Electronic bus stop timetables

diceyreilly

It was a Thomas Cook ad, you can see it on the window in the LUAS

Jayuu

The rollout of the screens continues. The display unit is now up at my local stop on the Malahide Road and I've seen a few more of them on the way into town. Some of the locations seem a little strange to me but I haven't done a complete examination of where they are to completely justify this statement.

They're still not active (even the trial one in Donneycarney hasn't been turned on for a while now) and I couldn't find anything about them on the Dublin Bus website but I assume it will be active in the next few weeks.

BrianD

The placements do seem a little random. Is there a rationale to the locations? For example, there's one outside the Garda Club on Harrington St. but none on the opposite side.

L1011

Installed along the Crumlin Road from what I could see today.

BrianD

It would be useful if the council, DB or private parties were allowed create mobile apps that can simulate the RTPI displays at stops that are not equipped with a physical display.

Also, I can understand that the displays are separate to bus shelters as these aren't owned by the council. It would be a good idea for the council to insist on bus operators to share bus stop signs. In some places you can the "bus stops" of three operators erected on the pavement. Unnecessary clutter.

LeinsterDub

BrianD wrote: »

It would be useful if the council, DB or private parties were allowed create mobile apps that can simulate the RTPI displays at stops that are not equipped with a physical display.
clutter.

Apps ,SMS are in the pipeline

BrianD

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Apps ,SMS are in the pipeline

Who's doing them?

I know somebody who was interested in doing this. when he contacted the council he was told that there would be a tendering process involved.

KC61

BrianD wrote: »

The placements do seem a little random. Is there a rationale to the locations? For example, there's one outside the Garda Club on Harrington St. but none on the opposite side.

They are being installed at stops that are busy from a loading perspective.

To be fair the inbound stop on Harrington Street is busier from a set down perspective, while the outbound stop has heavier numbers boarding rather than setting down.

bk

BrianD wrote: »

I know somebody who was interested in doing this. when he contacted the council he was told that there would be a tendering process involved.

:mad: They couldn't just create an open and free web service and leave anyone who wanted to create the apps.

I'm sure many CS students would have jumped at creating apps for this service.

Tech3

BrianD wrote: »

It would be useful if the council, DB or private parties were allowed create mobile apps that can simulate the RTPI displays at stops that are not equipped with a physical display.

Absolutely and will update the times depending on your location(GPS). Also it could show the distance and directions to that given bus stop.

xper

KC61 wrote: »

They are being installed at stops that are busy from a loading perspective.

Was in Stillorgan this evening and noticed a silvery new pole beside the inbound shopping centre stop there as we pulled out of the car park. I presume someone has told DLRCC that the 145 and 46A (offically) and 84 (unofficially) don't pass it anymore, just the 47 now. They have, haven't they? :eek: If one doesn't also appear at the dual carriageway stop I might die laughing.

bk wrote:

They couldn't just create an open and free web service and leave anyone who wanted to create the apps.

I just hope they're not looking this as a revenue stream and charge for it like DB did with BUSTXT. Message to DB: You don't charge people to view adverts for your service.

FreudianSlippers

xper wrote: »

Was in Stillorgan this evening and noticed a silvery new pole beside the inbound shopping centre stop there as we pulled out of the car park. I presume someone has told DLRCC that the 145 and 46A (offically) and 84 (unofficially) don't pass it anymore, just the 47 now. They have, haven't they? :eek: If one doesn't also appear at the dual carriageway stop I might die laughing.


I just hope they're not looking this as a revenue stream and charge for it like DB did with BUSTXT. Message to DB: You don't charge people to view adverts for your service.

Yeah, charging would be a huge mistake.

IngazZagni

xper wrote: »

Was in Stillorgan this evening and noticed a silvery new pole beside the inbound shopping centre stop there as we pulled out of the car park. I presume someone has told DLRCC that the 145 and 46A (offically) and 84 (unofficially) don't pass it anymore, just the 47 now. They have, haven't they? :eek: If one doesn't also appear at the dual carriageway stop I might die laughing.

You could argue though that having an electronic timetable inbound at Stillorgan DC is rather pointless as you'd be quite unlucky to be waiting more than 10 mins for a bus anyway. With a bus stop that just has the 47 stopping at it, you could be waiting for well over 30 minutes if unlucky so it may make more sense to have one here. So then a person could read the board which says next bus is the 47 in 40 mins. Person would realize that they just missed the bus and could walk down to the DC to get a bus more quickly.

Sulmac

Saw a pole today beside the 39A bus stop on Nassau Street.

904473

The information on the display screens should be pretty much accurate. It will never be 100% correct in it's present form as it is dependent on input from controllers.

Example: The display reads "Route 128 due in 3 minutes." However, this bus breaks down out of sight and before it reaches the stop. The sign will continue to display the "due in 3 minutes" until the controller curtails the journey on his computer.

If there is an error with the radio data system on a particular bus, you may also get a wrong display time. A bus could just turn up out of the blue and not be listed on the display.

This AVL system is in use in Germany and was developed for German conditions. It is being currently adapted for use in Dublin conditions which are much more difficult to operate a bus service in.

The AVL uses two seperate tracking systems on each bus: Logical and Satellite tracking. Logical measures the distance driven by a unit attached to a wheel on the bus and the satellite tracking is similar to sat-nav on a car. Signals from both units are transmitted via the bus radio unit to transmitter stations every few seconds and this information is forwarded to the computers in the Central Control Unit in Broadstone.

It is a very good system, but like all technology will have glitches now and again.

904473

The following website is currently on test. It gives real time information for buses at one or two test stops. It is probably a little cumbersome in it's current format, but it will give you an idea of what to expect.

http://dublin.acisconnect.com/

noelfirl

Many thanks for that helpful information and link to the test server. I noted this morning/afternoon that poles have appeared on D'Olier and the South Quays from Aston to Usher's at most if not all stops I could see, and at Parkgate St., in addition to those who others have already pointed out that are on College St., College Green, Nassau St. and Abbey St. (and I presume others spots in the city centre as well). I really think these will make one hell of a difference to the dreary wait for commuters playing out the will it/won't it come game in their head. Great stuff.

Chris_5339762

Delighted too that its using OSM data

Sulmac

Noticed a pole yesterday next to the stop on Baggot Street Upper for buses heading into the city centre (the one on the same side as Eddie Rocket's).

bg07

The poles have been appearing steadily in the city centre over the last couple of weeks. Still none on O'Connell Street but hopefully that will change in the coming weeks.

bg07

904473 wrote: »

The following website is currently on test. It gives real time information for buses at one or two test stops. It is probably a little cumbersome in it's current format, but it will give you an idea of what to expect.

http://dublin.acisconnect.com/

Information is shown for a lot more stops now. Some routes such as 41 and 16/16A among others are shown along their entire route. Seems that all stops where buses are from depots where AVLC is rolled out are up on the system now. The website beginning to be useful depending on what buses you get.

KC61

Why is the website useless?

bg07

KC61 wrote: »

Why is the website useless?

Apologies I'm must have been half asleep when I wrote that. Meant to write useful. Post corrected now

baileys3

In todays Evening Herald

http://www.herald.ie/national-news/c...r-2500321.html

By Geraldine Gittens
Tuesday January 18 2011

REAL-time information screens will be operational at Dublin Bus stops by the middle of next month, it has been revealed.

Up to 450 signs will be erected at the city's busiest bus stops, and real-time information on the remaining stops will be available for passengers online.

The new screens will mean that passengers will now be informed on the expected arrival times of their next buses, similar to the Dart and Luas information screens.

Each bus stop will have a four digit "identifier number", which city commuters will be able to search online to check for the next available bus.

Poles for the signs are being erected across the city, and the pilot began last March when tender contracts were awarded.

FACILITY

A spokesperson for the National Transport Authority (NTA) said: "We'll be doing live, dynamic tests by mid-February, and as we're testing we're learning. "It's going to be live, and as far as the commuters are concerned, it will be running.

"The stops that have been chosen are because they're the busiest or there's a lot of interchange with other buses, or it meets a destination or a sporting facility."

The project has been delayed since it was announced early last year that it would be operational by Christmas, with the cold snap blamed.

The NTA spokesperson explained: "It's like every new piece of technology.

"The testing stage is critical and it will be rigorous, and we didn't want to launch into something that wasn't right. The whole December period was a bit of a wipe-out as well.

OPERATIONAL

"It's being tested and piloted all over the system, and where the signs will first be switched on hasn't been decided yet.

"But we'll roll it out very quickly so that it covers the whole city."

Meanwhile, Dublin Bus is in the process of rolling out an automatic vehicle location system (AVLS) on its bus fleet, in tandem with the screens.

The AVLC system operates like a GPS system, and the technology is fitted in Dublin Bus vehicles and this feeds data back to the centralised control centre at Dublin Bus.

A spokesperson explained: "It is operating on all bus routes based in five of our depots. Routes from the remaining two depots will be operational by the end of the first quarter of the year."

BrianD

Is there much activity at the moment? A lot of poles went up before the cold snap but not much has been happening since. I would have thought that they would have a lot of the displays installed by now.

dubb

BrianD wrote: »

Support post has appeared in Rathmines.

The display is up and running now at Lower Rathmines Rd., Junction Williams Park, Stop 1070. Looks good.
It's a great big wide stop too, in front of the new Rathmines pool. Unfortunately the drivers refuse to use it, and instead stop just past the stop in the bus lane. So to read the display you have to walk 20 feet back from where the bus stops.

Any idea why the drivers won't use this stop? There was a smaller one before, and the builders or council did a big job a year or so ago adding in the new wheelchair friendly kerbs, etc., but the drivers insist on stopping in the bus lane instead.

LXFlyer

dubb wrote: »

The display is up and running now at Lower Rathmines Rd., Junction Williams Park, Stop 1070. Looks good.
It's a great big wide stop too, in front of the new Rathmines pool. Unfortunately the drivers refuse to use it, and instead stop just past the stop in the bus lane. So to read the display you have to walk 20 feet back from where the bus stops.

Any idea why the drivers won't use this stop? There was a smaller one before, and the builders or council did a big job a year or so ago adding in the new wheelchair friendly kerbs, etc., but the drivers insist on stopping in the bus lane instead.

Because it is appallingly designed - it's too small to drive a bus into it and align it properly with the kerb.

You would need a much bigger bay especially with the volume of buses driving along Rathmines Road. It would have been far better to have built it flush with the roadway.

That username is already in use.

These digital signs are in English only and are not in compliance with the Official Languages Act.

An Coimisinéir Teanga is currently looking into this.

Even if the signs are on a test run or temporary, they still have to be in Irish, or bilingual.

I do hope that Dublin Bus aren't trying to contravene the regulations like Dublin City Council did with the Way-finding Scheme.

If Dublin Bus didn't tender for a fully bilingual system in the first place, they will now have to go back and spend even more money altering the system to cater for the Irish language.

The legislation is there, and if public bodies ignore it, the tax payer has to pay even more to bring these signs into compliance.

markpb

That username is already in use. wrote: »

These digital signs are in English only and are not in compliance with the Official Languages Act. An Coimisinéir Teanga is currently looking into this.

That username is already in use. wrote: »

I am actually very happy with that.

It means I now have a stronger clout when querying DCC on other issues, not just in relation to language policy. They won't fob me off with blatent lies the next time as they know I will take things further. Goal achieved.

I have learned a lot about the inner workings of the DCC over the past month and I intend to poke about a lot more.

I am nosey and insistant - the government hate that.

Congratulations - after delaying the tourists signs for the city centre and putting more cost on DCC, you're now embarking on another campaign to have useful signs rendered useless at huge cost to the taxpayer.

Do you really believe that changing City Centre into An Lar will encourage people to use Irish? Thank you for reminding me though - I must start lobbying my new FG TDs to have the OL Act scrapped.

L1011

That username is already in use. wrote: »

The legislation is there, and if public bodies ignore it, the tax payer has to pay even more to bring these signs into compliance.

Only when busy-bodies cause that to be the case.

The signs are too small to be bilingual. Nobody - absolutely NOBODY - is reliant on the Irish names for places in Dublin.

Causing extra costs to a broke state isn't going to endear the language to anyone and I sincerely hope our new, non-Irish loving government halt the implementation of the OLA due to it being celtic-tiger era legislation for a now broke land.

Also, why someone living in Carraroe feels *entitled* to repeatedly stick their oar in in Dublin amazes me.

That username is already in use.

markpb wrote: »

Congratulations - after delaying the tourists signs for the city centre and putting more cost on DCC, you're now embarking on another campaign to have useful signs rendered useless at huge cost to the taxpayer.

Do you really believe that changing City Centre into An Lar will encourage people to use Irish?

I don't care if you hate the language, as you will do so 'till your grave, and nothing I say or do will ever make you change your opinion.

Love it or hate it, I am exercising my rights under the OLA and exposing those that are deliberately contravening the legislation.

The only people wasting tax payers' money are those that ignore the legislation in the first place and then have to go back and spend even more money correcting their own mistakes.

I guess you're looking for a two-tier system: Laws that apply, and laws that don't. Good luck with that.

L1011

That username is already in use. wrote: »

Love it or hate it, I am exercising my rights under the OLA and exposing those that are deliberately contravening the legislation

I don't think forgetting a minority language of no relevance is "deliberately contravening"

I'd also think that providing unused translations of documents is possibly the most obvious waste of tax payers money possible; something your beloved OLA causes en masse.

markpb

That username is already in use. wrote: »

I don't care if you hate the language, as you will do so 'till your grave, and nothing I say or do will ever make you change your opinion.

Where did I say I hate it? I've no problem with Irish - I have a problem with it being forced down peoples throats in a useless fashion. I think forcing DCC to put Irish on tourist signs after they had been manufactured and printed was a giant waste of money. I think forcing DB to put An Lar on the RTIS is stupid. I think that money would be better spent on serious Irish initiatives that might make people love it. I genuinely don't believe you love Irish.

Thank you on behalf of all the people who will now get to stare at turned off signs by DCC re-write the software to accommodate precisely no-one (since you don't live in Dublin but care enough about our signs).

L1011

markpb wrote: »

. I think forcing DCC to put Irish on tourist signs after they had been manufactured and printed was a giant waste of money.

It wasn't even that much. He forced them to change the colour of the Irish. - it was already there, and in a different colour to show that it wasn't a second set of attractions...

That username is already in use.

MYOB wrote: »

The signs are too small to be bilingual.

The place names will flick from Irish to English every 3 seconds.

MYOB wrote: »

Causing extra costs to a broke state isn't going to endear the language to anyone

Perhaps Dublin Bus should have followed the law in the first place, then there wouldn't be any extra costs.

MYOB wrote: »

Why someone living in Carraroe feels *entitled* to repeatedly stick their oar in in Dublin amazes me.

I am as Irish as you - we're from the same country. Get over it.

markpb

That username is already in use. wrote: »

I am as Irish as you - we're from the same country. Get over it.

Why can't you answer my question? Do you think this will encourage people to speak Irish?

L1011

That username is already in use. wrote: »

The place names will flick from Irish to English every 3 seconds.

Making them unreadable for nearly all the population half of the time; and requiring software changes that could be either impossible of cost huge amounts of money.

That username is already in use. wrote: »

Perhaps Dublin Bus should have followed the law in the first place, then there wouldn't be any extra costs.

Perhaps the law shouldn't have such ridiculously far reaching provisions as it has. Like most laws drafted under an FF government, its badly thought out and panders to interest groups, no more.

That username is already in use. wrote: »

I am as Irish as you - we're from the same country. Get over it.

I don't feel any right to complain about bus stop design in Connemara.

bg07

That username is already in use. wrote: »

Perhaps Dublin Bus should have followed the law in the first place, then there wouldn't be any extra costs.

Stop blaming Dublin Bus. The rollout of these signs is the responsility of your old arch nemesis DCC

That username is already in use.

markpb wrote: »

Why can't you answer my question? Do you think this will encourage people to speak Irish?

Having public signage primarily in Irish will re-enforce the attitude for the next generation that Irish is the first official language of this State. Overhaul of the Irish curriculum and more Gaelscoils will bring more Irish speakers.

That is my goal, and I will use these laws to ensure that Irish comes before English in the public realm.

I really couldn't care less about posters here that hate the language. You will never learn it or speak it, you will forever hate it, so you are a lost cause to me.

It is my children and the next generation that I am concerned about. I want them to grow up loving the language and speaking it fluently, and to see as much Irish in the public realm as possible.

Next target is road signage, which is not covered under the OLA. We're going to change that. See here for proposed signage.

I have many other schemes going on, which will absolutely sicken all of you you here.

I have a tin whistle and bodhrán class every Wed for free - have about 30 - 40 students. I also have an Irish cómhrá circle every other Monday for all ages.

Anyway, it's pretty clear I'm up against the huge anti-Irish lobby here, so I'll move on and return once I have another signage issue to complain about.

Byeeee!

L1011

That username is already in use. wrote: »

Next target is road signage, which is not covered under the OLA. We're going to change that. See here for proposed signage.

Seeing as we've just had a new TSM published, I think you can put that delusion away where it belongs.

How come its OK for Irish to be a different colour there and not on DCC tourist signs? Oh yes, because you enjoy being awkward.


You may also remember that public signage was nearly entirely in Irish until about 20 years ago; it did absolutely nothing to "reinforce" the language. The OLA and its provisions just allow a tiny, shouty group to be awkward and think they're winning.

You make a very big, very dangerous and I suspect hilariously wrong assumption that people who think you're doing nothing other than wasting public funds for the hell of it "hate" Irish and can't speak it.

frankymail

We live in Ireland, these place names were Originally in Irish before they were changed to suit others. I think it's important that these signs, regardless of who uses them should have the place names in Irish. If one thing was to remain in Irish from here on in I feel that place names are one of the most important things to remain rooted to their origins.

What harm would it be even to rule out the English 'place name' from common use and replace it with the Irish. It could take a while and would clearly have to be done in Phases but it really would make no odds.

On a seperate note, these signs look like they could help the shoddy transport network at least a little. Intergrated Ticketing now and we're sorted. Nach bhfuil?

That username is already in use.

MYOB wrote: »

The OLA and its provisions just allow a tiny, shouty group to be awkward and think they're winning.

And, my, do we shout loudly! Good luck, buddy!

markpb

frankymail wrote: »

We live in Ireland, these place names were Originally in Irish before they were changed to suit others.

I think you'll find that that's patently untrue in Dublin. O'Connell St (or An Lar as DB customers probably know it better ) was previously Drogheda Street and Sackville St. Most of areas in Dublin have only come into existence in the last forty years when English was far more prominent than Irish.

L1011

frankymail wrote: »

We live in Ireland, these place names were Originally in Irish before they were changed to suit others.

Actually, a vast amount of them were never in Irish. We're talking specifically about Dublin here, lots of areas named by the Brits or by 20th Century housing developers.

The older names were generally transformed in to Irish from their actual original names given to them in the Viking era (and in some cases the English comes from this, e.g. Leixlip).

Very very few Dublin places have an "original" in Irish.

frankymail wrote: »

I think it's important that these signs, regardless of who uses them should have the place names in Irish. If one thing was to remain in Irish from here on in I feel that place names are one of the most important things to remain rooted to their origins.

See above for there "origins"

frankymail wrote: »

What harm would it be even to rule out the English 'place name' from common use and replace it with the Irish. It could take a while and would clearly have to be done in Phases but it really would make no odds.

Massive harm. Most people do not know the Irish names for places. Information signs that don't inform are pointless.

That username is already in use.

frankymail wrote: »

What harm would it be even to rule out the English 'place name' from common use and replace it with the Irish. It could take a while and would clearly have to be done in Phases but it really would make no odds.

This is still on the cards, Frankymail.

Dún Laoghaire was originally Kingstown, before independence.

Cobh was originally Queenstown

They tried to change Bray to Brí Chualainn, but the likes of the people here refused it.

I would be in favor of changing names back to Irish, as long as they are easy to spell for English-speakers. eg
- Dundrum = Dún Droma
- Bray = Bré
- Shankill = Seanchill

We need to wait a generation for this to happen though. Overhaul of Irish in schools and more Gaelscoils.

L1011

That username is already in use. wrote: »

This is still on the cards, Frankymail.

Dún Laoghaire was originally Kingstown, before independence.

Cobh was originally Queenstown

They tried to change Bray to Brí Chualainn, but the likes of the people here refused it.

I would be in favor of changing names back to Irish, as long as they are easy to spell for English-speakers. eg
- Dundrum = Dún Droma
- Bray = Bré
- Shankill = Seanchill

We need to wait a generation for this to happen though. Overhaul of Irish in schools and more Gaelscoils.

I rather think the recent return to Newbridge, Charleville, Navan, Kells and indeed Baegnalstown over the attempts for the Irish versions show that this is, again, a delusion.

The country is never going to use Irish placenames outside the Gaeltacht and indeed, not very much within it either.

That username is already in use.

MYOB wrote: »

Very very few Dublin places have an "original" in Irish.

Absolute bullsh!t. Of course the British street names don't have original Irish ones. They were streets laid out by the British.

But you think that there are "very few" Gaelic place names in Dublin? Wow. Maybe you need to have another look at the bilingual singage that you hate so much.

L1011

That username is already in use. wrote: »

Absolute bullsh!t. Of course the British street names don't have original Irish ones. They were streets laid out by the British.

But you think that there are "very few" Gaelic place names in Dublin? Wow. Maybe you need to have another look at the bilingual singage that you hate so much.

Maybe if you actually lived over here, you'd be aware that Dublin Bus stops are generally named after streets.

And aware that Dublin street signs generally have made up 'translations' of streets named entirely in English. Or aware that the "Gaelic" for many places is a bastardisation of pre-Irish names from other languages.

But you don't, so you're not.

sdanseo

MYOB wrote: »

I don't feel any right to complain about bus stop design in Connemara.

The chances of you having to use a bus stop in Connemara may be remote, but people from the country do often come to Dublin and may want to read the signs.

Irish should be kept alive, I'd say about half the people in this city only know a cúpla focail purely BECAUSE of bilingual signage.

As for costing a huge amout to get the software to flick from Irish to English - on yer bike. It's not an expensive job if it's possible and if it is, well sorry but Bus Átha Cliath, to give them their official name, should have thought of it if it's bloody well legislated for, shouldn't they!

I do see your point, but the law is the law and all that. Pfffft. How many people speak scottish or welsh, yet their respective puppet psuedo-governments legioslate for bilinguity as well.

L1011

sdonn wrote: »

I do see your point, but the law is the law and all that. Pfffft.

The law is an ass, as the term goes. Badly written law designed to appease O'Cuiv's mates.

Getting back to the practicality of this: its completely and utterly pointless due to the lack of actual Irish names for most of the places the signs will ever show; only makey-up translations. Take a look at the picture used to open the thread:



Only Rathmines has an actual Irish name and not an invention. Most inbound buses terminate at places with no actual Irish language name; and I'd say over half of outbound ones do too - for instance the routes to Maynooth (which does have an Irish name) will shortly be terminating in "Meadowbrook" and "Moyglare Hall" (and currently terminate at "Kingsbry" and "Opp. Glenroyal S/C"). Not one of those existed prior to 1980, all are named in English, and one of them is named after a manor house which also never had an Irish name. The signs are going to need to state this due to the fact that they're in the region of a mile and a half apart.

If our agitator gets a pointless change rolled out, all he'll get will be bolloxed up translations shown for 3 seconds a go; at a cost to the state. He'll feel all smug inside, and then rarely if ever get to see the fruits of his labour.