Dublin Bus route 145 :(

genie_us

Oh how I miss the 92 - first week of getting to Heuston on the 145 in the evenings has not been going too well - anyone else in the same boat?

foggy_lad

I saw the 145 pulling up at Heuston a couple of times and it was absolutely packed. I pity anyone that tried to get on after this bus fills up. People on the bus were on their way home from work but looked so miserable and uncomfortable.

liger

genie_us wrote: »

Oh how I miss the 92 - first week of getting to Heuston on the 145 in the evenings has not been going too well - anyone else in the same boat?

What do you mean??? is it not turning up? bus full when it gets to your stop? rude drivers??

niamhas

I've had the misfortune of trying to get this bus every evening as I work near Heuston Station. It has been a disaster all week but last evening was by far the worst. I arrived at the station at 6.20pm, and eventually boarded a bus at 7.00pm. During that time three buses pulled into the station - 2 went out of service and one turned into a 46E - I'm not sure but i didn't think the 46E served heuston!

Anyway, there was a Dublin Bus rep there and myself and another lady complained to him about the appalling service and he kept telling us that the bus is not advertised as leaving Heuston every 10 minutes but it leaves Kilmac every 10 minutes and then will encounter traffic on its way and be delayed - i've checked the website and it is advertised as leaving Heuston every 10 minutes from 6.50am to 9.00 pm.

When I eventually got on a bus at 7.00, we passed another 145 bus at collecting passengers at Trinity College - this bus had not passed us previously so I can only assume that it did not begin it's route at Heuston as I had been waiting there for 40 mins (I hope it did not take this bus 40 mins to get from Heuston to Trinity).

I can accept teething problems but this is ridiculous - and I pity any tourists who arrive at Heuston to be greeted by signs advertising a bus service every 10 minutes!!

Cookie_Monster

niamhas wrote: »

I've had the misfortune of trying to get this bus every evening as I work near Heuston Station. It has been a disaster all week but last evening was by far the worst. I arrived at the station at 6.20pm, and eventually boarded a bus at 7.00pm. During that time three buses pulled into the station - 2 went out of service and one turned into a 46E - I'm not sure but i didn't think the 46E served heuston!

Anyway, there was a Dublin Bus rep there and myself and another lady complained to him about the appalling service and he kept telling us that the bus is not advertised as leaving Heuston every 10 minutes but it leaves Kilmac every 10 minutes and then will encounter traffic on its way and be delayed - i've checked the website and it is advertised as leaving Heuston every 10 minutes from 6.50am to 9.00 pm.

When I eventually got on a bus at 7.00, we passed another 145 bus at collecting passengers at Trinity College - this bus had not passed us previously so I can only assume that it did not begin it's route at Heuston as I had been waiting there for 40 mins (I hope it did not take this bus 40 mins to get from Heuston to Trinity).

46e is a general running of the 46a from x to y, usually CC to Belfield as relief (as well as a normal service)

That rep was outa line, and that is a stupid claim to make on his behalf. How their own reps can't even understand the timetable is beyond me. I'd complain about him being entirely unhelpful.

In regards to the one at Trinity I've little doubt it was one of the ones that went out of service, in order to get down the quays quickly or similar, happens frequently inbound on 145 and 45. This whole week of ND v1 has been an abysmal disaster

foggy_lad

definitely says every 10 minutes on the timetable but maybe drivers and other staff are reading this differently?

http://www.dublinbus.ie/en/Your-Journey1/Timetables/All-Timetables/145--/

Cookie_Monster

foggy_lad wrote: »

definitely says every 10 minutes on the timetable but maybe drivers and other staff are reading this differently?

http://www.dublinbus.ie/en/Your-Journey1/Timetables/All-Timetables/145--/

timetable wrote:

then every 10 minutes

I wonder how that can be read differently :pac::pac::pac:

thomasj

Like I said previously, brings me back to 39 cityswift days. Never kept to it's timetable.

The every x minutes debacle does not work this week has showing it. I'm just surprised they didn't include the word about. Full timetables services all the Way!

niamhas

I've already complained to DB this week about this appaling service, surprise surprise I have received no reponse. That rep is a joke, he's been at heuston every evening this week - and once he starts receiving complaints he high tails it away from the stop and is all of a sudden very busy on his walky talky thing!! He also told us at one point yesterday (after I'd asked him to radio to find out were there any buses on the way) that there was a bus on it's way down the quays and would be there shortly - it arrived 20 minutes later - i've walked the length of the quays many times - it barely takes that long!!!

I also get this bus every morning from under the Loughlinstown flyover and the amount of buses passing by that stop all the way along the N11, while i'd say 20-30 people are waiting at the stops for buses is unbelievable - I really can't understand it as this was not a problem last week and the buses are now supposedly running at a higher frequency.

honru

niamhas wrote: »

When I eventually got on a bus at 7.00, we passed another 145 bus at collecting passengers at Trinity College - this bus had not passed us previously so I can only assume that it did not begin it's route at Heuston as I had been waiting there for 40 mins (I hope it did not take this bus 40 mins to get from Heuston to Trinity).

I and a lot of other passengers were waiting ages for a 46A or 145 to show up on D'Olier Street, around that time yesterday with that fierce rain. Eventually an Out of Service bus turned up, and began service as a 145.

I don't know what happened yesterday, the 46A seemed to be completely non-existent around that time. A poster on the Network Review thread said there was a car crash in the city centre yesterday evening, so it could have been down to that.

foggy_lad

it is down to dublin bus trying to work with one or two less busses than they actually need for this route! they have not taken traffic into account so when a bus is slightly delayed they will sacrifice all the stops between the city centre and heuston because they are taking lessons from irish rail about how to suit themselves and their staff rather than look after their bread and butter pasengers!

SickCert

f®eak s©enery wrote: »

I and a lot of other passengers were waiting ages for a 46A or 145 to show up on D'Olier Street, around that time yesterday with that fierce rain. Eventually an Out of Service bus turned up, and began service as a 145.

I don't know what happened yesterday, the 46A seemed to be completely non-existent around that time. A poster on the Network Review thread said there was a car crash in the city centre yesterday evening, so it could have been down to that.

You really need to complain to the manager in Donnybrook 7034404/39.
They think giving us extra capacity tri-axle deckers next week will solve the issues. They have to be driven with a tad more care, carry more ~ so more stop dwelling time. More time unloading time etc.

The 46E should be the Mountjoy service, also a Belfield short southbound.

I drive the 145s and the Heuston service does have potential, but are bigger buses the answer? More running time is also required to deliver a constant service allowing for horrendous traffic in Bray and the Quays.

devnull

SickCert wrote: »

You really need to complain to the manager in Donnybrook 7034404/39.
They think giving us extra capacity tri-axle deckers next week will solve the issues. They have to be driven with a tad more care, carry more ~ so more stop dwelling time. More time unloading time etc.

The 46E should be the Mountjoy service, also a Belfield short southbound.

I drive the 145s and the Heuston service does have potential, but are bigger buses the answer? More running time is also required to deliver a constant service allowing for horrendous traffic in Bray and the Quays.

And these are the same tri-axle deckers that are operating on the Blanch Corridor to deal with overcrowding there and they are now coming to the 145 in exchange for some normal size buses?

So it's not really a fix of the problem is it, more of a moving it elsewhere, and no doubt the same problems will happen when the Blanch routes are dealt with very soon with reduced journey times etc and we'll be back to square one, unless they do something sensible like use some of the artics not being used right now on the blanch routes at peak times to cover for the moving VT's.

The more I see of this network direct plan and what is happening the more I think the bendy buses have a role to play.

thomasj

Vts used on the 10 will probably be used for the 39a with less needed for the 39

foggy_lad

the bendy busses would be ok but with routes where there is a large throughput of passengers along the route there should be centre doors operated by prepaid ticket only allowing passengers bypass the driver thus saving dwell time at stops.

and if passengers are not ready with their change when they step onto the bus they should be turned away immediately and told get to the back of the que and have your cash ready when you get on the bus again or you wont be allowed travel!

i was on a few dublin busses earlier in the week and the number of passengers that stood in front of the driver preventing people with passes and prepaid tickets entering while they stupidly rooted around in a bag for the exact change was ridiculous and needs to be addressed by dublin bus, passengers must be shocked into having their change ready before the bus arrives or be left behind! this would speed up boarding and greatly improve all services.

SickCert

devnull wrote: »

And these are the same tri-axle deckers that are operating on the Blanch Corridor to deal with overcrowding there and they are now coming to the 145 in exchange for some normal size buses?

So it's not really a fix of the problem is it, more of a moving it elsewhere, and no doubt the same problems will happen when the Blanch routes are dealt with very soon with reduced journey times etc and we'll be back to square one, unless they do something sensible like use some of the artics not being used right now on the blanch routes at peak times to cover for the moving VT's.

The more I see of this network direct plan and what is happening the more I think the bendy buses have a role to play.

Far from a fix, a tri-axle needs more running time compared to the AX type deckers heading to Phibs over the weekend. We need the manager who reads boards.ie to take it in.
The bendys are for sale and were too slow anyway since the health and safety rule on back doors.

SickCert

For anyone who struggled to get home tonight!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRs8ZSszvRU

devnull

SickCert wrote: »

Far from a fix, a tri-axle needs more running time compared to the AX type deckers heading to Phibs over the weekend. We need the manager who reads boards.ie to take it in.

Pretty much how I thought. Really though, this is partly related to Dublin Bus fare collection policies and the lack of centre doors meaning we have one huge vehicle with a narrow throat that everyone needs to get in and out of the same part of.

I think there needs to be a rethink on the way these timetables and running times are composed, as it clearly is not working, as stated previously and by yourself, I don't honestly believe this swap is a proper fix to the solution, no doubt as the changing of timetables and diagrams and duties may involve someone admitting they are wrong, when everyone out of DB I have spoke to this week about the changes seems to think everything is going well!

The bendys are for sale and were too slow anyway since the health and safety rule on back doors.

Whilst they may be for sale, selling them and withdrawing them from the 4 with the current timetables being in such a state and the en-mass overcrowding that was present before the changes with 100+ on every bus, and is now even worse if that was possible would be plain suicide.

Was just looking at it from the perspective of someone who gets the 4's, time has shown in the past couple of years the days when there are more AW's on the overcrowding and unreliability of this service has been far less than when they have operated mostly double decks during peak Mon-Fri.

With regards to the doors, what exactly is the rule? Reason asking as due to the increase in numbers caused by the cuts, the back doors are being used a lot more often this week to let passengers off on this rout but no doubt by posting this they will now get their knuckles wrapped.

AlekSmart

Devnull posted....

Was just looking at it from the perspective of someone who gets the 4's, time has shown in the past couple of years the days when there are more AW's on the overcrowding and unreliability of this service has been far less than when they have operated mostly double decks during peak Mon-Fri.

Quite true.

The reality of the situation is that Articulated Buses of 18 Metres in length used on any City Bus service demand a totally different infrastructure than an ordinary vehicle.

However,Dublin as a City totally failed to apply any such thinking to our Artic fleet which left the 20 of them floating about like the Hesperous for the want of a route to operate on.

The 4 represented probably the best Route we have for Artic operation and still does in my opinion.

I`d go further and point a wavering finger at the several hundred Mercedes Citaro artics now sitting in storage around London subsequent to their withdrawal over there.....I`ll bet a reasonable offer would get Dublin another 20 well maintained high capacity vehicles for our new direct routes.....:)

From a Drivers perspective the Safe Operation of Artics requires primarily SPACE....dedicated SPACE,free from parked up SUV`s and School Run Johnnies who`ve just nipped in for a paper.

If the great people -shifting capabilities of Artics are to be fully realized then they MUST be operated on a cash-free basis...FULLY Cash Free...Passes + Pre-Paid tickets only missus....:rolleyes:

I`d repaint them a garish hue and make the 4 our first CASH-FREE route...If the Citaro`s were utilized I`d do as London did and have multi-door boarding also !(Subject to Kerb Space availability )

The absolute fiasco of the last week proves beyond doubt that "we" as in Dublin Bus really need to get to grips with the basics of what we are doing.

Massive investment in Electronic stuff and Hi-Techery is all very well and good if its result is quantifiable improvement in service levels and quality...I`d venture to suggest that right now,simply ensuring the presence of a correctly placed steel-pole with a Bus sign atop would be of far greater benefit than a million CCTV`s and AVLS`s put together.

I`d also recommend that Boardsters who use the N11 QBC take a moment to actually look at the inbound Stillorgan Village stop now....this location just screams out loud about where we went astray....resembling an abandoned gypsy encampment with a bare black steel skeleton of a Shelter with only litter and the ever present whiff of bodily fluids to attract new customers out of their BMW`s...Information,such as it is,is contained on a decrepit carousel attached to a topless old blue Bus Pole hidden amongst the undergrowth,of which there is plenty.....

Even the proposed introduction of VT tri-axles onto the 145 route displays worrying signs of somebody not actually having driven one of these,well concieved but poorly specified,vehicles along the route.....I`d be keen to observe one making a safe outbound transit of Kilarney Lane turning onto Herbert Road in anything other than ideal conditions.

Added also to the VT issue is the somewhat less than efficient combination of our lagest seating capacity vehicle having the narrowest and slowest operating Door setup especially when the Door Brake (:mad:) is taken into account.

It appears that there is a significant amount of highly placed persons who view full-to-bursting buses as evidence of success.

I`d suspect these fellows may have accountancy backgrounds as most operationally minded Bus people would see persistently full buses as evidence that something has gone badly wrong.....;)

If we meaningfully addressed the issues surrounding our woefully extended Bus Stop Dwell times then we would at-a-stroke ensure a much improved service,at little cost.

However,in the absence of any indication of such thinking I reckon I`ll give a big + 1 to SickCert for this pithy observation.....

.Far from a fix, a tri-axle needs more running time compared to the AX type deckers heading to Phibs over the weekend. We need the manager who reads boards.ie to take it in.

SickCert

He does view these boards, i spoke to him today. Yet i was speaking to the blind monkey who sees little ~ last week he was the deaf monkey who heard little. Next week?:eek:

Baron de Robeck

At 17.40 this evening three 145's went down Aston Quay to Heuston together (bumper to bumper). First one overloaded with passengers standing up to the cab, second one half full and the third a quarter full.

foggy_lad

Baron de Robeck wrote: »

At 17.40 this evening three 145's went down Aston Quay to Heuston together (bumper to bumper). First one overloaded with passengers standing up to the cab, second one half full and the third a quarter full.

great service! is this caused by drivers going too fast trying to speed up so they can finish earlier or is it poor schedules or just the traffic?

ronn

SickCert wrote: »

You really need to complain to the manager in Donnybrook 7034404/39.
They think giving us extra capacity tri-axle deckers next week will solve the issues. They have to be driven with a tad more care, carry more ~ so more stop dwelling time. More time unloading time etc.

The 46E should be the Mountjoy service, also a Belfield short southbound.

I drive the 145s and the Heuston service does have potential, but are bigger buses the answer? More running time is also required to deliver a constant service allowing for horrendous traffic in Bray and the Quays.

The manager in any Dublin bus Deopt has nothing to do with the new timetable/routes, The National Transport Attority has been brought in to stop db and other companies doing what they want when they want,,
ie. the NTA tell db it take 1hr 30mins to get from hueston to kilmac, db say no it takes 1hr 40mins. NTA say tough thats all your getting.
The NTA done the time table/ cuts for the no.7, db said it wont work that they would needed more buses nta said that db would have to wait a year and get back to them,
So complain to the NTA

foggy_lad

ronn wrote: »

The manager in any Dublin bus Deopt has nothing to do with the new timetable/routes, The National Transport Attority has been brought in to stop db and other companies doing what they want when they want,,
ie. the NTA tell db it take 1hr 30mins to get from hueston to kilmac, db say no it takes 1hr 40mins. NTA say tough thats all your getting.
The NTA done the time table/ cuts for the no.7, db said it wont work that they would needed more buses nta said that db would have to wait a year and get back to them,
So complain to the NTA

sounds like the issues could be an unofficial work to rule by staff that dont like having the running time cut back eating into extended breaks?

AlekSmart

Sounds like the issues could be an unofficial work to rule by staff that dont like having the running time cut back eating into extended breaks?

Eating soup with a fork time again Foggy_Lad

Whatever it sounds like to you is probably exactly what it is so...especially as it`s a CIE ( :eek: ) group company we`re dealing with here.

However there are other`s of a more open minded disposition who are regular 145 route passengers and can testify to the sheer magnificence of a managerial setup,whether NTA or DB,which can take a hugely popular,relatively youthful route and quite literally reduce it to a dysfunctional shambles in the space of a single (5 Day) week.without any assistance from the Drivers !

If anything deserves a performance bonus,this does,as it took superhuman effort and dedication...or perhaps not :rolleyes:

There is little point in me addressing the content of your last post as I fear you have the issue already put-to-bed,however,for the benefit or otherwise of the other posters,particularly 145 regular passengers it is worth pointing out that as yet we have no official confirmation that the NTA is actually at the wheel of this wildly careering vehicle.

I`m somewhat suspicious of this silence as usually shiny,new,improved entities such as the NTA are only too enthusiastic to put themselves out there fighting the good fight (a la Foggy_Lad) against the malignant evil of the State Owned Transport Providers.

Just take a look at the Taxi Regulator...or the Financial Regulator...(Erm...well the new one anyway..:o) or the Energy Regulator...all ever ready to get shaking their booty on the media...whilst the NTA remains schtum....strange behaviour in my humble opinion...which leads me to hold off pointing a quivering finger in their direction as yet.

Mind you I`f I were ronn or indeed Foggy_Lad I`d be none too hopeful of the NTA`s complaints mechanism being any better than those being (well) utilized at present.....:cool:

antoinolachtnai

ronn wrote: »

The manager in any Dublin bus Deopt has nothing to do with the new timetable/routes, The National Transport Attority has been brought in to stop db and other companies doing what they want when they want,,
ie. the NTA tell db it take 1hr 30mins to get from hueston to kilmac, db say no it takes 1hr 40mins. NTA say tough thats all your getting.
The NTA done the time table/ cuts for the no.7, db said it wont work that they would needed more buses nta said that db would have to wait a year and get back to them,
So complain to the NTA

These are DB's timetables, not the NTA's. DB has made it clear that it is happy with the new timetables. It cannot now credibly repudiate them and blame the problems on someone else.

foggy_lad

AlekSmart wrote: »

Eating soup with a fork time again Foggy_Lad

Whatever it sounds like to you is probably exactly what it is so...especially as it`s a CIE ( :eek: ) group company we`re dealing with here.

and their record speaks for itself

However there are other`s of a more open minded disposition who are regular 145 route passengers and can testify to the sheer magnificence of a managerial setup,whether NTA or DB,which can take a hugely popular,relatively youthful route and quite literally reduce it to a dysfunctional shambles in the space of a single (5 Day) week.without any assistance from the Drivers !

my point is the managers whoever they may be have it all on paper and would always seek to cut back on running time as much as possible which is resisted at every turn by drivers whose only real options are all out strike which they would not have a mandate for or some form of unspoken onofficial work to rule where they might spend longer at stops or make sure the bus is the correct distance from the kerb before opening the doors to imaginary faults reported etc etc.

If anything deserves a performance bonus,this does,as it took superhuman effort and dedication..

i completly agree, organising bus routes and timetables is possibly the hardest job in the world!

There is little point in me addressing the content of your last post as I fear you have the issue already put-to-bed,however,for the benefit or otherwise of the other posters,particularly 145 regular passengers it is worth pointing out that as yet we have no official confirmation that the NTA is actually at the wheel of this wildly careering vehicle.

I`m somewhat suspicious of this silence as usually shiny,new,improved entities such as the NTA are only too enthusiastic to put themselves out there fighting the good fight (a la Foggy_Lad) against the malignant evil of the State Owned Transport Providers.

i am waiting to hear about busses arriving to schedule so this is not yet put to bed by me.

Just take a look at the Taxi Regulator...or the Financial Regulator...(Erm...well the new one anyway..:o) or the Energy Regulator...all ever ready to get shaking their booty on the media...whilst the NTA remains schtum....strange behaviour in my humble opinion...which leads me to hold off pointing a quivering finger in their direction as yet.

Mind you I`f I were ronn or indeed Foggy_Lad I`d be none too hopeful of the NTA`s complaints mechanism being any better than those being (well) utilized at present.....:cool:

i dont care who organises the busses as long as they do what it says on the timetable

AlekSmart

These are DB's timetables, not the NTA's. DB has made it clear that it is happy with the new timetables.

Indeed Antoin,but most certainly not their Drivers..:)

Today`s situation on the 145 is still ongoing,but up until 20.30 drivers were still finishing their duties 20 minutes late.

This,on the 145 is unusual,but on a Saturday,is perhaps indicative of something being not quite right..?

Nobody in authority saw fit to actually take a close look at what the New ! Improved !! 145 was being asked to do.

Their is a world of difference between operating on a high frequency trunk route,with most of it`s customers regular users and possessing of passes or ready sorted cash and then operating the same route from Heuston Station where huge numbers of totally unfamiliar provincials who will happily wave €50 Notes and a host of totally invalid Rail-Only tickets with many having absolutely no idea of where they are going except a belief that the driver is there to offer a Free Consultation and Counselling service....He/She may well be all of those...but only at the expense of whatever tenuous grip the Timetable had over the route.

It is not working...it cannot work as currently structured,but admitting that is not an option for senior people who are highly politically sensitive.

The most important short-term fix IMO,is to accept that the Heuston Station-City Centre element is somewhat deserving of a stand-alone service a la the 92(:rolleyes:) which might just allow for some realistic treatment of the rest of the 145 route...Failure to appreciate this distinction runs a very high risk of alienating and losing regular patrons of the 145...but then again,perhaps in the new post Deloitte era,they are expendable ?

foggy_lad

AlekSmart wrote: »

Indeed Antoin,but most certainly not their Drivers..:)

Today`s situation on the 145 is still ongoing,but up until 20.30 drivers were still finishing their duties 20 minutes late.

This,on the 145 is unusual,but on a Saturday,is perhaps indicative of something being not quite right..?

<snip>

It is not working...it cannot work as currently structured,but admitting that is not an option for senior people who are highly politically sensitive.

The most important short-term fix IMO,is to accept that the Heuston Station-City Centre element is somewhat deserving of a stand-alone service a la the 92(:rolleyes:) which might just allow for some realistic treatment of the rest of the 145 route...Failure to appreciate this distinction runs a very high risk of alienating and losing regular patrons of the 145...but then again,perhaps in the new post Deloitte era,they are expendable ?

sounds more and more like drivers trying to sabotage the service because they want a seperate heuston-city centre service as was th case before, some drivers are really allergic to change but need to be rooted out or forced into compliance.

blaming the passengers is not the way to go as most passengers on the route are commuters who know to have the right tickets or change, there is something not right with drivers continually finishing 20minutes late but imo it is down to the drivers and some unofficial action over something they maybe were not consulted over or a shorter unofficial break extension etc and not the route.

saying it is not working and it can not work seems to be done with some knowledge from the coalface that this will never work in its present form but management would not have started the route if there was such an anomoly and such a massive discrepency in times throughout the day! on this you might expect 20minutes at peak hours but all day especially a saturday it is unlikely but still happening?

SickCert

foggy_lad wrote: »

sounds more and more like drivers trying to sabotage the service because they want a seperate heuston-city centre service as was th case before, some drivers are really allergic to change but need to be rooted out or forced into compliance.

blaming the passengers is not the way to go as most passengers on the route are commuters who know to have the right tickets or change, there is something not right with drivers continually finishing 20minutes late but imo it is down to the drivers and some unofficial action over something they maybe were not consulted over or a shorter unofficial break extension etc and not the route.

saying it is not working and it can not work seems to be done with some knowledge from the coalface that this will never work in its present form but management would not have started the route if there was such an anomoly and such a massive discrepency in times throughout the day! on this you might expect 20minutes at peak hours but all day especially a saturday it is unlikely but still happening?

I have to say the running time with boosted numbers isnt allowing it to work. Example we have 40mins going special to Kilmac from Donnybrook, then 45 working back in to hand over compared to the 60 mins previous. I was delayed yesterday by three girls going to the Stillorgan park hotel, fresh from the train and not a clue about the services or €20 euro notes in cash fare boxes.

AlekSmart

Blaming the passengers is not the way to go as most passengers on the route are commuters who know to have the right tickets or change, there is something not right with drivers continually finishing 20minutes latebut imo it is down to the drivers and some unofficial action over something they maybe were not consulted over or a shorter unofficial break extension etc and not the route.

OK,it really does need to be said in some manner that most posters will understand:

THERE IS NO INDUSTRIAL ACTION INVOLVED IN THE CURRENT PHASE 1 NETWORK DIRECT SITUATION.


That is about as clear as I can make it.

If Foggy_Lad has an opinion to the contrary,he is fully entitled to hold it,but he could also be expected to accept some opinion from those on-the-ground,both passengers and staff.

If he does`nt,then fair enough,but I can`t state it clearer.

Mind you,if this was the result of industrial action,it would be a hugely successful application of it as I have never before seen such a comprehensive collapse of a pre-existing functional service.

As for Goggy_Lad`s insinuation that I was blaming the passengers,nothing could be further from the truth.

I am outlining FACT.

The FACT is that any major interchange which sees large groups of unfamiliar or unprepared passengers arriving together requires a fundementally different operational approach than a day to day ordinary location on a Bus route.

Management would not have started the route if there was such an anomoly

Foggy_Lad has in fact quite correctly identified the main causitive element in this fiasco,a decision taken at the highest levels to implement a major public bus service alteration in advance of the preparitory infrastructure being put in place.

That is most definitely an anomaly,but it did not prevent management from pressing ahead despite all too obvious indications of the eventual outcome.

I would be somewhat sceptical of Foggy_Lads intimate knowledge of what DB management would or would not do as a great many involved remain mystified as to the same issue.