dental tourism hungary

fred252

as a side note;

do the dentists posting here give favourable rates to boardies?

btkm8unsl0w5r4

Are rates are great, we dont charge for our advice here at all.

How about this one, ear to ear bridgework in a grinder, no treatment of the erosion problem. Made out of some metal unknown to science....fit was so bad everything rotted out in under 3 years. Big TMJ problems.




or this one is a peach, bridges over impacted teeth, and except for the molar root canal done by an irish specialist all the other endos have been painful. And yes all one piece that bridge. The lower incisors had attempted root treatments and were all perforated.



It would be almost funny except for the pain, trauma and wasted money for these patients,

ballsymchugh

Good God. there are so many things wrong there i wouldn't be able to keep a straight face explaining it all. what a feckin chancer.

btkm8unsl0w5r4

I am sure people have good experiences with dental tourism, however please don't tell me I am making up the scale of the issues that can arise when dentists try to take on treatment beyone them, using inferior protocols, shot time periods and inferior materials and poor choice of materials, I can post pictures until the cows come home

Acrylic fused to gold coloured metal, poor bridge design fractured peer abutment and caries under overcontoured margins....placed 4 years previously. All joined together, all loose......

btkm8unsl0w5r4

And again. Went for cosmetic treatment, go these ugly crowns although to some they might look OK (some like steve wonder). Real problems was that they are all joined together. This is done to avoid having to worry about contacts between the teeth when it come to the fit date. The crown have to fit cause the patient is on a plane that evening. It make the lab steps quicker, ensures things have a nice sloppy fit and that even it one rots out the thing stays in place preserving the "warranty" this patient was very disappointed as they went for "cosmetic" treatment. There were root canal problems on 8 teeth also.

flahavaj

These people have basically been assaulted.

ballsymchugh

flahavaj wrote: »

These people have basically been assaulted.

precisely, but when they come in to you here, and you tell them that one of the abutments is completely shot and the bridge will need sectioning to remove the mushy roots that they can't see, all of a sudden you're the baxtard. i see that quite a bit among the new irish community!

btkm8unsl0w5r4

flahavaj wrote: »

These people have basically been assaulted.

It breaks my heart when I see these cases. People spent X thousands of euro on this work because it would have cost 2X to get it done properly and they could not afford 2X. Now its going to cost 3X to fix it. So total spend 4X.

I am sure there are good dentists in these countries that cringe at these cases, but I would also suspect they charge more and are unwilling to carry out large treatment for people that are not resident.

I retreated some of those cases and it took 20+ visits over several months or years to complete. The lab bills alone on these cost more than the original treatment.

btkm8unsl0w5r4

Follow this link, all you need to know.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056182108

helimachoptor

Jesus, some really eye opening stuff above lads.
I'm back to the dentist who did my impant + crowns (belfast) next friday but so far no issues to report apart from a lot of smiling

yobr

Meadow Millions Revolution wrote: »

It breaks my heart when I see these cases. People spent X thousands of euro on this work because it would have cost 2X to get it done properly and they could not afford 2X. Now its going to cost 3X to fix it. So total spend 4X.

I am sure there are good dentists in these countries that cringe at these cases, but I would also suspect they charge more and are unwilling to carry out large treatment for people that are not resident.

I appreciate your concern for patients and the more information people get the more informed they can be as consumers. However, I assume these pictures are from actual patients who are attending dentists who post on here?

If this is the case and these photograph's form part of their dental records...how does posting these photographs on the internet comply with the requirements of the Dental Council on dental ethics (copy below)

http://www.dentalcouncil.ie/g_dentalethics.php


16.Dentists have a duty to maintain adequate and accurate records of all matters relating to their treatment of patients. These records should be kept in a secure location and retained for a reasonable period, not likely to be less than ten years, before being destroyed.

btkm8unsl0w5r4

yobr you do look up a lot of dental guidelines and reports for what ever reasons you have.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=67319533&postcount=98
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=68028053&postcount=5
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=68873259&postcount=2

However in this case:

1. Patients of mine all agree to the use of anonymous photos for demonstration, promotional and educations purposes. However consent is not required for the use of data which by it self cannot identify the patient. Full face shots...no, intraoral and X-ray are fine.
2. The photos are non identifying or linked with patient identifying data, and do not breach confidentiality or constitute publication of private patient data.
3. The ethical guidelines refer to security from the view of protecting the integrity of paper documents or records from fire, loss or damage (these guidelines are ancient). The Data Protection Acts 1988 & 2003 (with is law unlike ethical guidelines) covers electronic records.
4. Under the Data Protection Acts 1988 & 2003 states "You may pass on anonymised or aggregate data, from which individual patients cannot be identified"
5. How is this different in any way from the dental tourism companies, agency's and dentists posting full face shots of their patients and testimonials.

Also the ethical guidlines state that:
"The dentist should assume a responsible role in the community. He/she should endeavour to promote measures to improve the health and especially the dental health of the community." and also "When a dentist comes across treatment which in his/her opinion is so unsatisfactory that it must be carried out again he/she has an obligation, both legal and ethical, to so inform the patient." so reading between the lines we are ethically obliged to inform patients about bad work and also the community of the possible dangers to their dental health in dental tourism and as can be see from this thread a picture is worth a thousand words.


From a previous post of yours on the topic of dental tourism
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=65938376&postcount=6

yobr wrote: »

One of the key aspects of dental tourism is empowering customers with information. In all aspects of medical and dental treatment customers need information to enable them to make informed choices - the recent Competition Authority report on competition in the dental sector acknowledged this.

This thread is more information, in a way prospective patients can see and understand easily about possible dangers of dental tourism. Why as a previous champion of the dental consumers issues & patient empowerment would you be trolling for reasons not to disseminate this information or get this information removed?

Big_G

BOOM

yobr

Meadow Millions Revolution wrote: »

yobr you do look up a lot of dental guidelines and reports for what ever reasons you have.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=67319533&postcount=98
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=68028053&postcount=5
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=68873259&postcount=2

From a previous post of yours on the topic of dental tourism
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=65938376&postcount=6


This thread is more information, in a way prospective patients can see and understand easily about possible dangers of dental tourism. Why as a previous champion of the dental consumers issues & patient empowerment would you be trolling for reasons not to disseminate this information or get this information removed?

Well I seem to have struck a chord here as you have resorted to looking back over my previous posts to answer this query....hmmmm...I wonder...To answer your first question, not that I need too, this is an internet discussion forum on dental issues, and I am allowed read and post links to any publication, guideline or article which is relevant to the question being asked. Perhaps you feel that I am not allowed contribute in such a way or that only dentists are allowed do so? Or maybe it is simply that you didn't agree with what I posted and issue like the Competition Authority report should be kept in the dark?

On this particular topic, I raised a simple question which you have answered..

I absolutely reject your suggestion that I was trolling, and your attempt to discredit me and my previous posts in this forum. Maybe you just don't want people posting here who have contrary views to yours. I simply asked what I felt was a relevant question. One would expect that debate and discussion would be encouraged rather questioning the motives of posters who are aware of current dental issues and point other posters in the direction of relevant assistance.

btkm8unsl0w5r4

I look up everyone's threads and post history when they post, your post history is a published record of your views which you wish to share with the community, and also I remembered you from before, its part of my job as moderator to see what agenda a poster is pushing if any and to find the many many shills that pose as patients or impartial parties. If I didn't then this forum would be one big advertisement and means to boost google rankings. And that information would mislead consumers which would be bad.

(BTW I dont believe dental patients are consumers, you do not consume healthcare. Knowledge is asymmetric in professions, and when those with little knowledge are allowed to shout the loudest it leads to poor advice, misinformation and consequently damage to peoples dentition, wallets and confidence in the dental profession as a whole.)

conjomu

Just wondering what anyone has to say about going to Budapest for dental treatment. I'm hoping to get crowns replaced. I got them done here (Ireland) about ten years ago, and they are starting to look a bit crap and need to be redone. I'm hoping that the procedure will be more straightforward because a lot of the work has already been done, and it's just a matter of replacing the porcelain on metal crowns with zirconium crowns

btkm8unsl0w5r4

conjomu wrote: »

Just wondering what anyone has to say about going to Budapest for dental treatment. I'm hoping to get crowns replaced. I got them done here (Ireland) about ten years ago, and they are starting to look a bit crap and need to be redone. I'm hoping that the procedure will be more straightforward because a lot of the work has already been done, and it's just a matter of replacing the porcelain on metal crowns with zirconium crowns

See 76 posts above....;)

btkm8unsl0w5r4

Here another

Didnt travel so far this time but out of the ROI
3 implants placed and Upper and lower overdentures. 4 years ago. Lower denture broke into pieces soon after. Ball attachments in the roots fell out. Both lower implants failed and loose. Upper implant unrestorable position and the entire top has fractured off. Re treatment difficulty very high. The original dentist is refusing to return his calls.

btkm8unsl0w5r4

Another. Done 3 years ago turkey spent around 4500 euro. In total there are 6 infected teeth. Patient spent 2000euro to go back to turkey for remedial treatment and was told everything was fine. Came to me with crown snapped off. Need all upper teeth extracted and 6-8 implants. Again the teeth are all joined together making cleaning impossible. Nothing fits correctly. Gum problems, decay, root canal treatment very poor or totally not done. She has been in constant pain for 2 years. Estimated cost of re-treatment 30k + 6500 already spent getting her mouth destroyed. 18 months and 20 visits.

She was happy for one year and told all her friends it was great. I wonder how many of those friends told others that "they know a woman who went to turkey and had a great job at a fraction of the price" It is nice an white alright but the quality of the laboratory work is shockingly poor, total over-treatment, no attention to detail. All completed in one week. For this lady her mouth is a total disaster.

btkm8unsl0w5r4

Another - young lady with very good teeth. Wanted veneers on her front 6 teeth as congenitally missing a tooth was not aesthetic. Went on boards.ie, I advised caution and was slated by the anecdyotal evidence spouting posters and those that have since turned out to be shills. ( http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055998870). Went to Budapest to a self proclaimed "top dental clinic" and got veneers for 300 euro each in one week. Within 3 weeks of coming home she has had 3 fall off and had to pay to have them replaced. The veneers are ugly, bulky, yellow, don't fit even remotely properly to the teeth (anyone noticing a trend here) and causing gum problems. She was not happy but because she was leaving the day they were fit she was rushed into accepting them. One tooth is a crown (sold as a fancy Zirconium crown and is anything but) which is totally different in colour to the rest.
Please not these are only 3 weeks old. Cosmetic dentistry is a real skill taking time and money to get a excellent result. Veneers can only bond predictable to enamel, teeth teeth now have little enamel left if any and may require crowns. This bad work has cost her a lot of tooth structure.

Re-treatment cost of this case 7500 euro + original cost + flights + hotel.

btkm8unsl0w5r4

Another - This lady got some implants not so far out of the republic. I think the pictures speak for themselves. The implants look like they were placed by a blind woodsman. Treatment planning non existent, so much wrong I dont know where to start. She is now find coming to my Dublin practice too far

None of her work fits surprise surprise :rolleyes: More to follow...................

davo10

Meadow Millions Revolution wrote: »

Another - This lady got some implants not so far out of the republic. I think the pictures speak for themselves. The implants look like they were placed by a blind woodsman. Treatment planning non existent, so much wrong I dont know where to start. She is now find coming to my Dublin practice too far

None of her work fits surprise surprise :rolleyes: More to follow...................


HOLY S**T, all out Fitz I presume and start again?

btkm8unsl0w5r4

Yep Davo all out 6 in the upper and a hybrid and one in the lower and a chrome. (funds are tight) however she will not go ahead because she does not want to travel....oh the irony.

davo10

The madness continues.

dudara

You're scaring the cr*p outta me with all these pics. So glad I have a good dentist!

davo10

Dudara, they are the pics we can post, there are a lot worse ones that we do not feel are in the publics interest to see.

btkm8unsl0w5r4

dudara as consumer issues mod I hope you point a few of those dental threads to this location. The fact is (and some dentists dont acknowledge this) that there is a massive difference in quality of dental work ( particularly advanced proceedures) depending on the dentist and their attention to detail. Take a good dentist and put them under time and budget pressures and you turn a good dentist into a bad one (good dentist wont be put under time pressure and price themselves accordingly). Take a bad dentist and put them under time and budget pressures and you can only imaging what you get.

I am only one dentist, there are cases like this in every practice in ireland. Maybe I and a few other on here are just a bit more proactive about documenting them.

This is my experaince with this type of work. THis is not some layperson talking to Feddy down the pub with great looking white knashers and coming on boards saying sure its great I know a chap, or my mammy got them done and there great. I have grave reservations about high speed, low cost access to advanced dentistry in distant locations. If I save one person from a lifetime of dental problems thank to this thread then its worth the effort.

ballsymchugh

one of my patients during the week was extremely pleased with the work they had done in hungary last year. they originally went over to fill two gaps, and was there for a week.
they came back with a bridge in each quadrant and 8 root canal treatments. one of the bridges was the usual 3 crowns in a row cast in one go. i asked the patient why they had the bridgework there, to be told that it was to reshape one of the teeth. something a child could've done with a bit of composite.
i asked the patient if they wasn't a little surprised or worried about having 8 endos all of a sudden but it was like hitting my head against the wall.

people tend to fear the dentist because they can't see what's been done and they have little or no control over it when it starts, but this patient was just enamoured by the charm of the dentist who made the patient feel that he was putting himself out to treat them within the week, that they let him tear away into anything he felt he could get done in the week.
the overtreatment was absolutely ridiculous, and God help them if and when anything fails.

Bessa

I had my four implants recovered last week and all was well. Having work done here. People are nuts to go abroad for dental work, as the pictures above have shown.

davo10

Crowns and Implant placed in Budapest, recently removed at our clinic in Ireland.