Dublin Bus route 145 :(

Cookie_Monster

that would never work.

how could you organise that with 50 people at a busy stop, who gets priority, if there are large numbers of people you ccould be waiting over an hour. 10 minutes is a long time to wait extra when a bus is there.

if fact that might be the most ridiculous suggestion I've heard in relation to public transport

foggy_lad

What would you suggest then? Have an empty bus waiting at all the stops in case 50people turn up?

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

that would never work.

how could you organise that with 50 people at a busy stop, who gets priority, if there are large numbers of people you ccould be waiting over an hour. 10 minutes is a long time to wait extra when a bus is there.

if fact that might be the most ridiculous suggestion I've heard in relation to public transport

markpb

foggy_lad wrote: »

I have thought of something that might improve the 145 situation but it would require advertising and educating the public and also a bit of effort from drivers.

Every city bus service in the world suffers from dwell time delays and most of them have managed to solve (or mitigate) this problem. There's no need for what you suggest (because it would never work). All they need to do is use two or more doors, sell tickets at bus stops, incentivise pre-paid tickets and having sufficient route & fare information to stop the passengers having to bug the driver with questions. DB have done the opposite.

I got a northbound 128 on Friday evening and it took 35 minutes to get from Suffolk St to Connolly Station at 7pm. None of this massive 1.2km journey was delayed by traffic jams, it was entirely due to dwell time delays (and Network Direct jamming lots of extra buses into the jam that is Suffolk St).

KC61

The only solution for the 145 is to redesign the bus and driver rosters that drive the public timetable.

AlekSmart

Driver input would be to refuse to take more than the 5-8 people at each stop, people may complain at the start but when there is another bus in ten minutes which they get on they have little to whinge about as the likelihood of them being passed by several full or "out of service" busses will be gone.

Foggy_Lad may have a gem of an idea here,especially if it can be woven into the Garda Public Order Unit training programme..if so then it`s a runner for sure..particularly on the N11 Student Express services after dark !!

Markpb posted.....

All they need to do is use two or more doors, sell tickets at bus stops, incentivise pre-paid tickets and having sufficient route & fare information to stop the passengers having to bug the driver with questions. DB have done the opposite.

I got a northbound 128 on Friday evening and it took 35 minutes to get from Suffolk St to Connolly Station at 7pm. None of this massive 1.2km journey was delayed by traffic jams, it was entirely due to dwell time delays (and Network Direct jamming .lots of extra buses into the jam that is Suffolk St).

Markpb hits the bullseye again here

As further elements of Network Direct come on-stream(ish) we now see very clear evidence indeed of the lack of co-ordination and co-operation between the Civic Authorities and the Public Transport providers.

There is no doubt in my mind that Suffolk Street-Church Lane is well over used by DB services now.
There is absolutely NO safety margin here,so if an accident or breakdown occurs at peak times then a significant chunk of Dublin`s Public Bus network collapses as a result.

As for the Dwell Time issue,it`s not regarded as such by DB at all.
It appears that head-office is of the opinion that a function of Bus Operation is to act as a form of dynamic Traffic Calming measure of itself.
This explains the high level of committment to introducing innovations such as the Door Brake as well as the reluctance to innovate with Card Reader positioning on high-capacity vehicles.

Whilst KC61 feels that

The only solution for the 145 is to redesign the bus and driver rosters that drive the public timetable.

I cannot agree...redesigning the rosters may be a significant part of the process but if no effort is forthcoming to get some speed back into our Bus Stop procedures then whatever time is alocated will continue to be utilized by extraneous stuff.....:(

Cookie_Monster

more shenanigans on the 145 yesterday

dazmetron wrote: »

I was getting the 145 home from Nassau st this evening and got to the bus stop at about 18.15 to see apparently all the 145's only going to Bray Dart station. After the 2nd of these appeared I decided to get on one and hopefully get on a non-relief bus in Bray as there was no mention of early terminations of the 145 according to dublinbus.ie which was being updated approximately between every 5 and 15 minutes with updates of changes due to the weather.

Got to Bray eventually and got off opposite Superquinn assuming there would be another 145 along in a while. in the space of about 15 min, two other 145's appeared both terminating at the Dart station along with several other out of service buses. I walked up the main street to McCarthy's and after a wait of 7min (bang on the estimated time according to whensmybus.ie) I got the 133 to Kilmacanogue. Throughout this wait, it appeared quite apparent that no buses were travelling further through Bray than the dart station especially looking at the number of people either looking for taxis or running to get the Finnegans bus.

Unsurprisingly, there was no further update on the bus situation for the Bray area on the dublinbus website - only in the 21.20 update are mentions made of the suspension of service on the 184/185 buses and termination of the 84 in Bray (not mentioned in the 21.00 update). IF you believe the website, the 45A is running a complete service and the 145 is only skipping the Kilarney lane loop. While I have been home for the last 90 min or so, I strongly suspect that no services have been running in the Bray area for the evening. Why then, has the website not been updated informing passengers of such information? It has been updated regularly with other route changes.

I will be emailing dublinbus in the morning but am not hopeful of a reply, let alone of an explanation as I have yet to receive one from them in any matter apart from queries in relation to network direct (sorry, network they wrecked) Part 1.

dazmetron

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

more shenanigans on the 145 yesterday

Thanks Cookie_Monster!

Wasn't sure which thread to post to but decided that it was more weather related than 145 related!

In an update to this, the website this morning was correctly updated to say the buses were only running to/from Ballywaltrim - information that appeared to be correct as opposed to yesterday morning when a few (welcome) 145's did run from Kilmacanogue contrary to the weather disruption updates.

foggy_lad

AlekSmart wrote: »

Foggy_Lad may have a gem of an idea here,especially if it can be woven into the Garda Public Order Unit training programme..if so then it`s a runner for sure..particularly on the N11 Student Express services after dark !!

(

Why would the guarda be needed at all? If drivers and inspectors were any use they could handle the crowds much like they would have done years ago.

if people get mouthy just tell them they will not be going anywhere on your bus and if they dont behave themselves no other bus will stop at any stop they are at for the evening, see how quickly the crowds attention goes from the driver to any troublemakers:)

AlekSmart

Why would the guarda be needed at all? If drivers and inspectors were any use they could handle the crowds much like they would have done years ago.

Ah Joxer...the good oul days eh...Lugs Brannigan,the Heavy Gang...God but we had a laff then did`nt we....:)

The only impediment to Foggy_Lads masterplan actually working is the rather sad (for some) fact of time,society and much else having..eh...erm...."progressed" beyond the place where a Bus Inspector of Busdriver is accepted as having any say in the operation of the service they provide......:rolleyes:

"I KNOW MY RIGHTS,YOU KNOW".......But In the spirit of cross border (Carlow/Kildare/Dublin,that is) co-operation I`m prepared to don tin-hat and puttees to give it a twirl !!!

markpb

foggy_lad wrote: »

if people get mouthy just tell them they will not be going anywhere on your bus and if they dont behave themselves no other bus will stop at any stop they are at for the evening, see how quickly the crowds attention goes from the driver to any troublemakers:)

Having been on buses where that happened, I can tell you people did _not_ direct their anger towards the offending passenger.

AlekSmart

Having been on buses where that happened, I can tell you people did _not_ direct their anger towards the offending passenger.

Ah Markpb...a visitor from the real-world...you`re most welcome here...I`d like to introduce you to my friend Foggy_Lad....say hello Foggy

foggy_lad

markpb wrote: »

Having been on buses where that happened, I can tell you people did _not_ direct their anger towards the offending passenger.

why would passengers not turn on these troublemakers who are in effect delaying their journeys? people are real asses when it comes to standing up for the rights they seem so confident to vocally assert

genie_us

Hi all

I remember a few pages ago someone mentioned that this route was going to be looked into again... does anyone know what came of it?

The service is really going downhill!! Why oh why do they provide a rail link service when 90% of the people don't need to go to a rail station?? gaaahhh

SparkyTech

genie_us wrote: »

The service is really going downhill!! Why oh why do they provide a rail link service when 90% of the people don't need to go to a rail station?? gaaahhh

I think it falls under some vauge remit of ''public transport connections''. (IE the 145 links up to the Red Luas Line and provides an intercahange feeder route in the city centre for those coming from the Hueston to other routes and visa versa)

Same idea with the (much under-expolited) 16a. Links up with important routes along its way providing connections to the airport from most areas of the city if you change buses... like the 75/15's/19's etc that it connects with along its jorney, and on O'Connel st.

DB dosn't seem to realsie the value in prioritising these routes and/or making them profitable and wothwhile, imo.

liger

genie_us wrote: »

I remember a few pages ago someone mentioned that this route was going to be looked into again... does anyone know what came of it?

Management at DB looked at it, implimented their best idea but sadly the buses still didnt turn up.....

The_Wrecker

Its a timing issue that lies with 59 and their refusal to budge over 90mins.

Most buses losing 20mins each way today.

AlekSmart

Its a timing issue that lies with 59 and their refusal to budge over 90mins.

Yes indeed,perhaps The Wrecker is corwrecked in this...;)

However,as the entirety of the Network Direct concept also needs to be recognized,anybody raising negative aspects of the Plan-to-date is advised that they really do need to "give-it-time" to settle down and for the "customers" to get used to the new arrangements.

That,from anecdotal evidence here on Boards and from speaking with other disgruntled customers,appears to be the extent of the "Follow-Up".

Genie_us asked...

The service is really going downhill!! Why oh why do they provide a rail link service when 90% of the people don't need to go to a rail station?? gaaahhh

....

Whilst SparkyTech responded.....

I think it falls under some vague remit of ''public transport connections''. (IE the 145 links up to the Red Luas Line and provides an intercahange feeder route in the city centre for those coming from the Hueston to other routes and visa versa)

A valid question,and probably best explained away by the "Vague Remit" aspect of SparkyTech`s answer.

Yes it is indeed a vague remit,but one which certain elements interpreted as enabling them to perform a feat of Black Magic unrivalled anywhere else in the Magic Circle...The replacement of a short dedicated Railhead Feeder (92) by a very long Trunk Route (145) with no conflict whatever apparent to these very highly qualified planners,administrators and supporting members of the audience.

It has been apparent from Day 1 that the concept was flawed ....nay...insane,but that has not prevented 3 Months of increasingly scarce resources being directed into crafting a silk-purse out of the sows-ear which emerged on the 17th of September.

The 145 was/is quite capable of being improved without it having to endure the ignominy of the Heuston Station leg....

The 92 (R.I.P) was/is quite capable of being imprved to allow it continue as a short duration Railhead focused stand-alone route (I still suggest UCD Belfield-Heuston Station as a viable Routing)

The essential,and as yet missing ingredient,is an acceptance that not all Bus Routes are the same...not all Routes are suitable for mergers such as we have seen here and the 92/145 were glaringly UNsuitable
for the treatment they recieved.

However after 3 solid months of twittering around and more head scratching than one would see after a primary school Nit-Alert,we are no nearer a solution other than thumping the round peg (145) ever harder with an ever larger hammer into the square hole (Heuston Station) ,in order to prove everybody else wrong.....

If the 145 simply HAD to serve a Railway Station, then Drumcondra would have been a far better location to pick !!! :eek:

Ho Ho Ho......etc etc...:)

Buddhapadge

AlekSmart wrote: »

(I still suggest UCD Belfield-Heuston Station as a viable Routing)

I have to agree. Has anyone tried getting a 145 from the Leeson Street area lately? The last few times I've been there, the buses were full and passed the stop by. I thought this was a rush hour phenomenon, until it happened to me after eleven o'clock last Thursday night. Surely a Heuston-UCD bus would alleviate the strain. Probably no chance of it happening, though.

AlekSmart

Surely a Heuston-UCD bus would alleviate the strain. Probably no chance of it happening, though.

Your`e spot on there Buddhapadge.....unless somebody can be found,who,like Ryanair`s Michael O Leary, is big enough to admit "I made a Bollicks of it".

Mr O Leary`s interview in the Indo today is worth reading..if only for an insight into the mind of a lad who has got it right most of the time...

http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/the-interview-michael-oleary-2462586.html

However the Dublin Bus business model appars to now be substantially different from any other entity...but other than stuffing each bus to the gills and leaving the excess to walk,swim,fly or just fade away,we remain in the dark ?

Buddhapadge

Don't get me started on Ryanair... I was stranded in Gatwick a few weeks ago with the snow, and they wouldn't even send a rep in to tell us we were on our own... But that's another story!

I honestly can't imagine anyone coming forward to fix the problems. Nobody seems to be listening at all, despite what seems to be a litany of complaints. It's almost like DB are running the least amount of services they can get away with.

The_Wrecker

This review is coming up this week.
New running times/driver bill TBA.
The removal of the hidden Arran quay stop.
The bypassing of Ardmore studios/Herbert rd. Up the straight.
Deleting an 84X departure so an additional bus can be added to the 145 roster.

xper

The_Wrecker wrote: »

Deleting an 84X departure so an additional bus can be added to the 145 roster.

Wonderful. Is this an outbound or inbound 84X? Since the 84 abandoned the city centre, the evening 84X's I see passing my stop have been pretty crowded, often not picking up (yes, it is a designated expresso stop). Are they seriously going to reduce its capacity by 17%.

Why the hell is a busy high frequency route cannabalising a vehicle from a busy, long distance express route? How about they return one of the withdrawn vehicles to service and generate revenue, there is clearly demand for it.

CIE

AlekSmart wrote: »

I still suggest UCD Belfield-Heuston Station as a viable Routing

Hmm...that sounds like the old route 10. Apart from the running on North Circular Road, that is. Pity that it would have been too tricky to extend from Infirmary Road to Heuston Station, what with no left turn allowed onto Parkgate Street and no two-way running on Frank Sherwin Bridge (going from the north quays via Rory O'More Bridge is a tedious way to go).

Bazzer2

CIE wrote: »

Hmm...that sounds like the old route 10. Apart from the running on North Circular Road, that is. Pity that it would have been too tricky to extend from Infirmary Road to Heuston Station, what with no left turn allowed onto Parkgate Street and no two-way running on Frank Sherwin Bridge (going from the north quays via Rory O'More Bridge is a tedious way to go).

The left turn from Infirmary Road to Parkgate Street was restored years ago. It proves very handy for the 46A drivers who lost time travelling all the way to Phoenix Park as a short-cut to get back on time at O'Connell Bridge!

Even if the 10 had been somehow extended to Heuston, would you fancy sitting on a bus for half-an-hour travelling in a huge semi-circle just to get to O'Connell Bridge? You could walk it in that time.

Amazing how the crowds at Heuston barrel onto the haphazard 145, when just around the corner on Johns Road, there's the semi-regularity of the 25A, 25B, 26, 78, 79 and 79A.

foggy_lad

I had to get the 145 the other day and noticed that some drivers leave on time but others like on the bus I got spend several minutes talking to colleagues after they drive around and pull up short of the stop at Heuston. The driver was late boarding by at least 6minutes and because of the extra passengers that showed up in that time he was even later leaving Heuston,

This meant all the stops this bus stopped at had more than the normal number of passengers due to the extra time waiting on this bus. Drivers do have to stay on the ball regarding the ten minute departures if this route is to succeed.

So how is the route now? Is there still wild delays and busses being ordered to go out of service when they are still in service?

Also just an idea but maybe routes with 8-10 minute frequencies should be made Cashless except for maybe one bus every 30-40 minutes. This would cut down on dwell times and the busses could be fitted with extra card readers at the door to speed things up even more.

CIE

Bazzer2 wrote: »

The left turn from Infirmary Road to Parkgate Street was restored years ago. It proves very handy for the 46A drivers who lost time travelling all the way to Phoenix Park as a short-cut to get back on time at O'Connell Bridge

In that case, I agree.

Bazzer2 wrote: »

Even if the 10 had been somehow extended to Heuston, would you fancy sitting on a bus for half-an-hour travelling in a huge semi-circle just to get to O'Connell Bridge? You could walk it in that time

Why does a bus have to run at an average speed of 6.5 miles per hour along the North Circular Road nowadays...? (unless you're talking about riding from UCD Belfield and not the city centre?)

Besides, I wasn't really advancing the notion as a practical idea per se; merely as food for thought.

Bazzer2 wrote: »

Amazing how the crowds at Heuston barrel onto the haphazard 145, when just around the corner on Johns Road, there's the semi-regularity of the 25A, 25B, 26, 78, 79 and 79A.

Unfamiliarity? If the crowds are informed that the 92 has been replaced with the 145, that's the one they're going to look for. There's also the matter of the 145 serving St. Stephen's Green and all. Back in the old days for me, the bus routes you were looking for were the 24, 68, 69 and 79.

And why weren't the 25A and 25B given new numbers? They have no relation to the 25. Route numbers 21, 22, 23 and 24 are currently disused...

BenShermin

foggy_lad wrote: »

I had to get the 145 the other day and noticed that some drivers leave on time but others like on the bus I got spend several minutes talking to colleagues after they drive around and pull up short of the stop at Heuston. The driver was late boarding by at least 6minutes and because of the extra passengers that showed up in that time he was even later leaving Heuston,

This meant all the stops this bus stopped at had more than the normal number of passengers due to the extra time waiting on this bus. Drivers do have to stay on the ball regarding the ten minute departures if this route is to succeed.

Would this not have anything to do with the fact that due to short running times for the route, he arrived to Heuston late for his break subsequently delaying the return leg of his journey for the break he's entitled to??

On the routes I use that have not fallen victim to network they ruined, drivers are still able to have their fag and coffee break at the terminus and still get the buses out on time.

foggy_lad wrote: »

Also just an idea but maybe routes with 8-10 minute frequencies should be made Cashless except for maybe one bus every 30-40 minutes. This would cut down on dwell times and the busses could be fitted with extra card readers at the door to speed things up even more.

And deteriorate the service even more for people like me who cannot use prepaid tickets without being ripped off? The majority of people on or under the €1.85 fare bracket gain nothing by switching to prepaid tickets.

This attitude of blaming the drivers or customers for not being efficent enough will get us nowhere. It's clearly a management problem!

Alun

The_Wrecker wrote: »

The bypassing of Ardmore studios/Herbert rd. Up the straight.

Bugger, that means I'll have an extra 10 minute walk to the nearest stop

Bazzer2

CIE wrote: »

In that case, I agree.Why does a bus have to run at an average speed of 6.5 miles per hour along the North Circular Road nowadays...? (unless you're talking about riding from UCD Belfield and not the city centre?)

Besides, I wasn't really advancing the notion as a practical idea per se; merely as food for thought.Unfamiliarity? If the crowds are informed that the 92 has been replaced with the 145, that's the one they're going to look for. There's also the matter of the 145 serving St. Stephen's Green and all. Back in the old days for me, the bus routes you were looking for were the 24, 68, 69 and 79.

And why weren't the 25A and 25B given new numbers? They have no relation to the 25. Route numbers 21, 22, 23 and 24 are currently disused...

I can see from your reminiscence that you haven't been in Dublin for a while. Half an hour from Infirmary Road to O'Connell Bridge is pretty much par for the course.

In addition to the 145, routes 25A, 25B (and 26 being very close by) also serve St. Stephen's Green.

AlekSmart

BenShermin wrote: »

This attitude of blaming the drivers or customers for not being efficent enough will get us nowhere. It's clearly a management problem!

Ah come on now Ben....this is what Foggy_Lads do when up in Dublin...like heat seeking missiles they seek-out and attempt to destroy Bus & Coach Drivers wherever they may attempt to hide !

Foggy_Lad : I had to get the 145 the other day and noticed that some drivers leave on time but others like on the bus I got spend several minutes talking to colleagues after they drive around and pull up short of the stop at Heuston. The driver was late boarding by at least 6minutes and because of the extra passengers that showed up in that time he was even later leaving Heuston,

Not 5...not 10....but SIX....I admire accuracy in all things :rolleyes:

Mind you perhaps DB Management hired in Foggy-Lad to do the promised review of the Lucan Corridor ND changes....where it seems a team of "Experienced Inspectors" have found the ND to be more than catering for the public transport needs of the area.....well,either they used Foggy or Lord Nelson`s bad eye to to the surveying !!!!

In a nutshell It appears that DB have found no substance to any of the negativity spoken about on these Boards,it`s all in yer imagination