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The BIG medicinal cannabis discussion

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    #62
    ScumLord
    Registered Users Posts: 28,789 ✭✭✭✭ScumLord


    chops1990 wrote: »
    Well the most it'll do to ya is nothing tobacco wouldn't, lung issues and the like. Of course it's unhealthy to inhale smoke, but the use of it should be left up to individuals and not just automatically decided by the few elite and powerful in society (Government) because they've some other agenda.
    Smoking cannabis isn't in any way medical.

    Patients would need to use a vaporizer for instant effect, cooking and oil for lasting effects.


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    #63
    Pace2008
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,587 ✭✭✭Pace2008


    thebigbiffo wrote: »
    what are it's physically bad side effects?
    I'm assuming this is supposed to be a rhetorical question.

    The physical side-effects aren't really severe. There's some risk of respiratory complications that could be expected from inhaling burning plant material, but not much more that I could think of off the top of my head.

    There's more concern about the potential psychological effects of regular consumption. There's no denying that there's at least a correlation between heavy smoking and prevalence of mental illness like schizophrenia, though no causal link has been proven. It's also been suggested that smoking can trigger latent mental illnesses.

    Weed also seems to sit badly with people who have a predisposition towards being lazy, turning them into completely demotivated wasters.

    I suppose the increased danger of road traffic accidents caused by people driving under the influence has to be considered a risk factor as well.

    Not the worst drug in the world by any means, not one I think should be criminalised, but not completely harmless either.


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    #64
    chops1990
    Registered Users Posts: 210 ✭✭chops1990


    ScumLord wrote: »
    Smoking cannabis isn't in any way medical.

    Then where would be the benefit in legalizing it for medical purposes?


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    #65
    Pace2008
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,587 ✭✭✭Pace2008


    chops1990 wrote: »
    Then where would be the benefit in legalizing it for medical purposes?
    Read his post again. The key word is "smoking."


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    #66
    chops1990
    Registered Users Posts: 210 ✭✭chops1990


    Pace2008 wrote: »
    There's no denying that there's at least a correlation between heavy smoking and prevalence of mental illness like schizophrenia, though no causal link has been proven. It's also been suggested that smoking can trigger latent mental illnesses.

    Weed also seems to sit badly with people who have a predisposition towards being lazy, turning them into completely demotivated wasters.

    Not tryin to nit pick here but did you notice the words you've used? "suggested" "no casual link proven" "seems". I mean it's harldy hard concrete evidence that it's actually harmful


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    #67
    chops1990
    Registered Users Posts: 210 ✭✭chops1990


    Pace2008 wrote: »
    Read his post again. The key word is "smoking."

    Man I gotta learn to read lol


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    #68
    Mike 1972
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,018 ✭✭✭Mike 1972


    EU to discuss legalising medicinal cannabis in Ireland

    Er surely if the EU are discussing it then if adopted it will apply in all 27 EU countries not just Ireland :confused:


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    #69
    Pace2008
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,587 ✭✭✭Pace2008


    chops1990 wrote: »
    Not tryin to nit pick here but did you notice the words you've used? "suggested" "no casual link proven" "seems". I mean it's harldy hard concrete evidence that it's actually harmful
    Those words were chosen intentionally. It's possible but not certain that cannabis can have adverse effects of the mental health of certain individuals, and until it's been given the all clear in this regard I wouldn't describe it as harmless. It's an area of ongoing study and dispute.

    Like I said, as far as drugs go it's not too bad at all. It only seems to be in heavy smokers that these adverse conditions seem to manifest themselves. I don't think weekend smokers like me have too much to worry about.


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    #70
    Yakult
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 7,941 Mod ✭✭✭✭Yakult


    I think it would be great tbh.
    Few family members suffer from arthritis so I could shhhmoke on with them while listening to Bob Marley. Win for all.


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    #71
    chops1990
    Registered Users Posts: 210 ✭✭chops1990


    Good point never thought bout that. Can they make laws for individual countries only to follow? I'm not sure...


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    #72
    Craebear
    Registered Users Posts: 458 ✭✭Craebear


    Once again the EU takes the initiative and trys to drag our sorry asses further out of the dark ages.


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    #73
    thebigbiffo
    Registered Users Posts: 2,941 ✭✭✭thebigbiffo


    Pace2008 wrote: »
    I'm assuming this is supposed to be a rhetorical question.

    The physical side-effects aren't really severe. There's some risk of respiratory complications that could be expected from inhaling burning plant material, but not much more that I could think of off the top of my head.

    There's more concern about the potential psychological effects of regular consumption. There's no denying that there's at least a correlation between heavy smoking and prevalence of mental illness like schizophrenia, though no causal link has been proven. It's also been suggested that smoking can trigger latent mental illnesses.

    Weed also seems to sit badly with people who have a predisposition towards being lazy, turning them into completely demotivated wasters.

    I suppose the increased danger of road traffic accidents caused by people driving under the influence has to be considered a risk factor as well.

    Not the worst drug in the world by any means, not one I think should be criminalised, but not completely harmless either.

    I'll answer your first question...no.

    and although i do see your point i'd be more along the lines of telling people that, yes, cannabis IS in fact quite harmless (especially when used as a medicine) - this doesn't take away from the point at all.

    it's adverse physical effects are practically nil and certainly there are no studies that put it's smoking up there with any tobacco in terms of damage to the respitory system, in fact i read a study that it can in effect help the lungs by opening capilliaries - it is in fact becoming a very popular self administered drug amongst asthmatics!

    on the mental health side: i'm still of the opinion it can be described as harmless. many different factors can help bring underlying mental health issues to the surface - apart from the alcohol being the obvious comparison, there's the prescriptions even so far down as anti-biotics and especially anti-depressants, drugs for acne and giving up smoking etc. and no body bats an eyelid about these - they're considered harmless until that one in 100,000 people have an adverse reaction - the same criteria should be used to speak about cannabis here.

    i'll qualify the above though by saying super strenght skunk and the like should never be administered. it's very very easy to classify cannabis products and the various strains and strenghts and the likely effect upon the individual in question - in the same way that someone has been to their doctor with minor mental health problems will not prescribe certain (harmless, in other circumstance) drugs...


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    #74
    TPD
    Registered Users Posts: 7,814 ✭✭✭TPD


    With regards to the cannabis/schizophrenia debate, I found this link, may be worth a read.

    http://loopylettuce.wordpress.com/2010/01/04/marijuana-myth-pot-increases-the-risk-of-schizophrenia/


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    #75
    Pace2008
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,587 ✭✭✭Pace2008


    TPD wrote: »
    With regards to the cannabis/schizophrenia debate, I found this link, may be worth a read.

    http://loopylettuce.wordpress.com/2010/01/04/marijuana-myth-pot-increases-the-risk-of-schizophrenia/
    I'd like to believe this, but I'm not sure if we're going to be getting completely nonpartisan information from loopy lettuce, which seems to be a very pro-cannabis site. I'll have a look the sources later if I get a chance.


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    #76
    seensensee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 386 ✭✭seensensee


    Mike 1972 wrote: »
    Er surely if the EU are discussing it then if adopted it will apply in all 27 EU countries not just Ireland :confused:

    Here in Ireland cannabis is legislated for under the misuse of drugs act and is classified as a "schedule 1" drug, i.e. a drug with no medical benefit.

    Our guys have to change the legislation so that cannabis is moved off the schedule 1 list and onto one which other EU countries use to provide for medicinal cannabis.
    It applies in many EU states already so our guys have to go to Europe to take a crash course in seeing how it's done.


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    #77
    TPD
    Registered Users Posts: 7,814 ✭✭✭TPD


    Pace2008 wrote: »
    I'd like to believe this, but I'm not sure if we're going to be getting completely nonpartisan information from loopy lettuce, which seems to be a very pro-cannabis site. I'll have a look the sources later if I get a chance.

    I approached it with the same scepticism, thats why I didn't run into the thread laughing and calling you all fools and showing how wrong you are :P

    I did find an article about a year ago that indicated those with schizophrenia are more prone to try cannabis and other drugs, rather than the drug use causing/exacerbating the schizophrenia. I was looking for that when I found the loopy lettuce one.


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    #78
    bleg
    Registered Users Posts: 5,848 ✭✭✭bleg


    Would people be campaigning for the legalisation of a drug with proven adverse reactions if it didn't get them high?


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    #79
    seensensee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 386 ✭✭seensensee


    bleg wrote: »
    Would people be campaigning for the legalisation of a drug with proven adverse reactions if it didn't get them high?

    Medical marijuana without the high already exists...

    "A new version of medical marijuana is creating a buzz, just not with patients. By manipulating a specific chemical, growers and drug companies are creating a generation of cannabis products designed to treat pain, without giving users a high"
    http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?section=news/health&id=7583306

    The recent government initiative is less to do with what campaigners want but more to do with the wishes of big pharma and the UN.


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    #80
    Mike 1972
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,018 ✭✭✭Mike 1972


    bleg wrote: »
    Would people be campaigning for the legalisation of a drug with proven adverse reactions

    Name me a drug which doesnt cause any adverse reactions for anyone which uses it


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    #81
    bleg
    Registered Users Posts: 5,848 ✭✭✭bleg


    seensensee wrote: »
    Medical marijuana without the high already exists...

    "A new version of medical marijuana is creating a buzz, just not with patients. By manipulating a specific chemical, growers and drug companies are creating a generation of cannabis products designed to treat pain, without giving users a high"
    http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?section=news/health&id=7583306

    The recent government initiative is less to do with what campaigners want but more to do with the wishes of big pharma and the UN.


    Yes and there's the sub-lingual spray as well. That's not my point though, let me put it this way: the only reason many people are voicing their support for the leaglisation for medicinal marijuana is because they see it as a means to get the drug completely legalised so that they can enjoy the high, rather than any compassion for people suffering from pain.


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    #82
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 2,874 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    bleg wrote: »
    ...they see it as a means to get the drug completely legalised so that they can enjoy the high, rather than any compassion for people suffering from pain.

    Cant it be both? Pain relief for some, recreational use for others


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    #83
    Mr Benevolent
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,456 ✭✭✭✭Mr Benevolent


    Funnily enough, the only thing similar to Class A drugs that're both legal and free is methadone. Makes the legalisation of cannabis seem like a non-event.


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    #84
    seensensee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 386 ✭✭seensensee


    bleg wrote: »
    Yes and there's the sub-lingual spray as well. That's not my point though, let me put it this way: the only reason many people are voicing their support for the leaglisation for medicinal marijuana is because they see it as a means to get the drug completely legalised so that they can enjoy the high, rather than any compassion for people suffering from pain.

    Surely those same people want marijuana made available for medicinal and recreational purposes? after all we read about many countries where it's available (decriminalised) as such, where's the problem?

    We don't expect cannabis to be legalised for recreational purposes but realise that tomorrow it may be us who are in desperate need of the medicinal.


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    #85
    Owwmykneecap
    Registered Users Posts: 2,237 ✭✭✭Owwmykneecap


    Confab wrote: »
    Funnily enough, the only thing similar to Class A drugs that're both legal and free is methadone. Makes the legalisation of cannabis seem like a non-event.

    Diamorphine (heroin) is used in hospitals for terminal cancer patients and the like.


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    #86
    BrockSamson
    Closed Accounts Posts: 35 ✭BrockSamson


    I am 30 years old and i suffer from arthritis. The medication i use at the moment has a lot of side effects and is a horrible drug.


    The most common side effects are stomach pain, diarrhoea, dyspepsia, nausea and flatulence. Diarrhea and abdominal pain .

    I have tried medical grade weed in a vaporizer only a very small amount and is far more effective than my current medication and without the side effects.

    I could get weed from drug dealers but it would be a lottery either the weed would be contaminated or would be the wrong type e.g. sativa for recreational use which would be of no use to me as its a head high

    A medical grade indica weed is what would benefit my condition and have no nasty side effects.


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    #87
    Kurtosis
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 2,881 Mod ✭✭✭✭Kurtosis


    Mike 1972 wrote: »
    Name me a drug which doesnt cause any adverse reactions for anyone which uses it

    No such thing. I think the mention of adverse reactions was more in reference to the claim that cannabis was harmless.


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    #88
    seensensee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 386 ✭✭seensensee


    BrockSamson wrote: »
    I am 30 years old and i suffer from arthritis. The medication i use at the moment has a lot of side effects and is a horrible drug.


    The most common side effects are stomach pain, diarrhoea, dyspepsia, nausea and flatulence. Diarrhea and abdominal pain .

    I have tried medical grade weed in a vaporizer only a very small amount and is far more effective than my current medication and without the side effects.

    I could get weed from drug dealers but it would be a lottery either the weed would be contaminated or would be the wrong type e.g. sativa for recreational use which would be of no use to me as its a head high

    A medical grade indica weed is what would benefit my condition and have no nasty side effects.


    I am sorry to hear of your condition but am glad that you found what medicine is best for you. Lets hope that today's meeting turns out to be a success.

    I have just joined "hempirl"...
    http://hempirl.webs.com/apps/blog/entries/show/4138604-ireland-s-first-proposal-for-medical-cannabis-law-coming-
    It seems they are the campaigners who have met with the minister for drugs today.
    They say to spread the word so here it is, you are invited to visit the site and join up.

    Cheers.


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    #89
    Elevator
    Closed Accounts Posts: 844 ✭✭✭Elevator


    very good news, best of luck to those involved :)


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    #90
    seensensee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 386 ✭✭seensensee


    Elevator wrote: »
    very good news, best of luck to those involved :)

    I agree, of course it's quite possible that the minister may refuse hempirl's request and so the movement may require further support, that's where you come in ;)


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    #91
    starbelgrade
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,739 ✭✭✭✭starbelgrade


    BrockSamson wrote: »
    I am 30 years old and i suffer from arthritis. The medication i use at the moment has a lot of side effects and is a horrible drug.


    The most common side effects are stomach pain, diarrhoea, dyspepsia, nausea and flatulence. Diarrhea and abdominal pain .

    I have tried medical grade weed in a vaporizer only a very small amount and is far more effective than my current medication and without the side effects.

    I could get weed from drug dealers but it would be a lottery either the weed would be contaminated or would be the wrong type e.g. sativa for recreational use which would be of no use to me as its a head high

    A medical grade indica weed is what would benefit my condition and have no nasty side effects.



    You should grow your own. It's a relatively easy plant to grow & quite hardy if you get the right seed variety.


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