Dublin Bus route 145 :(

genie_us

Oh how I miss the 92 - first week of getting to Heuston on the 145 in the evenings has not been going too well - anyone else in the same boat?

foggy_lad

I saw the 145 pulling up at Heuston a couple of times and it was absolutely packed. I pity anyone that tried to get on after this bus fills up. People on the bus were on their way home from work but looked so miserable and uncomfortable.

liger

genie_us wrote: »

Oh how I miss the 92 - first week of getting to Heuston on the 145 in the evenings has not been going too well - anyone else in the same boat?

What do you mean??? is it not turning up? bus full when it gets to your stop? rude drivers??

niamhas

I've had the misfortune of trying to get this bus every evening as I work near Heuston Station. It has been a disaster all week but last evening was by far the worst. I arrived at the station at 6.20pm, and eventually boarded a bus at 7.00pm. During that time three buses pulled into the station - 2 went out of service and one turned into a 46E - I'm not sure but i didn't think the 46E served heuston!

Anyway, there was a Dublin Bus rep there and myself and another lady complained to him about the appalling service and he kept telling us that the bus is not advertised as leaving Heuston every 10 minutes but it leaves Kilmac every 10 minutes and then will encounter traffic on its way and be delayed - i've checked the website and it is advertised as leaving Heuston every 10 minutes from 6.50am to 9.00 pm.

When I eventually got on a bus at 7.00, we passed another 145 bus at collecting passengers at Trinity College - this bus had not passed us previously so I can only assume that it did not begin it's route at Heuston as I had been waiting there for 40 mins (I hope it did not take this bus 40 mins to get from Heuston to Trinity).

I can accept teething problems but this is ridiculous - and I pity any tourists who arrive at Heuston to be greeted by signs advertising a bus service every 10 minutes!!

Cookie_Monster

niamhas wrote: »

I've had the misfortune of trying to get this bus every evening as I work near Heuston Station. It has been a disaster all week but last evening was by far the worst. I arrived at the station at 6.20pm, and eventually boarded a bus at 7.00pm. During that time three buses pulled into the station - 2 went out of service and one turned into a 46E - I'm not sure but i didn't think the 46E served heuston!

Anyway, there was a Dublin Bus rep there and myself and another lady complained to him about the appalling service and he kept telling us that the bus is not advertised as leaving Heuston every 10 minutes but it leaves Kilmac every 10 minutes and then will encounter traffic on its way and be delayed - i've checked the website and it is advertised as leaving Heuston every 10 minutes from 6.50am to 9.00 pm.

When I eventually got on a bus at 7.00, we passed another 145 bus at collecting passengers at Trinity College - this bus had not passed us previously so I can only assume that it did not begin it's route at Heuston as I had been waiting there for 40 mins (I hope it did not take this bus 40 mins to get from Heuston to Trinity).

46e is a general running of the 46a from x to y, usually CC to Belfield as relief (as well as a normal service)

That rep was outa line, and that is a stupid claim to make on his behalf. How their own reps can't even understand the timetable is beyond me. I'd complain about him being entirely unhelpful.

In regards to the one at Trinity I've little doubt it was one of the ones that went out of service, in order to get down the quays quickly or similar, happens frequently inbound on 145 and 45. This whole week of ND v1 has been an abysmal disaster

foggy_lad

definitely says every 10 minutes on the timetable but maybe drivers and other staff are reading this differently?

http://www.dublinbus.ie/en/Your-Journey1/Timetables/All-Timetables/145--/

Cookie_Monster

foggy_lad wrote: »

definitely says every 10 minutes on the timetable but maybe drivers and other staff are reading this differently?

http://www.dublinbus.ie/en/Your-Journey1/Timetables/All-Timetables/145--/

timetable wrote:

then every 10 minutes

I wonder how that can be read differently :pac::pac::pac:

thomasj

Like I said previously, brings me back to 39 cityswift days. Never kept to it's timetable.

The every x minutes debacle does not work this week has showing it. I'm just surprised they didn't include the word about. Full timetables services all the Way!

niamhas

I've already complained to DB this week about this appaling service, surprise surprise I have received no reponse. That rep is a joke, he's been at heuston every evening this week - and once he starts receiving complaints he high tails it away from the stop and is all of a sudden very busy on his walky talky thing!! He also told us at one point yesterday (after I'd asked him to radio to find out were there any buses on the way) that there was a bus on it's way down the quays and would be there shortly - it arrived 20 minutes later - i've walked the length of the quays many times - it barely takes that long!!!

I also get this bus every morning from under the Loughlinstown flyover and the amount of buses passing by that stop all the way along the N11, while i'd say 20-30 people are waiting at the stops for buses is unbelievable - I really can't understand it as this was not a problem last week and the buses are now supposedly running at a higher frequency.

honru

niamhas wrote: »

When I eventually got on a bus at 7.00, we passed another 145 bus at collecting passengers at Trinity College - this bus had not passed us previously so I can only assume that it did not begin it's route at Heuston as I had been waiting there for 40 mins (I hope it did not take this bus 40 mins to get from Heuston to Trinity).

I and a lot of other passengers were waiting ages for a 46A or 145 to show up on D'Olier Street, around that time yesterday with that fierce rain. Eventually an Out of Service bus turned up, and began service as a 145.

I don't know what happened yesterday, the 46A seemed to be completely non-existent around that time. A poster on the Network Review thread said there was a car crash in the city centre yesterday evening, so it could have been down to that.

foggy_lad

it is down to dublin bus trying to work with one or two less busses than they actually need for this route! they have not taken traffic into account so when a bus is slightly delayed they will sacrifice all the stops between the city centre and heuston because they are taking lessons from irish rail about how to suit themselves and their staff rather than look after their bread and butter pasengers!

SickCert

f®eak s©enery wrote: »

I and a lot of other passengers were waiting ages for a 46A or 145 to show up on D'Olier Street, around that time yesterday with that fierce rain. Eventually an Out of Service bus turned up, and began service as a 145.

I don't know what happened yesterday, the 46A seemed to be completely non-existent around that time. A poster on the Network Review thread said there was a car crash in the city centre yesterday evening, so it could have been down to that.

You really need to complain to the manager in Donnybrook 7034404/39.
They think giving us extra capacity tri-axle deckers next week will solve the issues. They have to be driven with a tad more care, carry more ~ so more stop dwelling time. More time unloading time etc.

The 46E should be the Mountjoy service, also a Belfield short southbound.

I drive the 145s and the Heuston service does have potential, but are bigger buses the answer? More running time is also required to deliver a constant service allowing for horrendous traffic in Bray and the Quays.

devnull

SickCert wrote: »

You really need to complain to the manager in Donnybrook 7034404/39.
They think giving us extra capacity tri-axle deckers next week will solve the issues. They have to be driven with a tad more care, carry more ~ so more stop dwelling time. More time unloading time etc.

The 46E should be the Mountjoy service, also a Belfield short southbound.

I drive the 145s and the Heuston service does have potential, but are bigger buses the answer? More running time is also required to deliver a constant service allowing for horrendous traffic in Bray and the Quays.

And these are the same tri-axle deckers that are operating on the Blanch Corridor to deal with overcrowding there and they are now coming to the 145 in exchange for some normal size buses?

So it's not really a fix of the problem is it, more of a moving it elsewhere, and no doubt the same problems will happen when the Blanch routes are dealt with very soon with reduced journey times etc and we'll be back to square one, unless they do something sensible like use some of the artics not being used right now on the blanch routes at peak times to cover for the moving VT's.

The more I see of this network direct plan and what is happening the more I think the bendy buses have a role to play.

thomasj

Vts used on the 10 will probably be used for the 39a with less needed for the 39

foggy_lad

the bendy busses would be ok but with routes where there is a large throughput of passengers along the route there should be centre doors operated by prepaid ticket only allowing passengers bypass the driver thus saving dwell time at stops.

and if passengers are not ready with their change when they step onto the bus they should be turned away immediately and told get to the back of the que and have your cash ready when you get on the bus again or you wont be allowed travel!

i was on a few dublin busses earlier in the week and the number of passengers that stood in front of the driver preventing people with passes and prepaid tickets entering while they stupidly rooted around in a bag for the exact change was ridiculous and needs to be addressed by dublin bus, passengers must be shocked into having their change ready before the bus arrives or be left behind! this would speed up boarding and greatly improve all services.

SickCert

devnull wrote: »

And these are the same tri-axle deckers that are operating on the Blanch Corridor to deal with overcrowding there and they are now coming to the 145 in exchange for some normal size buses?

So it's not really a fix of the problem is it, more of a moving it elsewhere, and no doubt the same problems will happen when the Blanch routes are dealt with very soon with reduced journey times etc and we'll be back to square one, unless they do something sensible like use some of the artics not being used right now on the blanch routes at peak times to cover for the moving VT's.

The more I see of this network direct plan and what is happening the more I think the bendy buses have a role to play.

Far from a fix, a tri-axle needs more running time compared to the AX type deckers heading to Phibs over the weekend. We need the manager who reads boards.ie to take it in.
The bendys are for sale and were too slow anyway since the health and safety rule on back doors.

SickCert

For anyone who struggled to get home tonight!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRs8ZSszvRU

devnull

SickCert wrote: »

Far from a fix, a tri-axle needs more running time compared to the AX type deckers heading to Phibs over the weekend. We need the manager who reads boards.ie to take it in.

Pretty much how I thought. Really though, this is partly related to Dublin Bus fare collection policies and the lack of centre doors meaning we have one huge vehicle with a narrow throat that everyone needs to get in and out of the same part of.

I think there needs to be a rethink on the way these timetables and running times are composed, as it clearly is not working, as stated previously and by yourself, I don't honestly believe this swap is a proper fix to the solution, no doubt as the changing of timetables and diagrams and duties may involve someone admitting they are wrong, when everyone out of DB I have spoke to this week about the changes seems to think everything is going well!

The bendys are for sale and were too slow anyway since the health and safety rule on back doors.

Whilst they may be for sale, selling them and withdrawing them from the 4 with the current timetables being in such a state and the en-mass overcrowding that was present before the changes with 100+ on every bus, and is now even worse if that was possible would be plain suicide.

Was just looking at it from the perspective of someone who gets the 4's, time has shown in the past couple of years the days when there are more AW's on the overcrowding and unreliability of this service has been far less than when they have operated mostly double decks during peak Mon-Fri.

With regards to the doors, what exactly is the rule? Reason asking as due to the increase in numbers caused by the cuts, the back doors are being used a lot more often this week to let passengers off on this rout but no doubt by posting this they will now get their knuckles wrapped.

AlekSmart

Devnull posted....

Was just looking at it from the perspective of someone who gets the 4's, time has shown in the past couple of years the days when there are more AW's on the overcrowding and unreliability of this service has been far less than when they have operated mostly double decks during peak Mon-Fri.

Quite true.

The reality of the situation is that Articulated Buses of 18 Metres in length used on any City Bus service demand a totally different infrastructure than an ordinary vehicle.

However,Dublin as a City totally failed to apply any such thinking to our Artic fleet which left the 20 of them floating about like the Hesperous for the want of a route to operate on.

The 4 represented probably the best Route we have for Artic operation and still does in my opinion.

I`d go further and point a wavering finger at the several hundred Mercedes Citaro artics now sitting in storage around London subsequent to their withdrawal over there.....I`ll bet a reasonable offer would get Dublin another 20 well maintained high capacity vehicles for our new direct routes.....:)

From a Drivers perspective the Safe Operation of Artics requires primarily SPACE....dedicated SPACE,free from parked up SUV`s and School Run Johnnies who`ve just nipped in for a paper.

If the great people -shifting capabilities of Artics are to be fully realized then they MUST be operated on a cash-free basis...FULLY Cash Free...Passes + Pre-Paid tickets only missus....:rolleyes:

I`d repaint them a garish hue and make the 4 our first CASH-FREE route...If the Citaro`s were utilized I`d do as London did and have multi-door boarding also !(Subject to Kerb Space availability )

The absolute fiasco of the last week proves beyond doubt that "we" as in Dublin Bus really need to get to grips with the basics of what we are doing.

Massive investment in Electronic stuff and Hi-Techery is all very well and good if its result is quantifiable improvement in service levels and quality...I`d venture to suggest that right now,simply ensuring the presence of a correctly placed steel-pole with a Bus sign atop would be of far greater benefit than a million CCTV`s and AVLS`s put together.

I`d also recommend that Boardsters who use the N11 QBC take a moment to actually look at the inbound Stillorgan Village stop now....this location just screams out loud about where we went astray....resembling an abandoned gypsy encampment with a bare black steel skeleton of a Shelter with only litter and the ever present whiff of bodily fluids to attract new customers out of their BMW`s...Information,such as it is,is contained on a decrepit carousel attached to a topless old blue Bus Pole hidden amongst the undergrowth,of which there is plenty.....

Even the proposed introduction of VT tri-axles onto the 145 route displays worrying signs of somebody not actually having driven one of these,well concieved but poorly specified,vehicles along the route.....I`d be keen to observe one making a safe outbound transit of Kilarney Lane turning onto Herbert Road in anything other than ideal conditions.

Added also to the VT issue is the somewhat less than efficient combination of our lagest seating capacity vehicle having the narrowest and slowest operating Door setup especially when the Door Brake (:mad:) is taken into account.

It appears that there is a significant amount of highly placed persons who view full-to-bursting buses as evidence of success.

I`d suspect these fellows may have accountancy backgrounds as most operationally minded Bus people would see persistently full buses as evidence that something has gone badly wrong.....;)

If we meaningfully addressed the issues surrounding our woefully extended Bus Stop Dwell times then we would at-a-stroke ensure a much improved service,at little cost.

However,in the absence of any indication of such thinking I reckon I`ll give a big + 1 to SickCert for this pithy observation.....

.Far from a fix, a tri-axle needs more running time compared to the AX type deckers heading to Phibs over the weekend. We need the manager who reads boards.ie to take it in.

SickCert

He does view these boards, i spoke to him today. Yet i was speaking to the blind monkey who sees little ~ last week he was the deaf monkey who heard little. Next week?:eek:

Baron de Robeck

At 17.40 this evening three 145's went down Aston Quay to Heuston together (bumper to bumper). First one overloaded with passengers standing up to the cab, second one half full and the third a quarter full.

foggy_lad

Baron de Robeck wrote: »

At 17.40 this evening three 145's went down Aston Quay to Heuston together (bumper to bumper). First one overloaded with passengers standing up to the cab, second one half full and the third a quarter full.

great service! is this caused by drivers going too fast trying to speed up so they can finish earlier or is it poor schedules or just the traffic?

ronn

SickCert wrote: »

You really need to complain to the manager in Donnybrook 7034404/39.
They think giving us extra capacity tri-axle deckers next week will solve the issues. They have to be driven with a tad more care, carry more ~ so more stop dwelling time. More time unloading time etc.

The 46E should be the Mountjoy service, also a Belfield short southbound.

I drive the 145s and the Heuston service does have potential, but are bigger buses the answer? More running time is also required to deliver a constant service allowing for horrendous traffic in Bray and the Quays.

The manager in any Dublin bus Deopt has nothing to do with the new timetable/routes, The National Transport Attority has been brought in to stop db and other companies doing what they want when they want,,
ie. the NTA tell db it take 1hr 30mins to get from hueston to kilmac, db say no it takes 1hr 40mins. NTA say tough thats all your getting.
The NTA done the time table/ cuts for the no.7, db said it wont work that they would needed more buses nta said that db would have to wait a year and get back to them,
So complain to the NTA

foggy_lad

ronn wrote: »

The manager in any Dublin bus Deopt has nothing to do with the new timetable/routes, The National Transport Attority has been brought in to stop db and other companies doing what they want when they want,,
ie. the NTA tell db it take 1hr 30mins to get from hueston to kilmac, db say no it takes 1hr 40mins. NTA say tough thats all your getting.
The NTA done the time table/ cuts for the no.7, db said it wont work that they would needed more buses nta said that db would have to wait a year and get back to them,
So complain to the NTA

sounds like the issues could be an unofficial work to rule by staff that dont like having the running time cut back eating into extended breaks?

AlekSmart

Sounds like the issues could be an unofficial work to rule by staff that dont like having the running time cut back eating into extended breaks?

Eating soup with a fork time again Foggy_Lad

Whatever it sounds like to you is probably exactly what it is so...especially as it`s a CIE ( :eek: ) group company we`re dealing with here.

However there are other`s of a more open minded disposition who are regular 145 route passengers and can testify to the sheer magnificence of a managerial setup,whether NTA or DB,which can take a hugely popular,relatively youthful route and quite literally reduce it to a dysfunctional shambles in the space of a single (5 Day) week.without any assistance from the Drivers !

If anything deserves a performance bonus,this does,as it took superhuman effort and dedication...or perhaps not :rolleyes:

There is little point in me addressing the content of your last post as I fear you have the issue already put-to-bed,however,for the benefit or otherwise of the other posters,particularly 145 regular passengers it is worth pointing out that as yet we have no official confirmation that the NTA is actually at the wheel of this wildly careering vehicle.

I`m somewhat suspicious of this silence as usually shiny,new,improved entities such as the NTA are only too enthusiastic to put themselves out there fighting the good fight (a la Foggy_Lad) against the malignant evil of the State Owned Transport Providers.

Just take a look at the Taxi Regulator...or the Financial Regulator...(Erm...well the new one anyway..:o) or the Energy Regulator...all ever ready to get shaking their booty on the media...whilst the NTA remains schtum....strange behaviour in my humble opinion...which leads me to hold off pointing a quivering finger in their direction as yet.

Mind you I`f I were ronn or indeed Foggy_Lad I`d be none too hopeful of the NTA`s complaints mechanism being any better than those being (well) utilized at present.....:cool:

antoinolachtnai

ronn wrote: »

The manager in any Dublin bus Deopt has nothing to do with the new timetable/routes, The National Transport Attority has been brought in to stop db and other companies doing what they want when they want,,
ie. the NTA tell db it take 1hr 30mins to get from hueston to kilmac, db say no it takes 1hr 40mins. NTA say tough thats all your getting.
The NTA done the time table/ cuts for the no.7, db said it wont work that they would needed more buses nta said that db would have to wait a year and get back to them,
So complain to the NTA

These are DB's timetables, not the NTA's. DB has made it clear that it is happy with the new timetables. It cannot now credibly repudiate them and blame the problems on someone else.

foggy_lad

AlekSmart wrote: »

Eating soup with a fork time again Foggy_Lad

Whatever it sounds like to you is probably exactly what it is so...especially as it`s a CIE ( :eek: ) group company we`re dealing with here.

and their record speaks for itself

However there are other`s of a more open minded disposition who are regular 145 route passengers and can testify to the sheer magnificence of a managerial setup,whether NTA or DB,which can take a hugely popular,relatively youthful route and quite literally reduce it to a dysfunctional shambles in the space of a single (5 Day) week.without any assistance from the Drivers !

my point is the managers whoever they may be have it all on paper and would always seek to cut back on running time as much as possible which is resisted at every turn by drivers whose only real options are all out strike which they would not have a mandate for or some form of unspoken onofficial work to rule where they might spend longer at stops or make sure the bus is the correct distance from the kerb before opening the doors to imaginary faults reported etc etc.

If anything deserves a performance bonus,this does,as it took superhuman effort and dedication..

i completly agree, organising bus routes and timetables is possibly the hardest job in the world!

There is little point in me addressing the content of your last post as I fear you have the issue already put-to-bed,however,for the benefit or otherwise of the other posters,particularly 145 regular passengers it is worth pointing out that as yet we have no official confirmation that the NTA is actually at the wheel of this wildly careering vehicle.

I`m somewhat suspicious of this silence as usually shiny,new,improved entities such as the NTA are only too enthusiastic to put themselves out there fighting the good fight (a la Foggy_Lad) against the malignant evil of the State Owned Transport Providers.

i am waiting to hear about busses arriving to schedule so this is not yet put to bed by me.

Just take a look at the Taxi Regulator...or the Financial Regulator...(Erm...well the new one anyway..:o) or the Energy Regulator...all ever ready to get shaking their booty on the media...whilst the NTA remains schtum....strange behaviour in my humble opinion...which leads me to hold off pointing a quivering finger in their direction as yet.

Mind you I`f I were ronn or indeed Foggy_Lad I`d be none too hopeful of the NTA`s complaints mechanism being any better than those being (well) utilized at present.....:cool:

i dont care who organises the busses as long as they do what it says on the timetable

AlekSmart

These are DB's timetables, not the NTA's. DB has made it clear that it is happy with the new timetables.

Indeed Antoin,but most certainly not their Drivers..:)

Today`s situation on the 145 is still ongoing,but up until 20.30 drivers were still finishing their duties 20 minutes late.

This,on the 145 is unusual,but on a Saturday,is perhaps indicative of something being not quite right..?

Nobody in authority saw fit to actually take a close look at what the New ! Improved !! 145 was being asked to do.

Their is a world of difference between operating on a high frequency trunk route,with most of it`s customers regular users and possessing of passes or ready sorted cash and then operating the same route from Heuston Station where huge numbers of totally unfamiliar provincials who will happily wave €50 Notes and a host of totally invalid Rail-Only tickets with many having absolutely no idea of where they are going except a belief that the driver is there to offer a Free Consultation and Counselling service....He/She may well be all of those...but only at the expense of whatever tenuous grip the Timetable had over the route.

It is not working...it cannot work as currently structured,but admitting that is not an option for senior people who are highly politically sensitive.

The most important short-term fix IMO,is to accept that the Heuston Station-City Centre element is somewhat deserving of a stand-alone service a la the 92(:rolleyes:) which might just allow for some realistic treatment of the rest of the 145 route...Failure to appreciate this distinction runs a very high risk of alienating and losing regular patrons of the 145...but then again,perhaps in the new post Deloitte era,they are expendable ?

foggy_lad

AlekSmart wrote: »

Indeed Antoin,but most certainly not their Drivers..:)

Today`s situation on the 145 is still ongoing,but up until 20.30 drivers were still finishing their duties 20 minutes late.

This,on the 145 is unusual,but on a Saturday,is perhaps indicative of something being not quite right..?

<snip>

It is not working...it cannot work as currently structured,but admitting that is not an option for senior people who are highly politically sensitive.

The most important short-term fix IMO,is to accept that the Heuston Station-City Centre element is somewhat deserving of a stand-alone service a la the 92(:rolleyes:) which might just allow for some realistic treatment of the rest of the 145 route...Failure to appreciate this distinction runs a very high risk of alienating and losing regular patrons of the 145...but then again,perhaps in the new post Deloitte era,they are expendable ?

sounds more and more like drivers trying to sabotage the service because they want a seperate heuston-city centre service as was th case before, some drivers are really allergic to change but need to be rooted out or forced into compliance.

blaming the passengers is not the way to go as most passengers on the route are commuters who know to have the right tickets or change, there is something not right with drivers continually finishing 20minutes late but imo it is down to the drivers and some unofficial action over something they maybe were not consulted over or a shorter unofficial break extension etc and not the route.

saying it is not working and it can not work seems to be done with some knowledge from the coalface that this will never work in its present form but management would not have started the route if there was such an anomoly and such a massive discrepency in times throughout the day! on this you might expect 20minutes at peak hours but all day especially a saturday it is unlikely but still happening?

SickCert

foggy_lad wrote: »

sounds more and more like drivers trying to sabotage the service because they want a seperate heuston-city centre service as was th case before, some drivers are really allergic to change but need to be rooted out or forced into compliance.

blaming the passengers is not the way to go as most passengers on the route are commuters who know to have the right tickets or change, there is something not right with drivers continually finishing 20minutes late but imo it is down to the drivers and some unofficial action over something they maybe were not consulted over or a shorter unofficial break extension etc and not the route.

saying it is not working and it can not work seems to be done with some knowledge from the coalface that this will never work in its present form but management would not have started the route if there was such an anomoly and such a massive discrepency in times throughout the day! on this you might expect 20minutes at peak hours but all day especially a saturday it is unlikely but still happening?

I have to say the running time with boosted numbers isnt allowing it to work. Example we have 40mins going special to Kilmac from Donnybrook, then 45 working back in to hand over compared to the 60 mins previous. I was delayed yesterday by three girls going to the Stillorgan park hotel, fresh from the train and not a clue about the services or €20 euro notes in cash fare boxes.

AlekSmart

Blaming the passengers is not the way to go as most passengers on the route are commuters who know to have the right tickets or change, there is something not right with drivers continually finishing 20minutes latebut imo it is down to the drivers and some unofficial action over something they maybe were not consulted over or a shorter unofficial break extension etc and not the route.

OK,it really does need to be said in some manner that most posters will understand:

THERE IS NO INDUSTRIAL ACTION INVOLVED IN THE CURRENT PHASE 1 NETWORK DIRECT SITUATION.


That is about as clear as I can make it.

If Foggy_Lad has an opinion to the contrary,he is fully entitled to hold it,but he could also be expected to accept some opinion from those on-the-ground,both passengers and staff.

If he does`nt,then fair enough,but I can`t state it clearer.

Mind you,if this was the result of industrial action,it would be a hugely successful application of it as I have never before seen such a comprehensive collapse of a pre-existing functional service.

As for Goggy_Lad`s insinuation that I was blaming the passengers,nothing could be further from the truth.

I am outlining FACT.

The FACT is that any major interchange which sees large groups of unfamiliar or unprepared passengers arriving together requires a fundementally different operational approach than a day to day ordinary location on a Bus route.

Management would not have started the route if there was such an anomoly

Foggy_Lad has in fact quite correctly identified the main causitive element in this fiasco,a decision taken at the highest levels to implement a major public bus service alteration in advance of the preparitory infrastructure being put in place.

That is most definitely an anomaly,but it did not prevent management from pressing ahead despite all too obvious indications of the eventual outcome.

I would be somewhat sceptical of Foggy_Lads intimate knowledge of what DB management would or would not do as a great many involved remain mystified as to the same issue.

foggy_lad

SickCert wrote: »

I have to say the running time with boosted numbers isnt allowing it to work. Example we have 40mins going special to Kilmac from Donnybrook, then 45 working back in to hand over compared to the 60 mins previous. I was delayed yesterday by three girls going to the Stillorgan park hotel, fresh from the train and not a clue about the services or €20 euro notes in cash fare boxes.

you just tell them it is exact fare only and you dont take notes then put them off the bus and continue your journey, simples. bus drivers are not there to hold passengers hands they are doing a very important job in the general scheme and should not be delayed by people that aree half asleep or who have not informed themselves of what they will need going out in the big bad world.

foggy_lad

AlekSmart wrote: »

OK,it really does need to be said in some manner that most posters will understand:

THERE IS NO INDUSTRIAL ACTION INVOLVED IN THE CURRENT PHASE 1 NETWORK DIRECT SITUATION.


That is about as clear as I can make it.

If Foggy_Lad has an opinion to the contrary,he is fully entitled to hold it,but he could also be expected to accept some opinion from those on-the-ground,both passengers and staff.

If he does`nt,then fair enough,but I can`t state it clearer.

Mind you,if this was the result of industrial action,it would be a hugely successful application of it as I have never before seen such a comprehensive collapse of a pre-existing functional service.

As for Goggy_Lad`s insinuation that I was blaming the passengers,nothing could be further from the truth.

I am outlining FACT.

The FACT is that any major interchange which sees large groups of unfamiliar or unprepared passengers arriving together requires a fundementally different operational approach than a day to day ordinary location on a Bus route.



Foggy_Lad has in fact quite correctly identified the main causitive element in this fiasco,a decision taken at the highest levels to implement a major public bus service alteration in advance of the preparitory infrastructure being put in place.

That is most definitely an anomaly,but it did not prevent management from pressing ahead despite all too obvious indications of the eventual outcome.

I would be somewhat sceptical of Foggy_Lads intimate knowledge of what DB management would or would not do as a great many involved remain mystified as to the same issue.

there is NO official industrial action but what i am referring to is a general lack of co-operation from drivers who do not agree with the management or who want it their own way or might even be as simple as a driver being told by a manager to get out and drive his route or face disciplinary action,

it is clear that drivers from day one did not want this change and the elimination of their much loved 92 route and in my opinion they are not helping to make this new 145 route a success

mickydoomsux

foggy_lad wrote: »

you just tell them it is exact fare only and you dont take notes then put them off the bus and continue your journey, simples. bus drivers are not there to hold passengers hands they are doing a very important job in the general scheme and should not be delayed by people that aree half asleep or who have not informed themselves of what they will need going out in the big bad world.

Heh. If they did that then you'd be the first person on here posting about how unreasonable and ignorant that they are.

foggy_lad

mickydoomsux wrote: »

Heh. If they did that then you'd be the first person on here posting about how unreasonable and ignorant that they are.

no i would not!

i would encourage less hand holding by dublin bus staff in particular.

passengers should know it is exact fare only and tourists need to remember that along with saints and scholars there are rules and exact fares much like most of them have at home! if they want directions to drogheeeda or wherever they should go to the tourist office instead of delaying a bus driver!

loyatemu

why not have Heuston as a "no cash fares" stop and have someone at the station selling tickets (from the Nitelink ticket bus) - its a sufficiently busy location to warrant special treatment.

trellheim

is the 92 gone now ?

If you google dublin bus route 145 as 99% of people would, you get

145. Buses from/to. Mountjoy Square / Parnell Square West to Kilmacanogue ... Route Variations v Via Bray DART Station p From Parnell Square ...

the webmaster is asleep at the wheel again 5 days since route change and he can't be arsed to leave a redirect, since if you click on the link you get a browser error , very nearly a disciplinary offence if you do it once in my job, definitely an interview without coffee if you do it twice.

So without telling anyone we now have a hi frequency service leaving Heuston. ( this board here remains a fabulous place for info but that's all )

Heuston is automatically a place where people arrive who are unfamiliar with DB's idiosyncracies and so yes they will proffer €50 and get a nasty shock when no change is arriving.

Cool Mo D

loyatemu wrote: »

why not have Heuston as a "no cash fares" stop and have someone at the station selling tickets (from the Nitelink ticket bus) - its a sufficiently busy location to warrant special treatment.

Do as they do at the airport and have a machine selling 1-journey 90 minute tickets, and day tickets, and proper information at the bus stop.

Running the 92 and the 145 separately may be handy for Dublin bus, but being able to go direct from Heuston out further than the city centre is much better than the 92 for passengers.

KD345

Foggy Lad, I'm not quite sure where your claim of drivers being difficult is coming from. If a bus driver is identifying problems along their route then they are more than entitled to point them out. Unless you can provide specific incidents of drivers being uncooperative then I feel your comments are out of line considering there are bus drivers posting here. The reports from Alek and Sickcert would suggest they are doing all they can to make the transition from the 92 to 145 as smooth as possible by helping customers with queries. In a few posts you have gone from criticizing drivers from not being cooperative to criticizing them for helping customers too much. It reads like you have a problem with bus drivers in general. Perhaps you have reasons for this, but if you're complaining just for the sake of it then it's unhelpful.

This week hasn't gone as smoothly as we all would have liked but its still early days and hopefully the problems will get sorted. The 145 to Heuston has great potential and opens up the network greatly. I know of some old 145 passengers who are quite happy with the extension.

We will soon have the 25/a 26, 66/a/b and 67 also traveling from Leeson Street serving Parkgate Street which will take some pressure off the 145, and there is rumors of the 7 terminating at Heuston and the 79 merging with the 27B all of which will make Heuston more accessible.

AlekSmart

KD345 posted....

The 145 to Heuston has great potential and opens up the network greatly. I know of some old 145 passengers who are quite happy with the extension.

Absolutely a big +100% to that.

The rerouting is not at issue at all.

I believe it`s a fantastic element and long overdue,if only to remove a route from the wildly over bussed O Connell St.

However,I was speechless today at the amount of cranky spite-laden complaints I recieved when turning left onto Aston Quay....In spite of a big electronic "Heuston Station via City Centre" on the front and a PA announcement on Westmoreland St I still got a verbal handbagging from all and sundry who wanted to get out at Pennys...:rolleyes:

It`s worth also pointing out,in the light of Foggy_Lads strongly held belief that we Drivers are somehow pursuing a secret campaign of disobidiance,that the "new" element of the 145 route still remains notably bereft of signage to notify intending passengers and staff of which stops are actually served by the route.

This morning (Sun 26th,T+ 1 Week) we were advised via Central Control that Westmoreland Street was no longer a stop and instead the 145 now uses the 1st Stop on Aston Quay (Which does have signage).

After that the only indicator of specific stops is from the Ticket Machine display which shows 2 stage points at Capel St Bridge (76) and Mellows Bridge (77) before the terminus at Heuston (78).

The general suspicion is that the 145 is expected to utilize the route 90 stops along the quays,however since these are not particularly well marked it can prove a very distacting process indeed.

It`s also worth pointing out 145 pasengers can now purchase a surban Arrow rail onward ticket as for jouneys as far as Hazelhatch from the Busdriver...now that is progress !

Heuston Station itself is,well....largely bereft of appropriate Bus Route indicators on the Bus Stops themselves,which is leaving a lot of people in a confused state...one lad today,told me he had let 3 145`s go before he noticed the Via City Centre on the destination....:rolleyes:

The return journey along the North Quays is equally fraught with Bus Stop moments and the need to position early into the right hand lane on Batchelors Walk can be fraught.

A rather basic prioritized Bus Lane signal similar to that at The Burlington Hotel and Stillorgan Park would be of great assistance in this scenario (Any QBN folks lurking here?? )

Whilst Foggy_Lad suspects all manner of Gunpowder Plot material between route 92 and 145 drivers,the reality is that operating as they do from totally seperate garages,most would not even know each other to see let alone conspire with

I would fervently hope that the Network Direct Team have taken time-out this weekend to review the events of last week,hopefully they will return to the fray tomorrow with a rather more finely tuned set of "First Principles" to be firmly in place before commencement of any future phases.

Fingers X`d for tomorrow then ??

devnull

To say that this is part of a work to rule is ridiculous - having been out on the streets it is clearly not the case.

As for the proposals to terminate the 7 at Heuston, then I really don't think this is feasible following the cuts to route 4, as that will take the O'Connell Street stop out, and would make the huge number of passengers who get on at this stop, to go to an already ridiculously overcrowded route 4 as in my experience the majority of those who get the 7 at this stop travel to the area shared by both routes.

SickCert

foggy_lad wrote: »

you just tell them it is exact fare only and you dont take notes then put them off the bus and continue your journey, simples. bus drivers are not there to hold passengers hands they are doing a very important job in the general scheme and should not be delayed by people that aree half asleep or who have not informed themselves of what they will need going out in the big bad world.

Sure it will take them 2 mins to search their bags/pockets for 2.20 in coinage.

We are not in a position to put anyone off a bus.

On courses we call them valued customers these days!

Have a look at Carlisle in 1982 a little yellow advert. This type of advert/sticker saves so much time.

foggy_lad

loyatemu wrote: »

why not have Heuston as a "no cash fares" stop and have someone at the station selling tickets (from the Nitelink ticket bus) - its a sufficiently busy location to warrant special treatment.

a few ticket machines inside the station with proper notices of stops and the routes for tourists etc would be great.

KD345 wrote: »

Foggy Lad, I'm not quite sure where your claim of drivers being difficult is coming from. If a bus driver is identifying problems along their route then they are more than entitled to point them out. Unless you can provide specific incidents of drivers being uncooperative then I feel your comments are out of line considering there are bus drivers posting here. The reports from Alek and Sickcert would suggest they are doing all they can to make the transition from the 92 to 145 as smooth as possible by helping customers with queries. In a few posts you have gone from criticizing drivers from not being cooperative to criticizing them for helping customers too much. It reads like you have a problem with bus drivers in general. Perhaps you have reasons for this, but if you're complaining just for the sake of it then it's unhelpful.

i was getting the impression from some of the language being used in some of the posts here such as

It is not working...it cannot work as currently structured,but admitting that is not an option for senior people who are highly politically sensitive.

it is only a week into it and drivers have already decided it is dead in the water.

SickCert wrote: »

Sure it will take them 2 mins to search their bags/pockets for 2.20 in coinage.

We are not in a position to put anyone off a bus.

On courses we call them valued customers these days!

Have a look at Carlisle in 1982 a little yellow advert. This type of advert/sticker saves so much time.

you as driver tell them to leave your bus and get the next one which they should only board if they have the exact change in their hand.

KD345

foggy_lad wrote: »

a few ticket machines inside the station with proper notices of stops and the routes for tourists etc would be great.

i was getting the impression from some of the language being used in some of the posts here such as it is only a week into it and drivers have already decided it is dead in the water.

you as driver tell them to leave your bus and get the next one which they should only board if they have the exact change in their hand.

Getting an impression is very different from making claims that drivers were not doing their job, blaming passengers, and not contributing to the smooth running of services.

You quoted one line of a post made by Alek. His post was very clear as to what he felt the problems and solutions were. You as good as accused him of sabotage and blaming passengers and now, despite his clarification, you continue to pick parts of his post to suit your argument. He has stated it is not working as "currently structured". I would agree to an extent, as the last week has had no passenger information in Heuston, no timetables on stops and no on board information on buses. There also appears to an issue with running time which will hopefully be looked at.

If you have a specific example of a problem by all means report it here and to Dublin Bus, but accusing people posting here of not doing their job, when it is clear they are, is just wrong.

Creamy Goodness

whilst not really related (along the same route really) the 84x is really suffering these days, used to be able to get it at 8:10 on the southern cross in bray and be at my desk at 9am.

nowadays i have to get the 7:30 to get in for the same time. seems a lot of time is spent by the driver explaining at every stop that s/he can only take x amount of people.

foggy_lad

SickCert wrote: »

I have to say the running time with boosted numbers isnt allowing it to work. Example we have 40mins going special to Kilmac from Donnybrook, then 45 working back in to hand over compared to the 60 mins previous. I was delayed yesterday by three girls going to the Stillorgan park hotel, fresh from the train and not a clue about the services or €20 euro notes in cash fare boxes.

AlekSmart wrote: »

Indeed Antoin,but most certainly not their Drivers..:)

Today`s situation on the 145 is still ongoing,but up until 20.30 drivers were still finishing their duties 20 minutes late.

This,on the 145 is unusual,but on a Saturday,is perhaps indicative of something being not quite right..?

Nobody in authority saw fit to actually take a close look at what the New ! Improved !! 145 was being asked to do.

Their is a world of difference between operating on a high frequency trunk route,with most of it`s customers regular users and possessing of passes or ready sorted cash and then operating the same route from Heuston Station where huge numbers of totally unfamiliar provincials who will happily wave €50 Notes and a host of totally invalid Rail-Only tickets with many having absolutely no idea of where they are going except a belief that the driver is there to offer a Free Consultation and Counselling service....He/She may well be all of those...but only at the expense of whatever tenuous grip the Timetable had over the route.

It is not working...it cannot work as currently structured,but admitting that is not an option for senior people who are highly politically sensitive.

The most important short-term fix IMO,is to accept that the Heuston Station-City Centre element is somewhat deserving of a stand-alone service a la the 92(:rolleyes:) which might just allow for some realistic treatment of the rest of the 145 route...Failure to appreciate this distinction runs a very high risk of alienating and losing regular patrons of the 145...but then again,perhaps in the new post Deloitte era,they are expendable ?

it is a bit more than an impression really isn't it?

KD345

foggy_lad wrote: »

it is a bit more than an impression really isn't it?

What part of that suggest the driver is not doing their job or trying to sabotage the service?

The quoted piece above tells me there is a serious communications problem at Heuston Station and even more so at Dublin Bus. Look at the amount of passenger information available at Dublin Airport. Passengers are told everything from how much a bus journey costs, to leaflets about using the bus and clear route maps and shelters. For some reason Dublin Bus doesnt have a similar approach a Heuston Station.

You can't blame tourists for not knowing how to use a local bus service and similarly you can't blame bus drivers for assisting passengers when required.

I'll be honest, I'm the first peson to complain about a bus driver who is in the wrong, but in this case, on this thread, I can see no evidence of bus drivers sabotaging the new 145 service as you're claiming. You've backed up your claims with faults that lie far beyond the bus driver. Yes, Dublin Bus have bad customer service, but complaining because a bus driver helped a tourist or spoke openly about their concerns of meeting their timetable is crazy.

lainey316

Ugh. Got into Heuston at 7.10. expecting a 91 - is this also gone? Eventually a 145 showed up, insufficient luggage space, ended up absolutely packed. Half the passengers got off at D'olier St where there was a large number of customers waiting - with one door, the disembarkation/embarkation procedure took quite a while.
Running a bus to timetable after the high volume trains come in Sunday night leads only to frustration and overcrowding - the 91 is great as it matches the trains.

Not loving it. Can anyone confirm if the 91 is gone?

KD345

Hi Lainy, according to Dublin Bus, the 91 is still operating but its not timetabled and just meets train arrivals.

The 145 has replaced the old 92 service, although this didn't run on Sundays.

lainey316

thanks kd - will stick with the train I know has a 91 in future in that case (gets in at 815)

AlekSmart

Not loving it. Can anyone confirm if the 91 is gone?

A major part of the problems raised in this thread is just that....we can`t confirm that the 91 still exists coz we don`t know....for all we know a skip load of Horse-Drawn 86`s may well be lined up outside Heuston tomorrow morning to meet the mail-train.

Eventually a 145 showed up, insufficient luggage space, ended up absolutely packed. Half the passengers got off at D'olier St where there was a large number of customers waiting - with one door, the disembarkation/embarkation procedure took quite a while.

Gosh,now there`s a thing....:(.....but never fear,if we put a even larger bus (with a smaller,slower operating door) on the route then all will be well.......won`t it ?

Meanwhile,we have a few large capacity double door vehicles, ex-Airlink,which are kinda sorta,well surplus`ish at the moment and a few "life Expired" but highly suitable Articulated Buses which,with a bit of inventive modification, could work very well at clearing Train Loads of folks at times like Sunday evenings......

Question is,can we bring ourselves to allocate specialized resources to a specialized task...at a guess I would say no...but events may force a rethink ?

Foggy_Lad posted....

It is only a week into it and drivers have already decided it is dead in the water.

A week is a long time in (Public Transport) politics,Foggy_Lad....that reality,was blindingly apparent to Drivers,Inspectors and most obviously, passengers after 1 day.

Part of the failure is why the thing was allowed to limp along for a full week in this manner...remember the ABC`s are still not fully in place,with Bus Stop and Termini Information a work-in-progress.

It is beyond doubt that the Heuston Station gig needs to be radically overhauled,with the emphasis on markedly decreasing Dwell-Time.

145`s need to be allowed to adhere to their scheduled departure times as far as possible,with the practice of the Stance Inspector holding buses beyond the Timetabled departure ended immediately (NB: We were recently advised that adhering to published Scheduled departure time was a real Biggie for the NTA,but now it seems they were only kidding ?)


Creamy Goodness posted.....

the 84x is really suffering these days, used to be able to get it at 8:10 on the southern cross in bray and be at my desk at 9am.

Nowadays i have to get the 7:30 to get in for the same time. seems a lot of time is spent by the driver explaining at every stop that s/he can only take x amount of people.

This is exactly what we don`t need to hear right now and is evidence of just how far reaching this weeks damage has been.

I have always regarded the 84X and Expresso services generally as one of the Positives in our operation,and an element deserving of further improvement.

This posters experience is something that really needs attention asap,before those passenger numbers start falling away....although some posters may feel the issue is bogus and easily solved by dismissing that explanatory Busdriver :rolleyes: