iSpy has done it again! Let's compare the Roma to parasites ...

Nodin

prinz wrote: »

A country deporting people legally... no issue whatsoever.



They haven't. France deports people day-in, day-out regardless of ethnicity.

They prioritised Roma over others, as revealed in a leaked memo.

Agricola

Duck's hoop wrote: »

O'Doherty is a poorman's polemicist.

If the same thing was happening to Irish citizens, in say for example England, and it was very nearly like that in the 60s and 70s, where would you stand on the issue?

The issue is not what your personal opinions on the Roma people are, the issue is whether it's morally defensible to deport people on the grounds of ethnicity.

But thats just it. Sarkozy himself has said its not on the grounds of ethnicity. Its a case of repatriating a group of people who in no way contribute to the society they live in. In fact they do the opposite in most cases. The fact that this group are Roma gypsies is neither here nor there. If they came to France and actually conducted themselves like normal people, they wouldnt be in this situation.

If Irish people had went to Britain and instead of getting jobs, paying tax and generally being upstanding citizens, they decided to live the kind of lifestyle of a Roma gypsy, I would be the first to say they should be kicked out of the country and back here.

Duck's hoop

prinz wrote: »

They haven't. France deports people day-in, day-out regardless of ethnicity.

So does our own DOJ. Though we have so far resisted from deporting minority groups en masse.

Legality and morality are not the same thing.

My personal opinion is obviously that it is wrong and quite dangerous.

karlog

Can someone tell me who the Roma people are. I thought they were Romanians but i now know their not:o

Nodin

Agricola wrote: »

But thats just it. Sarkozy himself has said its not on the grounds of ethnicity.

Yes, thats what he says in public.
Its a shame the orders weren't so egalitarian
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/sep/13/france-deportation-roma-illegal-memo

FlutterinBantam

Duck's hoop wrote: »

O'Doherty is a poorman's polemicist.

If the same thing was happening to Irish citizens, in say for example England, and it was very nearly like that in the 60s and 70s, where would you stand on the issue?

The issue is not what your personal opinions on the Roma people are, the issue is whether it's morally defensible to deport people of people on the grounds of ethnicity.

Maybe we need more polemicists?

Of course it is not morally defensible to deport people who have legal rights on the grounds of ethnicity.

But..... if groups of people enter a country with no desire to contribute or integrate with societal norms current in that country and are identified specifically with crime and antisocial behaviour then shunt them out.

These people and their left wing apologists think they are experts in clouding the issues and trying to fob off the taxpayer with arguments designed to muddy the waters and obfuscate the real issues .


John Q taxpayer is not an idiot.... play your part and try-then you are welcome.

Ride the system and contribute nothing only crime and unrest whilst hidind under the race blanket... get the fcuk out.

The so called protagonists of the underdog, irrespective of common sense, will try to cloud the issues, but most normal taxpayers will understand common sense:cool:

Hank Scorpio

Nodin wrote: »

Do they do an evil cackle that goes on for ages and switch to english for the laughing at the Irish people? Or did you pick that up on the brain wave reader.

While you're at it, you might explain how begging removes one from humanity in general and down to "sub human".....

Where did I mention cackling? I merely stated what I have seen numerous times.

They CHOOSE to beg and to steal for a living, thats the way they live and want to live, and yeh to me thats sub human. I dont want them in Ireland or annoying people on Irish streets.

Nodin

nuxxx wrote: »

Where did I mention cackling? .

If you reread, you'll note I didn't state that you did.....

nuxxx wrote: »

I merely stated what I have seen numerous times..

Yeah, the laughing at Irish people. I believe ye. Honestly.

nuxxx wrote: »

They CHOOSE to beg and to steal for a living, thats the way they live and want to live, and yeh to me thats sub human. I dont want them in Ireland or annoying people on Irish streets.

If an Irish person begged and stole, would they become sub-human too?

Hank Scorpio

Nodin wrote: »

If you reread, you'll note I didn't state that you did.....



Yeah, the laughing at Irish people. I believe ye. Honestly.



If an Irish person begged and stole, would they become sub-human too?

Would you stick up for Irish people who are beggars and thiefs through their own free will? There all scum, the lot of them.

And yes I did see them laughing and mocking after putting on there "Oh look at me, my baby is sick act"

Now go troll someone else

Dudess

It just seems like: get a job with Independent Newspapers and get told "Steer your views to the right or say goodbye to your job". I really don't believe Ian O'Doherty would use a term like "parasites" re Roma/would be an Israel apologist if it wasn't for the fact that he's employed by a company whose head honcho is Rupert Murdoch lite.

The attitude here towards Roma seems pretty similar to the attitude towards gypsies in nazi Germany - and a Roma kid once tried to grab my bag and when I managed to get it back from him, the man with him (probably his dad) yelled, presumably, obscenities at me. Doesn't make me hate every single Roma ever either though. Yes, it's a community with a lot of problems - doesn't mean there aren't people born into it who hate the sh1t other members of their community get up to though.

FlutterinBantam

nuxxx wrote: »

Would you stick up for Irish people who are beggars and thiefs through their own free will? There all scum, the lot of them.

And yes I did see them laughing and mocking after putting on there "Oh look at me, my baby is sick act"

Now go troll someone else

Well said man, 'bout time a bit of straight talking instead of lefty rubbish was promulgated in these here parts.

Most of us know what is going on, these people just love the 'underdog' mentality irrespective of the focking facts.

Misguided and apologists for wasters would be my opinion.

Well done sir!

prinz

Nodin wrote: »

They prioritised Roma over others, as revealed in a leaked memo.

Nodin wrote: »

Yes, thats what he says in public.
Its a shame the orders weren't so egalitarian
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/sep/13/france-deportation-roma-illegal-memo

We've dealt with this though haven't we? You know, the parts of the memo you couldn't understand, which relate directly to the numbers of Roma required for deportation?

If you have an agreement to deport X number of people to whatever country by such a date, the common sense approach is to actually look for those people.

ilovelamp2000

If it's illegal to deport them then the law needs to be changed.

We shouldn't have to suffer this nonsense.

bluefinger

Dudess wrote: »

It just seems like: get a job with Independent Newspapers and get told "Steer your views to the right or say goodbye to your job". I really don't believe Ian O'Doherty would use a term like "parasites" re Roma/would be an Israel apologist if it wasn't for the fact that he's employed by a company whose head honcho is Rupert Murdoch lite.

totally agree, he was readable once upon a time, can't remember who he wrote for. but I have to say his use of language is becoming increasingly sensationalist. personally i think it's a result of the bad state the print media is in/need to sell papers.

at the risk of getting my head chewed off here i'll say this, i've lived in two locations in Dublin for a period of about 3 years each and had Roma family living very close about 15 feet from front door, never had one problem with them. I'm not a bleeding heart liberal but do think you have to be careful when referring to an entire ethnic group as parasites, particularly given the connotations the word has with genocide etc in the past.

prinz

Duck's hoop wrote: »

So does our own DOJ. Though we have so far resisted from deporting minority groups en masse.

We have, have we?......

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/ireland-deports-roma-after-standoff-over-roundabout-458753.html

Nearly a hundred Roma gypsies were flown from Ireland to Bucharest last night, bringing an end to a months-long stand-off that saw them living on a motorway roundabout in scenes more reminiscent of Delhi slums than Dublin suburbs.......After Ireland's laws were explained to the Roma group in Dublin, most decided to go home of their own accord on free flights, laid on with the support of the Romanian governement. So on Tuesday, police moved in to transport the gypsies from their roundabout home to a temporary holding centre.
"They have all chosen to go home and they are being voluntarily repatriated," a spokeswoman for Ireland's Ministry of Justice was keen to emphasise.

Voluntary repatriation, free flights home, deported as a group from their camp...sounds vaguely familiar alright.

Nodin

prinz wrote: »

We've dealt with this though haven't we? You know, the parts of the memo you couldn't understand, which relate directly to the numbers of Roma required for deportation?
.

And, if you'd care to remember, that was dealt with in detail as well.

OutlawPete

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

Well said man, 'bout time a bit of straight talking instead of lefty rubbish was promulgated in these here parts.!

There was great "right wing" poster on After Hours last year and he was obviously very knowledgeable on a variety of issues which he chose to speak on but almost every time he posted his opinions he was labeled a racist by around a half a dozen or so.

He kept getting banned and in the end it became a permanent one but while I might not have agreed with all he wrote, I did enjoy his posts and agreed with quite a bit of what he had to say.

It really annoys me when people who a right wing are labeled as racists and ultimately driven from the site as I feel their views are needed to give balance to what almost always seems to be constant debates where liberals drown out anything that might be considered to be a right wing view point.

Duck's hoop

There's plenty of Irish 'wasters' walking the streets of London, Manchester, Rotterdam, Boston, Alicante, Sydney, you name it. A lot not contributing jack to their host society and involved in nefarious activities to boot.

Would be interesting to see the reaction from home should a Sarkozy type plan be implemented in these places.

It's not about the underdog, not even about being left-leaning, politically. Though I am, and if that's an insult, well, Tea Party anyone?

prinz

Nodin wrote: »

And, if you'd care to remember, that was dealt with in detail as well.

I remember well. I think your counter to it basically boiled down to a 'yeah, well, it should be clearer' Exit stage left.

Nodin

nuxxx wrote: »

Would you stick up for Irish people who are beggars and thiefs through their own free will? There all scum, the lot of them.

But they aren't subhuman are they? Why not?

nuxxx wrote: »

And yes I did see them laughing and mocking after putting on there "Oh look at me, my baby is sick act".

I'm in awe. What language were they speaking?

nuxxx wrote: »

Now go troll someone else

I'm raising points based on what you've stated. Thats what happens on a message board.

Nodin

prinz wrote: »

I remember well. I think your counter to it basically boiled down to a 'yeah, well, it should be clearer' Exit stage left.

Obviously you're not remembering it that well.

prinz

Duck's hoop wrote: »

There's plenty of Irish 'wasters' walking the streets of London, Manchester, Rotterdam, Boston, Alicante, Sydney, you name it. A lot not contributing jack to their host society and involved in nefarious activities to boot. Would be interesting to see the reaction from home should a Sarkozy type plan be implemented in these places.

You know what I'd say? Tough titties. You're Irish and illegally in the US? Don't come crying to me when they decide to crack down on the Irish and kick your arse out.

KidKeith89

I thought that this thread would get a near 50/50 split on who's pro- and anti-Sarkozy. It seems like I was wrong - a lot of people hate the Roma! I don't blame them, but calling these people "scum" and "parasitic" and "subhuman" is kinda pathetic imo. Although I do know that a lot of people have been robbed or troubled in some way by the Roma, and anyone can sympathize with these people who hate their guts.

What's a kid suppose to do who's brought up in a Roma family, stigmatized before he reaches the age of one? He's brought up by his family/community and taught to beg and rob. The kid has no chance of becoming a "decent, upstanding citizen" if he's born into that life and can't escape it. He'll be made to go out and rob and beg, so he probably won't have a chance to go to school, and he'll always be stigmatized by those around him. Who's gonna the that kinda person a job? Well none of this matters, I suppose, because they're innately evil and aren't even human!

But hey, I should probably clarify myself first: I'm just asking people to think about where these people are coming from, their backgrounds, etc. Wouldn't wanna be characterized as a "bleeding heart lefty liberal" who's tuned out of reality!

prinz

Nodin wrote: »

Obviously you're not remembering it that well.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056004789&page=20

Here's the relevant page. You didn't reply directly to me whatsoever. This post being particularly humourous..

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=68045364&postcount=294

The funny thing being the word unsuitable isn't used in the section of the memo I referred to at all. So your pal gizmo didn't understand it ( although I know where he got unsuitable from..... wait a second, it was from an earlier post by me clarifying the section )

Then you claim to be reading the wording carefully, if you had you would have noticed 'unsuitable' doesn't appear whatsoever? Pull the other one. Did you take care and read the memo yourself then? Did ya?

twinQuins

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

Well said man, 'bout time a bit of straight talking instead of lefty rubbish

Haha! Good one! For a second there I honestly thought you were serious.

Nodin

prinz wrote: »

Here's the relevant page. You didn't reply directly to me whatsoever.

...just like I said, you weren't remembering it correctly. Theres a live thread on the matter in the politics forum, feel free to chime in.

Hank Scorpio

Nodin wrote: »

But they aren't subhuman are they? Why not?

All those roma came here for one purpose and one purpose only to beg and steal , there a sub species to human for me. They planned it.

I'm in awe. What language were they speaking?

They were sitting on the path in the bus station and a auld one walked by and dropped money into one of there basket things. One of them followed the old woman and got more money out of her, turned around, showed the money and they started jeering. Do you really need a language to understand that?

I'm raising points based on what you've stated. Thats what happens on a message board.

Do you have roma drinking buddies or something you are trying to stand up for? I wudent leave a lit cigerette in the ashtray let alone my phone/wallet on the table in their company.

I lived away from home over the summer and my landlords sister owns and a petrol station. One night she was talking about the roma gypsies coming into the shop in huge crowds, and shoplifting whatever they could. Another thing they do is ask for a particular product and ask you to show it to them, in the same time another one of them is shop lifting while your distracted.

The shop down the road was done last summer too. About 20 of them came in and even managed to get into an office upstairs and rob it blind in the mayhem.

What makes you any different from me? I suppose all you want is a bit of a reaction from other keyboard warriors. If you really want to make a difference go write an article defending them, go buy a domain and build a little site and try and get a petition going. I dont know, do something, what your doing here is worthless.

I believe the majority of people think the same way as I do about these people, but I guess some let the others do the talking for them. If there was a vote in the morning IMO it would be like 95% if not more, what does your little opinion matter then? Absolutely nothing.

PPS

Loose the smug arrogent tone, its a internet forum

Dudess

KidKeith89 wrote: »

What's a kid suppose to do who's brought up in a Roma family, stigmatized before he reaches the age of one? He's brought up by his family/community and taught to beg and rob. The kid has no chance of becoming a "decent, upstanding citizen" if he's born into that life and can't escape it. He'll be made to go out and rob and beg, so he probably won't have a chance to go to school, and he'll always be stigmatized by those around him. Who's gonna the that kinda person a job? Well none of this matters, I suppose, because they're innately evil and aren't even human!

But hey, I should probably clarify myself first: I'm just asking people to think about where these people are coming from, their backgrounds, etc.

Oh haven't you heard? That kid needs to develop a sense of personal responsibility - according to people who have been afforded every opportunity and every privilege that he has not.

Seriously though, spot on. There is nothing "bleeding heart" (yawn) etc about the above - it's just logic and sense. And yeah, "get a job"? Being a Roma in and of itself kinda limits one's chances on that score.

FlutterinBantam

KidKeith89 wrote: »

I thought that this thread would get a near 50/50 split on who's pro- and anti-Sarkozy. It seems like I was wrong - a lot of people hate the Roma! I don't blame them, but calling these people "scum" and "parasitic" and "subhuman" is kinda pathetic imo. Although I do know that a lot of people have been robbed or troubled in some way by the Roma, and anyone can sympathize with these people who hate their guts.

What's a kid suppose to do who's brought up in a Roma family, stigmatized before he reaches the age of one? He's brought up by his family/community and taught to beg and rob. The kid has no chance of becoming a "decent, upstanding citizen" if he's born into that life and can't escape it. He'll be made to go out and rob and beg, so he probably won't have a chance to go to school, and he'll always be stigmatized by those around him. Who's gonna the that kinda person a job? Well none of this matters, I suppose, because they're innately evil and aren't even human!

But hey, I should probably clarify myself first: I'm just asking people to think about where these people are coming from, their backgrounds, etc. Wouldn't wanna be characterized as a "bleeding heart lefty liberal" who's tuned out of reality!

Incorrect, a lot of people hate the lifestyle of a group of people who contribute nothing, leech on everything and think they will slip under the radar of organized society.

If that description fits the Roma , well tough tittie pal.

Break yourself free and try to do something for yourself, instead of hiding behind the cloak of ethnicity and riding the taxpayers ragged as if they had no intelligence.

News for you , the taxpayer is running out of patience as demonstrated by France, and no amount of leftie rhetoric and propaganda and so called bleeding heart champions of any flyblown cause will change that.

John Q taxpayer is rightly pissed off supporting a group who, largely contribute nothing, and who are not slow to accept the benefits of society whilst ignoring the responsibilities and basically extending the middle finger to those of us who conform to societal norms.


They will get no sympathy from this poster.

FlutterinBantam

nuxxx wrote: »

All those roma came here for one purpose and one purpose only to beg and steal , there a sub species to human for me. They planned it.

They were sitting on the path in the bus station and a auld one walked by and dropped money into one of there basket things. One of them followed the old woman and got more money out of her, turned around, showed the money and they started jeering. Do you really need a language to understand that?


Do you have roma drinking buddies or something you are trying to stand up for? I wudent leave a lit cigerette in the ashtray let alone my phone/wallet on the table in their company.

I lived away from home over the summer and my landlords sister owns and a petrol station. One night she was talking about the roma gypsies coming into the shop in huge crowds, and shoplifting whatever they could. Another thing they do is ask for a particular product and ask you to show it to them, in the same time another one of them is shop lifting while your distracted.

The shop down the road was done last summer too. About 20 of them came in and even managed to get into an office upstairs and rob it blind in the mayhem.

What makes you any different from me? I suppose all you want is a bit of a reaction from other keyboard warriors. If you really want to make a difference go write an article defending them, go buy a domain and build a little site and try and get a petition going. I dont know, do something, what your doing here is worthless.

I believe the majority of people think the same way as I do about these people, but I guess some let the others do the talking for them. If there was a vote in the morning IMO it would be like 95% if not more, what does your little opinion matter then? Absolutely nothing.

PPS

Loose the smug arrogent tone, its a internet forum

Well said there, ignore the bleeding hearts pal.

Bunch of goons from country X will arrive on our shores soon and rob and raid the place blind.

You will have people like this defending them.

dearie me.