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The BIG medicinal cannabis discussion

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    #32
    chops1990
    Registered Users Posts: 210 ✭✭chops1990


    Wompa1 wrote: »
    I have never ever heard before that it cures cancer, aids or arthiritus...pardon the pun but it sounds like someones blowing smoke up our asses

    I don't think anyone made out it cures cancer, aids or arthiritus, simply that it alleviates the symptoms people suffer from these illnesses


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    #33
    Logical Fallacy
    Registered Users Posts: 5,933 ✭✭✭Logical Fallacy


    LiNgWiStIkZ wrote: »
    What??

    I didn't say anything about falsifying any medical issues. I just made the point that nobody has to go to the black market to treat their illness, as they can get it from their GP (that is if this is passed)

    :confused::confused:

    Ah my bad, i completely misinterpreted your post.

    Apologies!:o


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    #34
    Sanjuro
    Registered Users Posts: 4,236 ✭✭✭Sanjuro


    OH WONT SOMEBODY PLEASE THINK OF THE CHILDREN??!!


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    #35
    philologos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,479 ✭✭✭✭philologos


    ScumLord wrote: »
    Your bringing in bureaucracy into it now and restricting medical care based on a persons past. I don't see why people feel the need to ensure certain people get sustained punishment for things they feel are wrong. The only person who should decide what drugs a person is prescribed is their doctor.

    I have doubts that the doctor would prescribe enough for the patient to sell. If that patient was genuinely in need of the cannabis, they wouldn't sell it either.

    More than likely there will be legal limits on how much the doctor can prescribe with penalties in the case of abuse.


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    #36
    jackiebaron
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,038 ✭✭✭jackiebaron


    k_mac wrote: »
    If they have a conviction for selling drugs I dont see why they should be given stuff to sell.

    That has to be the stupidest statement I've heard all year. People sell drugs to make money. That's it. They don't have some fetish for drugs and nothing else. They would sell horse-manure if it was more lucrative. They would sell guns, DVDs, cigarettes, whatever if they could make a buck on it. By your inane logic a guy who has a conviction for selling cheap smuggled booze illegally shouldn't be allowed near a pub or off-license.

    Are you meaning to tell me that some washed-up con with arthritis and lumbago shouldn't be prescribed 2 weak joints every few days because he might hobble down to the street corner and put the Medellin Drug Cartel out of business by peddling his two spliffs for a fiver?

    Get real.


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    #37
    LiNgWiStIkZ
    Registered Users Posts: 582 ✭✭✭LiNgWiStIkZ


    Logical Fallacy wrote: »
    Ah my bad, i completely misinterpreted your post.

    Apologies!:o

    No problem buddy! This is a sensitive issue, so we can all take each other's posts with a grain of salt :)


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    #38
    MagicSean
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,897 ✭✭✭MagicSean


    LiNgWiStIkZ wrote: »
    They'll need to visit their GP and it's up to them whether they want to give it to them or not.

    If this comes into place, I wouldn't see the point in buying from the black market when you can get safer produce legally!

    Are you saying that most cannabis smokers smoke it for its medicinal value? The black market will not suffer very much from regulation.
    ScumLord wrote: »
    Your bringing in bureaucracy into it now and restricting medical care based on a persons past. I don't see why people feel the need to ensure certain people get sustained punishment for things they feel are wrong. The only person who should decide what drugs a person is prescribed is their doctor.

    Its already done with methadone. If a person doesn't stick to the prescription properly they are cut off. So their past actions do count towards what they will be given by a doctor.


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    #39
    Wompa1
    Registered Users Posts: 8,170 ✭✭✭Wompa1


    chops1990 wrote: »
    I don't think anyone made out it cures cancer, aids or arthiritus, simply that it alleviates the symptoms people suffer from these illnesses

    But they did in the OPs link:
    Campaigners say that cannabis can be used to cure or to treat many ailments including cancer, HIV-AIDS, multiple schlerosis, and arthritis


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    #40
    LiNgWiStIkZ
    Registered Users Posts: 582 ✭✭✭LiNgWiStIkZ


    k_mac wrote: »
    Are you saying that most cannabis smokers smoke it for its medicinal value? The black market will not suffer very much from regulation.

    No, I mean in the medicinal sense. No longer will a sick person need to roam the streets to find their medicine :)


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    #41
    ScumLord
    Registered Users Posts: 28,789 ✭✭✭✭ScumLord


    Jakkass wrote: »
    I have doubts that the doctor would prescribe enough for the patient to sell.
    I doubt any doctor would, but then there's the whole bulk buy argument and inflated prices in Ireland due to rules like that.

    Over all if someone uses cannabis they could grow it quite easily but they'd be left with quite a bit of it, in California they sell it onto the cannabis shops which is good for them as it can cover any medical cost they have, although you'd have to wonder about quality of manufacturing it's very grey. It's not a good business model though, no huge profits for medical companies and no back handers for doctors in the medical companies pockets, totally un-Irish.
    k_mac wrote:
    Its already done with methadone. If a person doesn't stick to the prescription properly they are cut off. So their past actions do count towards what they will be given by a doctor.
    Bit of a difference between a pain relieving medication like cannabis and methadone.


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    #42
    chops1990
    Registered Users Posts: 210 ✭✭chops1990


    Wompa1 wrote: »
    But they did in the OPs link:

    oops my bad, missed that bit :o


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    #43
    saywhatyousee
    Registered Users Posts: 1,511 ✭✭✭saywhatyousee


    they should just go the hole hog and make it legal.good way to create jobs tax revenue and increased tourism i think it could be quite a significant earner for the irish economy


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    #44
    chops1990
    Registered Users Posts: 210 ✭✭chops1990


    The most practical thing they could do is just legalise it in shops altogether, medicinally or for recreational purposes, just put an age limit on it. Cannabis in itself is harmless, it's when its smoked with tobacco its harmful.

    Cannabis = Brilliant
    Tobacco = Demon weed


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    #45
    jackiebaron
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,038 ✭✭✭jackiebaron


    Wompa1 wrote: »
    But they did in the OPs link:

    Pedantics, mate, come on. It can cure some conditions and treat some conditions. Th list of maladies that it can "cure or treat" include cancer, AIDS, arthritis, yada yada.

    So it may cure insomnia or anxiety and may simply treat cancer, AIDS, etc.

    That's pretty clear from the sentence.


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    #46
    seensensee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 386 ✭✭seensensee


    There will be no medicinal cannabis available in Ireland until the misuse of drugs act has been amended. Schedule 1 drugs (cannabis) are recognised to have no medical benefit. Of course everybody knows that cannabis is being prescribed as a medicine around the world and so our nonsensical legislation should be changed. No stretch of the imagination to say that big pharma would be lobbying for a change since they have a product to sell.


    Monday July 05 2010
    THE first pain-relieving medicine containing cannabis extract may be licensed here for patients with cancer, multiple sclerosis (MS) and a number of other conditions.
    The drug Sativex is different from other similar pharmaceutically produced medicines because it is derived from botanical material rather than a solely synthetic process.


    But although thousands of patients may benefit from it, the drug cannot be prescribed by doctors because it would breach the Misuse of Drugs Act.
    http://www.independent.ie/national-news/cannabis-drug-may-be-given-to-cancer-sufferers-in-ireland-2246280.html


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    #47
    philologos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,479 ✭✭✭✭philologos


    ScumLord wrote: »
    Over all if someone uses cannabis they could grow it quite easily but they'd be left with quite a bit of it, in California they sell it onto the cannabis shops which is good for them as it can cover any medical cost they have, although you'd have to wonder about quality of manufacturing it's very grey. It's not a good business model though, no huge profits for medical companies and no back handers for doctors in the medical companies pockets, totally un-Irish.

    The legislation isn't about growing cannabis is it? - I thought this would be only about doctors prescribing it?


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    #48
    Stercus Accidit
    Registered Users Posts: 8,758 ✭✭✭Stercus Accidit


    Only cancer causing addictive drugs are truely legal in Ireland.

    Oh, and liver destroying ones.


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    #49
    chops1990
    Registered Users Posts: 210 ✭✭chops1990


    Cigs and drink kill thousands of people worldwide every year. Since Cannabis has come into use there hasn't been a single death recorded related to it's use..... hmmmm what could be the real reason they have it banned worldwide. Maybe coz it makes ya think and question?

    I've heard countless stories of people with dibilitating illnesses whose lives became much easier with the use of cannabis in one form or another, only to later find out they've been prosecuted and punished. Where's the justice there?


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    #50
    philologos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,479 ✭✭✭✭philologos


    I thought this thread was about medicinal cannabis rather than cannabis for recreational use?


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    #51
    chops1990
    Registered Users Posts: 210 ✭✭chops1990


    It is, people are probably just making extra points to help explain their other ones or get their main point across


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    #52
    ScumLord
    Registered Users Posts: 28,789 ✭✭✭✭ScumLord


    Jakkass wrote: »
    The legislation isn't about growing cannabis is it? - I thought this would be only about doctors prescribing it?
    Jakkass wrote: »
    I thought this thread was about medicinal cannabis rather than cannabis for recreational use?
    True enough, I tend to go off on tangents when it comes to the legality of cannabis. :D

    But I will say this, medical cannabis will be a hassle when compared to all out legalisation with regulation and there really is no valid reason why we shouldn't consider all out legalisation.


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    #53
    Kurtosis
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 2,881 Mod ✭✭✭✭Kurtosis


    LiNgWiStIkZ wrote: »
    The act is loosely based on California's laws but a much more regulated process. Fingers crossed guys, this can work!

    Hmmm, I don't really understand why we need something loosely based on California's cannabis dispensaries. We have a system already in place for such eventualities. Once cannabis is moved from Schedule 1 of the Misuse of Drugs Act, a product can be licensed with Irish Medicines Board, prescribed by doctors for licensed conditions (e.g. Sativex for MS patients) and then dispensed in a pharmacy.

    This is how things work for medicines, don't see why this case would be any different.


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    #54
    ScumLord
    Registered Users Posts: 28,789 ✭✭✭✭ScumLord


    penguin88 wrote: »
    This is how things work for medicines, don't see why this case would be any different.
    I think the main difference is cannabis is so easy to grow and is a plant. Most medicines need to be manufactured under strict conditions, things you don't need for producing cannabis. Your also encouraging a growth in the black market to supply the new medical market which will be wide open to black market trade due to the ease in producing medical grade cannabis.


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    #55
    biko
    Registered Users Posts: 81,223 ✭✭✭✭biko


    We should start with proscribed use. The OAPs can then sell some to stoners to improve their pensions.
    Win-win.


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    #56
    Pace2008
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,587 ✭✭✭Pace2008


    chops1990 wrote: »
    Cannabis in itself is harmless, it's when its smoked with tobacco its harmful.
    It's not completely harmless. I hate when people say this; I'm pro-legalisation, but when people supposedly on my side start lying about the drug it just creates a weaker argument that's easier to tear down.


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    #57
    mikom
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,391 ✭✭✭✭mikom


    Pace2008 wrote: »
    It's not completely harmless.

    Yeah, once got a paper cut whilst rolling a J.


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    #58
    Elevator
    Closed Accounts Posts: 844 ✭✭✭Elevator


    mark my words here, the governments around the world are so screwed for money that they can neither afford to keep up the "war on drugs" or deny that they could badly do with the billions of legit monies to be generated very quickly by taking full control of the narcotics industry!!

    what has been illegal for a long time will become legal and we won have to wait long for it either!

    just watched a video there where it pointed out national debts cannot be reversed even if there was massive growth for the next 75 years non stop. it is for this reason alone I can see the worldwide legalisation of narcotics

    yours or my health will have flip all to do with it in the end I'm
    afraid, it's all about the benjamins people $$$$$$$$


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    #59
    Kurtosis
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 2,881 Mod ✭✭✭✭Kurtosis


    ScumLord wrote: »
    I think the main difference is cannabis is so easy to grow and is a plant. Most medicines need to be manufactured under strict conditions, things you don't need for producing cannabis. Your also encouraging a growth in the black market to supply the new medical market which will be wide open to black market trade due to the ease in producing medical grade cannabis.

    There are other medicines that come from plants that are easily grown. The fact is a cannabis-based medicine would still have to meet the same quality, safety and efficacy standards that are required for any other medicine.

    I think the main difference is cannabis a recreational drug and its medicinal use has been greatly due to this.


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    #60
    thebigbiffo
    Registered Users Posts: 2,941 ✭✭✭thebigbiffo


    Pace2008 wrote: »
    It's not completely harmless. I hate when people say this; I'm pro-legalisation, but when people supposedly on my side start lying about the drug it just creates a weaker argument that's easier to tear down.

    what are it's physically bad side effects?


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    #61
    chops1990
    Registered Users Posts: 210 ✭✭chops1990


    Pace2008 wrote: »
    It's not completely harmless. I hate when people say this; I'm pro-legalisation, but when people supposedly on my side start lying about the drug it just creates a weaker argument that's easier to tear down.

    Well the most it'll do to ya is nothing tobacco wouldn't, lung issues and the like. Of course it's unhealthy to inhale smoke, but the use of it should be left up to individuals and not just automatically decided by the few elite and powerful in society (Government) because they've some other agenda.


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