Dublin Bus route 145 :(

foggy_lad

stop wrote: »

Anoter convoy outbound in Donnybrook around 19:45 tonight - 6 VTS! 3x145 & 3x46a.

the auld saying is making a comeback! no bus for an hour then they all arrive at once!

Cookie_Monster

VT on the 45 running as "special" this morning to through Cabinteely, ie no number but 45 is only bus through there, not a school bus or anything. less than half full too from what I saw, are 45s running slow now due to having to switch VTs for untrained drivers too?

shofukan

Wednesday 3rd November..
Coming out of Dublin, get the 145 from Nassau street. Packed.
Only seat left is up the top deck at the back on the right hand side. The reason it's free, the seat is directly in-front of the back row. There's 2 junkies sitting on the back row, taking the whole bench to my left for their stuff. There was a man and a woman. The man was drinking cans and bottles of cider and eating tins of some John West stuff which absolutely stank..
When he finished his cans and tins, he threw them out the window (while the bus was still moving) When he finished his bottles he threw them out the window (while sitting in traffic). He started smoking and threw the butts on the floor. He screamed abuse at the woman who was with him and tried to rob 2 benches. From listening (and there was no way I couldn'thave listened) I know that he was just out of prison and was wanted for something else already and that he hadn't reapplied for the dole.

I told the driver when I got off in Shankill and he actually tried not to listen. I had to tell him 3 times.

For those of you wondering why I didn't go stand downstairs.. No more seats anywhere and I was having trouble with my feet due to dishydrosis.

tl;dr - Fúcking junkies!!

Wednesday 10th November..
Have to be in town for 6..
At the bus stop in Shankill at 5. Decide to get whatever comes up to Foxrock so I can either get a 145 or a 46A to the end of Nassau street where I have to get off. An 84 comes at about 5 past, I get on it and travel as far as Foxrock church. This takes 25 minutes. I was waiting at Foxrock for 30 minutes.. The 145 eventually comes and is yet again packed. Yet again, seat at the back, infront of a junkie / wino. The bus driver didn't seem to know how to drive because the bus stopped 3 times between Foxrock and Stephens Green to pick up passengers and the driver couldn't get the bus to move again. So it took an hour to get from Foxrock to Stevens Green.. I got off early beacause I was so late. My class finished at a quarter past 7 So I managed to get in just in time for the last 10 odd minutes of class. This was an intensive class and I'm now behind in the course (as if I wasn't far enough behind already!)

tl;dr - Fúcking Busses!!

Friday 12th November..
Went over to a mates house, went out to get the last bus. Was at the bus at 11 on the dot. Neither a 145 nor a 45A comes.. Standing there until 20 past 12. No bus. I was luck that a friend happened to drive along and gave me a lift back to Shankill. Even though I later found out that the last bus now leaves at 20 past (something which wasn't advertised at all) Neither of the 2 busses showed up, meaning I would have had to stay in Bray or walk for an hour back to Shankill through Bray, on a Friday night, on my own, in the cold, through Bray..

tl;dr - fúcking busses not running :mad:

foggy_lad

is it by design that dublin bus has no dedicated customer complaints department? it seems if you make a complaint to any office/garage etc you are likely to be told you need to go to some other garage or office and most people will just give up.

liger

foggy_lad wrote: »

is it by design that dublin bus has no dedicated customer complaints department? it seems if you make a complaint to any office/garage etc you are likely to be told you need to go to some other garage or office and most people will just give up.

Customer Comment Desk
customercomment@dublinbus.ie
Telephone: (01) 8734222
Phone lines open: Monday - Friday 09:00hrs - 17:00hrs

Write to:
Customer Comment Desk,
Dublin Bus,
59 Upper O’Connell Street,
Dublin 1,
Ireland.

thats the complaints dept in HQ.

markpb

liger wrote: »

thats the black hole dept in HQ.

Fixed your post for you.

dfx-

First experience of the fabled effect of 145 changes after several uneventful trips...

Miss VT23 departing D'Olier St at half seven after an 05 VT on the 46A..ok wait. Then AX542 shows its face on the 46A 5 minutes later and does well. Next at 1945, up shows EV91 on the 145. Crooooowded.

Waits at Donnybrook Garage for five minutes for an EV 145 behind to empty onto EV91, a pretty full bus as there's no driver for the EV behind. About 3 busloads of people on an EV in one journey. An hour to Bray. The driver was a credit to the company dealing with the delay in particular...under that much pressure put on by the ineptitude of his employers.

I'm 70% sure I saw VT23 (maybe VT28) inbound from Donnybrook. Surely, that did not stop at D/brook, empty out and go back...surely:eek:

foggy_lad

liger wrote: »

Customer Comment Desk
customercomment@dublinbus.ie
Telephone: (01) 8734222
Phone lines open: Monday - Friday 09:00hrs - 17:00hrs

Write to:
Customer Comment Desk,
Dublin Bus,
59 Upper O’Connell Street,
Dublin 1,
Ireland.

thats the complaints dept in HQ.

That is as the name suggests surely nothing more than a comment or feedback dept? I asked was there no dedicated "complaints" department.

SickCert

foggy_lad wrote: »

That is as the name suggests surely nothing more than a comment or feedback dept? I asked was there no dedicated "complaints" department.

The people in charge dont see a problem!! They dont have any record of 'private hire' buses (according to last weeks meeting). Also they like the higher loadings..........

I believe there is a two week monitor underway, so keep your emails heading their way.:pac:

trellheim

Surely the 145s all come from a garage that can be telephoned to find out where a bus is ?

AlekSmart

That is as the name suggests surely nothing more than a comment or feedback dept? I asked was there no dedicated "complaints" department.

Oh Foggy_Lad you are a card...;)

In the midst of so much smoke and mirrors you manage to put your foggy finger directly upon another little known alteration to the world as we know it.

The company are currently restructuring their "Customer Service" function (Complaints Dept to most of the citizenry).

As you astutely spotted it`s being renamed a "Customer Comment" Dept to what avail I do not know...I assume it`s to allow a greater prominence to the expected influx of Positive Customer Comments post Network Direct...:)

What worries me is the potential for some of the many (a figure of 26,000 is oft heard) very pertinent negative comments made by Customers on the Old system to be erased or "lost" during the run-up of the "New-Improved" Customer Comment line.....I hope not,but after the events of the past 3 months who can say....

Sick Certs post....

The people in charge dont see a problem!! They dont have any record of 'private hire' buses (according to last weeks meeting). Also they like the higher loadings..........

This is a very significant aspect of what this mega-thread is concerned with.

If there is non-recording of "in-service,out-of-service" running (Dropping off only) then whatever statistics are being collated are totally nullified leading to a very definite Garbage In=Garbage Out situation.

Waits at Donnybrook Garage for five minutes for an EV 145 behind to empty onto EV91, a pretty full bus as there's no driver for the EV behind. About 3 busloads of people on an EV in one journey. An hour to Bray. The driver was a credit to the company dealing with the delay in particular...under that much pressure put on by the ineptitude of his employers.

What dfx- most likely experienced here is the actuality of the Late Breaking Driver sysndrome.

That absent Driver was probably on his statutory meal-break which he/she may well have been up to 20 mins late taking.

Whilst many drivers were/are flexible in this situation,the occurrences of late-breaking on the 145 are now so widespread as to make any such flexibility largely irrelevant.

I still see the reintroduction of a dedicated Heuston Station-City Centre route as a pre-requisite to sorting out the 145 debacle.

It`s glaringly apparent to me that attempting to combine a long-haul trunk route such as the 145 with the totally different ethos of a Railhead Feeder 92 cannot work under the present arrangements.

If asked,I would recommend the immediate re-introduction of the 92,perhaps running between UCD and Heuston Station.

I`m now of the belief that the 145`s alignment to Mountjoy Square may well have been the most appropriate given the scenes still being witnessed on O Connell St/D`Olier streets.

The need to extend the 145 to accomodate the Deloitte Principles may be a requirement but perhaps Heuston was a Station too Far in this case.

However there is little doubt but some rather basic re-thinking is necessary if the Routes concerned are to be prevented haemorraging customers.

The belief that Full Buses are desireable is only worthwhile as long as those buses are not full of angry,disgruntled and dissatisfied customers many of whom will soon be EX-Customers if this situation is not addressed.

There is already ongoing speculation as to what the AVLS system is going to make of the 145 issue when it goes live.

From my own perspective AVLS will make it almost impossible to cover over the yawning chasms in the 145`s schedule as currently operated...but perhaps I`m mistaken on that ?

markpb

AlekSmart wrote: »

It`s glaringly apparent to me that attempting to combine a long-haul trunk route such as the 145 with the totally different ethos of a Railhead Feeder 92 cannot work under the present arrangements.

You've hit the nail on the head. DB have demonstrated that they really don't know what they're doing with this review.

Bazzer2

So, is the blame with:

- Deloitte for coming up with the idea, without a bull's notion of what goes into operating a bus service, or
- Dublin Bus for implementing the idea, knowing it was daft and blindly hoping it would work, or
- a combination of both

By the way, the idea of Route 92 as a full-time FREQUENT service between Belfield and Heuston is pure gold. Then, the 39A could run to Baggot Street only with the rest of the Blanch routes, which would do wonders for its currently shaky reliability.

devnull

The thing is what Deloitte recommended for a large part of this network review, has actually been lost, as how things have been implemented and handled are a little bit different than the report suggested, and on some route the fundamentals of that report have been lost, I'm not saying the report is perfect, nothing is perfect, but a large amount of the blame has to be put to Dublin Bus management.

KC61

Bazzer2 wrote: »

So, is the blame with:

- Deloitte for coming up with the idea, without a bull's notion of what goes into operating a bus service, or
- Dublin Bus for implementing the idea, knowing it was daft and blindly hoping it would work, or
- a combination of both

By the way, the idea of Route 92 as a full-time FREQUENT service between Belfield and Heuston is pure gold. Then, the 39A could run to Baggot Street only with the rest of the Blanch routes, which would do wonders for its currently shaky reliability.

As I said above - the report made very good recommendations and in designing the revised network and public timetables DB have actually done a reasonable job.

The problem is that for some routes at certain times (it isn't all of the departures) the underlying internal bus and driver rosters are not realistic in that they do not allow sufficient running time for the bus to complete their journeys. The result is that buses and drivers are not where they ought to be and journeys are being cancelled.

What needs to happen is that the driver and bus rosters are revisited and realistic rosters prepared that do deliver a reliable and efficient service.

Cookie_Monster

Is the Deloitte report publicly available?

liger

Bazzer2 wrote: »

So, is the blame with:

- Deloitte for coming up with the idea, without a bull's notion of what goes into operating a bus service, or
- Dublin Bus for implementing the idea, knowing it was daft and blindly hoping it would work, or
- a combination of both
.

I'd say it has to do with guys sitting in offices that rarely take buses deciding where routes should go and then giving the responsibilty of coming up with scedules to other guys sitting in offices that have never driven a bus while ignoring all imput from unions and drivers.

devnull

Report here
http://www.transport.ie/upload/general/11393-0.pdf

AlekSmart

Here ye go Cookie...


http://www.transport.ie/upload/general/11393-0.pdf

I'd say it has to do with guys sitting in offices that rarely take buses deciding where routes should go and then giving the responsibilty of coming up with scedules to other guys sitting in offices that have never driven a bus while ignoring all imput from unions and drivers.

I would agree with the general point Liger makes.

However it is worth bearing in mind that there are many avenues of internal communication available which do not require a formal Union/Management framework.

Odd as it may seem to many,the current situation has very little to do with Union/Management rivalry or the infamous "Inter-Union" disputes of past decades.

The Network Direct implimantation has instead revealed a hitherto concealed deep gulf of comprehension and appreciation as to what a Drivers daily work actually entails,as opposed to the version being displayed on a top spec Laptop in a remote,well sorted Office.

The inhabitants of that Gulf are our Customers !

dub_commuter

At the end of the day Noel Dempsey has control over CIE but refused to use it.

All he is, is a lame duck, that so typical of this country, with the Garda, and many other areas, those who can influence things, choose not to do so, as that'll actually involve sorting something out.

KC61

dub_commuter wrote: »

At the end of the day Noel Dempsey has control over CIE but refused to use it.

All he is, is a lame duck, that so typical of this country, with the Garda, and many other areas, those who can influence things, choose not to do so, as that'll actually involve sorting something out.

The DoT have told DB to cut costs and become more efficient. That is what they are doing, but they are cutting back too far.

The reality is that there is no one currently in the NTA or DOT with experience to run a public transport company.

dub_commuter

Which begs the question, instead of recruiting people who have no experience, why didn't they recruit someone with that experience, who has a history in the transport business?

KC61

dub_commuter wrote: »

Which begs the question, instead of recruiting people who have no experience, why didn't they recruit someone with that experience, who has a history in the transport business?

They are only still being set up - this sort of thing takes time.

As Gerry Murphy said at the Oireachtas committee, it is going to take time to get fully up and running. To be fair they are trying to get the setup correct but it's not going to be done overnight.

Cookie_Monster

KC61 wrote: »

They are only still being set up - this sort of thing takes time.

As Gerry Murphy said at the Oireachtas committee, it is going to take time to get fully up and running. To be fair they are trying to get the setup correct but it's not going to be done overnight.

yes, but the DoT has been around for decades, surely its stuffed full of highly experienced people of all different fields

:pac::pac::pac::pac::pac:

KC61

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

yes, but the DoT has been around for decades, surely its stuffed full of highly experienced people of all different fields

:pac::pac::pac::pac::pac:

I don't think they would have very much operational experience...plenty of theory.

antoinolachtnai

Well, the NTA did advertise for a director of public transport, but has not appointed anybody to this role.

There is a bit of a change happening in outlook at the NTA, I think. It was originally intended to be an infrastructure-oriented organization, both in terms of civil engineering and strategic planning.

It is turning out that what is needed is more of an operationally-focused transport authority, oriented around the sorts of issues that are discussed in this thread.

It looks to me like information and communication technology are becoming clearer as bigger issues. The commercial and finance issues are being thrown into stark relief by the current situation. Marketing will be a big focus too.

It is honestly difficult for a civil engineering organization to reorient itself to this set of requirements. It is a completely different mindset.

In fairness to the NTA, it does employ at least one person with practical experience of running a bus service. Now, one is not many, but it s a lot more than none, which is what there is in the Department of Transport.

AlekSmart

In fairness to the NTA, it does employ at least one person with practical experience of running a bus service. Now, one is not many, but it s a lot more than none, which is what there is in the Department of Transport.

On this point Antoin,do we know the makeup of the NTA`s Advisory Council or even whether it exists as yet ?

KC61

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

Well, the NTA did advertise for a director of public transport, but has not appointed anybody to this role.

There is a bit of a change happening in outlook at the NTA, I think. It was originally intended to be an infrastructure-oriented organization, both in terms of civil engineering and strategic planning.

It is turning out that what is needed is more of an operationally-focused transport authority, oriented around the sorts of issues that are discussed in this thread.

It looks to me like information and communication technology are becoming clearer as bigger issues. The commercial and finance issues are being thrown into stark relief by the current situation. Marketing will be a big focus too.

It is honestly difficult for a civil engineering organization to reorient itself to this set of requirements. It is a completely different mindset.

In fairness to the NTA, it does employ at least one person with practical experience of running a bus service. Now, one is not many, but it s a lot more than none, which is what there is in the Department of Transport.

Absolutely agree with this - that was exactly my point that it would be impossible for the NTA to take over as someone suggested - but given time....

united18

niamhas wrote: »

I've already complained to DB this week about this appaling service, surprise surprise I have received no reponse. That rep is a joke, he's been at heuston every evening this week - and once he starts receiving complaints he high tails it away from the stop and is all of a sudden very busy on his walky talky thing!! He also told us at one point yesterday (after I'd asked him to radio to find out were there any buses on the way) that there was a bus on it's way down the quays and would be there shortly - it arrived 20 minutes later - i've walked the length of the quays many times - it barely takes that long!!!

I also get this bus every morning from under the Loughlinstown flyover and the amount of buses passing by that stop all the way along the N11, while i'd say 20-30 people are waiting at the stops for buses is unbelievable - I really can't understand it as this was not a problem last week and the buses are now supposedly running at a higher frequency.

I can understand peoples frustration D/Bus promised its passangers a new and improved 145 service starting from 19/SEP/10.the main reason people are been left waiting is when the 145 leaves kilmacanogue we as drivers have 120 mins to get to hueston during peak times this is impossible,It may take 40mins to clear bray alone.when buses are running late inspectors have to regulate tham this could entail turning buses early or having to put 46e on scrolls or as is more common send the bus back to point A out of service . The knock on effect of this is many people are left waiting on buses that should be in hueston but have been turned in westmoreland st.to get them back on time.Im not trying to excuse mearly offer an explanation.the good news folks is that D/bus have finally recognised this and are going to increase the running time,dont know when hopefully b4 xmas

foggy_lad

I have thought of something that might improve the 145 situation but it would require advertising and educating the public and also a bit of effort from drivers.

Have a bus leaving every ten minutes but dont let any bus pick up more than 5-8 people at any stiop on the route, this way busses will not be passing each other wildly so bus A gets to heuston 40 minutes after bus B.

This way everyone gets a bus that has room to take them and nobody is left waiting too long at stops as those arriving earliest get the first bus along because they are top of the que with their exact change or tickets ready!

Driver input would be to refuse to take more than the 5-8 people at each stop, people may complain at the start but when there is another bus in ten minutes which they get on they have little to whinge about as the likelihood of them being passed by several full or "out of service" busses will be gone.

This could also be done with other busy routes.