The BIG medicinal cannabis discussion

seensensee

penguin88 wrote: »

Cannabis is currently in schedule 1 (considered to have no medical benefit and high abuse potential). By moving perhaps some of the chemicals it contains to Schedule 2, it would allow medical use with comparable controls to a doctor prescribing morphine for example.

Yet again I must reiterate that your proposal is unrealistic due to the fact that cannabis is not an opiate or "hard drug" "dangerous drug", those drugs are assigned to schedule 2.
Isolating a few chemicals does not go far enough to provide the quality and choice that all medicinal marijuana patients require.
Check out the links to observe what an established legal service provides...
http://www.cannabisdispensary.ca/
http://mdgmedicalmarijuana.com/index.htm

fergalr

R_H_C_P wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...278568389.html

Ms Harney has sought legal advice on the effectiveness of the drug for the treatment of such conditions as multiple sclerosis and certain forms of cancer.

If I were the Minister for Health, I would seek medical advice on that question instead. Just saying.

plenty of it around. Go search google and you'll see how much research is done.

I was pointing out the absurdity of trying to get legal advice on whether something was medically effective.
Whether or not the drug is an effective treatment of cancer is not something you can get legal advice on.

Because its not a legal question. You can't pass a law that makes it ineffective as a treatment, etc.

Kurtosis

seensensee wrote: »

Yet again I must reiterate that your proposal is unrealistic due to the fact that cannabis is not an opiate or "hard drug" "dangerous drug", those drugs are assigned to schedule 2.

There's only one proposal being discussed here that seems to be unrealistic, and it definitely isn't mine. Do you know what difference it makes having it classified as Schedule 2 as opposed to 3 or 4? Very little to the patient, it's more to with regulatory controls about prescriptions, storage and dispensing. The classification is not to do with being "hard" or "dangerous", it's supposed to be based on abuse potential. Judging by some of the responses here and Gordon McArdle's act, cannabis-based medicines would be liable for abuse.

Isolating a few chemicals does not go far enough to provide the quality and choice that all medicinal marijuana patients require.

Why not? Do you think it's not going far enough to prescribe morphine for someone in pain, and that they should be provided with opium instead?

Borneo Fnctn

Stev_o wrote: »

So we want to compound chronic pain by saying well if you do manage to get over this there's a chance that we may have done a good bit of damage to your lungs aswell?

Nobody experiences pain from smoking chronic.;)

seensensee

penguin88 wrote: »

There's only one proposal being discussed here that seems to be unrealistic, and it definitely isn't mine. Do you know what difference it makes having it classified as Schedule 2 as opposed to 3 or 4? Very little to the patient, it's more to with regulatory controls about prescriptions, storage and dispensing. The classification is not to do with being "hard" or "dangerous", it's supposed to be based on abuse potential. Judging by some of the responses here and Gordon McArdle's act, cannabis-based medicines would be liable for abuse.



Why not? Do you think it's not going far enough to prescribe morphine for someone in pain, and that they should be provided with opium instead?

Can you provide links to substantiate your claim on abuse potential? The misuse of drugs act classifies according to type and they all can be abused.

I am not familiar with prescribed opiate use but to suggest that it is given to patients who are terminally ill or perhaps for some temporary condition, I imagine there would be problems with increased tolerance (potential lethal) and physical dependency in long term use.

Cannabis targets pain in a completely different way within the patients body, it has more of a curing effect than a numbing opiate effect, for example the patient who uses cannabis to treat muscle spasms benefits primarily by having the muscles relaxed.
Tolerance is not an Issue with the cannabis as patients regulate the type and variety.

silwyth88

Wompa1 wrote: »

It's only good if its a better system than California. As in not every Tom, Dick and Harry can go in and get prescribed it for some bogus cause. e.g. Snoop Dogg suffering from f'kin anxiety!

I have never ever heard before that it cures cancer, aids or arthiritus...pardon the pun but it sounds like someones blowing smoke up our asses

People are getting very worked up over this, Wompa you should research the statistics, its more of an aid to get through cancer than a CURE, whereas chemotherapy leaves people unable to eat and sleep etc, marijuana completely ease it. Marijuana is a natural plant. An actual plant. last time a plant tried to kill you?

Kurtosis

seensensee wrote: »

Can you provide links to substantiate your claim on abuse potential? The misuse of drugs act classifies according to type and they all can be abused.

It is not done by type. While some broad classes of drug may be in the same schedule due their similar pharmacological action and effects, each chemical is assigned to a schedule based on how liable they are to be misused.

Schedule 2 contains most opiates (pentazocine is Sch 3, due to its activity it produces less of a euphoric effect), cocaine, amphetamines and one barbituate.

Schedule 3 contains other barbituates, some minor stimulants and two benzodiazepines (flunitrazepam and temazepam, two of the most widely misused, other benzo's are Sch 4).

Some Sch. 2 agents e.g. codeine, when in certain products (i.e. low dose, in combination with another limiting active ingredient like paracetamol) is less liable to abuse and so are less regulated as Schedule 5.

This is all going off on a tangent though. Cannabis is currently Schedule 1, along with the likes of khat, mescaline, psilocin. My point was the most direct way of allowing medicinal use of cannabis is to downgrade it or some of its constituents from Schedule 1 to another schedule. Nothing in the current scheduling system to not make this possible

Cannabis targets pain in a completely different way within the patients body, it has more of a curing effect than a numbing opiate effect, for example the patient who uses cannabis to treat muscle spasms benefits primarily by having the muscles relaxed.
Tolerance is not an Issue with the cannabis as patients regulate the type and variety.

I don't really know what point you're trying to make here. Is this trying to justify having fewer restrictions on cannabis as a medicine than morphine or benzodiazepines?

Pace2008

silwyth88 wrote: »

People are getting very worked up over this, Wompa you should research the statistics, its more of an aid to get through cancer than a CURE, whereas chemotherapy leaves people unable to eat and sleep etc, marijuana completely ease it. Marijuana is a natural plant. An actual plant. last time a plant tried to kill you?

Datura is a plant some brave/stupid souls attempt to use as a recreational drug. A few seeds will leave you completely insane for several days, partially sighted for significantly longer, and it does indeed have the potential to kill you. I'm sure if I took a venture into the rainforest I'd find plenty of foliage even more hellbent on doing me harm.

On a more local level, you could take a tumble into a bed of nettles to test your hypothesis about the apparent harmlessness of plants.

As far as recreational drugs go, cannabis isn't particularly dangerous, but this has nothing to do with it being a plant.

Kurtosis

silwyth88 wrote: »

People are getting very worked up over this, Wompa you should research the statistics, its more of an aid to get through cancer than a CURE, whereas chemotherapy leaves people unable to eat and sleep etc, marijuana completely ease it. Marijuana is a natural plant. An actual plant. last time a plant tried to kill you?

You do know a number of chemotherapy drugs come from plants, right?

seensensee

penguin88 wrote: »

I don't really know what point you're trying to make here. Is this trying to justify having fewer restrictions on cannabis as a medicine than morphine or benzodiazepines?

Not possible, both groups are dispensed according to stringent guidelines.
I got the impression that you were developing an association between cannabis and opiates to some degree since you keep referring to opiates on Cannabis threads and I endevour to point out that their are major differences in how the drugs function. it's not all about pain relief.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medical_cannabis#Spasticity_in_multiple_sclerosis

Kurtosis

seensensee wrote: »

Not possible, both groups are dispensed according to stringent guidelines.
I got the impression that you were developing an association between cannabis and opiates to some degree since you keep referring to opiates on Cannabis threads and I endevour to point out that their are major differences in how the drugs function. it's not all about pain relief.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medical_cannabis#Spasticity_in_multiple_sclerosis

Oh no sorry, I'm not trying to relate their actual pharmacological activity at all. The only reason I brought up opioids was as an example of another groups of chemicals that are controlled by the Misuse of Drugs Act that are also derived from a plant source.

seensensee

penguin88 wrote: »

Oh no sorry, I'm not trying to relate their actual pharmacological activity at all. The only reason I brought up opioids was as an example of another groups of chemicals that are controlled by the Misuse of Drugs Act that are also derived from a plant source.

Fair enough and a valid point, I certainly don't have all the correct answers in the debate but I will point out that drugs on schedule 2 have the potential to be lethal and thus does not seem appropriate to put Cannabis there.
A new Cannabis schedule will do justice to the situation.

Cheers.

Irishcrx

I'd be willing to be that all that anti-cannabis hero's on this thread would quickly change their mind on it if they are ever struck down with something as painfull as cancer or a similar illness and struggled to down their 12 pain pills every couple of hours. You'd soon enough very much see a differant side to it than stupid teenage stoners and actually appreciate that people saw sence a few years ago to give you the option to take it or not.

This bill won't force it on anybody but will be a massive step forward for people who may need/want this medication. And yes I do smoke it myself.

But i'm taking this from expierience of seeing what people I cared about had to got through when they were ill with all them "Pain" pills some making them worst...guess which one worked best!

Metalhead Fred

chops1990 wrote: »

Cannabis in itself is harmless, it's when its smoked with tobacco its harmful.

Don't be stupid. Smoking ANYTHING is harmful.

Marijuana actually emits a lot more tar than tobacco, when burnt. However, that tar isn't as carcinogenic as that found in tobacco.

The least harmful ways to consume marijuana is through a vaporiser or cooking it in food.

Even at that, cannabis can be harmful. It's a drug and can be abused. Moderation is key.

Mike 1972

Stev_o wrote: »

So we want to compound chronic pain by saying well if you do manage to get over this there's a chance that we may have done a good bit of damage to your lungs aswell?

NEWSFLASH

There are ways to ingest cannabis besides smoking it

Samba

KnifeWRENCH wrote: »

Nice to know she has SOME credible ideas then. Full legalisation (á la Netherlands) is probably a long way off, but I see no reason why it shouldn't be legalised for medicinal purposes.

Funny to think though that the same Government that went ridiculously over the top in slapping a blanket ban on headshop products is now considering legalising medicinal cannabis.

Because there's little research as to the side effects of what was being sold, because there was 0 regulation in the market, because they weren't in the financial loop and finally because Joe Duffy said so and by god, you better listen to Joe!

I'm delighted these cowboy operations were shut down tbh, we've no idea of what the long term side effects could have been with such wide spread use amongst the younger population of Ireland. Each time a new chemical was banned a substitute came along and again, do you think people profiting from these chemicals gave a crap about what they did to your body or mind?

The legalisation of medicinal cannabis is an entirely different kettle of fish.

The scientific research is readily available, it would be strictly regulated and the government would undoubtedly benefit financially from such a move.

Can you tell me what benefits the head shops had? Just before you say, "well I stopped using street dealers" and my money was not going to the black market. Head shops were more or less dealers operating within the grey areas of the law, where did they get their stock from? Who supplied them? I'm sure if you followed the paper trail of a head shop, that it wouldn't lead to some rosy field where the sun always shines and people hold hands and make daisy chains all day. Quite the opposite.

People have a notion that because you were walking into a shop and they had a counter and till that everything behind the scenes was legit! You've no idea who or where the products were being supplied from and who were behind these suppliers.

If this proposed change of legislation gains momentum, mark my words - there will be a Joe Duffy show where people suffering from illnesses that can benefit from medicinal marijuana, will be on air telling their story of how beneficial it can be and the nation will be sold on the idea

King Felix

Mike 1972 wrote: »

NEWSFLASH

There are ways to ingest cannabis besides smoking it

There's nothing like snorting a good line of indica.

Lone Stone

I hope we get it then my i wont have go through the hassle of getting hash for my mother who has ms. It really helps a lot we need medical cannabis.

old gregg

Mike 1972 wrote: »

NEWSFLASH

There are ways to ingest cannabis besides smoking it

for example

raah!

Medicinal use is the furthest thing from your minds you scallywags! Don't beat around the bush.

It's not like people spend time arguing about other drugs used in medecine, that's really a very specific area of discussion quite removed from the public scope. The only reason this thread exists is because people like to smoke weed in their spare time.

seensensee

raah! wrote: »

Medicinal use is the furthest thing from your minds you scallywags! Don't beat around the bush.

It's not like people spend time arguing about other drugs used in medecine, that's really a very specific area of discussion quite removed from the public scope. The only reason this thread exists is because people like to smoke weed in their spare time.

There are many reasons why this thread exisits, primarily because the government has announced an intended u turn in policy regarding MC. Posters here have argued that other drugs fail to treat specific illnesses as effectively and satisfactorily in the way cannabis does. I support legalisation of MC so that it is available to those who require the medicine.

You really did'nt give your post much thought, did you? but don't worry you are not alone, up till recently the government would'nt give the issue due consideration either.

raah!

No, no I did not

Lone Stone

I was going to make a video and put it on youtube for this thread of my mother her legg's shoot out and cant bend and go hard as a rock and can take ages to relax but after a few pulls on a spliff they completely relax and she sit properly. All the medication docotors put her on do practically nothing yet a few pulls on a spliff and it makes a major difference. But i left all my equipment down in my new house so i cant do it now but im sure there has to be simaler video's like that online somewhere.

If the issue of MC doesnt affect you or anyone you know you have no right to oppose it because it affects you in no way unless you make money selling it yourself.

King Felix

King Felix wrote: »

There's nothing like snorting a good line of indica.

hehehe!

Whisko

Cannabis does not cause schizophrenia. Susceptible people are more likely to self medicate with cannabis causing a slight increase in schizophrenia development among cannabis smokers. Studies have found that schizophrenia has not increased along with the rise in cannabis use.

Correlation does not mean causation.

Stop reading the daily mail.

seensensee

I don't read the daily mail but I have seen countless references to schizophrenia being caused by cannabis, so taking it a step further we can read some scientific studies to back up the claims and what do we find?
It appears that THC can induce schizophrenic symptoms, hallucinations and delusions... 2005
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15780846
http://bjp.rcpsych.org/cgi/content/full/bjprcpsych;192/4/306

Of course we must bare in mind that the above trials were monitoring the effect of THC alone, how does this compare with the everyday individual who uses herbal cannabis? maybe much the same when you consider...
"There are different strains of cannabis out there and many no longer contain cannabidiol. In fact, these have been deliberately bred out to enhance the THC content,"
http://www.physorg.com/news154280470.html

But then what happens is that further research is conducted and we now see that THC can improve the symptoms of schizophrenia...2009
"A possible new role for cannabinoids in the treatment of schizophrenia."
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19440079

It's no wonder there is confusion surrounding cannabis but wait we have only looked at THC in isolation, how about CBD?...
"Recent studies have shown cannabidiol to be as effective as atypical anti psychotics in treating schizophrenia"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannabidiol
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20218784

So overall what have we got?
I've got to give some credence to the Idea that people who have a predisposition for schizophrenia may suffer symptoms by using cannabis which is high in THC but devoid of CBD, in fact any individual who uses a high volume of THC only cannabis may be at risk of experiencing schizoid symptoms, it's possible, it has been observed in clinical trials, I cannot deny what I have read. The issue here is in recognising that there are many different forms of cannabis, the medical world finds great benefit from those varieties which are bred to have high levels of CBD, an Individual who has schizoid tendencies would be well advised to stay away from the THC and go for the CBD, virtually impossible in a prohibitive society. That is why it is of great importance that our government sort out the legality framework so patients who use cannabis for their illnesses can gain access to the variety which cures them without any unnecessary side effects.


ETA : just to add some balance from an academic point of view..


Science: The development of the number of new SCHIZOPHRENIA cases in the UK does not support the hypothesis that cannabis use increases SCHIZOPHRENIA risk

According to research of scientists at Keele University in Staffordshire, UK, the incidence (the number of new diagnosed cases) of SCHIZOPHRENIA in the years 1996 to 2005 does not support the hypothesis that cannabis use increases the risk for the development of SCHIZOPHRENIA or psychosis. For this study an analysis of data from 183 practices in England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland was conducted. The study cohort comprised almost 600,000 patients each year, representing approximately 2.3 per cent of the UK population aged 16 to 44. Between 1996 and 2005 the incidence of SCHIZOPHRENIA and psychoses were either stable or declining.

A recently published study found that cannabis use increased fourfold between 1972 and 2002 and 18-fold among people under 18 years of age. If the risk of SCHIZOPHRENIA is elevated 1.8-fold among light users and 3.1-fold among heavy users as suggested by another study, and assuming an elevated risk for 20 years, an increase in SCHIZOPHRENIA incidence of 29 per cent would have been expected between 1996 and 2005. Researchers concluded that "the causal models linking cannabis with SCHIZOPHRENIA/psychoses are not supported by this study" and that "the underlying causes of SCHIZOPHRENIA/psychoses remained stable/declined over the study period."

(Source: Frisher M, Crome I, Martino O, Croft P. Assessing the impact of cannabis use on trends in diagnosed SCHIZOPHRENIA in the United Kingdom from 1996 to 2005. Schizophr Res. 2009 Jun 26. [Electronic publication ahead of print])
http://www.cannabis-med.org/english/bulletin/ww_en_db_cannabis_artikel.php?id=299&search_pattern=schizophrenia#2

CorkMan

What amazes me is how cannibis is illegal yet you have anti-depressants, valium, and, namely anti-psychotics which REALLY f**k you up, but they are handed out like sweeties by psychiatrists.

Allow people to have cannabis, what harm can it do? None IMO. In Holland they legalised it to stop people from having to go to the dealers, the same dealers who pump cocaine, heroine, etc. I have never smoked cannabis here, only when i'm in Holland to see my cousin.

It isn't as bad as some people think. It's a lot less "harmful" than some sleepers that some GP's give out like smarties.

seensensee

Cannabinoids against super bacteria

20.

20th

September 2008, 19:02

September 2008, 7:02 p.m.

Substances have been shown in laboratory tests as an effective means

Rovigo - Scientists at the agricultural experimental station Cra-Cin in Rovigo and the Università del Piemonte Orientale in Novara have studied the antibacterial effect of cannabinoids in more detail.

They have, in cooperation with the School of Pharmacy in London carried out laboratory tests showed that the transformation products of the hemp plant can be used against hyperresistente bacteria.

Wirksames Mittel

Effective means

"The produce of the cannabis cannabinoids THC, CBD, proving CBG, CBC and CBN to be effective against the spread especially in hospitals Super bacteria" says the institute's director Enrico Biancardi. "This applies in particular to the staphylococcal strains EMERSA-15 and EMERSA-16 that are highly resistant to antibiotics.

In constant contact with antibiotics were allowed changes in the genetic material that the bacteria do indestructible permanent.

In the course of three years of investigations it was also found that the cannabis substances at the CBD and CBG against penicillin-resistant bacteria that are especially efficient.

Details of the discovery of Italian researchers and their British colleagues, were published in the Journal of Natural Products ".

(pte/red)

(Pte / red)

Abstract

Abstract

Journal of Natural Products: Antibacterial Cannabinoids from Cannabis sativa : A Structure-Activity Study

Journal of Natural Products: Antibacterial Cannabinoids from Cannabis sativa: A Structure-Activity Study

charlemont

CorkMan wrote: »

What amazes me is how cannibis is illegal yet you have anti-depressants, valium, and, namely anti-psychotics which REALLY f**k you up, but they are handed out like sweeties by psychiatrists.

Allow people to have cannabis, what harm can it do? None IMO. In Holland they legalised it to stop people from having to go to the dealers, the same dealers who pump cocaine, heroine, etc. I have never smoked cannabis here, only when i'm in Holland to see my cousin.

It isn't as bad as some people think. It's a lot less "harmful" than some sleepers that some GP's give out like smarties.

so true and most crime in this country is related to the legal medication, doctors are the real drug dealers..

seensensee

[FONT=arial,helvetica][SIZE=+1] Pot Might Blunt Damage of Binge Drinking [/SIZE][/FONT]


[FONT=arial,helvetica][SIZE=-1] FRIDAY, Aug. 21 (HealthDay News) -- Marijuana may buffer the brain against the damages of binge drinking, a new study suggests.
Researchers from the University of California, San Diego, used high-tech scans to compare microscopic changes in brain white matter in teens aged 16 to 19 who were divided into three groups: binge drinkers (boys who consume five or more drinks at one sitting, and girls who have four or more drinks); binge drinkers who also smoked marijuana; and a control group with little or no experience with either alcohol or drugs.
As expected, the binge drinkers showed signs of white matter damage in all eight brain regions examined by the researchers. But the binge drinkers/marijuana users had less damage in seven out of the eight brain regions than the binge drinkers did. And compared to the control group, the binge drinkers/marijuana users had more white matter damage in only three regions.
The researchers wrote that brain white matter tracts were "more coherent in adolescents who binge drink and use marijuana than in adolescents who report only binge drinking." They said it's "possible that marijuana may have some neuroprotective properties in mitigating alcohol-related oxidative stress or excitotoxic cell death."
The study appears in the current issue of the journal Neurotoxicology and Teratology.
"This study suggests that not only is marijuana safer than alcohol, it may actually protect against some of the damage that booze causes," Steve Fox, director of state campaigns for the Marijuana Policy Project, said in a news release from the project.
"It's far better for teens not to drink or smoke marijuana, but our nation's leaders send a dangerous message by defending laws that encourage the use of alcohol over marijuana," he added.
More information
[/SIZE][/FONT]http://www.statesman.com/health/content/shared-auto/healthnews/kalc/630296.html