stop is the times that the relevant buses should appear at that stop. Is that ready to go?

The NTA sought tenders for the provision of thousands of bus stops earlier in the year.

What do you mean here? Dublin Bus already has thousands of bus stops. What is needed is not new bus stops, it's relevant information at those stops. Why do the NTA need tenders for this?

LXFlyer

To an extent your question has been answered.

Full timetables have been drawn up as part of the AVLC project, with times for each bus stop. These are available online at www.a-b.ie

These timetables are the control timetables, but they do need some reviewing in some cases.

These are not displayed at individual bus stops, but as Alek says they have been rendered somewhat obsolete by the rollout of RTPI with displays on street at virtually every city centre stop and major ones in the suburbs, along with the Dublin Bus and NTA real time apps.

Frankly timetables these days are more use at or near termini, elsewhere the real time apps and signs really have become the more relevant piece of information.

However, once these full timetables have been fully reviewed, something that has to be done, I would imagine they will be rolled out at bus stops, once the NTA takes over responsibility for the provision of on-street information.

The NTA are taking over ownership of all of the bus stops and are tendering for new stops that will be operator neutral.

strassenwo!f

AlekSmart wrote: »

The only "progress",if thats what ye want,is that most of the cross-city routes now have CC specific times on the CC Stops.

Excellent. That does sound like much-needed progress.

AlekSmart wrote: »

The RTPI and particularly the Dublin Bus related Android apps have pretty much outflanked the entire timetable issue,with even the ubiquitous "Forren Visiter" now looking up their Galaxies rather than oul hard-copy on a pole...;)

While it is a bit disconcerting to read a Dublin Bus employee writing approvingly about "outflanking" the issue of timetables, I don't think the real focus here should be the fardinners.

As was discussed in or around page 12 of this thread, there is a lot to be said for Dubliners knowing what time buses are due to arrive at a particular stop, from the point of view of planning the time to leave the house in the morning, what time to leave the workplace in the evening, etc., without having to resort to a phone. Stop-specific timetables continue to be the main resource for bus users in most cities in continental northern Europe, and Dublin should continue its efforts to emulate that.

lxflyer wrote:

To an extent your question has been answered.

Full timetables have been drawn up as part of the AVLC project, with times for each bus stop. These are available online at www.a-b.ie

Good, they're available online. But for many people, it's just much easier to note down (probably mentally) the times of the buses at their particular stop. Isn't it? And if they're in town (for example) and they notice on Nassau Street that the next 44B isn't for another 45 minutes (on the stop-specific timetable) and is not yet shown on the RTPI yoke, then they can go off, do something else that they need to do, and come back at the appropriate time.

These are not displayed at individual bus stops, but as Alek says they have been rendered somewhat obsolete by the rollout of RTPI with displays on street at virtually every city centre stop and major ones in the suburbs, along with the Dublin Bus and NTA real time apps.

The RTPI thing tells you at what time the next few buses are coming. It doesn't tell (let's say) a pensioner from Kimmage what time to leave home in order to catch the #18 bus which will bring him or her to Ranelagh for a drink with the mates. This passenger can get to the bus stop and be told that it's coming in 20 minutes. If there was a stop-specific timetable, reasonably well adhered-to, as it is in most northern european cities, this passenger could leave home at a later time and waste less time faffing around at the bus stop.

(I know route 18 quite well, and quite frankly the idea that Dublin Bus have persisted for so long with timetables on the route which highlight the departure times from Palmerstown, as if these have any relevance whatsoever for passengers in a place as distant as Kimmage, is a disgrace. Like most other cities, Dublin has traffic, but the 18 has been travelling for decades along that route, yet no better information than the departure time from Palmerstown has been forthcoming. But, hey, don't worry about the past, pensioner, now you can use an app).:(

lxflyer wrote:

Frankly timetables these days are more use at or near termini, elsewhere the real time apps and signs really have become the more relevant piece of information.

Well, of course that's true under the current Dublin Bus arrangement, where stop-specific timetables largely don't exist, so nobody knows what time a particular bus is due to arrive at a particular stop. They only know what time it is supposed to have left its' starting point. Further along the line, nobody knows whether a particular bus is late, very late, early, or whether it even left the starting point.

And, as I have said, real-time apps are not relevant for someone who is planning their day on the night before, as many people are, or who is planning a few hours in advance what time to leave the workplace, as many people do.

lxflyer wrote:

However, once these full timetables have been fully reviewed, something that has to be done, I would imagine they will be rolled out at bus stops, once the NTA takes over responsibility for the provision of on-street information.

If it happens, very good.

lxflyer wrote:

The NTA are taking over ownership of all of the bus stops and are tendering for new stops that will be operator neutral.

Good. It really should not be difficult to have stops which have a board or somesuch for the timetables of all the operators who use that stop, with stop-specific times displayed on the board.

Victor

strassenwo!f wrote: »

What do you mean here? Dublin Bus already has thousands of bus stops. What is needed is not new bus stops, it's relevant information at those stops. Why do the NTA need tenders for this?

Whatever about Dublin Bus, which has the vast majority of stops marked, many other operators don't, even Bus Éireann.

strassenwo!f

lxflyer wrote: »

To be fair I think that this is exactly what is planned. However it is going to take considerable time to roll out and considering the entire network is being redesigned would be pointless doing right now.

Until earlier this year when the Automatic Vehicle Location and Control (AVLC) system was finally fully rolled out DB controllers/schedulers had no way of knowing how long buses were taking to get from one stop to another or where any bus was at a point in time other than calling a driver over the radio and asking him/her.

Schedules were prepared on the basis of termini and (where applicable) driver handover points only.

The AVLC system will facilitate schedulers in providing accurate information on running times right through the day and will at last allow them to prepare stop specific timetables that will be realistic. That is my understanding of what will ultimately be prepared for every route.

A useful spin-off of the AVLC is the ability to provide RTPI to customers online, on-street and on-mobile. Most other cities do provide this facility already.

This is an entire package - and it would be wrong to look at one area in isolation. Printed timetables are a very important part of it and will remain so.

Initially they have started with providing intermediate times at one or two points along each route under the Network Direct project but as I understand it the plan is to do every stop. As I say though, that is a mammoth task and will take some time to roll out.

Patience!

Well, obviously considerable patience is required.

You make very good points, lxflyer, but that was getting on for five and a half years ago.

I was in three cities last week, and used public transport extensively in each: Dublin, Berlin and Szczecin (Poland). The latter two use an electronic timetable and a paper timetable, which is pretty much adhered to.

Dublin continues with the electronic board and a meaningless paper timetable showing the time the bus left the terminus.

As I and others pointed out around pages 11 and 12 of this thread, the paper timetable, when reasonably adhered to, is very useful for many people.

Dublin appears to be no further down the line to producing one, even after what must have been colossal amounts of information going into their system since the RTPI thing was rolled out.