General UFC Chit Chat/News

scudzilla

stiffler123 wrote: »

Stupid comment, he was UFC heavyweight champion as well. That deserves some respect.

Not really, here's my take on his UFC fights

Lost v Frank Mir

Made a rookie mistake that anybody with a bit of cop on wouldn't have fallen for.

Won v Herring

Lied on top of the guy for 15mins, Well done Brock, Size really does matter

Won v Randy Couture

Beat a man well past his prime and what, 20yrs his senior??

Won v Frank Mir

Maybe, just maybe, the best performance of his career, even then it was a poor Frank Mir in the cage that night

Won v Shane Carwin

If that first round had gone for an extra 30 seconds he'd have lost, Carwin had the gas tank of a slug and had nothing at all left in the second.

Lost v Cain

Brock's been found out and lost against, IMO, the first PROPER challenge of his career

Lost v Overeem

Again, another quality opponent and he gets destroyed.

Brock's not stupid, he knew he'd been found out and couldn't live with the top guys

El Guapo!

stiffler123 wrote: »

Stupid comment, he was UFC heavyweight champion as well. That deserves some respect.

He was heavyweight champ so he deserves some credit for that but he never was a top tier fighter. He was champ at a time when the heavyweight division was struggling and he had probably the easiest run to a belt ever.
He suffered from diverticulitis twice and had a hard time with that but even if he had've been 100% healthy I don't think he was ever an elite fighter.
From a career point of view he made the right move going back to wrestling as he was never going to be a serious contender again.

scudzilla wrote: »

Not really, here's my take on his UFC fights

Lost v Frank Mir

Made a rookie mistake that anybody with a bit of cop on wouldn't have fallen for.

Won v Herring

Lied on top of the guy for 15mins, Well done Brock, Size really does matter

Won v Randy Couture

Beat a man well past his prime and what, 20yrs his senior??

Won v Frank Mir

Maybe, just maybe, the best performance of his career, even then it was a poor Frank Mir in the cage that night

Won v Shane Carwin

If that first round had gone for an extra 30 seconds he'd have lost, Carwin had the gas tank of a slug and had nothing at all left in the second.

Lost v Cain

Brock's been found out and lost against, IMO, the first PROPER challenge of his career

Lost v Overeem

Again, another quality opponent and he gets destroyed.

Brock's not stupid, he knew he'd been found out and couldn't live with the top guys

I agree with just about all of this. ^^^

stiffler123

scudzilla wrote: »

Not really, here's my take on his UFC fights

Lost v Frank Mir

Made a rookie mistake that anybody with a bit of cop on wouldn't have fallen for.

Won v Herring

Lied on top of the guy for 15mins, Well done Brock, Size really does matter

Won v Randy Couture

Beat a man well past his prime and what, 20yrs his senior??

Won v Frank Mir

Maybe, just maybe, the best performance of his career, even then it was a poor Frank Mir in the cage that night

Won v Shane Carwin

If that first round had gone for an extra 30 seconds he'd have lost, Carwin had the gas tank of a slug and had nothing at all left in the second.

Lost v Cain

Brock's been found out and lost against, IMO, the first PROPER challenge of his career

Lost v Overeem

Again, another quality opponent and he gets destroyed.

Brock's not stupid, he knew he'd been found out and couldn't live with the top guys

So basically you are discounting every win of his UFC career, wow. He layed and prayed on top of Herring, Carwin would of won if rounds were 5:30 each, the heavyweight champion Randy was old and Frank Mir didn't show up that day. A bit biased no?

He was very bad in his last two fights admittedly. I think the diverticulitis could of played a part in that but hard to know. I think Overeem would of beaten him pre or post diverticulitis though tbh. But every win in his UFC career he earned. All in all, Brock was a worthy champion.

stiffler123

@ Dean09, I agree on your point that he had an easier run to the title than most.

MrStuffins

scudzilla wrote: »

Not really, here's my take on his UFC fights

Lost v Frank Mir

Made a rookie mistake that anybody with a bit of cop on wouldn't have fallen for.

Won v Herring

Lied on top of the guy for 15mins, Well done Brock, Size really does matter

Won v Randy Couture

Beat a man well past his prime and what, 20yrs his senior??

Won v Frank Mir

Maybe, just maybe, the best performance of his career, even then it was a poor Frank Mir in the cage that night

Won v Shane Carwin

If that first round had gone for an extra 30 seconds he'd have lost, Carwin had the gas tank of a slug and had nothing at all left in the second.

Lost v Cain

Brock's been found out and lost against, IMO, the first PROPER challenge of his career

Lost v Overeem

Again, another quality opponent and he gets destroyed.

Brock's not stupid, he knew he'd been found out and couldn't live with the top guys

Jaysus, i'd have expected more from you man.

It's like "He won? Well, here's an excuse. Oh he lost, he's not good enough".

Brock deserves nothing but respect! So what if he wasn't the best HW of all time? Does that mean everybody who doesn't reach best of all time should be ridiculed? he stepped in and beat some legit fighters! Frank Mir, Heath Herring, Randy! I can't believe people are scoffing at what he's done!

I was not hapy when I heard that Brock was being given a chance in the UFC. I was especially peeved when he got a shot at the title!

But the guy almost died twice and he dodged nobody. He fought who was put in front of him. He WAS thrown in at the deep-end, I don't care what anyone says about Heath Herring. A 1-1 fighter going in against one of the most experienced HWs in the sport and after Brock wins: "Well, it's only Heath Herring".

Fighting against top competition and coming out 4-2 is not something to be ashamed of!

scudzilla

MrStuffins wrote: »

Jaysus, i'd have expected more from you man.

It's like "He won? Well, here's an excuse. Oh he lost, he's not good enough".

Brock deserves nothing but respect! So what if he wasn't the best HW of all time? Does that mean everybody who doesn't reach best of all time should be ridiculed? he stepped in and beat some legit fighters! Frank Mir, Heath Herring, Randy! I can't believe people are scoffing at what he's done!

I was not hapy when I heard that Brock was being given a chance in the UFC. I was especially peeved when he got a shot at the title!

But the guy almost died twice and he dodged nobody. He fought who was put in front of him. He WAS thrown in at the deep-end, I don't care what anyone says about Heath Herring. A 1-1 fighter going in against one of the most experienced HWs in the sport and after Brock wins: "Well, it's only Heath Herring".

Fighting against top competition and coming out 4-2 is not something to be ashamed of!

What i was tryin to say, maybe i didn't get my point across correctly, is that i think he was given a pretty easy ride all the way to the title, and was found out to be a very average MMA fighter, not saying he ducked anyone.

I too, same as you, didn't like Brock when he came into UFC/MMA, i just didn't like what he came from, and a few of his post fight rants (Mir 2nd fight IIRC) justified my concerns.

He was/is a huge HW, and i would have preferred him to actually fight rather than go in with a game plan of lie on top of a person and just uise his size

MrStuffins

But even if that's what he was, average, he still deserves respect IMO!

it's not as if he was one of these guys who talked a game and didn't back it up. He got in there and tested himself and had some success. Yes, he was given an "easier" road to the title having just won 1 fight and got a shot. But for me, that's not the point.

Even if he'd never won the belt, he got in with some top guys and beat most of those he got in there with. He then fought 2 of perhaps the Top 3 in the world and got beaten badly but still, this isn't anything to be ashamed of!

DrPhilG

scudzilla wrote: »

i would have preferred him to actually fight rather than go in with a game plan of lie on top of a person and just uise his size

Which his record of 1 decision win out of 5 shows eh? Come on, he fought cautiously against Herring because he would probably have been out on his ear and looking foolish if he lost. And it was hardly a lay'n'pray win either, he beat the tripe out of Herring for 15 minutes.

TKO'd Randy and Mir, submitted Carwin and battered some poor wee Korean fella. You're only looking daft if you say he used a game plan of lying on top of people as if he was just a big HW Jon Fitch.

Logical Fallacy

scudzilla wrote: »

What i was tryin to say, maybe i didn't get my point across correctly, is that i think he was given a pretty easy ride all the way to the title, and was found out to be a very average MMA fighter, not saying he ducked anyone.

I too, same as you, didn't like Brock when he came into UFC/MMA, i just didn't like what he came from, and a few of his post fight rants (Mir 2nd fight IIRC) justified my concerns.

He was/is a huge HW, and i would have preferred him to actually fight rather than go in with a game plan of lie on top of a person and just uise his size

I'm not sure I agree with the easy ride. If he had been 10-15 fights deep in his career then maybe.

But he entered the UFC off one fight. I imagine when you are new to the sport, fighting guys with plenty of experience, 1 former champ, 1 current champ and 1 interim champ that such things need to be considered.

scudzilla

i guess i just don't like him too much

MrStuffins

Stephen_King

DrPhilG wrote: »

Which his record of 1 decision win out of 5 shows eh? Come on, he fought cautiously against Herring because he would probably have been out on his ear and looking foolish if he lost. And it was hardly a lay'n'pray win either, he beat the tripe out of Herring for 15 minutes.

TKO'd Randy and Mir, submitted Carwin and battered some poor wee Korean fella. You're only looking daft if you say he used a game plan of lying on top of people as if he was just a big HW Jon Fitch.

True enough. I dont quite get all the Lesnar hate-well the hate I can understand, but saying he's not legit is a bit much. In fairness, he beat the absolute bejesus out of Heath Herring and Frank Mir (the second time), neither exactly being slouches.

I think the biggest mistake he made was getting rid of Greg Nelson as his trainer-all downhill from there.

DrPhilG

His gameplan against Overeem was terrible too. I think he was losing heart in it at that stage. I could see some sense in standing with him for a little while, because Reem looked crap against Werdum standing due to his fear of the takedown. But when Overeem started to tag him it should have been a double leg in a flash. Instead he kept trying to strike back and ended up getting his guts kneed to hell.

Mr. Loverman

threeball wrote: »

Couldn't stick the heat, made his excuses and ran.
Can be a champion in the world of make believe again.

What a laughable comment. He was brave enough to fight some of the best fighters and retired due to a medical problem.

Now he is an entertainer making millions.

I am sure your bravery and success rivals his, right?

scudzilla

Mr. Loverman wrote: »

What a laughable comment. He was brave enough to fight some of the best fighters and retired due to a medical problem.

Now he is an entertainer making millions.

I am sure your bravery and success rivals his, right?

Surely WWE is more dangerous and much more strenuous than MMA?

I mean he could be 'performing' 3/4 nights a week, getting thrown around all over the shop and getting a lot of injuries, rather than 15 mins in a cage every 3/4 months.

Sure i know that MMA is real and the other isn't, but the amount of serious injuries and deaths in professional wrestling far outweighs those in MMA

Mellor

scudzilla wrote: »

Surely WWE is more dangerous and much more strenuous than MMA?

I mean he could be 'performing' 3/4 nights a week, getting thrown around all over the shop and getting a lot of injuries, rather than 15 mins in a cage every 3/4 months.

Sure i know that MMA is real and the other isn't, but the amount of serious injuries and deaths in professional wrestling far outweighs those in MMA

Wrestling can be dangerous, its definitely a high risk form of entertainment. Pain killer addiction isn't uncommon.

But Brock isn't who he once was. The illness took a lot out of him, and he new contract reflects that. He is has a pretty light schedule (relatively speaking), and its only 12 mnoths long.

loremolis

I think the lack of a UFC event in what seems like ages has got you guys going through " cold turkey".

A discussion on the merits of Brock Lesnar's career and the dangers of performing in the UFC, cold turkey talk if I ever saw it.

Don't worry guys, while it seems like forever since the last UFC, Jones v Evans is up soon and you'll feel much better again,

PS. I always laugh when I see that the crowd at WWE events consists most of screaming "adults". I can understand kids enjoying it but FFS what is the mental age of the average American?

Mr. Loverman

scudzilla wrote: »

Surely WWE is more dangerous and much more strenuous than MMA?

I mean he could be 'performing' 3/4 nights a week, getting thrown around all over the shop and getting a lot of injuries, rather than 15 mins in a cage every 3/4 months.

Sure i know that MMA is real and the other isn't, but the amount of serious injuries and deaths in professional wrestling far outweighs those in MMA

I think for his particular medical issue, getting kicked or punched in the abdomen area is the biggest risk -- you could see this in his last fight.

But definitely WWE seems to be very bad if you want to live long...

Jimmy Bottlehead

scudzilla wrote: »

I too, same as you, didn't like Brock when he came into UFC/MMA, i just didn't like what he came from, and a few of his post fight rants (Mir 2nd fight IIRC) justified my concerns.
e

I always have such a problem with this sort of crap.

Yes Brock transitioned from professional wrestling over to MMA... so what? You might want to remember that he was an exceptional amateur wrestler prior to that, which is a big reason for why he was signed by WWE.

Also, there are a lot of guys in professional wrestling that, at a different time, would currently be in MMA, possibly the UFC. MMA wasn't around in the 1980's, and was way under the radar in the 1990's and early 2000's. During these decades, pro wrestling was huge, and a lot of guys went into it due to the money that can be earned. There wasn't money to be made in the MMA / Vale Tudo style of fighting, so they went with what would pay the bills.

Pro wrestling is entertainment, it's marketed as such. But the guys in it are tremendous athletes, with many having backgrounds in high level american football, amateur wrestling, and other sports along with some who were simply big, ugly and tough; if MMA had been earlier, there's very little reason why the likes of Kurt Angle, Steve Blackman, Shelton Benjamin and others wouldn't have tried and experienced varying levels of success.

Those with a vendetta against Brock should also remember that the likes of Ken Shamrock, Dan Severn, Don Frye and Kazushi Sakuraba all switched to pro wrestling at some point.
They are very honestly and very simply two different things - one is a legitimate sport, the other is pre-determined entertainment. If you can't see the difference, then you need to take a step back and knock that chip off your shoulder.

Leeg17

Jimmy Bottlehead wrote: »

Yes Brock transitioned from professional wrestling over to MMA... so what?

Exactly, you see a few ex-NFL players in UFC too. To me it doesn't matter what they did before hand really, I base my judgement on how they do in the Octagon.

p to the e

I wonder if all the points above about Brock were made about Tim Sylvia would the feeling be the same. Damn it I want the Maine-iac back in!

califano

Its a bit of an aul wait from the last UFC to the next one. Is there usually one or two decent gaps of time between events like this per year?. It seemed non stop up to the last one.

Professey Chin

rounders123 wrote: »

Its a bit of an aul wait from the last UFC to the next one. Is there usually one or two decent gaps of time between events like this per year?. It seemed non stop up to the last one.

It needed a break tbh.
Well more accurately I needed a break and some fcukin sleep :pac:

threeball

Mr. Loverman wrote: »

What a laughable comment. He was brave enough to fight some of the best fighters and retired due to a medical problem.

Now he is an entertainer making millions.

I am sure your bravery and success rivals his, right?

No he retired so he could spend more time with his family according to himself. Either way both excuses don't really hold any water as he will spend even less time with his family now thats hes travelling with the WWE rather than training for 2 fights a year and I doubt dive bombing onto the canvas will be any better for his illness than taking a kick to the guts.

The reality is, Brock was happy when he was beating the pish out off people. As soon as he started getting hit and it became apparent he wasn't going to have the top dog position he craves then he picked up the ball and went home.

scudzilla

threeball wrote: »

No he retired so he could spend more time with his family according to himself. Either way both excuses don't really hold any water as he will spend even less time with his family now thats hes travelling with the WWE rather than training for 2 fights a year and I doubt dive bombing onto the canvas will be any better for his illness than taking a kick to the guts.

The reality is, Brock was happy when he was beating the pish out off people. As soon as he started getting hit and it became apparent he wasn't going to have the top dog position he craves then he picked up the ball and went home.

Nail on head

themandan6611

The Great Chinholio wrote: »

It needed a break tbh.
Well more accurately I needed a break and some fcukin sleep :pac:

not a problem old deano has :pac::pac::pac::pac:

Xlami

http://mmajunkie.com/news/28109/alistair-overeem-fails-pre-fight-drug-test-likely-out-of-ufc-146-title-fight.mma

Reem popped for drugs, out of 146.

**** this I give up.

loremolis

Guesses on who will replce him, my money is tht it'll be Mir.

Zero-Cool

Ah what!!! Interesting to hear Reem's side on things.

Would love if Mir got the shot but dunno how the UFC could actually pick between Mir & Cain. Cain would have the better chance but nice to see Mir have a lash.

SDTimeout

Wrestling is an art imo. So is BJJ. I know one is scripted and the other is real but I'd say the excitement that I got from watching Mendes vs Rader at the Pan Ams this weekend is akin to a wrestling fan enjoying a match.